Tinker
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Dota 2 |OT13| 6.86, our Pit Lord and savior
- Thread starter Hylian7
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i was going to say that maybe it's not a good matchup but he has one of the best matchups against OD according to dotabuff
shrug
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
i mean, carpet and laser gets him out of lane
rockets too
i dont know
just spam natures prophet and win like me
rockets too
i dont know
just spam natures prophet and win like me
Shuggananas
Banned
Just don't pick tinker he's a garbage can
Monochromaticx
Member
tin can
How the hell is that supposed to be a good matchup for him? That makes no sense. You can't keep him lasered forever.
These things cost mana...
he has good maneuverability/escape, he doesn't deal physical damage, he has good burst, he has good range...they're all pretty good counters for OD
You don't get much of your burst if just orbs you though. You actually have to make it to BoTs, and OD can shut that down. I feel like the only way to maybe win that is understand you lost it and stack the jungle.
So while I'm sure people don't want to hear much more about all this, James did post a follow up update Here
Summary shamelessly stolen from Reddit:
The bolded is interesting. Twitch is paying to fly James from China to the US, to talk about getting a caster's union up and running to prevent stuff like this from happening in the future. They're also paying to fly him back home afterwards.
Is there any chance we're going to get an actual response out of Valve or is "James is an ass" going to be the last we hear?
Summary shamelessly stolen from Reddit:
The bolded is interesting. Twitch is paying to fly James from China to the US, to talk about getting a caster's union up and running to prevent stuff like this from happening in the future. They're also paying to fly him back home afterwards.
Is there any chance we're going to get an actual response out of Valve or is "James is an ass" going to be the last we hear?
Dreams-Visions
Member
Nothing else needs to be said.
BoTs is 2k gold...it's not a huge investment. If you can't even reach that then you have more significant issues.
Against a hero that reduces your int (read: damage for Tinker)? He can definitely delay you for sure, and by that time the game is already lost.
In this one in particular I had to back off to the jungle and they even warded that, so I ended up the latest BoTs ever at 20 minutes (bought Soul Ring before). Having SB on the map wasn't helping either.
idk, i don't play tinker so i can't give you much beyond rudimentary theorycrafting. but tinker's best matchup is OD according to dotabuff (OD's worst is pugna). unless you think there's an extremely unlikely statistical fluke at play you're going to have to entertain the notion that tinker is actually good against OD and you could be playing the matchup wrong.
I'm just not seeing how Tinker should beat OD. Pugna beating him makes sense though.
i told you some of the reasons why it seems like a pretty good matchup for tinker. he also has pretty decent int gain and builds int items, so OD's ult isn't likely to be that good against him either.
try to find a replay of a good tinker beating an OD and watch it? idk what else to recommend.
Wok
Member
From what you wrote, it is clear you got outplayed in terms of team match-up. It is no so much about 1 vs 1.
OD's int steal is on the orb now instead of prison right? So being lasered all the time he's not going to have an easy time sapping Tinker's int.
Edit: Then again Tinker had a positive win rate on OD even before that change. Although it's only gone up since then.
Maybe, but I honestly felt like it was lost in laning phase. The other lanes didn't do great either.
3s blind on a 14s CD? He still has a ton of room between lasers. The blind time does scale up, but if you max laser, you are sabotaging yourself vs an OD I would think.
Edit: if anyone wants it: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2186834034
Shuggananas
Banned
Well OD can orbwalk and tinker can't, but laser should give a significant advantage anyway
Why are you even considering laser vs OD? No wonder you lose if you try to laser him. Not only it has a long animation, it has short range which leaves you open to auto-attacks (orbs) and astral. You are making his job easier.
In that match you maxed march first. Not the end of the world but hardly ideal against OD. You should max missiles asap. He can't stay in lane whit you constantly nuking him for 300 (?).
Bottle crow if needed, farm your BoTs and just shit on him. It's an easy matchup where Tinker is highly favored.
edit: he even did you a favor by maxing aura completely before getting more orb levels.
Captain Fish
Member
Just found out about the 2GD stuff this morning (was avoiding looking up stuff while I was going through VoDs and was confused why he disappeared). It's a huge bummer to me, the panels on day one were honestly both entertaining and pretty clever as someone who doesn't watch/retain that much competitive dota narrative. Swindlemelonzz's segment was actually amazing.
James statement was rambling because Gabe tried to establish that there was a history of difficulty. Although that has to be all hearsay from his part and we'll literally never hear from someone from Valve who actually worked with James . As for this event, I place most of the blame on the production failings (Valve's responsibility) since the panels had to be stretched so much. The EE stuff went pretty far, but I feel like the panel called him on the shittier parts of it.
Whatever, though. The matches were fun, I'll be happy to see more going forward.
James statement was rambling because Gabe tried to establish that there was a history of difficulty. Although that has to be all hearsay from his part and we'll literally never hear from someone from Valve who actually worked with James . As for this event, I place most of the blame on the production failings (Valve's responsibility) since the panels had to be stretched so much. The EE stuff went pretty far, but I feel like the panel called him on the shittier parts of it.
Whatever, though. The matches were fun, I'll be happy to see more going forward.
MurkyZebra2417
Member
I need help with Linkens/Weaver.
I decided I need to get back some lost MMR (~4200) and am focusing on Offlane with one of my favorite heroes Weaver.
I build Linkens pretty much every game and get sometimes flamed by my team (I am on a 6-game win Streak with weaver and always perform from decent to very good). And the issue is always that I should get a BKB instead.
That is something I am thinking about forever, why not just get a BKB?
Well, I try to argue with them an tell them that the issue for Weaver is getting jumped on, so I need the initial Spellbreak vs. Stun, Hex, etc.
Also Linkens has an amazing buildup for Weaver imho, the Health and Mana regen lets you stay on Lane pretty much forver and the Ultimate Orb is very good for Weaver because he can use all Stats to a certain degree. The last 1300 Gold to finish the Linkens is pretty obvious for me, because it lets me survive many initiation attempts on me.
I sometimes get a BKB after my first Damage item (Deso or MKB, depending on enemy lineup).
My all around Weaver build is -> Aquala, Threads/Ring of Health (depends), perseverance -> Linkens -> Dmg Item and from then on I improvise depending on the game.
My Skillbuild is 1-3-1-1 at lvl 6 and then I max sukuchi and Swarm first. Pretty much everybody undererstimates Swarm and I very often get First blood on Supports because of it. It is also devastating in early/midgame Teamfights imho.
Anything major wrong? Because I have to wonder, while winning the last 6 games with Weaver there was pretty much always someone complaining about something I did (Skillbuild/items etc.)
I decided I need to get back some lost MMR (~4200) and am focusing on Offlane with one of my favorite heroes Weaver.
I build Linkens pretty much every game and get sometimes flamed by my team (I am on a 6-game win Streak with weaver and always perform from decent to very good). And the issue is always that I should get a BKB instead.
That is something I am thinking about forever, why not just get a BKB?
Well, I try to argue with them an tell them that the issue for Weaver is getting jumped on, so I need the initial Spellbreak vs. Stun, Hex, etc.
Also Linkens has an amazing buildup for Weaver imho, the Health and Mana regen lets you stay on Lane pretty much forver and the Ultimate Orb is very good for Weaver because he can use all Stats to a certain degree. The last 1300 Gold to finish the Linkens is pretty obvious for me, because it lets me survive many initiation attempts on me.
I sometimes get a BKB after my first Damage item (Deso or MKB, depending on enemy lineup).
My all around Weaver build is -> Aquala, Threads/Ring of Health (depends), perseverance -> Linkens -> Dmg Item and from then on I improvise depending on the game.
My Skillbuild is 1-3-1-1 at lvl 6 and then I max sukuchi and Swarm first. Pretty much everybody undererstimates Swarm and I very often get First blood on Supports because of it. It is also devastating in early/midgame Teamfights imho.
Anything major wrong? Because I have to wonder, while winning the last 6 games with Weaver there was pretty much always someone complaining about something I did (Skillbuild/items etc.)
Shuggananas
Banned
Building the same thing every game without giving it a second thought, but that's about it
Linkens is good but it's not "build it every game" good, in some cases it's pretty fucking useless (if they have a lot of targetted disables or if they don't have any)
I like to go for early damage on weaver if I can, early deso or early maelstrom is pretty fun and helps finish the game really fast if your team allows it, but it can be dangerous. Linkens is overall a decent choice most of the time because it gives decent stats too, but it's not that cost efficient if you can't use the spellblock. With an early enough deso you can easily two shot (counting a gemini shot and hitting with sukuchi) supports, which doesn't give them enough time to react most of the time
Monochromaticx
Member
Your item build and skill build seem sound to me
Your teammates need to stfu.
Your teammates need to stfu.
MurkyZebra2417
Member
Yeah I sometimes feel bad for building the same pretty much every game, but it often seems the best choice. I hate the BKB buildup for Weaver and always have the feeling of just dying super fast without BKB or Linkens....
But yeah, maybe I should try some more builds, have to try Maelstorm soon!
Monochromaticx
Member
You can always go for support weaver with aghs build Kappa
MurkyZebra2417
Member
Shuggananas
Banned
with aghs and octarine I think you have his ult on a 15 seconds cooldown that's fucking ridiculous compared to dazzle or oracle
But his supporting kinda sucks with only the swarm being valuable
But his supporting kinda sucks with only the swarm being valuable
iron talon and swarm lvl 1, kill ur hard camp
its the fredj strat and it works rly well imo
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
I just started playing solo queue again last week after over a year of playing with the same stack.
Not following.
ok so catching up on this od vs tinker thing:
od loses to tinker in lane. Not only does tinker outrange od's attack range, but his laser outranges anything od can throw at him including astral. (astral is not a very impressive spell for lane control against another ranged hero)
However, od's power in pubs lies in his midgame, where he can quickly escalate out of control with just drums treads as he accumulates int and net worth due to his very snowbally nature. This is why while OD is in a good spot competitively, he is an absolute terror in pub matchmaking, and why he is most likely to get nerfed come next patch.
The arguments that 'the hero has its counters' is completely true with the presence of other meta heroes like enchantress, as well as strong heroes like nyx. However, they're both countered by the presence of omniknight (which is why omniknight is truly the most disgusting pub hero and how that hero hasnt been hammered is beyond me) and make it very hard for most teams to fight against OD.
Tinker flourishes when his team has someone else on it to draw attention and either create lockdown, or take lockdown so that the tinker is free to dish out damage. This generally doesn't happen against OD lineups because the OD can simply crush your team faster than tinker can spew out damage with his spells. Generally, tinker needs about 1-2 rearms in a teamfight to really shine, as the first salvo of laser missles in a teamfight doesn't turn the tides as much as, say, OD's ultimate.
Also, od's ultimate SHITS on tinker as it almost completely ooms him too.
tl;dr - tinker wins lane, loses the game
od loses to tinker in lane. Not only does tinker outrange od's attack range, but his laser outranges anything od can throw at him including astral. (astral is not a very impressive spell for lane control against another ranged hero)
However, od's power in pubs lies in his midgame, where he can quickly escalate out of control with just drums treads as he accumulates int and net worth due to his very snowbally nature. This is why while OD is in a good spot competitively, he is an absolute terror in pub matchmaking, and why he is most likely to get nerfed come next patch.
The arguments that 'the hero has its counters' is completely true with the presence of other meta heroes like enchantress, as well as strong heroes like nyx. However, they're both countered by the presence of omniknight (which is why omniknight is truly the most disgusting pub hero and how that hero hasnt been hammered is beyond me) and make it very hard for most teams to fight against OD.
Tinker flourishes when his team has someone else on it to draw attention and either create lockdown, or take lockdown so that the tinker is free to dish out damage. This generally doesn't happen against OD lineups because the OD can simply crush your team faster than tinker can spew out damage with his spells. Generally, tinker needs about 1-2 rearms in a teamfight to really shine, as the first salvo of laser missles in a teamfight doesn't turn the tides as much as, say, OD's ultimate.
Also, od's ultimate SHITS on tinker as it almost completely ooms him too.
tl;dr - tinker wins lane, loses the game
Dreams-Visions
Member
thx for insight, 109
*takes notes*
*takes notes*
Shuggananas
Banned
73 for shipping to france, damn
Will buy next year probably if it takes off, rather buy a Pascal this year
Will buy next year probably if it takes off, rather buy a Pascal this year
Monochromaticx
Member
$799.00
no thanks
no thanks
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
£746 hashahahaha
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Yeah, this was definitely an issue, thanks. I kept debating trying to save it for a ult-stun gank, but never seemed to find a good time for it early on barring a haste/invis rune.
Yep, tempo was a major issue. Blink woulda definitely helped w/ early capitalization on ganks into towers.
He definitely had a few 'keep farming while the enemy team 5-mans T2' moments, lol Especially considering ember lategame shits on PL illusions, not to mention no BKB vs the other teams silencer/jakiro/invoker cc.
Thanks for the advice, at any rate. Will hopefully get that 15k damage in at some point here.
109, is Void going to be nerfed next patch, y/n
I am not 1.09 but I imagine the health you regain when you time walk and the length of time spells cooldowns are stopped for with his second skill will go down. Other than that he seems pretty balanced imo.
Monochromaticx
Member
definitely. he's the only player who said he will do more regular videos/guides whatever and stuck to it
(lookin at you aui1!!)
So for that net worth quest, I either need to successfully rush a midas on someone or figure out how to play Alchemist right? I've had a few games now where I feel like I couldn't do much better and still came up short. Sometimes my GPM will end up above the threshold by the end of the game but hitting it at the 25 min mark is tough.
he makes no money on the videos either so he can use whatever music he wants too
gives the impression that he isn't doing vids just for the sake of getting money but for the fans, i like!
NormalFish
Banned
VR is DoA why do people even bother
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