I don't remember his games going like that, I remember him simply out farming the entire enemy team since TB was still really strong and EE is damn good at farming. Though I guess it did mean once he won a fight his entire team got new items and allowed a quick win
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DOTA 2 BETA 2 |OT10| Reborn
- Thread starter SteveWinwood
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Wasn't TI4 6.81?
The rubberband came into effect in 6.82 when they saw the disaster that were the TI finals
Next thing you're gonna tell me, deathball isn't rat dota
StarlordDial
Member
So now that the summit sucks where are the immortals and compendium patch?
"polishing" them lol
StarlordDial
Member
On my phone these bears look like they're off their tits
can't unsee that EE on the top left
Monochromaticx
Member
On my phone these bears look like they're off their tits
MY EYES!!!
DISGUSTING WHITE THEME!!!
yeah, they are polishing things...
?? you're vastly oversimplifying shit. Yolo pick TB worked if:
- enemy team didn't have tools to reliably push hg (whihc is a problem with hg itself, and with heroes like DP, Pugna, Rastha being nerfed after TI4 or just bad)
- enemy team didn't have a carry that could do anything late game vs terrorblade
Comeback mechanic isn't punishing for the better team, it's rewarding teams which understand the game better. In this case, teams who don't draft early game strats with no reliable HG push or which don't draft even a single lategame core.
A simmetric game can't have a mechanic that favor the "bad" team it's just impossible. Tell me one tournament that was won by a "bad" team in 6.83, there wasn't. Compared to most games and sports, cinderella's stories are almost impossible. The closest i can think about is DTS vs EHOME.
Comeback made all phases of the game comparatevely equally important, whereas now it seems it's only the first 10 mins that matter. This is a game where advantages breed more advantages, and need serious mechanics to avoid the game just being decided by the first tower in 65+% of games like it was in 6.82.
shira
Member
Jacky mao is your service providr? JmaoOn my phone these bears look like they're off their tits
Sorry, I didn't mean that post to be my interpretation or analysis of c9's 6.82 games. I'm just transcribing what EE was saying on stream, so take issue with his 6k mmr kanadaklap rant.
I disagree with that last part though, I think the early game (mostly laning stage) was really really marginalized in comeback mechanic doto. Mid/late-game was a lot more important and safer. I agree with you that we've seen very little late late game in competitive and that sucks, but I'd rather we get there using 6.84 as a baseline for changes than the other way around. Regardless, hard carries and late game are still very much alive in pubs (which matters more to me than competitive), and I'll always take a good or relatively balanced pub experience over a competitive (the two don't have to be mutually exclusive so hopefully we get there).
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Yeah 6.81, 6.82 was the mega-rubber band patch which didn't live long iirc.
Technosteve
Banned
icex3 making up shit in english while they say other things in chinese lol
EE and PPD are two pros that while super good i'd never listen for advice. PPD whined for months about the supposed "bad teams wins only because of stupid rubberband" and now has already started whining about the "retarded 6.84 you can't come back from the smallest disadvantage" Kappa hey Kappa Kappa Hey
6.83 enabled late game carries (which tend to be weak lanes), but didn't completely rule out strong laning with pushing.
6.84 thus far seems to be contingent entirely on the laning phase.
Has he already started whining about 6.84 lol? Where at?
Not directly afaik , he just stated he missed 6.83. Ironically or not, but i'm sure at the end of this tournament he will say more PJSalt
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
My point is that what you are talking about is NOT deathball.
TI4 finals was deathball, THESE are just fast games decided in the laning phase because of snowballing. Deathball implies that one team groups up as 5 and starts taking fights and objectives, almost never splitting up, and that is actually rarely happening in pro games right now.
That guy just likes to whine a lot.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
alliance didnt dominate for a year, they kicked off after January just before getting picked up.
They were win dimensional and used it to the max. Post TI demonstrates it perfectly.
This is a good point to reinforce, "deathball" usually implies some sort of heavy push or push based lineup. These aren't push lineups that are stomping, these are lineups that rack up 15-20 kills in the first 10 minutes and leverage their kill advantage into a quick win. Deathball was all about leveraging your tower advantage into a win by grouping up as five, eight minutes into the game, and bulldozing lane after lane (with little to no fighting or counter response).
But I guess by "deathball," people just mean "quick games." The irony is that people wanted the dream "kill, kill, kill" meta, but when kills are the most efficient way of getting gold and building an advantage... well, looks like games are short once you cut out all the creep farming downtime.
poppedcollar69
Member
can we go back to talking about something productive
hats
hats
Sigismundo
Member
If playing League taught me anything people are very, very quick to reduce anything into a buzzword.
shira
Member
No hats for 2 weeks.can we go back to talking about something productive
hats
thats a toxic way of seeing things
NotoriousPUG
Member
6.83 removed the first 25 minutes of the game.
ellen pudge stahp.
No they weren't. They were destruction of deathball. VG was deathball until the finals; Newbee showed how to beat it.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
game is booty butt cheeks.
next TI will be like CoD Ghosts.
next TI will be like CoD Ghosts.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
6.83 was like the first 25 mins didn't matter for shit because one bad fight the other team would have like 4-5k in an instant. Supports on the "winning" team would give way too damn much gold when they were just warding all game. Carries would give like 2k solo when dying or someshit.
Hyperbole much? Early game mattered still a lot, if that wasn't the case you would have seen only greedy supps picked. If anything, greedy supp still went mostly untouched in 6.83 (omni, abaddon, etc...), because laning phase was still incredibly important. Lion, Venge, Sky, WD were the most picked supps, hardly greedy heroes.
Also:
Have fun.
neurosisxeno
Member
...with deathball. They out deathballed VG, that's why they won. That and VG's horrible drafts.
as a spectator, its kinda bad
When u consider that u could've watched the first 10 mins of all those games and then turned them off, with a single exception, yeah it's bad.
Games in 6.83 weren't even that long. DAC average was 38 mins, compared to 39 of TI4 and 25 mins of the summit. With the difference that DAC games weren't stupid games where you had one team winning at min 10 and then dragging it for 15 more mins like the Shitmit. In fact, DAC had probably the best games of every tournament since TI3 and till today. But no, the cumeback, bad teams wins, not fair
rakkadakka
Member
They can find a balance between comeback mechanic and all the other nerfs.
Heroes are worth more, creeps are worth less, towers are easier to kill and if you nab the people ahead it's worth a lot less.
There's something in that formula that can be changed so we get some better pro matches.
It doesn't automatically mean that the fix is to reinstate the comeback mechanic.
Heroes are worth more, creeps are worth less, towers are easier to kill and if you nab the people ahead it's worth a lot less.
There's something in that formula that can be changed so we get some better pro matches.
It doesn't automatically mean that the fix is to reinstate the comeback mechanic.
It can be at times. Most of the time, no. But watching secret methodically pick apart LGD, and take some big fights on the back of Kuroky's play (both his rubick and wisp) was still entertaining. But yeah, you don't want every game to be a stomp.
When your favorite team is stomping a rival (in any sport, not just esports), it's oddly satisfying and fun (i.e. eg getting shitslammed by c9
.I don't know, I enjoyed Vici destroying C9
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