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[Haines]

It doesn't have to be called 4.

Hell....super Mario returns...made by retro....lol

 

[The Xtortionist]

Whoa, let's not diminish the level design of Returns when celebrating Tropical Freeze. I probably prefer Tropical Freeze, as well, but the level design in Returns was also excellent. More challenging on the whole, as well.

But yeah, definitely blows the entire NSMB series out of the water from a sheer entertainment and production standpoint.

I think what's really impressive about TF's level design is that it remains consistent despite levels being longer on average than Returns'. Despite simply needing more design work to fill more space, the quality of the design is never spread thin just because there's more work to be done. If that makes sense.

But yeah, Returns' level design is still god, too. If only the presentation matched it.

 

[vazel]

Did you know Mario's "YIPEEE" from Mario 64 is in Grassland Groove? Listen closely, right at the beginning and then several times through the song.

Took me a couple times but I can hear it now. That's neat.

 

[Neiteio]

I think what's really impressive about TF's level design is that it remains consistent despite levels being longer on average than Returns'. Despite simply needing more design work to fill more space, the quality of the design is never spread thin just because there's more work to be done. If that makes sense.

But yeah, Returns' level design is still god, too. If only the presentation matched it.

While it's true the levels in TF are longer than Returns, there are also fewer levels than Returns.

Both games are incredible, though. Definitely my favorite 2D platformers, alongside DKC2.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Re: Long boss battles, you can usually speed up the first two phases in every fight. Use bombs instead of bouncing. Keep one enemy projectile to use, then use it after the boss has recovered from their stun. Take Cranky to bounce on the helmeted-head instead of the other two.

Go watch the top-ranked speedrun videos for a boss level and be amazed.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Finally got into World 6 last night. World 5 was a bit tricky for me, especially 5-2 for some reason. Really liked the boss fight though. So far for me it's 2 > 5 > 1 > 3 > 4. That puffer fish was the equivalent of the ice-boss battle from LM: Dark Moon for me.

 

[Scalpel Knight]

Been playing this on and off for the past few days. I'd say it's comparable to SM3DW, but as great as this game is, the best thing is the soundtrack - which is really saying something. It is fucking amazing. Bringing David Wise back was the best thing they could have possibly done. It really takes you into a whole other world and elevates the experience.

 

[Niraj]

I haven't played since I finished the other day, but man, can't get that credits music sax out of my head. Such a good song.

 

[Kandinsky]

Ok this game is pretty good.

 

[Mlatador]

Whoa, let's not diminish the level design of Returns when celebrating Tropical Freeze.

Yes, Returns is still an excellent game in every way.

 

[The Xtortionist]

While it's true the levels in TF are longer than Returns, there are also fewer levels than Returns.

Both games are incredible, though. Definitely my favorite 2D platformers, alongside DKC2.

You're right, though I meant in the context of having to design longer individual levels. Like, a level only has X amount of concepts or gimmicks to play with, so it's impressive to me that designers can extend the average length of levels past Returns' without the level getting stale. A Returns level like Tippin' Totems uses the totem gimmick, which is great, but might get old if the level was 50-100% longer. In TF, many levels really are that much longer and yet the gimmicks never wear out their welcome. Maybe that makes more sense? Basically yeah, TF and DKCR are probably about equal in total content, though designing longer individual levels is more impressive to me since gimmicks need to be further explored as to not bore the player. I'm sure it's very easy to lengthen a level to the point where the player thinks "okay, enough of this already" but TF actually leaves the player wanting more in many cases, despite the emphasis on longer levels.

 

[StreetsAhead]

How did I not know that Cranky could throw dentures? :S

 

[maxcriden]

Finally got into World 6 last night. World 5 was a bit tricky for me, especially 5-2 for some reason. Really liked the boss fight though. So far for me it's 2 > 5 > 1 > 3 > 4. That puffer fish was the equivalent of the ice-boss battle from LM: Dark Moon for me.

Please don't bring up that ice boss

 

[Currygan]

Swim better, homie!

Just kidding, sort of. I'm not gonna say you lack the skill or anything, but is it the actual swimming mechanics that you're having trouble with? Because they're pretty accurate when you get used to them.

Here's a little something I posted earlier that might help you.



Master the bolded and the swimming in this game is smooth as can be.

thanks for posting this although i don't have major issues with the controls, skillset is abundant and easy to master...but like I said I hate water levels since you've got to fight against additional forces with no chance to control them. been this way since SMB, haha

AND that goddamned 4-2. I cant for the life of me push right or left with the required timing when the camera is 3/4, gotta work on that

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

AND that goddamned 4-2. I cant for the life of me push right or left with the required timing when the camera is 3/4, gotta work on that

Interesting. That level and 5-2 as well I found the camera made it easier to see what was coming. You could see further into the distance and had more time to react.

 

[Currygan]

Interesting. That level and 5-2 as well I found the camera made it easier to see what was coming. You could see further into the distance and had more time to react.

yeah it must be me since I've seen a lot of people saying this. I tend to move the stick left/right according to my character's going left or right...when it becomes NW-SE I just flip out heh

 

[StreetsAhead]

Please don't bring up that ice boss

It beats the underwater boss by a country mile.

 

[Neiteio]

You're right, though I meant in the context of having to design longer individual levels. Like, a level only has X amount of concepts or gimmicks to play with, so it's impressive to me that designers can extend the average length of levels past Returns' without the level getting stale. A Returns level like Tippin' Totems uses the totem gimmick, which is great, but might get old if the level was 50-100% longer. In TF, many levels really are that much longer and yet the gimmicks never wear out their welcome. Maybe that makes more sense? Basically yeah, TF and DKCR are probably about equal in total content, though designing longer individual levels is more impressive to me since gimmicks need to be further explored as to not bore the player. I'm sure it's very easy to lengthen a level to the point where the player thinks "okay, enough of this already" but TF actually leaves the player wanting more in many cases, despite the emphasis on longer levels.

I'm picking up what you're putting down. You raise many good points, and I agree, Tropical Freeze gets that extra mileage out of every stage gimmick. Each level feels incredibly thorough in its exploration of an idea -- you never feel like, "Oh, it would've been cool if they had also done this or that," because Tropical Freezes goes ahead and does it.

Objectively, Tropical Freeze has usurped DKC2 as the best 2D platformer in my eyes. It has the abundant character and cohesion of DKC2, while perfecting the formula and mechanics introduced in Returns. It's just difficult to utter the words "Better than DKC2" because for nearly 20 years we've been conditioned to think DKC2 is untouchable... but I really think Tropical Freeze has edged it out. I say this as someone playing both at the same time. (And boy do they complement each other well -- we need a Donkey Kong Country Collection featuring Returns 3D HD and the Rare trilogy in 1080p!)

It beats the underwater boss by a country mile.

The underwater boss is my favorite boss in Tropical Freeze. I was under the impression quite a few people in this thread also considered him their favorite.

 

[maxcriden]

It beats the underwater boss by a country mile.

Ugghhhh that LM boss. Heh. I loved that game, but that boss was just brutal. And this is coming from someone who loved the very long staircase *and* the clocktower brawl. But that ice boss....

The underwater boss is my favorite boss in Tropical Freeze. I was under the impression quite a few people in this thread also considered him their favorite.

My wife beat Puffy (not sure what his real name is, but I bet you can school me!) but it looked like a tough, fun battle. She says: "I liked it, but I thought it was really hard." It took a bunch of tries and I was very impressed when she beat it. I'll try to beat it in hard mode or somethin' when we unlock it.

 

[Gsnap]

thanks for posting this although i don't have major issues with the controls, skillset is abundant and easy to master...but like I said I hate water levels since you've got to fight against additional forces with no chance to control them. been this way since SMB, haha

AND that goddamned 4-2. I cant for the life of me push right or left with the required timing when the camera is 3/4, gotta work on that

That's fair. I've just seen a lot of people complain about the controls, and I think they're great, so I figured I'd help out if I could.

 

[Neiteio]

Ugghhhh that LM boss. Heh. I loved that game, but that boss was just brutal. And this is coming from someone who loved the very long staircase *and* the clocktower brawl. But that ice boss....

I've been feeling the itch to return to LMM. I think I left off in the third mansion. I thought the second mansion was uniformly excellent -- they could've lopped it off and sold it as $15 DLC and I would've felt it was fair -- but the third mansion is a bit heavy on fetch-quests. Also, I'm nagged by one gem I can't find in the first mansion, no matter how long I search...

 

[Neiteio]

My wife beat Puffy (not sure what his real name is, but I bet you can school me!) but it looked like a tough, fun battle. She says: "I liked it, but I thought it was really hard." It took a bunch of tries and I was very impressed when she beat it. I'll try to beat it in hard mode or somethin' when we unlock it.

The boss is named Fugu, which I've heard is Japanese for puffer-fish, but don't quote me on that. I imagine he'd actually be the hardest boss on Hard Mode, since he creates a "bullet hell" with his projectiles that would be nerve-wracking to outmaneuver at only 1 HP. Still, what an amazing battle. It's so colorful it practically leaps off the screen, the music has a great driving beat, and the whole expanding/contracting dynamic and utilization of space made for a great back-and-forth between you and the boss.

 

[maxcriden]

I've been feeling the itch to return to LMM. I think I left off in the third mansion. I thought the second mansion was uniformly excellent -- they could've lopped it off and sold it as $15 DLC and I would've felt it was fair -- but the third mansion is a bit heavy on fetch-quests. Also, I'm nagged by one gem I can't find in the first mansion, no matter how long I search...

Oh man, you've gotta get back to it. The third mansion, which was that...oh yes. That was the most tedious to me, but I did like it. I haven't gotten all of the gems or boos in the game. I have some issues with the replayability of the presentation of LM. Just in the sense that you need to redo the missions themselves with all of their requisite goals and cutscenes, and can't just explore the mansion at your leisure. Still, it's an amazing game and a true delight. I would definitely recommend continuing on with it, the best of it is truly yet to come based on where you are in the game.

The boss is named Fugu, which I've heard is Japanese for puffer-fish, but don't quote me on that. I imagine he'd actually be the hardest boss on Hard Mode, since he creates a "bullet hell" with his projectiles that would be nerve-wracking to outmaneuver at only 1 HP. Still, what an amazing battle. It's so colorful it practically leaps off the screen, the music has a great driving beat, and the whole expanding/contracting dynamic and utilization of space made for a great back-and-forth between you and the boss.

Haha I remember now that we discussed this upthread. I was the one who was saying Fugu is pufferfish and that I knew that because I've heard of people eating it as sushi and it has to be prepared in a certain way or it can be deadly to consume because of its toxin. And yeah, it does seem like it would be brutal. Maybe I'll try a time trial run or something first.

 

[Neiteio]

Oh man, you've gotta get back to it. The third mansion, which was that...oh yes. That was the most tedious to me, but I did like it. I haven't gotten all of the gems or boos in the game. I have some issues with the replayability of the presentation of LM. Just in the sense that you need to redo the missions themselves with all of their requisite goals and cutscenes, and can't just explore the mansion at your leisure. Still, it's an amazing game and a true delight. I would definitely recommend continuing on with it, the best of it is truly yet to come based on where you are in the game.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I like the setting of the third mansion (I have a fetish for clockwork, and the sand is a nice touch). It's just that the second mansion is a hard act to follow -- they could've expanded the botanical mansion into the setting of the entire game and I would've been perfectly enraptured by the setting. Also, like you said, the structure can be a bit wearying in terms of how involving it is for a portable game, with no mid-level checkpoints. But yeah, I'm eager to get back to it once I feel like I can slow down enough to enjoy it. The lush graphics and animations (especially the colorful ghosts) are like candy for the imagination. And I know there's a slick-looking snow mansion coming up (I love snow levels!), and apparently a museum-themed mansion after that, which sounds like a lot of fun.

Haha I remember now that we discussed this upthread. I was the one who was saying Fugu is pufferfish and that I knew that because I've heard of people eating it as sushi and it has to be prepared in a certain way or it can be deadly to consume because of its toxin. And yeah, it does seem like it would be brutal. Maybe I'll try a time trial run or something first.

On a side note, Fugu's design reminds me of Ariel's friend in The Little Mermaid, but puffier and pissed off, lol. I always chuckle during the cinematic when he turns around and gasps in surprise, and DK kind of grins sheepishly.

 

[maxcriden]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I like the setting of the third mansion (I have a fetish for clockwork, and the sand is a nice touch). It's just that the second mansion is a hard act to follow -- they could've expanded the botanical mansion into the setting of the entire game and I would've been perfectly enraptured by the setting. Also, like you said, the structure can be a bit wearying in terms of how involving it is for a portable game, with no mid-level checkpoints. But yeah, I'm eager to get back to it once I feel like I can slow down enough to enjoy it. The lush graphics and animations (especially the colorful ghosts) are like candy for the imagination. And I know there's a slick-looking snow mansion coming up (I love snow levels!), and apparently a museum-themed mansion after that, which sounds like a lot of fun.

On a side note, Fugu's design reminds me of Ariel's friend in The Little Mermaid, but puffier and pissed off, lol. I always chuckle during the cinematic when he turns around and gasps in surprise, and DK kind of grins sheepishly.

Haha, I laughed when I saw that too. I hadn't thought of the connection to Flounder (I think that's who you mean) but I can see it. Heh. And yeah, as for LM, I'll definitely be eager to see what you think of the remaining bosses and mansions. The fourth boss as you saw Streets and I discussing is a bit polarizing, but otherwise the fourth and fifth mansions, and third and fifth bosses, are quite awesome and memorable in the best way.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Ok we are talking about Luigi's Mansion now. I also love the staircase boss and the clocktower brawl, and was only minorly annoyed by the fourth boss. But I must disagree with you guys about the Clocktower mansion... Nothing about it felt tedious to me and after the plant based mansion I thought it was the best one. The only one I wasn't really feeling was the final one... After the first mission it did the Nintendo thing of using past themes for the final level and I've always hated that. I hated it in OOT and Skyward Sword and I hate it here too. The final boss was decent though. Overall though it was one of the best games of last year and one of the 3DS' finest.

On topic. Still no Iwata Asks. I am losing hope

 

[Timeaisis]

Whew. Just finished all the K levels. 5-K was hell. 6-K was a piece of cake, by comparison. I'm excited to start

Spoiler

World 7

now. From a non-spoiler standpoint, how is it?

 

[Niraj]

Whew. Just finished all the K levels. 5-K was hell. 6-K was a piece of cake, by comparison. I'm excited to start

Spoiler

World 7

now. From a non-spoiler standpoint, how is it?

Surprisingly easy, but fun.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Whew. Just finished all the K levels. 5-K was hell. 6-K was a piece of cake, by comparison. I'm excited to start

Spoiler

World 7

now. From a non-spoiler standpoint, how is it?

Meh I wasnt that enthused by it. The world was poorly fleshed out unlike all the other worlds. Difficulty wise its on par with the other K levels, I felt it was more difficult than a lot of the K levels but mainly due to much trickier puzzle piece locations. I felt those levels were either developed by a different team or were rushed.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I'm on the last level...

Spoiler

FUCK THOSE CRAAAAAZY CLOUDS!

In comparison, the Rocket Rails Level was super-easy...

 

[chronosic]

World 5 + alcohol is no bueno!

 

[AdanVC]

Is it just me or the Hootz kinda resemble to Archimedes from The Sword in the Stone? Hahah

I really like the work they done with the Snowmads.

 

[Macapala]

After almost two weeks of waiting my copy has FINALLY arrived! Up to the second world and loving it so far.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

I'm having a really hard time understanding the complaints about the underwater mechanics and controls. They're superb to me, full directional control, and great control of speed by swimming with A or bursting with Zr/Zl.

With the buddies it gets even better, with crankys cane, diddies jet-burst and dixies hair twirl boost.

 

[The Librarian]

thanks for posting this although i don't have major issues with the controls, skillset is abundant and easy to master...but like I said I hate water levels since you've got to fight against additional forces with no chance to control them. been this way since SMB, haha

AND that goddamned 4-2. I cant for the life of me push right or left with the required timing when the camera is 3/4, gotta work on that

I hated World 4 too. Though nothing compares to 6-4 in terms of irritation.

 

[DirtyLarry]

I am sure it was answered multiple times already in this thread, but it is now over 100 pages so forgive me for not combing through all pages, but just reading this last page of comments I realized I have barely played any of the K levels and am currently at the start of World 5.

So my question is a simple one...
Is there something specific one needs to do to open up the K levels? Or are they available by default?

 

[atbigelow]

You need to collect all the KONG letters in the other levels of the world. And that includes the secret levels.

 

[maxcriden]

I hated World 4 too. Though nothing compares to 6-4 in terms of irritation.

That was a brutal level. Did you end up beating it yet?

 

[Currygan]

I hated World 4 too. Though nothing compares to 6-4 in terms of irritation.

woah good times ahead for me it seems. Yeah at first I thought you were overreacting a bit but damn, I can see your criticism now

still, this in no way influences how i'd rank the game: GOTY candidate

 

[Gonzo The Great]

Does anybody else hate concept art? It just makes me think of how much wasted potential a game has. I don't remember seeing any hippopotamuses, parachute chicks, or snowball fights.

 

[emb]

You need to collect all the KONG letters in the other levels of the world. And that includes the secret levels.

Finding those secret exits is way harder than finding the four letters ever was. Is there a list (or in game indicator) to tell me which levels have them without spoiling where in the level they are? I've been guessing based on greyed out map positions, but due to the K levels and secret levels being beside multiple normal levels, it's tough to tell sometimes. So far I've only found the extra levels in world 2 and one of the ones in 5.

 

[Mr-Joker]

Does anybody else hate concept art? It just makes me think of how much wasted potential a game has. I don't remember seeing any hippopotamuses, parachute chicks, or snowball fights.

I hate collecting them and I hate looking at them, especially when the game is pretty short compare to returns.

 

[Revven]

So I finished playing through the game yesterday (haven't gotten all the KONG letters in every level yet nor have I found all the secret exits) and I feel like I loved this game a lot more than DKCR. I'm not sure what it is about it that makes me like it more (could it be the music?) but man, it was great. And the boss fights were infinitely better than DKCR (I didn't have much fun with the bosses in the last game, their patterns were... not really what I'd call enjoyable to learn, especially since they reused one or two of the bosses in DKCR in later worlds).

The levels are all varied and it's always doing new things. World 6 does a lot of new stuff when you think it won't and it surprised me more than I thought it would. Shame that the levels are a little shorter in World 6 than the other worlds but the awesome music and general level design of each totally makes up for it, IMO.

I'm gonna make it a point to go and unlock every level now that I haven't. I want to see what else Retro's hidden in here... I need MORE.

 

[MegalonJJ]

Alpine Incline has beautiful music. (This game...)

 

[Nocturnowl]

Does anybody else hate concept art? It just makes me think of how much wasted potential a game has. I don't remember seeing any hippopotamuses, parachute chicks, or snowball fights.

On the contrary I love concept art, seeing early design concepts, unused ideas and the path to a finished in game result .
I only wish there was some text to explain such things.

Though it is odd how the majority of the art is stuff that didn't make it into the game over anything else, the bonus room is one instance where this really stung.

 

[Gartooth]

I just found out that Dixie picks up barrels... with her hands. Guess it was so she could keep her special ability while being able to pick up barrels but disappointing she doesn't mimic her DKC animations very much.

Also concept art / dioramas are the shit, they exist as fun bonuses for those dedicated enough to find them and I always appreciate getting a look at a game's development. Just be happy there isn't concept art of other Kongs/Animal Buddies/Kremlings or else we would all cry sloppy tears.

 

[The Librarian]

That was a brutal level. Did you end up beating it yet?

I tried one morning but couldn't do it. I've been away from home on vacation so I haven't tried since Sunday. I'll try a couple more times when I get back.

woah good times ahead for me it seems. Yeah at first I thought you were overreacting a bit but damn, I can see your criticism now

still, this in no way influences how i'd rank the game: GOTY candidate

yes, overall, yes, definitely.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I just found out that Dixie picks up barrels... with her hands. Guess it was so she could keep her special ability while being able to pick up barrels but disappointing she doesn't mimic her DKC animations very much.

In a way I'm kind of disappointed that her hair just spins on its own now as opposed to her having to spin in general to leverage its use but oh well.
I figure she has to pick up barrels with her hands since you can still perform the helicopter hair while holding objects in this game.

 

[shauntu]

Completed 6-Boss, tough boss! Now to go after the A, B, and K stages

 

[maxcriden]

I tried one morning but couldn't do it. I've been away from home on vacation so I haven't tried since Sunday. I'll try a couple more times when I get back.

It was definitely one of the hardest levels I've played and took me about a zillion tries. Don't forget, there are always the shop items if you need 'em. Good luck!