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Dota 2 |OT12| A Safe Place For Your Sociopathic Behaviors.

G

gai_shain

Member
godelsmetric said:
with the events of the defence it seems safe to say that secret were shortchanged by the format of the major and the finals are undeniably unfair to the UB winner. thots?
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nope, if you are the best team you will win. How often has it happened in dota that the best team didnt win a tournament?

Also a team doesnt become the best team in the world by winning 1 "small" tournament.
All it means if liquid wins is that kuro was right obviously
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
gai_shain said:
nope, if you are the best team you will win. How often has it happened in dota that the best team didnt win a tournament?
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hmm lets see off the top of my head

TI5, frankfurt majors

and both won by teams from the LB.......hmm very interesting
 
R

Red UFO

Member
Even if going through the UB puts you at a disadvantage, if I was on a team I would prefer to play 3 games to secure second place prize (which is still a fatty stack of cash) than have to play the 4 extra series or whatever to get to the grand finals.
 
A

Auteezy

Banned
i mean the best team on a certain day or during a certain weekend does not mean you are the best team in the world. I don't get why this is so fucking hard a concept for some people to grasp. Look the golden state warriors are 21-0, eventually they will lose a game, maybe even to a team with under 50% winrate, does that make that team then the best team in the league? NO, everyone understands it DOESNT. If the warriors play a back to back across the country and they lose are people going to blame some of the loss on that, YES but all of it? NO because they LOST. TEAms FUCKING LOSE. and sometimes they lose to BAD teams.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Auteezy said:
i mean the best team on a certain day or during a certain weekend does not mean you are the best team in the world. I don't get why this is so fucking hard a concept for some people to grasp. Look the golden state warriors are 21-0, eventually they will lose a game, maybe even to a team with under 50% winrate, does that make that team then the best team in the league? NO, everyone understands it DOESNT. If the warriors play a back to back across the country and they lose are people going to blame some of the loss on that, YES but all of it? NO because they LOST. TEAms FUCKING LOSE. and sometimes they lose to BAD teams.
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When someone says "the better team" in light of a given tournament, they're typically referring to the bubble of that tournament. Whether or not they're actually "the best in the world", if a team lost at the tournament they're clearly not the better team by any metric that matters in the discussion of that tournament. I'm not even sure what you're point is honestly.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Auteezy said:
i mean the best team on a certain day or during a certain weekend does not mean you are the best team in the world. I don't get why this is so fucking hard a concept for some people to grasp. Look the golden state warriors are 21-0, eventually they will lose a game, maybe even to a team with under 50% winrate, does that make that team then the best team in the league? NO, everyone understands it DOESNT. If the warriors play a back to back across the country and they lose are people going to blame some of the loss on that, YES but all of it? NO because they LOST. TEAms FUCKING LOSE. and sometimes they lose to BAD teams.
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so what you're saying is that the best team doesn't always win a tournament. hmm.......very interesting.

would u say that's potentially amplified by what we might call an unfair tournament format?
 
A

Auteezy

Banned
NormalFish said:
When someone says "the better team" in light of a given tournament, they're typically referring to the bubble of that tournament. Whether or not they're actually "the best in the world", if a team lost at the tournament they're clearly not the better team by any metric that matters in the discussion of that tournament. I'm not even sure what you're point is honestly.
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2007 giants vs patriots. 18-0 pats arguably the best team ever in american football lost 1 game, the championship to a 10-6 regular season giants team. nobody will ever argue that those 2007 giants were a better team than those pats
 
G

gai_shain

Member
godelsmetric said:
so what you're saying is that the best team doesn't always win a tournament. hmm.......very interesting.

would u say that's potentially amplified by what we might call an unfair tournament format?
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nope that means they werent the best team at that tournament, they might still be the best team overall. Not sure whats so hard to understand about that
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
so by what metric are we deciding 'best team' if not by tournament wins? do we pick it based on whether we like their team logo?
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Auteezy said:
2007 giants vs patriots. 18-0 pats arguably the best team ever in american football lost 1 game, the championship to a 10-6 regular season giants team. nobody will ever argue that those 2007 giants were a better team than those pats
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That's in a very different format from Dota though lol. Never mind the fact I would have no issue saying the giants were he better team within that tournament because they clearly beat them. That said, I'm also completely indifferent to American football so perhaps that's relevant.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
godelsmetric said:
so by what metric are we deciding 'best team' if not by tournament wins? do we pick it based on whether we like their team logo?
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Well typically placings are a pretty good indicator, at least for top 3. But clearly you disagree. Like gaishain said, I can't think of a Dota tournament where I felt the best team didn't win.
 
A

Auteezy

Banned
NormalFish said:
That's in a very different format from Dota though lol. Never mind the fact I would have no issue saying the giants were he better team within that tournament because they clearly beat them. That said, I'm also completely indifferent to American football so perhaps that's relevant.
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trust me they did not clearly beat them. they got the flukiest luck of a catch from a practice squad call-up that's ever happened. and it was fucking great and awesome. Upsets are the best parts of watching sports. taht's why college sports is so great, so many upsets and uncertainties because the athletes are so young and mentally prone to fuckups.

david-tyree.strohmeyer.jpg


it's like saying to tell if a team is truely better than another every game should be played on equal rest when neitehr team has an injury at a neutral site. Formats are unfair. Deal with it
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
maybe 'best dota team in the world' is just a meaningless phrase, like 'the king of england is bald'. maybe there is only 'the best team at this tournament', 'the best team at that tournament', which is finally and inviolably decided by whoever wins the BO5 at the end of the tournament.....

this is all interesting research
 
A

Auteezy

Banned
godelsmetric said:
maybe 'best dota team in the world' is just a meaningless phrase, like 'the king of england is bald'. maybe there is only 'the best team at this tournament', 'the best team at that tournament', which is finally and inviolably decided by whoever wins the BO5 at the end of the tournament.....

this is all interesting research
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I'm saying this is NOT the case. The best team in a tournament doesn't always win. Sometimes they get upset when it really counts. Look at DAC secret or TI2 LGD they dominated the group stages, unbeatable. And then lose 1 series after not losing any games, and that's it. This is why I bring up the 2007 pats arguably the best team ever and unarguably top 5, even 3.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Auteezy said:
I'm saying this is NOT the case. The best team in a tournament doesn't always win. Sometimes they get upset when it really counts. Look at DAC secret or TI2 LGD they dominated the group stages, unbeatable. And then lose 1 series after not losing any games, and that's it. This is why I bring up the 2007 pats arguably the best team ever and unarguably top 5, even 3.
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i mean if you look at DAC the fact that VG 2-0d EG, who got knocked to LB, and then lost to them in the finals is a more egregious feature of that tournament
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Auteezy said:
trust me they did not clearly beat them. they got the flukiest luck of a catch from a practice squad call-up that's ever happened. and it was fucking great and awesome. Upsets are the best parts of watching sports. taht's why college sports is so great, so many upsets and uncertainties because the athletes are so young and mentally prone to fuckups.

http://www.sikids.com/sites/default/files/multimedia/photo_gallery/0906/nfl.moments.that.defined.2000s/images/david-tyree.strohmeyer.jpg [ /IMG]

it's like saying to tell if a team is truely better than another every game should be played on equal rest when neitehr team has an injury at a neutral site. Formats are unfair. Deal with it[/QUOTE]
Alright, that's fair enough. And that's why we have a best of 5 GF.
[quote="godelsmetric, post: 188134004"]maybe 'best dota team in the world' is just a meaningless phrase, like 'the king of england is bald'. maybe there is only 'the best team at this tournament', 'the best team at that tournament', which is finally and inviolably decided by whoever wins the BO5 at the end of the tournament.....

this is all interesting research[/QUOTE]
Yes. Because these things are totally impermanent. "The best team in the world" can change on an hourly basis based on hundreds of factors. Therefore, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to look at tournament results (which are clearly designed to determine the best team) because the vast majority of the time, they're strong indicators.
Click to expand...
 
M

M.D

Member
i think i hate seeing lina in pro games more than i hated playing vs techies in their reign of terror during last patch
 
T

Thagomizer

Member
Forced to roam support tiny, level 3 almost ten minutes in because i have to constantly TP in to to save Storm's stupid ass from dying to Alchemist. I still end the game highest level and net worth on my team.

Next game, going well, am 4-0 mid rubick and wrecking Viper. WK ports in as I'm getting a rune. We go on viper, who kills me, and gets away with 30 HP because WK decided to back out and just sit in the river out of aura range and watch. Meanwhile he has a stun the entire time and never uses it because ????

Said worthless idiot proceeds to flame me all game.

I don't get how people can play this game with their mashed potato brains.
 
T

Twookie

Member
can we just get the patch now pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 
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