Dota 2 Beta Thread 2: Real Talk Discouraged [Magnus, Teams, 6.75b, 150+ Shop Items]

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Just got in, thanks to someone giving me a key. I've never ever played a MOBA game before, I wanted to wait till this one to get started. I'm going to try reading some guides and see if I can join you guys.

EDIT: Nobody congratulate me. I'll check out the links in the OP
 
I had two matches today that we should have won easily, but we/me choked.

showfqkkc.gif
 
The_Technomancer said:
Just got in, thanks to someone giving me a key. I've never ever played a MOBA game before, I wanted to wait till this one to get started. I'm going to try reading some guides and see if I can join you guys.

EDIT: Nobody congratulate me. I'll check out the links in the OP
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Try joining the gaf noobs channel. They'll be able to help you out.
 
The_Technomancer said:
Just got in, thanks to someone giving me a key. I've never ever played a MOBA game before, I wanted to wait till this one to get started. I'm going to try reading some guides and see if I can join you guys.

EDIT: Nobody congratulate me. I'll check out the links in the OP
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Congrats. Check out some links on the internet
 
Procarbine said:
After consecutive wins I have determined that support veno + ward build going arcane boots into mjollnir is ideal.
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I completely disagree. On hybrid supports like veno I much prefer Dagon. Supports are by nature squishy but packed with lots of utility. Throw a dagon on CM or a hero like dazzle and you have the ability to change games with a 500+ burst that will essentially create a 4v5 fight. I've tested this in 2-3 games so far and the results have been superb, far exceeding my initial expectations.
 
Irish said:
Sorry for fucking our lane, Dreams. I think that was my worse Leshrac game ever.
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Nah man you were fine!

With lanes like that (Tiny + Sniper) they want to stun then let Sniper roll. Best way to play that game is to not play it at all. They were hoping we'd dive in to try to get last hits so that they could rape us. They had the range advantage and one of the easier AOE stuns in the game.

Your average Riki may have done just what they wanted...but I'm not your average player and have learned that patience is often the greatest of virtues. I did exactly what I wanted to do there in that situation, which was to level up until level 6 and stay alive so that I could go invis. At that point, farming is easy for ol' Riki. Yea, I was well behind by then (I think I had 4 last hits at 8 minutes lol), but by the end of the game, I had treads + butterfly + skullbasher + sny + diffusal and finished something like 14/2/9.

As long as you know what the enemy lane really wants to do and keep them from their main goals, you're okay. If you can accomplish your own goals, that's just a bonus. :-) To that end, we didn't feed them at all (I think they got one kill in 10 minutes on our lane). We did great and finished accordingly. They fed Drow like crazy though. That was funny.

The only thing we could have done better was block our creeps more so that we could get some last hits behind our tower in safety. That would have meant a few more items earlier...but it was fine. Also, ganks from mid would have been nice earlier, as they were basically free farming for 10 minutes. Anyway, I didn't see you much after the laning phase because I was busy trying to farm up the goods, but you had some epic stuns. I remember that much. Made Riki's and Drow's jobs very easy.

I still maintain that Sniper is wonderful for the laning phase...his harass is OP early. But if he's not fed by the end of the laning phase, he's often times going to be a liability or otherwise easy pickins. If he's fed...well hell, any fed hero in Dota is going to be a problem. lol


Anbokr said:
I completely disagree. On hybrid supports like veno I much prefer Dagon. Supports are by nature squishy but packed with lots of utility. Throw a dagon on CM or a hero like dazzle and you have the ability to change games with a 500+ burst that will essentially create a 4v5 fight. I've tested this in 2-3 games so far and the results have been superb, far exceeding my initial expectations.
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kinda interesting, but it seems like a disable (orchid, sheep) would be money better spent. the stats most supports desperately need with actives that help the carries and gankers do their job (kill). I'll give it a try at some point, though!
 
Had a horrible game in an IH today. First one Brood was easily taking advantage of me. PC crashed. Tried to join back up, and while loading the game, it crashed again. Then I got in and I was like 5 levels behind :/

Second one was fun. Thought I fucked up a kill on BS I think I was doing an average job by warding like a support should and helping out as much as I could. Didn't really get a chance to use my ult because it was mostly fooling around.

I learned two things though.

1: Blood Seeker can't touch you if you run around a tower :P

2: Lich can't beat Doom 1v1 (even with Sheep stick).
 
Dreams-Visions said:
Nah man you were fine!

With lanes like that (Tiny + Sniper) they want to stun then let Sniper roll. Best way to play that game is to not play it at all. They were hoping we'd dive in to try to get last hits so that they could rape us. They had the range advantage and one of the easier AOE stuns in the game.

The only thing we could have done better was block our creeps more so that we could get some last hits behind our tower in safety. That would have meant a few more items earlier...but it was fine. Also, ganks from mid would have been nice earlier, as they were basically free farming for 10 minutes. Anyway, I didn't see you much after the laning phase because I was busy trying to farm up the goods, but you had some epic stuns. I remember that much. Made Riki's and Drow's jobs very easy.
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I probably should have gone for more early lighting harass, but I am always apprehensive about laning with a Riki. I mean, I knew you were probably much better than the average random, but my confidence was still pretty low. I kinda wanted to keep my mana in check just in case. Of course, those Tiny stuns proved I made a pretty dumb decision there. I think if I were doing more damage with that lightning they wouldn't have tried to pull those ganks so often. I probably could have got more farm that way as well but I was being a darned mana conservative for no real reason whatsoever.

Lesh's stun is a complete pain in the ass. The delay makes it feel like it takes ages for it to come out. I'm surprised I managed to nab so many without an advanced stun from another person.

Yeah, those other GAFfers that we were playing with are trying to do as much experimenting as possible during the beta.

Decent game overall.
 
Irish said:
I probably should have gone for more early lighting harass, but I am always apprehensive about laning with a Riki. I mean, I knew you were probably much better than the average random, but my confidence was still pretty low. I kinda wanted to keep my mana in check just in case. Of course, those Tiny stuns proved I made a pretty dumb decision there. I think if I were doing more damage with that lightning they wouldn't have tried to pull those ganks so often. I probably could have got more farm that way as well but I was being a darned mana conservative for no real reason whatsoever.

Lesh's stun is a complete pain in the ass. The delay makes it feel like it takes ages for it to come out. I'm surprised I managed to nab so many without an advanced stun from another person.

Yeah, those other GAFfers that we were playing with are trying to do as much experimenting as possible during the beta.

Decent game overall.
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It's a pain in the ass to get it on Ranged heroes. For melee it's real easy (if they don't know how to spot it).

Just aim at one of the creeps with the lowest hp on your team that's about to be targeted by a hero, and watch them walk into a stun.

Edit: Speaking of Lesh stuns, The_Player with all those misses on Swag :lol

Man it looked frustrating. Dude would force staff his way out of them.
 
Having a hard time here. It's annoying as fuck so weird controlling a character by clicking where you want them to go.
 
Fuck...just want to break something right now. Lost two games consecutively that were both very winnable. First game was our mistake (despite having tower and kills advantage we let NS run free first night) but second game my friends and I were stuck with a BH that decided to go afk for 5 min during laning phase, repeatedly feed, never track riki, talk shit to the opposing team and even at one point stole an invis rune from teammate..despite that we were still in position to win but he fucked it up for rest of us....damn this fucking game..

/goes off to smash keyboard...
 
I don't think I can do this. I feel like I'm trying to guide a blind person by describing the situation to them. Aside from the amazing disconnect from character control, even the core gameplay seems really removed from myself. Until you're fighting with other people, you're basically just watching creeps fight and trying to tactically kill them in the order you want to push/pull the battle location and stop the enemy hero from doing the same in their favor. Having the action being this autonomous process you are both trying to tweak is... so bizarre... Then you have all the shopping stuff.

I don't know. My favorite games are ones where you have 100% precision control over everything in 1:1 ratio to inputs. Even when it's brutal like Super Meat Boy, God Hand, Rainbow Six, or sim racers, that's what I like. This seems to be doing everything it can to block, distance, and complicate every step of every gameplay element. It's maddening. I can see how it came out of RTS, though. I guess if you're used to those it would just be like a more character-focused version.
 
HK-47 said:
Who doesnt like team healing?
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Not team players of course.


Phandy said:
No vanguard Sanjay?
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If the laning phase is hard then going Vanguard would be a good idea.


Moobabe said:
Thanks for all the help guys, I'm going to try out some of that stuff now in a game with Phandy (don't tell him though - he'll bitch and moan)
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But that bastard randoms everygame :@ and moans at you for picking a hero. Farmland folk you just can't understand them.
 
Dice said:
I don't think I can do this. I feel like I'm trying to guide a blind person by describing the situation to them. Aside from the amazing disconnect from character control, even the core gameplay seems really removed from myself. Until you're fighting with other people, you're basically just watching creeps fight and trying to tactically kill them in the order you want to push/pull the battle location and stop the enemy hero from doing the same in their favor. Having the action being this autonomous process you are both trying to tweak is... so bizarre... Then you have all the shopping stuff.

I don't know. My favorite games are ones where you have 100% precision control over everything in 1:1 ratio to inputs. Even when it's brutal like Super Meat Boy, God Hand, Rainbow Six, or sim racers, that's what I like. This seems to be doing everything it can to block, distance, and complicate every step of every gameplay element. It's maddening. I can see how it came out of RTS, though. I guess if you're used to those it would just be like a more character-focused version.
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If you don't want to watch creeps for an eternity, try ganking classes. You'll be bringing the action to enemy heroes whether they like it or not.
 
Sanjay said:
But that bastard randoms everygame :@ and moans at you for picking a hero. Farmland folk you just can't understand them.
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I am pretty sure what ever I randomed, played out WAY better than your fucking support Queen of Pain. And boy I wasn't the only one moaning at you.

Also, I ALWAYS random right at the very start. Say if you don't want me to random and I wont. And it's not hard to pick around the first pick. If you really want to play a hero, pick it at the beginning, so the team can pick around it somewhat. If 2 people instapicked heroes, or randomed. I wouldn't proceed to random afterwards.

What I hate is when I random right at the beginning, then lets say I get a support hero. And then 3 other people on the team PICK support heroes (this happened to me last night), and people start bitching about the random.

(I am totally ok with people bitching if I random Warlock/Batrider/Jakiro though.)


Also Dice; it sounds like you are just not used to it yet. Its a different way of controlling and moving a character around, but when you get used to it, you would be surprised by how much control you can have. You can have VERY tight control over what your hero does.
 
n0b said:
Oh sorry, it might be possibly just because you only have characters in one category each, so disagreements are on priority. I also kind of think the best divisions are more along the lines of farm/level dependency, but it may be harder to explain to newer players like that.
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I agree with a lot of your reasoning. The thing is that it's difficult to divide up heroes and put them in single roles since they can fit so many, though, so I tried to put them in what I thought was their most useful asset.

-Leshrac is played as a support a lot (mainly by Na`Vi) and as good as he is with farm, he excels even as a support hero. He's mainly there to burn down towers quickly so he'll remain as a pusher.
-Sniper is NOT a pushing carry, he's an unapproachable ranged carry and I will fight to the death on this!
-Necrolyte eh sure. I think his AOE presence is more pronounced though.
-Tinker, I think he's more valuable for his global gank presence than his push power.
-Spiritbreaker sure.
-Lion sure, although he's a lot more commonly seen as a solo than WD, Veno, or CM.
-Lich definitely, was talking with 1.09 earlier before your post and he was thinking the same thing.
-AA and SD nah. They're not that level dependent (though sure, they're great with the levels!). Could certainly play them as a solo but there are way better solos out there.
-Jakiro sure.

More than anything though, the list is mainly sorted in a way to assist newer players.
 
BeesEight said:
I'll be happy if we even get one. :/

Didn't Tobi mention that their goal was to only get five more out before the International II?
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5-10 left from Dota 1, not 5 heroes that will come out until the international lol.

Also since Phantom Lancer is coming out, he has like billions of illusions right? What are the main items/skills that instakill illusions, I know there are some.
 
JustinBB7 said:
5-10 left from Dota 1, not 5 heroes that will come out until the international lol.

Also since Phantom Lancer is coming out, he has like billions of illusions right? What are the main items/skills that instakill illusions, I know there are some.
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Owtworld Destroyer's Orbs doing tons of damage to illusions, so he's probably the best counter to Lancer atm.
 
JustinBB7 said:
5-10 left from Dota 1, not 5 heroes that will come out until the international lol.

Also since Phantom Lancer is coming out, he has like billions of illusions right? What are the main items/skills that instakill illusions, I know there are some.
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Diffusal blade I think?
 
JustinBB7 said:
5-10 left from Dota 1, not 5 heroes that will come out until the international lol.

Also since Phantom Lancer is coming out, he has like billions of illusions right? What are the main items/skills that instakill illusions, I know there are some.
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besides OD orb there arent really any. But they take so much dmg from your basic hero skills that AOE spells should just do fine.
 
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