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Dota 2 |OT11| $400 of Support and Passion
- Thread starter TUSR
- Start date
i think you've forgotten what being really new at dota is like tbh
Because it really isn't, and sometimes the majority can be wrong on things? I understand the points you are trying to make, but all of you are looking at it like it is a super complicated monster to new players when all it does is give them more health or mana when they need it.
It is complicated to experienced players. Experienced players have to practice at it before they can do it consistently or effectively, and many of them forgo doing it at all, because the benefit is so slight, with such a narrow window of effectiveness, that people can get to 4k+ without even giving it a second thought.
call_kotaku
Member
It's like saying that sensible financial advice to poor people is for them to buy a Mazda MX-5 because learning how to drive stick shift makes you a better driver and the MX-5 is a relatively affordable manual car. Both facts are true so therefore it cannot be bad advice.
Case in point, if it's really as simple as you say it is, pretty much every player at your level would be doing it all the time.
You should take a look at the mids you're facing or people in the side lanes to know this is blatantly untrue.
You should take a look at the mids you're facing or people in the side lanes to know this is blatantly untrue.
Glass Shark
Banned
As a 2k MMR player who constantly thinks that I'm not the problem and my team is, I feel like a total hypocrite for saying this... but, Hylian, do you ever realize that you are very often in situations where you are the only one saying a thing and everyone is disagreeing with you? I don't think it's that you have some magical Dota insight that the rest of us don't have...
T☆SR
You say the benefit is so slight, but is it? With proper tread switching you can work wonders. Let's do a bit of math here.
This is Power Treads in the current patch:
We know the following about attributes in the current patch (although I'm pretty sure none of this has changed, ever if I'm not mistaken):
So given these facts, lets say you need to cast a spell. Treads give you +9 to your selected attribute, so in this case you want Int. Doing the math here:
9 * 13 = 117
Already that's no "neglible benefit". That's pretty huge, and all you did was press an item button.
Now lets talk about Str.
9 * 19 = 171
171 HP for free right when you need it is also a pretty good deal. For a frame of reference a Vitality Booster costs 1100g and gives you 250HP. That's over half of an 1100g item just by pressing a button.
Except you don't have to learn a whole alternate way to play Dota, just a simple press of a button in the right situations.
I also prefer driving stick myself, but that's a whole other debate and I understand why many people don't want to do it.
And more people really should get into it. I have gotten much better about Tread switching and use it quite often myself. Just a large chunk of the community doesn't do it does not mean new players shouldn't learn to do it. There is absolutely nothing to lose by doing it.
Glass Shark
Banned
Oh my god man, no one is arguing with you about what Power Treads do. We all know how Dota works. We all know how to do the math. You going through all that just looks like you think you're smarter than everyone else. And you're not. There are many better players than you in this thread.
What exactly is your point here? None of those players said Tread switching is useless or anything of the sort, let alone that's not even what the discussion is about. Some did say the benefit was slight, and the point of all that was to show that is definitely more than "slight".
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Hylian how should I control my camera
call_kotaku
Member
Jesus Christ
The point isn't whether or not learning manual is good, it's the fact that for a poor person proper budgeting is the financial advice they should be getting, and learning how to drive stick shift is at the very bottom of their priorities. New players have an attention budget, and tread switching is absolutely the least efficient way for them to spend it, even if objectively it's something that never hurts.
It is such a small part of their attention that requires though. It's even less than saying "You shouldn't put the ward there, put it over there instead"
treads are great boots
so are arcanes
arcanes give lots of mana and are very easy to use effectively especially for new players on mana hungry heroes--treads on the other hand take a little bit more micromanagement, a bottle (and rune control), and don't give that nice n easy crucial active that gives you and the rest of your team that sweet sweet burst of mana
so are arcanes
arcanes give lots of mana and are very easy to use effectively especially for new players on mana hungry heroes--treads on the other hand take a little bit more micromanagement, a bottle (and rune control), and don't give that nice n easy crucial active that gives you and the rest of your team that sweet sweet burst of mana
Dreams-Visions
Member
ya'll are nuts. actually nuts.
i'd rather play with someone who knows how to ward than someone who knows how to tread switch
How many times has tread switching won you the lane and the game?
Because I assure you, it will not be nearly as many times as my games have been won with wards. Or correct Force Staff usage. Or smoke ganks. Or pulls. Or stacking. Or, hell, even just farming correctly. At any level of play. And I would never, ever, tell a novice to practice all of these things while starting out.
No, maybe after a three months of coaching I can talk about pulling and stacking. Tread switching is for their Junior year of DOTA. Meepo and Invoker are their graduation thesis.
treads are great boots
so are arcanes
arcanes give lots of mana and are very easy to use effectively especially for new players on mana hungry heroes--treads on the other hand take a little bit more micromanagement, a bottle (and rune control), and don't give that nice n easy crucial active that gives you and the rest of your team that sweet sweet burst of mana
As long as they are not a hero that would require potential right clicks to follow it up (QoP for instance, as she is a fairly straightforward mid hero that new players might play). You wouldn't go arcanes on QoP because you know you will have to potentially follow up with right clicks. That lack of attack speed can be a cause of missed kills and frustration.
Glass Shark
Banned
if you dont tread switch it's not pub losing
of course, but then again i wouldn't recommend qop/storm/sf and co. to new players.
But this is actually not true.
At all.
I know because I remember that using any item wasn't just a small part of my attention when I was new and I know it wasn't for others as well.
call_kotaku
Member
I'm done
I'm just tread switching between 3 posts over and over now, this is absurd
I'm just tread switching between 3 posts over and over now, this is absurd
The lane? Plenty. The game? Hard to say really, but I would imagine that factored into it.
I would think you would have to get into stacking or at least pulling a lot sooner than three months. You wouldn't want to play three months of games with safe lanes that are out of control and the carry can't farm very well.
I'm not saying you have to tell people to Tread switch on their first game, but I would think at least a few games in it's something you should mention if they play a hero that buys Treads.
Yeah, I would agree, but in lower level games where everyone is about the same skill/experience level, someone has to play mid. QoP is one of the more straightforward ones for new players. Her skills aren't complicated, there's nothing weird like Storm's ult or SF's Razes occupying 3 keys but it actually counts as one skill.
commended
Glass Shark
Banned
You are objectively wrong. This is not the same at all. You are talking about single-state knowledge that is applicable at every point in the game and requires very little dexterity, timing, and reflexes. Tread switching is not trivial. You are blind to it because you've played the game so much. It's like reverse Dunning-Kruger or something.
fnatic.black what in the fuck
oh wow, fnatic black?
i think communication wise it'll be better than his time in vg, english is more common there
It really is that simple though, hell I can make it even simpler:
Red if you need more health
Blue if you need more mana
The rest of it they can learn with time, but saying Tread switching is less simple than something like warding is in fact objectively wrong.
Glass Shark
Banned
I think "put the treads on blue if you need mana" is a fairly simple concept, yes. I think people should learn that fairly early. Along the same lines of "if your hero needs more mana buy Int items". But that's not what tread switching is. Are we moving the goalposts?
You're the only person that's moved goalposts here.
shira
Member
I think he wants to play the TI qualifiers from every region
Glass Shark
Banned
I can't even with this
Nah because mgo was delayed till January.
I still need to play the rest of the series, I remember I tried 4 a while back and it lost me around the 20 minute introduction of the fucking guy with the monkey you sell weapons to.
i thought it was closer to like October? Or did it get delayed again?
Either way I hope its closer to MGO1 then MGO2...I fucking hated the 2nd one.
Reviews have said no 1000 minute cutscenes this game.
October for consoles. January for pc.
Yeah, I've been hearing the same thing. I asked a friend well versed in the series if I need to play the others first and he said I probably should, but maybe skip 4.
