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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Until a future writer wants to write a story in Manhattan, sure!
I am somewhat intrigued by how that relates to 'the slow path'... Park in 1900, and wait.
I avatar'd it for whoever wants it.Just thought I'd give a heads up, this is the latest shirt deal on Teefury
I felt no emotion whatsoever at the end of the last episode. I just shrugged my shoulders and said "oh well". I really thought I'd care more but I didn't. Can't wait for Christmas.
I know that feel, bro.
It was sad, not necessarily tear-jerking on my part, but it was just depressing and bittersweet.
I cry during everything also but I knew she was leaving and the way it happened in the episode didn't make me care at all.
Which seems to be contradicted by "Blink", where the Doctor and Martha presumably escaped from where the Angels sent them via the TARDIS. So it seems like knowing what happened to Amy/Rory "time locked" everything and prevented the Doctor from picking them up again. But that's contradicted by Amy's name appearing on the tombstone ("Back to the Future" style) which implies events weren't all that "time locked" after all since events in the present could still change the past.
It all feels a bit sloppy, really.
Exterminieren
Banned
The question is: when did you start crying? The jump? Old dead Rory?
Huh, I just heard this concept that just sounds odd to me. "Personal canon"
Since Doctor Who doesn't have a true canon, there are fans that create their own using bits and pieces from all the episodes, books, audio dramas, comics, and more.
I don't know, that sounds a bit silly if you ask me.
Since Doctor Who doesn't have a true canon, there are fans that create their own using bits and pieces from all the episodes, books, audio dramas, comics, and more.
I don't know, that sounds a bit silly if you ask me.
I started tearing up while he was reading the afterword, I knew something like that was coming and when it was paired with the scene from The Eleventh Hour it was just too much for me.
Rory being sent back again = can't be saved or there would be another paradox and New York couldn't handle it.
Amy choosing to go back = can't be saved because the choice caused a fixed point in time.
I'm still not sure about how inaccessible the entire place/period actually is though.
The way I understood it, Amy choosing to go back is what caused time to be fixed, due to it being a choice + Amy is special + paradox energy messing up Manhattan. The Doctor says she's "creating fixed time", so apparently if she chose to stay the time lock wouldn't be set in place. Or something.
Rory being sent back again = can't be saved or there would be another paradox and New York couldn't handle it.
Amy choosing to go back = can't be saved because the choice caused a fixed point in time.
I'm still not sure about how inaccessible the entire place/period actually is though.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Having finally seen the episode I must say that this is the best companion ending I've so far witnessed in Doctor Who.
It was tense, it was emotional, and it neatly concluded the story of the Ponds.
Couple of observations and questions:
1. Why couldn't the Doc and Amy just travel back to 1937, December, and take the slow road into 1938?
2. Why would Rory have to be trapped in that room just because they saw him die in it? They could easily flee, travel around, and return to that room when he was just about to die without it causing any paradox whatsoever.
3. Why could not the Doctor visit the Ponds after having seen their tomb stone? Just as the Doctor survived his "death" by being inside a robot, the Ponds could survive their death by the Doctor just going back in time and picking them up in 1939, travel to whenever the book was published and publish it, drop by prior to the episode and erect their tombstone, travel with the ponds happily forever!
4. Even if the Ponds had to die in the past, and lie their buried until 2012, the doctor could still go visit them anytime after 1938.
5. Even if the paradox/angels prevent the doctor from going to New York specifically at a particular time, why couldn't he land in another city and take the train to New York?
6. At least this explains the picture of Amy holding River in the Silence nursery.
7. Now the remaining question from the Amy/Rory/Doctor to answer is who the hell said "Silence shall fall".
It was tense, it was emotional, and it neatly concluded the story of the Ponds.
Couple of observations and questions:
1. Why couldn't the Doc and Amy just travel back to 1937, December, and take the slow road into 1938?
2. Why would Rory have to be trapped in that room just because they saw him die in it? They could easily flee, travel around, and return to that room when he was just about to die without it causing any paradox whatsoever.
3. Why could not the Doctor visit the Ponds after having seen their tomb stone? Just as the Doctor survived his "death" by being inside a robot, the Ponds could survive their death by the Doctor just going back in time and picking them up in 1939, travel to whenever the book was published and publish it, drop by prior to the episode and erect their tombstone, travel with the ponds happily forever!
4. Even if the Ponds had to die in the past, and lie their buried until 2012, the doctor could still go visit them anytime after 1938.
5. Even if the paradox/angels prevent the doctor from going to New York specifically at a particular time, why couldn't he land in another city and take the train to New York?
6. At least this explains the picture of Amy holding River in the Silence nursery.
7. Now the remaining question from the Amy/Rory/Doctor to answer is who the hell said "Silence shall fall".
The rest is just wibbly wobbly finality and you're either ok with that or not, but I feel like there's still a huge amount of confusion over the fixed point that was the Doctor's death. He didn't avoid his death at all and he was never at risk of dying. It was always and would always be the tesselactor that 'died' on that beach. The doctor fulfilled the fixed point and it was only River failing to live up to her end that broke time.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
That's the thing though.
You (both the doctor and the viewer) never saw the Ponds "die".
While I could accept that the doctor's (or someone that acts and looks identical to the doctor, e.g the tesselactor) death is a fixed point, none of what makes the doctor's death a fixed point seem to apply to this situation.
ChopstickNinja
Neo Member
I went back and watched the first half of series 7 and noticed something interesting.
In the two episodes with Rory's Dad, Brian, he doesn't interact with any humans other then Rory and Amy.
In Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, Rory's dad only speaks to Rory, Amy, The Doctor and with the Aliens. He also pilots the ship. Queen Nerftiti and Riddell never interact with Brian.
In The Power of 3, he in the TARDIS when UNIT comes in the house, no one at the BBQ actually interacts with him other then when he confronts the Doctor. At the hospital, Rory is the only person to directly acknowledge him other then the aliens that kidnap him.
Maybe there is some twist ala Sixth Sense or Tyler Durden coming up? Seeing as how so far only Amy, Rory and non-humans have been interacting with Brian. I would love to see the Brian thread wrapped up.
In the two episodes with Rory's Dad, Brian, he doesn't interact with any humans other then Rory and Amy.
In Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, Rory's dad only speaks to Rory, Amy, The Doctor and with the Aliens. He also pilots the ship. Queen Nerftiti and Riddell never interact with Brian.
In The Power of 3, he in the TARDIS when UNIT comes in the house, no one at the BBQ actually interacts with him other then when he confronts the Doctor. At the hospital, Rory is the only person to directly acknowledge him other then the aliens that kidnap him.
Maybe there is some twist ala Sixth Sense or Tyler Durden coming up? Seeing as how so far only Amy, Rory and non-humans have been interacting with Brian. I would love to see the Brian thread wrapped up.
Exterminieren
Banned
I don't want to see Brian again.
An episode where the Doctor has to tell him about Amy and Rory would break me.
An episode where the Doctor has to tell him about Amy and Rory would break me.
I'm always crying. Basically from when Rory stood on the edge of the roof until the end... >_>
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Replace "Master" with "Omega" and you're good to go!
It was consistently average.
APZonerunner
Member
I love The Beast Below. The rhyme in the pre-credits sequence is great. So memorable.
Anyway, regarding companions leaving... the thing that bums me out most, I think, about this sense of 'finality' the show seems desperate to have with companions now is that the show won't now be able to draw Donna, Amy or Rose in 20 years' time if they ever want to do a "School Reunion" style episode. That's a bummer. The companions should be the lasting legacy of each era in-universe, really. RTD's era left Martha and Jack, I suppose, both in Brigadier-type roles, but ironically the two most-fleshed out (and loved) companions both got very final binnings.
I'd like for sometimes people to just leave. It's a shame, as Amy and Rory seemed to be going that way - "we need to choose," - and just never got to. I would've liked them to just walk away because they wanted to - not everything has to be heartbreaking. It would've left the door open for them at some point in the future, too, but clearly Moffat had other designs and that is that, I guess.
ScreenSplitter
Member
I was crying from the jump. Fucking Karen Gillan's acting was just top notch that whole sequence. The final notch in the coffin
() was the music. Was very reminiscent of A Melody of River from Season 6, which made it all the more poignant. Amy clinging on to Rory as they fell. Just so good. Also, Matt Smith's little "No!" and scream of frustration after he sees Amy's name on the tombstone really get me.As for why he can't go back and visit, it probably has to do with him seeing the ending chapter "Amy's Final Farewell". What you read becomes the future locked in. If the book says it was the last time they saw him, it's the last time they saw him. I'm just going with the flimsy logic of the episode, but either way they're gone. It's sad, but we always have Series 5-7.5. Bring on Oswin.
That said, it's funny how whilst the possibility of them coming back within the mythology is greater than that of Rose, the likelihood of Moffatt/Gillan sticking to their guns is much larger than RTD going back on what was a great closer.
JzeroT1437
Member
It doesn't make sense, really. Logically, the timeline the Doctor is in is inherently separate from the one Rory and Amy will now live out; their existence in 40 years of history they previously didn't inhabit should, by its nature, cause a separate timeline the Doctor cannot access.
I was crying from the jump. Fucking Karen Gillan's acting was just top notch that whole sequence. The final notch in the coffin
As for why he can't go back and visit, it probably has to do with him seeing the ending chapter "Amy's Final Farewell". What you read becomes the future locked in. If the book says it was the last time they saw him, it's the last time they saw him. I'm just going with the flimsy logic of the episode, but either way they're gone. It's sad, but we always have Series 5-7.5. Bring on Oswin.
That said, it's funny how whilst the possibility of them coming back within the mythology is greater than that of Rose, the likelihood of Moffatt/Gillan sticking to their guns is much larger than RTD going back on what was a great closer.
Not to be a crazy nitpick, but I'm pretty sure it says "Last" Farewell, and that's a lot looser of a word in English. It could just as easily mean the last time she said farewell (as in previous) as the final farewell.
Which is exactly why I want it.
BrokenFiction
Member
They need to have Wilf come in with the Doctor and they can share a "I know that feel bro" moment.
I thought the ending could have easily been a two-parter. The whole "Angels have this apartment complex in NYC that they use to feed off victims" plot seemed underdeveloped. There were implications that the Angels had basically taken over New York City. That's huge! You could do a whole episode just based around that premise. But then they had to shoehorn in Amy and Rory's big exit at the end of the episode and it just all seemed rushed. Even the big shocker of the Statue of Liberty being a giant angel was just tacked on and had no bearing on the episode whatsoever outside of shock value. I mean, how could it have been moving? Seems like there would always be someone looking at the Statue of Liberty. They could at least explain that away with some dialogue.
I think more than anything, I'm just pissed that the Angels, the best who villains in my book, got sort of sidelined by the Amy and Rory stuff in this ep. I would have done a whole two parter about freeing NYC from the Angels and get a longer more well thought out noble self sacrifice for Amy and Rory instead of rushing everything in a single episode.
I think more than anything, I'm just pissed that the Angels, the best who villains in my book, got sort of sidelined by the Amy and Rory stuff in this ep. I would have done a whole two parter about freeing NYC from the Angels and get a longer more well thought out noble self sacrifice for Amy and Rory instead of rushing everything in a single episode.
I'm torn. I'd have prefered Moffat followed through more on the 'we want to live our lives' aspect they had basically trumped up in the prior episodes, and they just tell the Doctor they can't do it anymore, drop by for tea sometime, and see how 11 deals with that kind of separation.
Of course, if only Rory died, the ending and their departure would have carried a lot more emotional weight than what we got, though it would have left Amy around to pick up the pieces.
Wilf and Brian could swap stories.
We've already had enough Bitter Amy moments, though. The episode with Old Amy was that full blast.
King of the Potato People
Member
It begins.
Strange that seeing Tennant actually makes me nostalgic, given the fact I watched most of the RTD run after Moffat's. Hyped!
He went crazy and locked a dude in a trunk for a year while stealing bits of his hair
He IS 41. I mean, that's pretty good looking for 41 in my opinion.
Exterminieren
Banned
Becoming a husband and dad in quick succession might do that.
Ah true. Completely forgot about that. The beard also doesn't really help that much.
King of the Potato People
Member
I thought the first Doctor died of old age.
JonathanEx
Member
I like to think the Doctor now just guesses and makes it up because he genuinely doesn't know.
Future Foundation
Member
Damn right. Something weird is really going on there.
lunarworks
Member
Almost as if it's somehow a plot device from... Doctor Who.
The Elite
BOSS
Never let him see you age.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
It's very true. I wonder how much of that was makeup-because Matt Smith looks about 10 years younger in season 5.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Still wish they went with my idea. Kill Amy, and have Rory maraud across the universe wiping out whatever alien race killed her. Wait a while and then the Doctor will have to confront The Centurion.
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