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Dota 2 |OT12| A Safe Place For Your Sociopathic Behaviors.

H

Hylian7

Member
rakkadakka said:
Yeah whatever "WesterWood"

Oldfags tryin to tell me where MOBAS came from.

Like they got a clue.
Click to expand...

Um.
templar-shifty.gif
 
C

Chris R

Member
Landing 5 man black holes is so much fucking fun.

Shame they didn't win us the game :( Sniper was playing his 10th game if I had to guess

edit: and from looking at the replay and YASP... Necro being fed by Lina/Jugg didn't help at all either.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
rofl nrootn's supposed 6.86 "leaks" that he posted on reddit were completely deleted as were all responses, mod deleted, not self-deleted

dp rework and lycan aghs confirmed ?
gross.gif
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Kard8p3 said:
did he say what the dp rework and lycan aghs would be? or only that it was happening?
Click to expand...

na he just said something like:

"map changes - radiant offlane 4 exit/entrance paths
-dp rework
-lycan aghs"

im guessing the dp rework will probably just change the silence and witchcraft (maybe even roll part of the silence into crypt swarm).

here's to hoping aoe kill bounty is also reduced slightly and creep gold brought up just a tad; pro just afk farmed in a game we played today and had the most last hits (311) and I killed just a few heroes (with fewer last hits) and the difference was 650 gpm vs. ~480, the gap is too wide mang. felt like a goddam -EM or hon casual mode game with kills 5-10 minutes in giving anywhere from 400-800g (WITHOUT KILLSTREAKS) too. game propelled me to 58th best lycan dotabuff tho
smile.gif
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
na he just said something like:

"map changes - radiant offlane 4 exit/entrance paths
-dp rework
-lycan aghs"

im guessing the dp rework will probably just change the silence and witchcraft (maybe even roll part of the silence into crypt swarm).

here's to hoping aoe kill bounty is also reduced slightly and creep gold brought up just a tad; pro just afk farmed in a game we played today and had the most last hits (311) and I killed just a few heroes (with fewer last hits) and the difference was 650 gpm vs. ~480, the gap is too wide mang. felt like a goddam -EM or hon casual mode game with kills 5-10 minutes in giving anywhere from 400-800g (WITHOUT KILLSTREAKS) too
Click to expand...

A Lycan Aghs isn't hard to believe, although I'm not really sure why the change for Radiant offlane needs to happen. I also don't think DP needs a total rework to be viable, unless we're just counting reworking one spell as a "rework".

Creep bounty has been reduced and kill bounty has gone up over the last few patches, creating this gap.
 
M

Monochromaticx

Member
Anbokr said:
na he just said something like:

"map changes - radiant offlane 4 exit/entrance paths
-dp rework
-lycan aghs"

im guessing the dp rework will probably just change the silence and witchcraft (maybe even roll part of the silence into crypt swarm).

here's to hoping aoe kill bounty is also reduced slightly and creep gold brought up just a tad; pro just afk farmed in a game we played today and had the most last hits (311) and I killed just a few heroes (with fewer last hits) and the difference was 650 gpm vs. ~480, the gap is too wide mang. felt like a goddam -EM or hon casual mode game with kills 5-10 minutes in giving anywhere from 400-800g (WITHOUT KILLSTREAKS) too
Click to expand...

yeah the kill bounty is worst thing in this patch.
I hope DP does gets proper buffs/rework she deserves
sad.gif
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Hylian7 said:
A Lycan Aghs isn't hard to believe, although I'm not really sure why the change for Radiant offlane needs to happen. I also don't think DP needs a total rework to be viable, unless we're just counting reworking one spell as a "rework".

Creep bounty has been reduced and kill bounty has gone up over the last few patches, creating this gap.
Click to expand...

no hero needs a rework to be viable u can give her ghosts 300 damage each and she's beyond viable, but she's a prime candidate for a rework because she became too much of a one dimensional hero that is completely worthless when her long ass cd ulti was down. also her silence and witchcraft are just very generic boring ass abilities that are just begging to be remade (and her base stats adjusted accordingly).

and im guessing radiant offlane is just going to be made easier to gank along with some changes that make dire offlane/ancients a little more defensible
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
no hero needs a rework to be viable u can give her ghosts 300 damage each and she's beyond viable, but she's a prime candidate for a rework because she became too much of a one dimensional hero that is completely worthless when her long ass cd ulti was down. also her silence and witchcraft are just very generic boring ass abilities that are just begging to be remade (and her base stats adjusted accordingly).

and im guessing radiant offlane is just going to be made easier to gank along with some changes that make dire offlane/ancients a little more defensible
Click to expand...

Witchcraft I agree, but I don't really have a problem with Silence. I mean it used to be literally the same as Drow's, and then Drow got Gust. If they find a new interesting way to make it work though, bring it on. For now though, DP's silence is technically unique.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
I like the idea of roling silence into Crypt Swarm, yeah it's basically once again convergence between her and Drow but this time around the skill actually plays interestingly. Turn Witchcraft into an innate passive and give her a new active
sad.gif
hush.gif
 
S

Sigismundo

Member
So the main problem with DP is that she's terrible without her ult, right?

How would you fix that without doing the "League shift of power" where they make some stuff stronger at the cost of others?
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
but some heroes are sorta designed to be ultbots and that's not necessarily a bad thing... anything that makes her vastly stronger in between ults and you'd have to nerf it

tbh making it last after her death like epicenter would be plenty cunty and sufficient.

also eye of the storm and eclipse please, buff 3 underused heroes with one change
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Being able to control ghosts after death sounds like a decent Aghs buff.

Ghosts healing allied units after their duration if dead to make it obnoxious.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
SecretMoblin said:
but some heroes are sorta designed to be ultbots and that's not necessarily a bad thing... anything that makes her vastly stronger in between ults and you'd have to nerf it
Click to expand...

it's not about making her vastly stronger outside of her ulti per say, it's about making her more than one dimensional and giving her some measure of usefulness during the downtime. i.e. enigma is an ult bot and significantly less threatening without his ultimate, yet he still has the power to flash farm with eidelons, stall pushes with midnight pulse, and his stun is one of the most annoying and persistent lockdowns in the game

dp has... a much worse shadowraze and an aoe silence with an extremely long cast time that she's not even going to be in a position to cast w/o her ultimate. she's literally nothing while her ulti is down, just a shell
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
also i rly want TB in cm, hero is ownage
Click to expand...

Sibylus said:
Being able to control ghosts after death sounds like a decent Aghs buff.

Ghosts healing allied units after their duration if dead to make it obnoxious.
Click to expand...

If they did something like that, I guess maybe it would be something like a "ghost" version of DP floats around that can't actually attack, but if you attempt to initiate an attack it has the ghosts target it, just like the ult is now. That would be a cool idea.

Another idea might be to give her a sub-ability to be able to "shoot" the ghosts off in a direction and they attack a unit they come in contact with, prioritizing heroes, and then come back. The range would be longer than the ult's normal range.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
it's not about making her vastly stronger outside of her ulti per say, it's about making her more than one dimensional and giving her some measure of usefulness during the downtime. i.e. enigma is an ult bot and significantly less threatening without his ultimate, yet he still has the power to flash farm with eidelons, stall pushes with midnight pulse, and his stun is one of the most annoying and persistent lockdowns in the game

dp has... a much worse shadowraze and an aoe silence with an extremely long cast time that she's not even going to be in a position to cast w/o her ultimate. she's literally nothing while her ulti is down, just a shell
Click to expand...

When it comes to one-dimensional heroes like that, Icefrog often likes to make what's good about them better in some way, not necessarily just invent a whole new functionality for them. Probably a prime example of this is Bloodseeker. He still does the same thing he was meant to do, he just does it a lot better now.

Examples where it was changed were PL and TB. Both of these heroes were the masters of splitpush, being able to fight any single target with illusions with no problem, but otherwise generally running from teamfights. Now with their reworks, both of them CAN still splitpush, but nowhere near as effective as it used to be, and are more meant to join fights now. For both of them to splitpush, they have to bring the actual hero there now, otherwise it won't reach the effectiveness it had before their reworks. TB's illusions lose Meta form when they go away from him, PL's illusions have a short duration.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Hylian7 said:
When it comes to one-dimensional heroes like that, Icefrog often likes to make what's good about them better in some way, not necessarily just invent a whole new functionality for them. Probably a prime example of this is Bloodseeker. He still does the same thing he was meant to do, he just does it a lot better now.

Examples where it was changed were PL and TB. Both of these heroes were the masters of splitpush, being able to fight any single target with illusions with no problem, but otherwise generally running from teamfights. Now with their reworks, both of them CAN still splitpush, but nowhere near as effective as it used to be, and are more meant to join fights now. For both of them to splitpush, they have to bring the actual hero there now, otherwise it won't reach the effectiveness it had before their reworks. TB's illusions lose Meta form when they go away from him, PL's illusions have a short duration.
Click to expand...

so u just told me icefrog likes to buff strengths (which he does) and then u told me reworked heroes often have identity/strength shifts... and we're talkin about a potential DP remake lol. u kinda just answered ur first point. also making dp's strength any stronger just means back to 6.81 dp. low cd long duration hyper beam ulti and not much else. there comes a point where a hero's strength is about as strong as can be and it becomes about shoring up their underperforming or unpopular skills. not necessarily giving them new strengths, but making every ability they have fun, unique, and powerful for a well balanced, well feeling kit. tho again, buffing say crypt swarm or giving her a new active doesn't necessarily create new strengths, but shores up unnecessary/unintended weaknesses or just makes her better at what she already does (w/o touching her ulti).

also bloodseeker is hot garbage and an awful example (currently), probably the worst hero in the game imo (outside of techies but i like to pretend techies doesn't exist). i was tellin milk months before 6.85 that im guessin the frog is guna crunch that max thirst hp threshold, and I remember I said he'd probably lower it to 90% from 100, and milk just laughed about how unnecessary and hard of a nerf that would be. welp it got dropped to 75% which is just hilarious overkill, shit needs to scale up to like 75/80/85/90 at the very least. bloodseeker is basically perma 340 ms with miniscule damage now with only short-lived, fleeting bursts of speed and extra damage when a hero is literally 1s away from death, and then it all goes away again... such a sad existence, poor guy.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Kard8p3 said:
pls chilly lizard i just want jugg+troll buffs.
Click to expand...

jugg is fine imo and still a lot of fun to play as long as u max blade flurry. troll i need to be strong/op again cuz hes so fun and the ultimate mongoloid hero. losing 15 base damage, most of his vision, and the -30% duration on his ultimate all at once...goddamit icefrog make that duration scale back up to 5/6/7 and give back some of dat lost damage by upping the damage on bash pLS
 
K

Kard8p3

Member
Anbokr said:
jugg is fine imo and still a lot of fun to play as long as u max blade flurry. troll i need to be strong/op again cuz hes so fun and the ultimate mongoloid hero. losing 15 base damage, most of his vision, and the -30% duration on his ultimate all at once...goddamit icefrog make that duration scale back up to 5/6/7 and give back some of dat lost damage by upping the damage on bash pLS
Click to expand...

o ya, don't get me wrong, I love Jugg and am still performing well with him. He and Troll are just my favorite two mmr climbers rofl.

I was legit depressed for a week at the troll nerf.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
so u just told me icefrog likes to buff strengths (which he does) and then u told me reworked heroes often have identity/strength shifts... and we're talkin about a potential DP remake lol. u kinda just answered ur first point. also making dp's strength any stronger just means back to 6.81 dp. low cd long duration hyper beam ulti and not much else. there comes a point where a hero's strength is about as strong as can be and it becomes about shoring up their underperforming or unpopular skills. not necessary giving them new strengths, but making every ability they have fun, unique, and powerful.

also bloodseeker is hot garbage and an awful example (currently), probably the worst hero in the game imo (outside of techies but i like to pretend techies doesn't exist). i was tellin milk months before 6.85 that im guessin the frog is guna crunch that max thirst hp threshold, and I remember I said he'd probably lower it to 90% from 100, and milk just laughed about how unnecessary and hard of a nerf that would be. welp it got dropped to 75% which is just hilarious overkill, shit needs to scale up to like 75/80/85/90 at the very least. bloodseeker is basically perma 340 ms with miniscule damage now with only short-lived, fleeting bursts of speed and extra damage when a hero is literally 1s away from death, and then it all goes away again... such a sad existence, poor guy.
Click to expand...

It's tough to compare it since they are different patches, but I would say Bloodseeker is still better right now than any of his iterations before his remake.

I like that Icefrog is branching out heroes with similar or the same abilities. For instance separating Lion and Lina ult at Aghs, or changing Nyx Impale to be different than Lion Earth Spike. He seems to want to keep the current set of abilities, and if isn't working out, just remake the whole thing (or at least major changes to some of the abilities). I could see something like maybe giving Witchcraft an active that lets you take some time off of the ult CD, I don't really know what else. I'd rather not see a Crypt Swarm Silence hybrid honestly, that really defeats the purpose of the hero if her wave clear turns into a silence, as that would probably remove her from mid due to the likely high mana cost of that.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
I just noticed that Dotabuff TrueSight added a column in the last hits per minute table for "Last Hit Accuracy Percentage". What exactly does this mean? How many last hits you made out of the ones you attempted? I thought it meant about whether you got them or not when you were in the lane, but then I saw this one:

dFOWzwT.png


Obviously a Winter Wyvern isn't going to be taking a carry's CS when she's in lane with them, but clearly the "missed" CS there aren't counting against her percentage.
 
Y

yarden24

Member
Anbokr said:
also bloodseeker is hot garbage and an awful example (currently), probably the worst hero in the game imo (outside of techies but i like to pretend techies doesn't exist). i was tellin milk months before 6.85 that im guessin the frog is guna crunch that max thirst hp threshold, and I remember I said he'd probably lower it to 90% from 100, and milk just laughed about how unnecessary and hard of a nerf that would be. welp it got dropped to 75% which is just hilarious overkill, shit needs to scale up to like 75/80/85/90 at the very least. bloodseeker is basically perma 340 ms with miniscule damage now with only short-lived, fleeting bursts of speed and extra damage when a hero is literally 1s away from death, and then it all goes away again... such a sad existence, poor guy.
Click to expand...

right after reading this post I randomed bloodseeker:

iLZWJg9.png


also note the doom with another AC, roughly 5-6 minutes after i bought mine
 
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