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[APZonerunner]

The Valeyard is definitely still canon, but I think that describes an overtly malicious Doctor rather than one who had no choice. Also, considering Eleven is now Twelve, and The Valeyard is Thirteen...

The question there is if this was thrown in by Moffat as a fanboy nod, or if it's a statement of intent. If all these theories are true, 13 is probably coming up, and soon - if not at Christmas, then during Series 8, halfway through or at the end - so it is a plot line he may well address. He likes dropping these words in that he then goes after years later.

 

[Gregorn]

But he is just an echo right? Is he going to leak out into the real world - you don't tease John Hurt and then just leave him in the time stream, he'll at least be in the November episode and possibly Christmas ep too?

Yeah, when the doctor leaves his timestream 10th and Hurt will probably be pulled out with him.

 

[CorrisD]

It would be cool if the Doctor Mr. Hurt is playing regenerates into this.

Hurt regenerates into Eccleston, at least as far as we know from this last episode.

The Valeyard is definitely still canon, but I think that describes an overtly malicious Doctor rather than one who had no choice. Also, considering Eleven is now Twelve, and The Valeyard is Thirteen...

Indeed, and The Valeyard is supposed to be between the 12th and 13th and not his 13th regeneration iirc.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Indeed, and The Valeyard is supposed to be between the 12th and 13th and not his 13th regeneration.

I'm already sick of .5 Doctors!

 

[Mr Mike]

• 
  There is only one thing I can think of that doesn't add up, which is that the Cybermen in The Next Doctor stole their records of The Doctor's faces, shown on screen, from the Cult of Skaro inside the void - who were involved in the war. The cult were sent away as a backup way before the war's end, though, so their records would very likely pre-date the 8-to-Hurt regeneration, but then they also have 9's face as well... tiny thing, something Moffat probably hasn't considered nor cares about.

• 
  
  Didn't Moffatt quite explicitly say that the Cybermen attack on Victorian England had never happened post-Crack? That would suggest he knew of this all that long ago, and was gently deleting *that* from the show's history, to make his other plan line up. (If he was thinking this far ahead that is)

 

[Rekubot]

Awesome episode, Jenny's death in the beginning really got me. Shame they didn't follow through.

I was hoping we'd get an explanation for Strax still being alive. Next season I guess? (Seems we might learn how the Doctor met Jenny and Madame Vastra judging from Vastra's monologue.)

Was there ever an actual resolution to that in the show?

I'd be interested in knowing this. Did he pull himself up off the ledge or can we now assume Clara saved him off screen at the time?

Also, I missed the Valeyard reference. What was said exactly?

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Nah, there were Time Lords all over and even an entire season set on Gallifrey - the war took place between Old and New Who. It was RTD's method of cleaning up the lore and getting rid of a lot of the stuff that plain out sucked (like the Time Lords.)

Ah wow that's weird I always just assumed that it had a greater meaning in Who fiction, it seems weird to me that the time war was a fairly new idea.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

[CorrisD]

I'm already sick of .5 Doctors!

Ha, indeed, this new one is already messing with numbers and theories, lol

It's possible when The Doctor regenerates after Matt he will either turn into Valeyard or the Valeyard will be created at the same time along with the 13th, or well 12th Doctor, or whatver. *sigh*
Consider how much the Valeyard was mentioned I don't doubt we will get him, to me he seems like he would make a great replacement for The Master, an anti-Doctor.

 

[Stuart444]

Reading up on The Valeyard makes me want to watch "Trial of a Timelord" (No, I've not watched the arc. I've only watched a few of Old Who such as "An Unearthly Child")

 

[FillerB]

I'm already sick of .5 Doctors!

Well if we are going to pedantic we should also count that semi-aborted regeneration stunt Tenth pulled in "Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End". Does it count as a regeneration? Does it count as half a regeneration? Does the total number of all regenerations the Gallifreyan has commonly known as The Doctor even mean a thing since Doctor is a title that can apparently be given or taken away? This and more next time on Doctor Who!

 

[Exterminieren]

ASDFGHJL
ASDFG
ASD

 

[Mr. Sam]

Also, I missed the Valeyard reference. What was said exactly?

The Great Intelligence was listing some of The Doctor's other names, among which were Storm and The Valeyard.

 

[APZonerunner]

Didn't Moffatt quite explicitly say that the Cybermen attack on Victorian England had never happened post-Crack? That would suggest he knew of this all that long ago, and was gently deleting *that* from the show's history, to make his other plan line up. (If he was thinking this far ahead that is)

The logic of how stuff like that works isn't clear, I suppose. Did the knowledge of the event fall through the crack, or the event itself? It's really weird. Even so, this Doctor would have always been there, in the war, and so the Daleks should've had record of him. Then again, the Dalek timeline is weird anyway - how do they know the 10th Doctor is the Doctor in Doomsday, given that the cult are fresh out of the void? You can't really count a future adventure, as none of the future Dalek stories are connected (directly) to the Cult. Unless the Tenth Doctor has an off-screen battle with the Daleks somewhere that takes place before the war and... cross-eyed.

EDIT: Then again, on second thoughts they don't recognize him as the Doctor, they just say he 'identifies as enemy' and Rose says who he is.. so maybe Daleks can just 'see' Time Lords.

Probably a point best left forgotten.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Guys help...

I am watching Eurovision, and still trying to comprehend this episode...

My body cannot take this. I think I am going to explode into pure energy.

 

[Diablos54]

I was hoping we'd get an explanation for Strax still being alive. Next season I guess?

There was a small clip showing how this happened after the events of AGMGTW, I think it came out just before this half season started.

 

[APZonerunner]

Oh, that is one thing - sort of gutted Jenny didn't stay dead. I think she's a lovely character, but I do think a good permanent death would be nice. River aside. That was a very graceful ending for her tonight - she was wonderful again. Her two episodes this series were both pitch perfect. River's goodbye actually ended up being the best goodbye since Rose's (original) one.

 

[mrklaw]

Just went back and took a look at mcgann and eccleston as doctor who. Never noticed that McGann doesn't regenerate at the end of the movie, and you don't see eccleston appear after a regeneration, but it is clear that he is recently regenerated from his comments when looking in the mirror at Rose's house. Makes a neat hole to slot Hurt into.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Uh guys help I feel like I missed something :-/

What is the valeyard? Who is the time lord victorious? What makes Hurt Doctor 8.5 I assumed he was a future doctor?

 

[frankie_baby]

Uh guys help I feel like I missed something :-/

What is the valeyard? Who is the time lord victorious? What makes Hurt Doctor 8.5 I assumed he was a future doctor?

well he cant be a future doctor as 11 knows of him

 

[PowderedToast]

i thought they pulled a nice twist on the title of the episode

'the name of the doctor' wasn't so much about his actual name, rather the importance of the 'doctor' label and its overall significance in the universe

it didn't feel like a cop-out to me, largely because of the wonderfully satisfying ending

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

lol. I could have done without the JOHN HURT ... IS... THE DOCTOR but there we go.

Given that Stephen Moffat has said that this changes everything I wonder if going into his own time stream results in him inadvertently rewriting chunks of it.

For a moment I thought we were looking at the 8th Doctor as he was the one responsible for the destruction of Gallifrey, and thus could be considered to be the one who broke the promise of "The Doctor" name. But John Hurt isn't McGann and Clara said she hadn't seen him before.

Then again...

 

[Mr. Sam]

well he cant be a future doctor as 11 knows of him

Well, technically, the time stream did also include The Doctor's future - maybe he's just got really good predictive skills. I'd like some episodes with just Hurt's 'Doctor' either way.

Perhaps the special will have The Doctor realising, name or not, it was still him that did those supposedly despicable things.

 

[FillerB]

Uh guys help I feel like I missed something :-/

What is the valeyard? Who is the time lord victorious? What makes Hurt Doctor 8.5 I assumed he was a future doctor?

The Valeyard is an "Evil Doctor" who formed somewhere between his 12th and final regeneration(s).
The Time Lord Victorious is the 10th Doctor from "The Waters of Mars" when he went off the deep end.
From the comments made during the episodes it is clear that Hurt caused the genocide of the Time Lords and ended the Time War. This would either make him an elderly 8th Doctor or a regeneration between the 8th and 9th Doctor who is "unworthy" of the title of "Doctor".

 

[Joqu]

The Valeyard is an "Evil Doctor" who formed somewhere between his twelfth and final regeneration(s).
The Time Lord Victorious is the Tenth Doctor from "The Waters of Mars" when he went off the deep end.
From the comments made during the episodes it is clear that Hurt caused the genocide of the Time Lords and ended the Time War. This would either make him an elderly 8th Doctor or an regeneration between the 8th and 9th Doctor that is "unworthy" of the title of "Doctor".

It's a shame they never went anywhere with that. :/

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Oh, that is one thing - sort of gutted Jenny didn't stay dead. I think she's a lovely character, but I do think a good permanent death would be nice. River aside. That was a very graceful ending for her tonight - she was wonderful again. Her two episodes this series were both pitch perfect. River's goodbye actually ended up being the best goodbye since Rose's (original) one.

Yea that goodbye packed a wallop. Well done.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Oh thanks I've never heard if the valeyard before and damn I've forgotten all about the time lord victorious :/
I'll need to look that one up.

 

[APZonerunner]

Clara showing the Doctor which TARDIS to steal somewhat dampens the "I chose you, I left the door unlocked" exchange in The Doctor's Wife, eh Especially since he already had the door of another TARDIS open, with Susan inside!

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I hope Moffat actually follows through on the Beast tease. He was one of my favourite Who villains.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Clara showing the Doctor which TARDIS to steal somewhat dampens the "I chose you, I left the door unlocked" exchange in The Doctor's Wife, eh Especially since he already had the door of another TARDIS open, with Susan inside!

No wonder the TARDIS hates Clara - she doesn't need no wingman.

 

[FillerB]

Oh thanks I've never heard if the valeyard before and damn I've forgotten all about the time lord victorious :/
I'll need to look that one up.

Yeah, that's why the whole Time War happened in the first place. So that people who started with Modern Who didn't have to deal with 40 years of backstory. The Tardis Data Core is a good place to read up on stuff.

 

[APZonerunner]

Oh -- Who was the person who gave the TARDIS phone number to Clara in the Bells of Saint John? Was it River? Was it Rose, maybe, and we'll find out in November?

The Moffat danglers continue. That's not a minor thread either, really - he'd never have found her otherwise.

 

[Joqu]

Clara showing the Doctor which TARDIS to steal somewhat dampens the "I chose you, I left the door unlocked" exchange in The Doctor's Wife, eh Especially since he already had the door of another TARDIS open, with Susan inside!

Well perhaps the other TARDIS chose him too, the poor thing.

 

[bengraven]

OH GOD, that's right, it's Saturday and it's the name of the Doctor...

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Clara showing the Doctor which TARDIS to steal somewhat dampens the "I chose you, I left the door unlocked" exchange in The Doctor's Wife, eh Especially since he already had the door of another TARDIS open, with Susan inside!

Wouldn't Clara be fixing history after the GI had somehow influenced the doctor to choose the wrong time capsule though? "The Doctor's Wife" version only happened before the GI started messing around.

 

[APZonerunner]

It's a shame they never went anywhere with that. :/

Sure they did. His overconfidence in becoming that basically killed that incarnation; his hubris led to his death.

Wouldn't Clara be fixing history after the GI had somehow influenced the doctor to choose the wrong time capsule though? "The Doctor's Wife" version only happened before the GI started messing around.

True, yeah. Just thought of that.

 

[CorrisD]

Uh guys help I feel like I missed something :-/

What is the valeyard? Who is the time lord victorious? What makes Hurt Doctor 8.5 I assumed he was a future doctor?

Valeyard is a version of the Doctor from Old Who who was used in an episode where The Doctor was on trial, he comes from somewhere between the 12th and 13th Doctor, whether 12 this is Matt now or not we don't know. But it is The Doctor at the end of his life wanting more, a not very nice version of The Doctor as it were, I wouldn't be surprised if Moffat has some sort of plan for him and this 8.5 is some precursor.

Time Lord Victorius as it were is the 10th going corrupt with power, as he put it he was the Last Time Lord, the Winner, and there was no one around to stop him and he tried to change a fixed point in time.

Hurt is a previous version of The Doctor that seemingly The Doctor doesn't consider "The Doctor", he from what was said is the one who ends the Time War, he didn't go round saving peoples lives or worlds, no adventuring, I could be wrong but it seemed to be pointed out that he is the cause of all those graves we saw on Trenzalore.

edit;
A little late it seems in answering, lol.

 

[Thomper]

Series 8 now officially confirmed to be commissioned - not a surprise, but still great to hear.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Doctor-Who-A-New-Series-and-More

We’re delighted to confirm a new series of Doctor Who has been commissioned and the show’s lead writer and executive producer, Steven Moffat, has revealed he’s already plotting a brand new run of adventures for the Doctor.

But way before that hits our screens we have a huge amount to look forward to. Your calendars should already have a big red circle around 23 November because that’s when the TARDIS returns in the frankly Earth-shattering adventure that celebrates half a century of Doctor Who. This 3D special stars Matt Smith and Jenna Coleman with David Tennant and John Hurt, seen briefly at the end of The Name of the Doctor. Billie Piper returns alongside Jemma Redgrave, Joanna Page… and the Zygons!

If you can’t wait until then you can see special videos about the special – filming at the Tower of London and in Trafalgar Square. We’ve a new gallery for the 50th plus a news item on the cast.

Later this year the BBC also premieres An Adventure in Space and Time, the brilliant drama written by Mark Gatiss that looks at the genesis of Doctor Who. If this video location report is anything to go by, we’re in for a memorable insight into the show’s origins.

And given that this year’s Christmas Special will be rounding off such a spectacular year we’re sure it will kick off the Doctor’s next half century in style! But that’s not all. Big plans are being put in place that will well and truly celebrate the Doctor’s half-centenary. Make sure you check back for some exciting announcements!

In the meantime, this site will be updating regularly, bringing you the latest news, videos and much more. No-one should ever have to go a day without watching Doctor Who and you don’t need to! Check out the clips section where you’ll find a wealth of great moments from the show’s first 50 years. And if you fancy finding out more about the earliest Doctors, now’s your chance with A Beginner’s Guide to the Doctors.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

What if Smith's regeneration is a split regeneration, and Smith becomes the Valeyard?

 

[CorrisD]

lol. I could have done without the JOHN HURT ... IS... THE DOCTOR but there we go.

Given that Stephen Moffat has said that this changes everything I wonder if going into his own time stream results in him inadvertently rewriting chunks of it.

For a moment I thought we were looking at the 8th Doctor as he was the one responsible for the destruction of Gallifrey, and thus could be considered to be the one who broke the promise of "The Doctor" name. But John Hurt isn't McGann and Clara said she hadn't seen him before.

Then again...

I imagine Clara never came across him in The Doctors time stream because this new Doctor like the Time War itself has been locked away, so she never ran into him because it wasn't possible.

Series 8 now officially confirmed to be commissioned - not a surprise, but still great to hear.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Doctor-Who-A-New-Series-and-More

Interesting, so while there is a dedicated 50th episode they might be doing something special for the Christmas episode too.

What if Smith's regeneration is a split regeneration, and Smith becomes the Valeyard?

Could happen now, it will be interesting to see if that is where Moffat takes it. I said it in an earlier post but the Valeyard would make for a good replacement for The Master.

 

[mrklaw]

I want a big arse exhibition to celebrate the 50th anniversary, and I can use the kids as an excuse to go and see it.

 

[Joqu]

Sure they did. His overconfidence in becoming that basically killed that incarnation; his hubris led to his death.

I might have missed something, did it really?
Either way I was mostly talking about how The End of Time's doctor really didn't act all that different, I was expecting more of a change really.

 

[KPJZKC]

Hold on hold on hold on.

So John Hurt was one of the regenerations, that's okay, big shocking reveal.

But did anything actually happen? Other than Intelligence confirming the Valeyard thing, did anything ACTUALLY happen?

Basically I just mean, 11th got Clara back (and is somehow still saved by her, not going to go there), but the big terrible secret is that he doesn't like one of his incarnations very much?

 

[FillerB]

Hold on hold on hold on.

So John Hurt was one of the regenerations, that's okay, big shocking reveal.

But did anything actually happen? Other than Intelligence confirming the Valeyard thing, did anything ACTUALLY happen?

All the good the Doctor ever did, every planet he saved, yadda yadda was undone by some timey-wimey and then redone by some more timey-wimey. Regular Doctor Who finale. But some very interesting setups for the 50th.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Hold on hold on hold on.

So John Hurt was one of the regenerations, that's okay, big shocking reveal.

But did anything actually happen? Other than Intelligence confirming the Valeyard thing, did anything ACTUALLY happen?

Plot points got resolved.

We are only guessing that John Hurt was The Doctor who ended the Time War that is not fact at this point just a theory.

We know who Clara is and how she was all over the Doctors timeline.

We can theorize that The "Silence will fall" stuff and The Silents themselves are all based around the events of the episode. The Silents wanted the Doctor Dead so he couldn't risk his entire timeline and with it the universe. If he didn't ever live then at least 1 huge event (Davros's Reality Bomb) would have destroyed everything ever.

It was a good episode, The ending was Interesting. River Song was less annoying.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Hold on hold on hold on.

So John Hurt was one of the regenerations, that's okay, big shocking reveal.

But did anything actually happen? Other than Intelligence confirming the Valeyard thing, did anything ACTUALLY happen?

Basically I just mean, 11th got Clara back (and is somehow still saved by her, not going to go there), but the big terrible secret is that he doesn't like one of his incarnations very much?

I think his terrible secret is that he was the one responsible for deaths of billions... which would seem obvious to anyone given that he's the only Time Lord left.

I wonder what that Emperor who destroyed an entire galaxy of trillions to rid the Universe of Cybermen feels about that.

 

[APZonerunner]

I might have missed something, did it really?
Either way I was mostly talking about how The End of Time's doctor really didn't act all that different, I was expecting more of a change really.

I mean, it didn't set in motion the chain of events exactly, but it was that sort of hubris that caused him to go on the run rather than go straight to the Ood when called, which due to weird personal timeline/causal nexus stuff meant that the Master was revived (mostly) uninhibited, which led to his death. By The End of Time he's backed down from it, though, yeah. We do get that lovely scene where he breaks down out of it - "I did some things, they went wrong---"

 

[Dr Zhivago]

So the Silence were the good guys? They tried to stop the Doctor entering his own tomb and thus the GI fucking everything up. They should have turned up at the end to battle the Whispermen.

 

[Keyser Soze]

edit -

Oops, Wrong thread - I should be in Eurovision

 

[Quick Mustard]

I mean, it didn't set in motion the chain of events exactly, but it was that sort of hubris that caused him to go on the run rather than go straight to the Ood when called, which due to weird personal timeline/causal nexus stuff meant that the Master was revived (mostly) uninhibited, which led to his death. By The End of Time he's backed down from it, though, yeah. We do get that lovely scene where he breaks down out of it - "I did some things, they went wrong---"

Man, I choke up at that scene every damn time.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Wait so how does the doctors regenerations work with this then? I thought he had 12 regenerations so 13 doctor but with the valeyard and Hurt we are passed that, no?