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DOTA 2 BETA 2 |OT10| Reborn

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inkls

Member
Sadly being strong 1v1 and having a strong laning presence isn't enough. His team fight contribution if he's in equal or lower footing as the enemy's mid/carry is mediocre (besides dropping the ult bomb, which can lead to nothing).

i'm not a good OD player, not even close to it, but even pickoffs seem hard with him. More often than not I need help from a second player to kill a simple support.

Well part of his strength is that he can essentially crush any int mid and snowball on top of it. The only int mid that fares reasonably well vs him is pugna imo.

You get a huge lead in lane since the enemy mid can't compete with you with rightclick dmg so you should be able to get 100% lh and denies and you leave the lane vs an extremely underfarmed core vs you. Thats what makes him so strong.

What I meant was that his team fighting abilities aren't that impressive, especially when compared with other top picks mids like QoP, Storm, BM, etc..

How is OD's teamfight not impressive? sanity eclipse by itself is already impressive and the damage output is insane with refresher if you get items. Pure damage right-clicks and being able to take out an enemy hero for part of a fight or save an ally not to mention his passive that gives really good endurance to deathball pushes.
 

kvk1

Member
random lc into maapo + troll no repickerino, 33 min blink vlads 2 duel stacks, enemy keeps throwing like idiots before taking rax

the flow in this verse insane

vivi when is your mixtape coming out

burn.gif
 

kionedrik

Member
Hmm. I think in the right situation his team fight abilities are absolutely devastating. People always say that he ruins int mids but if you pick him into a strength or low int hero heavy lineup your ult will fry them; lategame you can easily oneshot a carry like Ursa if you get ahead.

No doubt about that. He's a niche pick and while there's nothing wrong with that i feel people, and pros mostly, value versatility above all else.

My personal opinion is that QoP and BM are the current strongest mids, so let's compare OD to them.
- QoP and BM have wave-clear which allows them to rune control better. OD doesn't.
- QoP as built-in blink and BM tends to go for it as #1 or #2 item. OD doesn't really want a fast blink.
- In regards to the last points, they can also split push better and safer than him.
- OD is the strongest itemless of all 3, meaning his damage output comes directly from his abilities (mainly orb) and not directly from items or right-click.
- His ult can either be the most devastating thing ever or can do nothing. Comparatively QoP's and BM's ult have a known consequence/damage.
- His HP pool isn't that high and is on par with QoP's (if I remember correctly). BM has a massive HP pool.
- QoP can safelane, mid or offlane. BM can mid or offlane. OD can only mid.
- His item progression is more or less always the same, while the others have much more freedom to itemize.

I don't want to say he's bad, because he isn't, but others are much better at what he is best at... That's why I thought about adapting him to other roles.
 

manfestival

Member
newbee is so bad but I need basher pl and encan'tress to win for reasons

only reason they have an invite is because the former team as newbee won TI4. otherwise there is no way they would get that shot

it would be such BM for valve to not give newbee an invite after they just won
 
yeah, and personally I'm fine with inviting defending champs to the next annual tournament


...it's just sad :(

they won though, basher PL is legit >>>>>
 

Big Dog

Member
I bet after this TI Valve will not guarantee the winner a spot at next years tournament. They will leave it all up to their Majors tournaments to show who deserves those slots. I hope the point is proven of Newbee's poor play by them being knocked into the losers bracket immediately and then ending up in 14-16 place at TI5.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
I bet after this TI Valve will not guarantee the winner a spot at next years tournament. They will leave it all up to their Majors tournaments to show who deserves those slots. I hope the point is proven of Newbee's poor play by them being knocked into the losers bracket immediately and then ending up in 14-16 place at TI5.

hmm, how vindICTive tbh

isn't it customary in virtually ever major tournament in every sport to invite back the reigning champion?
 

BigAT

Member
It's an odd thing because of the potential turnover that can happen to a team in just a years time. Newbee at least has 3 returning members, but it could just as easily be 0. At some point you are giving an invite to the returning sponsor, which doesn't necessarily seem right.
 

Bilix

Member
I'm guessing this won't be a problem for TI6 since we're getting 4 official tournaments now. It should be clear who gets invites and who doesn't next time around.
 
It's football btw.

And the champions aren't invited for the next Cup anymore, that stopped happening 5 or 6 years ago.
Champions League still automatically qualifies the previous winner.

Problem is that it makes much more sense for champions league since the previous winner won't switch half their players within months and will be competitive no matter what. In Dota players leave teams constantly and stable rosters barely exist. Hopefully with the new changes that happens less and teams will have an actual identity.
 

harSon

Banned
I'm guessing this won't be a problem for TI6 since we're getting 4 official tournaments now. It should be clear who gets invites and who doesn't next time around.

Is the tournament that happened this past weekend going be a yearly occurrence (in SJ/SF)? I'm still pissed I didn't know about it until Sunday afternoon lmao.
 

kionedrik

Member
Champions League still automatically qualifies the previous winner.

Problem is that it makes much more sense for champions league since the previous winner won't switch half their players within months and will be competitive no matter what. In Dota players leave teams constantly and stable rosters barely exist. Hopefully with the new changes that happens less and teams will have an actual identity.

That's partially true. They qualify to the play-offs at least (depending on the club's national results in the previous season). They may not be a part of the main event.

When I posted I was thinking about World Cups and Euro/African/etc Cups. The way team changes between these events is much more comparable to the way DotA team changes between TI's, so the fact that the champ isn't directly invited kinda proves that the last TI champ shouldn't have a free pass either.
 

shira

Member
I'm guessing this won't be a problem for TI6 since we're getting 4 official tournaments now. It should be clear who gets invites and who doesn't next time around.

Not really, I just think it will help teams stick together longer

Like for example if we made Summit 2 (VG, C9, TS, EG, NoT, TT), DAC (EG, VG, TS, BG, C9, Rave, HGT, iG), and ESL-ONE frankfurt (TS, EG, VG, TM, A, VP, C9, iG) the "majors" from this season then how would that make things easier

- MVPP is garbage now
- Alliance doesn't deserve shit
- Tinker doesn't even have the same lineup

Those top 4 teams are consistent, but the next 5 are random.
 
Isn't the first TI where not all of the previous winners got direct invites?
Yeah, but I think that was a coincidence anyway. Pretty sure Alliance, Na'Vi and IG were strong enough to get invited to TI4 even if they weren't past champions. I could be wrong though, I don't remember how strong they were exactly at that point, IG might have sucked.

Edit: nope, IG was decent. While Alliance was disappointing, they still performed better than a bunch of teams.
 
Yeah, but I think that was a coincidence anyway. Pretty sure Alliance, Na'Vi and IG were strong enough to get invited to TI4 even if they weren't past champions. I could be wrong though, I don't remember how strong they were exactly at that point, IG might have sucked.

As I remember alliance was doing well, navi was getting 3-4th places, IG rekt EG 22-0 just before TI but were doing poorly since starladder 9 before that.
They all deserved the invites like you said.
 

manfestival

Member
given the roster change, i dont think so

which is why i didnt put them in my invite predictions

I know its a different roster but its bad business to forsake an organization because of changes within its structure. The invite makes sense, just means our expectations of them are changed.
 

Haunted

Member
Probably one of the biggest things that makes this easier is letting you buy wards one at a time. That shit is really a HUGE deal to supports, as with limited gold, going "Ugh, I gotta not have a TP for a bit so I can buy the wards" or vice versa really sucked, and now generally you can afford both TP and one ward, and pick up the other ward later. Generally you aren't going to be dropping two wards so quickly anyway, so you don't really need to buy both at once if you can't afford it.
Yes, it's kinda crazy how such a minute, seemingly insignificant change that not many people analysing the patch notes even touched upon has improved support life.
 

Hylian7

Member
Yes, it's kinda crazy how such a minute, seemingly insignificant change that not many people analysing the patch notes even touched upon has improved support life.

Yeah, another nice part of it is that in pub games, at the beginning of a game, it's generally both safe lane and offlane can each by a ward, rather than one having to rely on the other's mercy for a ward ("ward pls"). Obviously not a big deal in pro games, but in pub games it's particularly helpful, especially if you are not support and just need one ward, it's even easier to do that yourself now.
 
I think it's even worthwhile to buy a obs/sentry if you're mid and are afraid of getting ganked, 75 gold is nothing compared to how useful that ward could be for you.
 

Hylian7

Member
I think it's even worthwhile to buy a obs/sentry if you're mid and are afraid of getting ganked, 75 gold is nothing compared to how useful that ward could be for you.

Yeah, especially since the builds for mid these days are Null + 2 tangos pls/tangos bought yourself and only delaying bottle by 75g isn't too big of a deal for one ward. Nothing like having to drop an extra 150g.
 
Ugh I guess I'll have to watch Mad Max now

Almost everyone I know said it looked dumb in trailers so I'll have to start convincing people.

The movie is apparently a 2 hour version of the trailer.... so maybe people will be hard to convince?

I am hyped for the movie, can't believe people actually think the trailer looked dumb.
 
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