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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life

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I love "die, die, die, die all the way into Smith."

Most of the class know the names of all of the actors who have played The Doctor. One girl even came in and told me the names of the unofficial Doctor actors (comic relief). They are nuts for this stuff.

Bonus picture from one of my recent excursions. Taking the kids here next month.

532293_10151068129303321_377981729_n.jpg
 
Not sure why this series is getting labelled a kids show when it contains easily the darkest opener, Silurian genocide, the Doctor murdering a villain and the heavy moral debate of A Town Called Mercy. Doesn't really compare to Moffat's previous series, for me; this is the first one he's really tried for darkness with.
 
The cube episode was absolute shite.
Ugh, I don't even know where to begin without raging at the episode. To start with, having Amy narrate the whole thing was weird as fuck and felt completely out of place as it just reminded me of el rose-narration when she was "killed".

The cube invasion was intruiging at first, and some of the concepts of it were actually alright (stay inert for a long enough period for them to be deemed safe, get maximum spread, analyze human beings, kill them) but attaching them to a random Gallifreyan boogie monster, revealed in the last ten minutes of the episode and pretty much coming out of nowhere, just killed it for me.

It was such a boring episode.
I rate it 2/10.

EDIT: That goddamn cringey finishing line was the cherry on top of this awful excuse for a Dr. Who episode.

Oh, and good luck Earth as a third of your population now have permanent brain damage from having been dead for however long it took the doctor to get from the UNIT base to the ship - and he didn't even save the humans on said ship!
 

isny

napkin dispenser
The cube episode was absolute shite.
Ugh, I don't even know where to begin without raging at the episode. To start with, having Amy narrate the whole thing was weird as fuck and felt completely out of place as it just reminded me of el rose-narration when she was "killed".

The cube invasion was intruiging at first, and some of the concepts of it were actually alright (stay inert for a long enough period for them to be deemed safe, get maximum spread, analyze human beings, kill them) but attaching them to a random Gallifreyan boogie monster, revealed in the last ten minutes of the episode and pretty much coming out of nowhere, just killed it for me.

It was such a boring episode.
I rate it 2/10.

EDIT: That goddamn cringey finishing line was the cherry on top of this awful excuse for a Dr. Who episode.

Oh, and good luck Earth as a third of your population now have permanent brain damage from having been dead for however long it took the doctor to get from the UNIT base to the ship - and he didn't even save the humans on said ship!

I think we're working our way towards a reset towards the end of the season.
If not next week
The Doc letting people die every episode kinda leads things in that direction in my mind.
 
I'm seeing a series of anniversary specials, each directed by a big name who's shown interest.

Peter Jackson
Rian Johnson
Edgar Wright
Nicholas Winding Refn

Come on, Moffat, make it happen.
 
Huh. The first four Doctors (actors) are listed in Borderlands 2's voice acting as casualties of a construction project - Surnames and first initials. Cool little nod.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I kind of liked that episode! Power of Three was very cutesy and a total cheesedick ending, but it was fun.

Of course, knowing that they're going to horrifically fuck up Amy and Rory's life next week sort of ruins the cutesy part. It's Doctor Who's equivalent of the 80s buddy cop flick where the black partner is talking about how he's 5 days from retirement, right before he gets shot 39 times.
 
I kind of liked that episode! Power of Three was very cutesy and a total cheesedick ending, but it was fun.

Of course, knowing that they're going to horrifically fuck up Amy and Rory's life next week sort of ruins the cutesy part. It's Doctor Who's equivalent of the 80s buddy cop flick where the black partner is talking about how he's 5 days from retirement, right before he gets shot 39 times.

At the end, I was close to just screaming at the telly, "No Brian! The fuck are you saying?! Don't let them go, they're going to get fucked up :("
 
I'm not sure if this is what Kuwubara was referring to, but a plan that RTD often writes about in The Writer's Tale is Tennant's sendoff to be a really small-scale affair; he turns up on a small spaceship with a family of aliens in it, and the engine's about to explode, and can only be fixed with a similar set of doors to the radiation chamber in The End of Time. The Doctor takes his place, sacrificing himself for one of the "little people".

Up until the day RTD wrote the scene, he had a random technician in the booth instead of Wilf for the Doctor to save. Personally I think that would have closed the arc better than the Doctor sacrificing himself for one of his best friends, but whatever.

I loved the alien idea, but in the context of The End of Time I actually think it being Wilf is a really nice beat. When coupled with the heartbreaking scene up on the ship (isn't Bernard Cribbins fantastic?) where he pleads with The Doctor not to sacrifice himself and the speech The Doctor then has when he's frustrated and having that moment of selfishness of how much more he could do... that moment wouldn't have had those beats at all without Wilf, or they wouldn't have been as powerful. It also closed the loop on the "coincidence" of The Doctor repeatedly bumping into Wilf with this idea that it was destiny that drew the pair of them back together on three different occasions. While I don't care about that so much (this is a show that is full of coincidence), it's something that RTD was very worried about and tried to justify in scripts often.

The untold story aboard the alien ship for the smaller-scale regeneration story is really one I'll always wonder about, though, it really sounded like a great concept.

I wonder how Matt'll go. I'd like them to step back a bit and have a smaller-scale regeneration story for him, as if Moffat tries to top the Tennant one it'll just get ridiculous. I'd love it if the foreshadowed "Fall of the Eleventh" is an actual fall, like the fourth Doctor fell. Just because I like things like that.
 

Quick

Banned
Karen Gillan's going to be on Conan tomorrow.

Goddamn.

EDIT: Probably going to show a clip from Saturday's episode.
 
I loved the alien idea, but in the context of The End of Time I actually think it being Wilf is a really nice beat. When coupled with the heartbreaking scene up on the ship (isn't Bernard Cribbins fantastic?) where he pleads with The Doctor not to sacrifice himself and the speech The Doctor then has when he's frustrated and having that moment of selfishness of how much more he could do... that moment wouldn't have had those beats at all without Wilf, or they wouldn't have been as powerful. It also closed the loop on the "coincidence" of The Doctor repeatedly bumping into Wilf with this idea that it was destiny that drew the pair of them back together on three different occasions. While I don't care about that so much (this is a show that is full of coincidence), it's something that RTD was very worried about and tried to justify in scripts often.

The untold story aboard the alien ship for the smaller-scale regeneration story is really one I'll always wonder about, though, it really sounded like a great concept.

Yeah, in the context of The End of Time, having it be Wilf that the Doctor saves makes perfect sense, and I think that scene is so much more gut wrenching with him than if it was just a random engineer in there (although I'm sure that could have worked out well, too). It also made the Doctor's initial reaction stand out so much more than if it was someone he didn't really know.

I am really interested in the alien family story. I think it would have tied in really well with how the Doctor fell at the end of The Waters of Mars. The Doctor redeeming himself by saving the little people would have really been the perfect payoff, and I think a small scale story would have been a brave way to end 10's era. I understand why Julie Gardner and Jane Tranter wanted the big spectacle (and I do like much of The End of Time), but I would have loved to see that small, personal conclusion to everything.
 
Yeah, in the context of The End of Time, having it be Wilf that the Doctor saves makes perfect sense, and I think that scene is so much more gut wrenching with him than if it was just a random engineer in there (although I'm sure that could have worked out well, too). It also made the Doctor's initial reaction stand out so much more than if it was someone he didn't really know.

I am really interested in the alien family story. I think it would have tied in really well with how the Doctor fell at the end of The Waters of Mars. The Doctor redeeming himself by saving the little people would have really been the perfect payoff, and I think a small scale story would have been a brave way to end 10's era. I understand why Julie Gardner and Jane Tranter wanted the big spectacle (and I do like much of The End of Time), but I would have loved to see that small, personal conclusion to everything.

A lot of the family/kid audiences love it. There's a reason Voyage of the Damned is the most-viewed episode of New Who ever, for instance... and in terms of the AI (Audience Appreciation) figures The Stolen Earth/Journey's End are the highest-rated, whereas things like Blink and Midnight track a few points lower. The general public eat up that shit. Highest-rated episode of the Moffat era is The Big Bang for that reason, too, second highest rated The Impossible Astronaut. These figures are dumb, really, but the BBC do use them to track popularity and things.

It's worth noting even RTD's concept for that story involved spectacle - the idea was this was one, weaponless ship in the middle of a massive, Star Wars Episode II/III level war zone, so you'd see all that but the Doctor wouldn't be a part of it. They wanted him to be able to do the heroic stuff as well as the small sacrifice. In the end we got both. It's not too bad.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Man it's weird you guys talking about Tennant's departure being heartwrenching or whatever. Everything about that entire sequence of events rubbed me the wrong way, from the ridiculous chinese-fingertrap-plot-device to the "aren't I just wonderful" speech to the jumping from the spaceship to the masterclones to the 20 minute farewell tour to the "I don't want to go" smack in the face.

Ugh.
 

Quick

Banned
I thought it was fine, until "I don't want to go." That was just too much. I just wanted to say, "where would you be going?!"
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Man it's weird you guys talking about Tennant's departure being heartwrenching or whatever. Everything about that entire sequence of events rubbed me the wrong way, from the ridiculous chinese-fingertrap-plot-device to the "aren't I just wonderful" speech to the jumping from the spaceship to the masterclones to the 20 minute farewell tour to the "I don't want to go" smack in the face.

Ugh.

You're not alone. I hated Tennant's exit, especially after Eccleston's amazing exit.

They just need to start with the new Doctor, have Smith die in some goofy accident off-screen between seasons.
 

Quick

Banned
Eccleston's was simple and cheerful. Just a "no big deal" regeneration. Tennant's was drawn out more than it should have, then over-dramatized. Smith's introduction was awesome, though.
 
Man it's weird you guys talking about Tennant's departure being heartwrenching or whatever. Everything about that entire sequence of events rubbed me the wrong way, from the ridiculous chinese-fingertrap-plot-device to the "aren't I just wonderful" speech to the jumping from the spaceship to the masterclones to the 20 minute farewell tour to the "I don't want to go" smack in the face.

Ugh.

Can I hug you?

At the end of it I was like "Ugh, just fucking die. Grow a pair and stop crying about it."

Eccelston's exit was so damn fantastic. Why did Tennant have to go out like a whiny lil shit?

Calling it now: When Smith goes he will say, "I am going to regenerate now. Regenerating is cool." *adjusts bow tie before morphing into Twelve*
First thing Twelve does: *feels bow tie* "What the hell am I wearing?!"
 

Quick

Banned
Can I hug you?

At the end of it I was like "Ugh, just fucking die. Grow a pair and stop crying about it."

Eccelston's exit was so damn fantastic. Why did Tennant have to go out like a whiny lil shit?

Calling it now: When Smith goes he will say, "I am going to regenerate now. Regenerating is cool." *adjusts bow tie before morphing into Twelve*
First thing Twelve does: *feels bow tie* "What the hell am I wearing?!"

And when he regenerates into Rupert Grint, he can finally rejoice and say, "I'm a ginger!"
 
Man it's weird you guys talking about Tennant's departure being heartwrenching or whatever. Everything about that entire sequence of events rubbed me the wrong way, from the ridiculous chinese-fingertrap-plot-device to the "aren't I just wonderful" speech to the jumping from the spaceship to the masterclones to the 20 minute farewell tour to the "I don't want to go" smack in the face.

Ugh.

I'm talking very specifically about the events of the regeneration itself, really - the scene with Wilf, the manner of the sacrifice etcetera. The End of Time is, like a lot of RTD stories, several great scenes wrapped up in a set of bad ideas. The Master stuff made for a good cliffhanger, but things like that Star Wars shooting sequence etc etc were all unnecessary. The companion visits were unnecessary. I did like the Donna one, and the Rose was ok due to the simplicity of it and how it made that entire 'era' circular, but they could've cut the rest and I wouldn't have been bothered.

I mean, the thing about the whole Tennant regeneration is it was tainted by being also a farewell to an entire era and entire suite of characters, I suppose. The Eccleston regeneration was clean because there was nothing they had to do; Rose was with him, Jack was at that point already being placed into a new show, so it was a very clean break.

If you remove that window dressing, I do really like the scenes between him and Wilf, his elation when he thinks he's saved, his little breakdown when he realizes he still has to go... these are states you don't tend to see The Doctor in, and the episodes where that happens are some of my favourites.

I thought it was fine, until "I don't want to go." That was just too much. I just wanted to say, "where would you be going?!"

This line is weird, but is fine, really. The Third Doctor made similar allusions to regeneration feeling like death for aspects of his personality, so it isn't an entirely new idea.

But, again, it just felt like a desperate need to tug heart strings. I dunno. I sat there on new years day and watched my girlfriend at the time - only a casual Who watcher - cry at it, so it must've done something right. I wasn't that bothered, really.

I'm sure that line will be contested forever and ever. It fit Tennant's Doctor, though - he was an over-emotional, very human iteration of the character. Too much so - to his detriment both in a story sense and as a character all too often. It's no surprise he viewed regeneration as dramatically as he did. The line literally sums up the best and worst of his Doctor in one go. I imagine Matt's will be more like Tom Baker's, and he'll just be like "Well, this is it. Geronimo" and be done. Already seen that in The Big Bang.

Another reason the Tennant regeneration went OTT was because the RTD-era producers, Julie Gardner in particular, was very good at squeezing more money out of the BBC and even more time in the schedule. That episode was 75 minutes long! The Moffat-era producers have been less savvy at this stuff (or the BBC have got tighter) - they tried to get extra time for The Big Bang and failed, for instance - so we'll probably not get that level of outlandishness in one episode for a long time. They've not managed to get one extended run-time out of the BBC in 3 series' - the Eleventh Hour and Christmas Specials were commissioned for an hour - whereas they constantly got last-minute, late-game extensions and things.
 

Dmax3901

Member
I always thought Tennant's exist was quite powerful. Like someone putting on a brave face as they lie dying, but at that last second the fear takes over.
 
You're not alone. I hated Tennant's exit, especially after Eccleston's amazing exit.

They just need to start with the new Doctor, have Smith die in some goofy accident off-screen between seasons.
Maybe they could give him the old Colin Baker to Sylvester McCoy wig regeneration :p

That said the whole regeneration thing has always been a big deal in Doctor Who and its what most people tune in for, there is no one BBC wouldn't want to make a big deal out of it all.

Exactly. We need a ginger Doctor just for him to be ecstatic about it. And to have him greet everyone with "Hello. I'm The Doctor. I'm a ginger as you can see."
That would be the most amazing intro for the new Doctor to have
 

Emitan

Member
"A Good Man Goes to War" (S6E07) has a human/alien lesbian couple that fight with katanas. I feel like this show is being written just for me. #gaymafia
 
If you remove that window dressing, I do really like the scenes between him and Wilf, his elation when he thinks he's saved, his little breakdown when he realizes he still has to go... these are states you don't tend to see The Doctor in, and the episodes where that happens are some of my favourites.

These are definitely the best parts of the episodes. The emotional states that the Doctor goes through towards the end are really gut wrenching. The moment when he realizes that his reckoning still hasn't happened yet, and what the choice is that he has to make.

This line is weird, but is fine, really. The Third Doctor made similar allusions to regeneration feeling like death for aspects of his personality, so it isn't an entirely new idea.

There are definite shades of Pertwee there, and I think it makes sense. Ten is definitely more similar to Three than to any of the other Doctors. I felt like that moment of not wanting to let go (set up throughout, especially in his first conversation with Wilf in the cafe) made perfect sense for the character. Because that's what his Doctor was. He was cocky, and he always thought he knew best, and he was filled with a zest for life. He didn't want to stop being him.

I always thought Tennant's exist was quite powerful. Like someone putting on a brave face as they lie dying, but at that last second the fear takes over.

Indeed. He has his whole (unnecessary) trip down memory lane, and he sees everyone happy and living their lives, and he tries to put everything in order, but then once he does all that, he doesn't have anything more to do except to face it head on. He'll never be the same man again.
 

maharg

idspispopd
I'm talking very specifically about the events of the regeneration itself, really - the scene with Wilf, the manner of the sacrifice etcetera. The End of Time is, like a lot of RTD stories, several great scenes wrapped up in a set of bad ideas. The Master stuff made for a good cliffhanger, but things like that Star Wars shooting sequence etc etc were all unnecessary. The companion visits were unnecessary. I did like the Donna one, and the Rose was ok due to the simplicity of it and how it made that entire 'era' circular, but they could've cut the rest and I wouldn't have been bothered.

I mean, the thing about the whole Tennant regeneration is it was tainted by being also a farewell to an entire era and entire suite of characters, I suppose. The Eccleston regeneration was clean because there was nothing they had to do; Rose was with him, Jack was at that point already being placed into a new show, so it was a very clean break.

If you remove that window dressing, I do really like the scenes between him and Wilf, his elation when he thinks he's saved, his little breakdown when he realizes he still has to go... these are states you don't tend to see The Doctor in, and the episodes where that happens are some of my favourites.



This line is weird, but is fine, really. The Third Doctor made similar allusions to regeneration feeling like death for aspects of his personality, so it isn't an entirely new idea.

But, again, it just felt like a desperate need to tug heart strings. I dunno. I sat there on new years day and watched my girlfriend at the time - only a casual Who watcher - cry at it, so it must've done something right. I wasn't that bothered, really.

I'm sure that line will be contested forever and ever. It fit Tennant's Doctor, though - he was an over-emotional, very human iteration of the character. Too much so - to his detriment both in a story sense and as a character all too often. It's no surprise he viewed regeneration as dramatically as he did. The line literally sums up the best and worst of his Doctor in one go. I imagine Matt's will be more like Tom Baker's, and he'll just be like "Well, this is it. Geronimo" and be done. Already seen that in The Big Bang.

Another reason the Tennant regeneration went OTT was because the RTD-era producers, Julie Gardner in particular, was very good at squeezing more money out of the BBC and even more time in the schedule. That episode was 75 minutes long! The Moffat-era producers have been less savvy at this stuff (or the BBC have got tighter) - they tried to get extra time for The Big Bang and failed, for instance - so we'll probably not get that level of outlandishness in one episode for a long time. They've not managed to get one extended run-time out of the BBC in 3 series' - the Eleventh Hour and Christmas Specials were commissioned for an hour - whereas they constantly got last-minute, late-game extensions and things.

The thing, to me, is that none of it ever felt like a farewell to David Tennant's Doctor, and his "aren't I great" speech and "I don't want to go" felt a lot like they were actually RTD speaking through him. Especially since RTD had so many "aren't I great" speeches in Confidential (could have been a drinking game, really). It all just felt very meta in a self-congratulatory way.

So I think it's not so much that it was tainted by being the end of a whole bunch of characters but that it was tainted by also being the end of RTD's tenure.

Also, I know it's a common meme to think that the producers in RTD's era were some kind of snake charmers that knew how to push the buttons at the BBC, but I've never really bought that. I don't buy that the BBC was so stingy or that they were so incredible. It strikes me as the least likely explanation. I'd like to advance an alternate theory for a lot of the production weirdness over the last few years: Breaking into the US market.

Stuff like running episodes long, running them over the summer, starting them on holidays, etc. are things that just don't happen on US TV shows. Since Moffat took over production values have skyrocketed, it looks more like a US TV show, and the seasons are slowly but surely aligning more closely to a US season schedule (fall->winter first half, winter->spring second half) except with fewer episodes.
 
Also, I know it's a common meme to think that the producers in RTD's era were some kind of snake charmers that knew how to push the buttons at the BBC, but I've never really bought that. I don't buy that the BBC was so stingy or that they were so incredible. It strikes me as the least likely explanation. I'd like to advance an alternate theory for a lot of the production weirdness over the last few years: Breaking into the US market.

Stuff like running episodes long, running them over the summer, starting them on holidays, etc. are things that just don't happen on US TV shows. Since Moffat took over production values have skyrocketed, it looks more like a US TV show, and the seasons are slowly but surely aligning more closely to a US season schedule (fall->winter first half, winter->spring second half) except with fewer episodes.

All fair comments, really.

As far as the Producers/US market stuff goes - making decisions based on foreign markets is actually against the BBC remit, being taxpayer funded. The remit is pretty fucking stringent.

They can change things like the look of the show, and cinematic was a clear decision by Moffat and his team, but they're not allowed to adjust how the show and series' are scheduled/planned out and that kind of stuff. They have to be very careful about how they go about this stuff due to the archaic-ass way the BBC is structured. RTD made the mistake of saying in an interview that they chose the 13 episode structure to make international sales easier and there was an investigation! That is how fucked it is. Some of the heat was taken off Who for this during Series 2/3, as the Canadians part-funded those series. By Series 4, people stopped caring, I think.

I'm willing to bet the scheduling changes this year are nothing to do with the US/foreign market and everything to do with the fact that Matt/Moffat are both in pretty high demand and doing other things. Moffat in particular is a golden goose right now, and they want to make sure they give him space for Sherlock, Who, and something new he's talked about working on a script for. When 2013 is over, we'll have had less episodes as we probably won't have gotten two full series', but one and a half or so.

It's hard to predict, but I'd anticipate a return to the 13 episodes across a few months setup in 2014 once the rest of this series and the anniversary stuff blows over.

As far as Producers go, Caroline Skinner (Series 6/7) is I think as good as Julie was, but Piers was no good, I think. He just felt like a very atypical TV man, where Julie and Caroline seemed to have a real love for the show.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Just because they can't admit it doesn't mean that they aren't reaping the benefits of it. What you've advanced is just an argument for why they wouldn't say so in public, not for why it's not the case. That they're all things that can be done to improve the appeal of the show to US audiences doesn't mean they can't also have other more domestic justifications as well.
 

Locke_211

Member
The Moffat-era producers have been less savvy at this stuff (or the BBC have got tighter) - they tried to get extra time for The Big Bang and failed, for instance - so we'll probably not get that level of outlandishness in one episode for a long time. They've not managed to get one extended run-time out of the BBC in 3 series' - the Eleventh Hour and Christmas Specials were commissioned for an hour - whereas they constantly got last-minute, late-game extensions and things.

Wonder what Asylum of the Daleks was commissioned for. That ran to 50 minutes.
 

Quick

Banned
And speaking of Moffat writing stuff, I remember reading a tweet or two from him some time ago about him writing a script or something. Didn't specify if it was for Doctor Who, Sherlock, or a new project.
 
And speaking of Moffat writing stuff, I remember reading a tweet or two from him some time ago about him writing a script or something. Didn't specify if it was for Doctor Who, Sherlock, or a new project.

He said he's working on something new as well at a panel recently, which is exciting. Loved Jekyll (I see this show get a lot of hate, and I don't really get why - thought it was fantastic), love Sherlock, intrigued to see what's next.

Most excited of all just to see how different Who gets with a new companion. I've been waiting for a non-modern-day-earth companion since the new series began, and I hope this is it!
 
Moffat was developing a sitcom based around his and his wife's early relationship before he got the Who gig, IIRC.

Might be a backburner project, like RTD's More Gay Men was.
 
I can't really remember the specifics, to be honest. I just remember it was in the first interview Moffat gave to Doctor Who Magazine that Moffat had to shelve a sitcom he'd been planning with his wife based around their relationship for years when he took the job.
 
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