Cydonian__Knight
Member
Wow, Mag died to illusions in 2 seconds.
Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]
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Spirit of Jazz
Banned
He was given free farm all match, he was always going to get out of hand.
Alch had more farm. And it was 5x1 fight, PL still survived.
I am fucking ashamed of this alchemist.
Not very well, at least when it matters late game.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Of course Alch had more farm from goblin's greed, but his item build was questionable and PL is a much stronger carry overall. If you're barely keeping ahead of the enemy carry as an Alch with freefarm, that's not ideal...
PL was left completely uncontested for 20 minutes, what do you expect. It's like people complaining when they give up a 10 min battlefury to AM and then complain when he has a heart + manta + half a bfly 24 mins in. If you don't gank hard carries or take towers early on, you're going to lose. PL happens to be one of the hardest carries in the game right now, so go figure. Rox.kis got outdrafted and outplayed pretty hard.
I dont know man, still think no hero should survive a 5 man gank with just boots/manta/diffusal. Too many illusions, that's the only thing that deserves a nerf imo.
SteveWinwood
Member
Congrats you're right for the first time this qualifier
PaleFolklore
Member
It seems my spectate count isn't going up on my courier. It's been stuck at 10 and I've watched three matches since. Anyone else having this issue?
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Known issue, they're working on a fix. View counts aren't working for any tournament couriers right now.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I'd also note that Clockwork got absolutely nothing in the early game, where as LD did pretty well (especially once the first tower fell and Alch for some reason went to his jungle for 10 minutes) by manipulating creeps and only having 1 death early on despite facing a tri-lane that had the potential to slaughter him once they hit level 2.
To be honest I think they should have ran their tri-lane as offensive, Bane was the only stun and disruption + soul catcher into charged concoction, illuminate, and with potential acid spray should have been enough to handle the pl/tree/bane.
So we should nerf Naga, AM, and maybe Void as well? They can all survive 5 man ganks, especially with maxxed items.
Alch bought shit items and the hero relies on having gold advantage.
Compare picking up a Naga/Void/AM to picking up a PL in the middle of the fight. You have no idea who to stun as there will prob be 10 PLs all over your screen. That's why I think nerfing the number of illusions he produces (while increasing the chance to spawn one) is a good thing to do.
But that's what the hero is designed to do lol. He's the illusion carry. "ZOMG WHY DOES PL HAVE SO MANY ILLUSIONS BLOCKING MY VIEW. ZOMG ROFL PL ILLUSIONS KILLED SOME1 SO BROKE AN ILLUSION CAN DO THAT." That's the entire hero concept. It's like complaining that PA crit someone for 1k or that lycan can push towers down quickly. Yeah, that's their identity. PL's is to be a late game monster and annoying bitch with illusions everywhere.
So what do you suggest, no nerf for PL?
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Nerfing that would completely change PL. He is meant to have many illusions.
If he is nerfed, they would either increase the amount of damage the illusions take, or nerf dopple. Ultimately, the biggest nerf to PL is knowledge. Pick heroes that are scary earlier and don't let him farm.
Nope. If you want to appease the mass of pubs that think he's broken just give him a slap on the wrist ursa or sven nerf (i.e. reduce str gain by like .1 or nerf doppelwalk very slightly). Hero is fine. Sven got a laughable -5% cleave damage and ursa got that cast time on overpower to appease the mob.
Yeah? He's barely picked lately.
Yes, nerfing Doppel is another thing I think would work. At least give a visual cue (Like a blurring effect) so you know when to throw a dust. Or maybe even unit walking on the Illusions so you cant get trapped inside them.
Yeah that minor stats nerf would probably do enough...
Drop it as soon as you engage.
Pretty much. Also Dust.
Head of Vengarl
Banned
When you play against a good PL they usualy go manta->doppelwalk.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Doesn't need a nerf, the hero can easily be countered(there are close to half a dozen other carries that will win a man fight vs a pl with equal farm, and Gyro and Luna can beat PL with less farm if the initiation is there), Rox just fucked themselves in the draft and did not select the best possible carry to go up against a PL.
If you wait till he has manta(like Rox did) you are doing it wrong. It is too late at that point.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Congrats you're right for the first time this qualifier
get off my dick, son! lol
Well yeah, that's the point. Give him some unremarkable nerf that will lessen the whining.
What are you doing ganking a PL when he already has manta without a gem?
pieatorium
Member
Just drop his agi gain back down a bit again, it went from 2.8 to 4.2 in his buff. Put it somewhere around 3.4 and a level 15 pl has lost 12 damage per hit almost 2 armour and 12 attack speed.
Maybe a cooldown or mana nerf on lance too
Maybe a cooldown or mana nerf on lance too
Why does he have a manta? And even if, why did you put yourself into the position of only having dust when ganking him at that point?
The point I'm trying to make is: once PL is fed, your team composition/skills... wont matter. The only time I remember seeing a fed PL lose was when Gyro got that double rapier, and imo, that's just ridiculous. As someone (I guess it was Tobi) said, going against a PL is fighting against the clock.
In a real situtation, you wont be ganking PL 24/7 just because he's there. You have to farm/push/counter push. That's why I dont buy this "just gank him early" thing.
In a real situtation, you wont be ganking PL 24/7 just because he's there. You have to farm/push/counter push. That's why I dont buy this "just gank him early" thing.
So why is PL fed?
In a real situation, I would have already won the game at that point.
In a real situation, I would have already won the game at that point.
See above. And when I mean "fed", I'm talking about only manta/diffusal/boots, that's all he needs to ruin your day.
Shutting down a late game carry at high levels is not about 'ganking'.
You put a good aggressive trilane against him and you pound him into dust, and you never let up.
You don't lane a fucking solo clockwerk against a PL trilane and not expect him to be get out of control.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Even then in the late game I could see an empowered alch doing well against PL if they land an RP into concoction. They just seemed to play a really bad match.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Anyone who can cleave can handle PL with good team composition. Tiny, Gyro, DK, Sven, and some others with Magnus. Throw in some extra AoE, some proper truesight, and he can die just as easily as anyone else.
Also you are against the clock for many heroes. That phrase has been used for many, many heroes.
He has low HP with just those items. He can be ganked easily still.
Then why isn't he picked every single game? Why does he have a ~50% win rate?
Green Biker Dude
Banned
report rox.kis
SteveWinwood
Member
The starladder VI hud is hilariously ugly.
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