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Dota 2 |OT11| $400 of Support and Passion

I

Imp the Dimp

Member
kionedrik said:
Not OP but one tiny buff or meta change away from being so.

Her aghs upgrade is just insane, top 3 easily.
Click to expand...

I actually hope she doesn't get buffed because I'm afraid she'd get nerfed into a state worse than now. 6.84c Windrunner is one of my favourite heroes ever.

But yeah, even without buffs, a simple meta change could push her over the edge. She annihilates heroes like AM, Void, PA and others. If Lion, Lina and a few other nukers/disablers fall out of favour, she'll be up there.
 
T

The_Poet

Banned
I've been cleaning up with Techies recently at around 4k

He's just clicked with me and the pressure it puts the enemy team under is nuts.

Aggressive mining catches everybody out.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Yeah, get bottle. I usually play her mid nowadays, so I have a bottle anyways but she really lacks regen if you safe or off lane her and omit the bottle, since you don't build any mana regen items on her.
 
I

Interceptor

Banned
Shuggananas said:
bottle + mana management. You need phase.
Click to expand...

Tried this for a long time. Overall having full hp and lots of mana due to soul ring abuse helps me more in the early game. Especially in low mmr it can be a real pain in the ass to get runes. (Like full bristles taking regen right under your nose while you are on your last hp) Damage racks up at min 15-20 with the orchid.


Imp the Dimp said:
Yeah, get bottle. I usually play her mid nowadays, so I have a bottle anyways but she really lacks regen if you safe or off lane her and omit the bottle, since you don't build any mana regen items on her.
Click to expand...

Mana regen is my top priority. That's why i get tranquills and souls first. Overall more mana than a bottle on average (for me) Orchid next and mana problems are no more.
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
tranqs soul ring owns if ur offlane

happy.gif
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Tranq SR is good for support WR, for core WR you want phase bottle
If some idiot takes the rune under your nose report and move the fuck on, that's not game losing, just annoying
 
I

Interceptor

Banned
Shuggananas said:
Tranq SR is good for support WR, for core WR you want phase bottle
If some idiot takes the rune under your nose report and move the fuck on, that's not game losing, just annoying
Click to expand...

Oh i like the phase/bottle combo and i wish i could pull it off but i lost so many early games due to it.. Team takes it, Storm got it first etc etc and you sit there like a duck with low hp and mana. I think i stay more independent until i climb back to a higher mmr. ^^ Just staying alive helps you so much in this game.
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
its fine for offlane too who cares about phase if ur forced into 3 position honestly

at that point ur more relied on for shackles then for ur burst dps

get with it
 
I

Interceptor

Banned
1.09 said:
its fine for offlane too who cares about phase if ur forced into 3 position honestly

at that point ur more relied on for shackles then for ur burst dps

get with it
Click to expand...

Yep. Burst comes with the orchid. Especially with failing supps in low mmr i have to take care of my regen myself. Having an emergency button for windrun/shackles/powershot saved the day so many times i can't count it anymore.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Interceptor said:
Yep. Burst comes with the orchid. Especially with failing supps in low mmr i have to take care of my regen myself. Having an emergency button for windrun/shackles/powershot saved the day so many times i can't count it anymore.
Click to expand...
Are you saying you have a script for this?
 
K

kionedrik

Member
I find blink to be an absolute must-have for her simply because of the flexibility it gives you on team fights and solo pick offs. It makes it impossible to miss a shackle which in turn turns any gank into a kill or disables the supports during the team fight.

I don't like orchid on her because you can't get it early enough for it to pay off, assuming you go for blink and/or aghs first. If you go for orchid first you will be really gimped past the laning phase. It gives you a nice early game disable, good mana regen and some attack speed that you really don't need but the item falls off pretty fast after the 25min mark. WR is already an early game powerhouse so, imo, you should itemize her to be relevant in later stages of the game.

If you really suffer with mana regen consider getting a perseverance and later upgrading it to a linkens.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
kionedrik said:
I find blink to be an absolute must-have for her simply because of the flexibility it gives you on team fights and solo pick offs. It makes it impossible to miss a shackle which in turn turns any gank into a kill or disables the supports during the team fight.

I don't like orchid on her because you can't get it early enough for it to pay off, assuming you go for blink and/or aghs first. If you go for orchid first you will be really gimped past the laning phase. It gives you a nice early game disable, good mana regen and some attack speed that you really don't need but the item falls off pretty fast after the 25min mark. WR is already an early game powerhouse so, imo, you should itemize her to be relevant in later stages of the game.

If you really suffer with mana regen consider getting a perseverance and later upgrading it to a linkens.
Click to expand...

I like blink but I just don't know when to get it. After aghs ? I feel I miss too much damage afterwards. Best is probably between cristalis and daedalus I think
Don't like orchid because it's the same cost as aghs but isn't as good. Except on support/offlane WR ofc (the one that would go tranq sr)
 
I

Interceptor

Banned
kionedrik said:
I find blink to be an absolute must-have for her simply because of the flexibility it gives you on team fights and solo pick offs. It makes it impossible to miss a shackle which in turn turns any gank into a kill or disables the supports during the team fight.

I don't like orchid on her because you can't get it early enough for it to pay off, assuming you go for blink and/or aghs first. If you go for orchid first you will be really gimped past the laning phase. It gives you a nice early game disable, good mana regen and some attack speed that you really don't need but the item falls off pretty fast after the 25min mark. WR is already an early game powerhouse so, imo, you should itemize her to be relevant in later stages of the game.

If you really suffer with mana regen consider getting a perseverance and later upgrading it to a linkens.
Click to expand...

Blink is fun as hell on her but i exchanged it for a shadow blade during the last games. Depends on tbe team i guess. Perseverance is an interesting idea but i think you undervalue the orchid. Really good damage on an int hero plus 30% bonus damage. And of course the silence to keep any incoming storms stranded. An early aghs is very tempting but what can you do with that low cooldown if you deal no damage?
 
I

Interceptor

Banned
Shuggananas said:
With null talis, aghs, bottle and phase you don't have no damage if you have 600 attack speed lol, you kill most heroes during shackles
Click to expand...

Yeah those phase really help there.. you see my dilemma? ^^

But i will try to ditch the orchid for an early aghs next game. We'll see how that works.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Interceptor said:
Blink is fun as hell on her but i exchanged it for a shadow blade during the last games. Depends on tbe team i guess. Perseverance is an interesting idea but i think you undervalue the orchid. Really good damage on an int hero plus 30% bonus damage. And of course the silence to keep any incoming storms stranded. An early aghs is very tempting but what can you do with that low cooldown if you deal no damage?
Click to expand...

FF only reduces base damage so any +damage you have is not reduced, that's why you should go phase on her, as well as some other + damage items.

A little math:

- Level 1 FF has a 50% damage reduction. Your base damage is ~50. It's common practice to get a null talisman (+6 int +3dam) and phase (+24 dam) so, after reduction, you are hitting for 56 * .5 (base damage) + 27 = 50 damage every attack at max attack speed.
- If you manage to hit a lv 2 shackle, the enemy is disabled for 2.25s. In that time how many hits from FF do you land? And even after the stun end you can windrun forward and chase. It's a lot of damage for any low level hero, even those with big hp pools. Obviously you don't want to target anyone that you aren't confident that you cna kill (too much HP or too much armor).

Basically the "deal no damage" statement is false. Sure you aren't hitting for a lot each time but you hit a lot of times and those damage instances add up.

Just one final thought regarding orchid and storm. If he jumps you and knows what he's doing, you're dead. So either don't get jumped or jump him instead. Orchid doesn't give you any of those options. The same principle applies to a lot of other heroes. And I'm not saying orchid is a bad item just that imho it's not a worthwhile item on WR.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
i'm banned from 109 twitch chat for my pernicious use of ʕ ͡•ᴥ ͡• ʔʕ ͡•ᴥ ͡• ʔ
 
I

Interceptor

Banned
kionedrik said:
FF only reduces base damage so any +damage you have is not reduced, that's why you should go phase on her, as well as some other + damage items.

A little math:

- Level 1 FF has a 50% damage reduction. Your base damage is ~50. It's common practice to get a null talisman (+6 int +3dam) and phase (+24 dam) so, after reduction, you are hitting for 56 * .5 (base damage) + 27 = 50 damage every attack at max attack speed.
- If you manage to hit a lv 2 shackle, the enemy is disabled for 2.25s. In that time how many hits from FF do you land? And even after the stun end you can windrun forward and chase. It's a lot of damage for any low level hero, even those with big hp pools. Obviously you don't want to target anyone that you aren't confident that you cna kill (too much HP or too much armor).

Basically the "deal no damage" statement is false. Sure you aren't hitting for a lot each time but you hit a lot of times and those damage instances add up.

Just one final thought regarding orchid and storm. If he jumps you and knows what he's doing, you're dead. So either don't get jumped or jump him instead. Orchid doesn't give you any of those options. The same principle applies to a lot of other heroes. And I'm not saying orchid is a bad item just that imho it's not a worthwhile item on WR.
Click to expand...

I like that build in theory but in an actual game it makes me a glass cannon. I prefer to be more versatile.
 
I

Interceptor

Banned
Shuggananas said:
no more glass cannon than orchid SR tranquil though
spectre-what.gif

early aghs makes you quite tanky actually, good hp
Click to expand...

True, you gain tankyness and a ridiculous low cooldown. I get insane regen and silence as an offensive and defense mechanism. Damage should be around the same on ult. I guess it depends on how much you value the cooldown versus versatility.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Interceptor said:
I like that build in theory but in an actual game it makes me a glass cannon. I prefer to be more versatile.
Click to expand...

It works though... (never mind the High and Very High disparity, I've been playing in reborn and MM is still not the best).

I tried vary build orders and items but my goto item build is: blink/aghs (get one or the other 1st depending on the game), crit, bkb if needed, mkb, etc.

HWsrWFh.png


The thing about her is that with bkb and windrun you're invulnerable to 100% of all attacks (except those that pierce bkb) so you being a glass cannon becomes almost a non-factor since you can't be touched and you can melt anyone in 3 or 4s, even a 6 slotted 4k HP carry.

The only thing she is not good at right now is that she can't solo win games, like storm or other mids/carries
 
L

Label

The Amiga Brotherhood
Hmmm I have always built Force Staff instead of blink on WR, maybe I need to rectify that. I can imagine it is a lot more useful.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Force staff is super shit compared to blink when it comes to offensive plays
Usually you get force staff if you play utility WR and even then you'll get blink too
 
O

OldAsUrSock

Banned
Imp the Dimp said:
I actually hope she doesn't get buffed because I'm afraid she'd get nerfed into a state worse than now. 6.84c Windrunner is one of my favourite heroes ever.

But yeah, even without buffs, a simple meta change could push her over the edge. She annihilates heroes like AM, Void, PA and others. If Lion, Lina and a few other nukers/disablers fall out of favour, she'll be up there.
Click to expand...
Windy is also devastating to mana dependant heroes. Grab diffusal and aghs then watch the mana and hp go away. The diffusal slow will also make sure they can't get away.
 
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