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Dota 2 |OT2| Ellen Pudge starring in Beyond Two Throws

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K

Ketch

Member
So what's a good build for the new axe?

Can you disassemble vanguard?

I was thinking like treads, vanguard, linkens, blademail, aghs? What about blood stone? Could go for a quick bloodstone (he does have a really strong early game) and then disassemble the vanguard to make linkens.

You really just want to stay alive along enough with enough mana to spam culling blade to win team fights.

I feel like he's secretly super super good now... do you guys think he could be a big pro pick? Like seriously, one good RP or black hole and axe drops a big quadruple dunk? How is this not a thing that is happening?
 
K

Ketch

Member
Hazaro said:
I don't think I've had a single good game of CD with GAF.

DB

Enigma was 1st pick and they had 4 stuns + Venge to cancel that out + a Manta user and CK for more illusions.

Poor team fights due to Mirana Ult and me not being able to do much since they stayed spread out. We had a tower advantage, but once we lost 2 team fights mid-late it was over.

We could have won if he had gotten some better engagements, but the BKBs just ripped us and needing wards + sentries for vision felt like a giant change. WD or Enig just got silenced or Lina instagibbed them.
Click to expand...

We have definitely played a good CD together... I just can't remember when.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
gxNJXe8.jpg
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Take my money.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Ketch said:
So what's a good build for the new axe?
Click to expand...

same as old axe. nothing has changed. if you can get a vanguard before 12 minutes, do so. then get your blink dagger and tank it up based on what the team needs. If nobody else can build a pipe, do so. If someone can, get a heart then ac (or visa versa). Something like that.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Hazaro said:
See above post by me.
Lesson learned. Not sure why our WD had a Shadow Blade though.
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Its...functional. You can activate shadow blade while channelling without breaking the channel, so it can stop the enemy from interrupting you (same reason people sometimes build it on Crystal Maiden). Its so situational that I'd say its even being situational is situational though.
 
K

Kreunt

Banned
Ketch said:
So what's a good build for the new axe?

Can you disassemble vanguard?

I was thinking like treads, vanguard, linkens, blademail, aghs? What about blood stone? Could go for a quick bloodstone (he does have a really strong early game) and then disassemble the vanguard to make linkens.
Click to expand...

treads, vanguard, aghs, abyssal.
i haven't actually played new axe yet.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
ElyrionX said:
Haha. That is awesome. I assume you were in a 5 stack?
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Nope. I was solo queue. Riki was like, "goin dagon...", then his friend in his party was like, "goin dagon too"...I was like, welp...if we're gonna lose doin stupid shit, I mine as well have fun doing it too. So in the end everyone went dagon.

We called it, "The laser-light spectacular". The other team was getting pretty mad getting assploded over and over again.

ElyrionX said:
Also, I see you are an Invoker player. Does it make sense to buy Dagon on Quas Exort build?
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Hmm.

I'm not sure if there's ever an appropriate time to buy a Dagon on Invoker. It's more of a disrespect purchase more than anything else. If you're in a position to buy a dagon on heroes that aren't supposed to buy one, it's because (a) you don't care if you win or lose or (b) you expect to faceroll.

So to that end, you can buy it on whichever Invoker skill build you go with. But like on any hero, the name of the game is to get it fast because it loses its effectiveness the later you buy it. Exort invoker is the most logical candidate since that skill build is the most likely to get the gold up fast enough with kills and cs.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
The Technomancer said:
Its...functional. You can activate shadow blade while channelling without breaking the channel, so it can stop the enemy from interrupting you (same reason people sometimes build it on Crystal Maiden). Its so situational that I'd say its even being situational is situational though.
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Oh. Neat. I figured anything would break channeling and I knew casting broke invis.
 
A

Aaron

Member
Speaking of force staff, Does it count as moving for bloodseeker's ult? I was playing a game where I kept getting ulted, would stand in place blasting off whatever I could, and a teammate would fs me away for me to die instantly. Though I could have been dying from something else in all the confusion.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
ElyrionX said:
Force Staff doesn't break channeling? So you can TP scroll and then Force Staff away while casting the scroll?
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Force Staffing yourself or someone else will break it (since it's a non-windwalk action), but Force Staffing someone else in their TP won't. I remember there was a pro game where a Wisp Force Staff'd a CK as he was TPing out and it made sure he got away.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
ElyrionX said:
Force Staff doesn't break channeling? So you can TP scroll and then Force Staff away while casting the scroll?
Click to expand...

Misremembered. It doesn't break other people's channeling but it counts as an "action" so it'll break your own channeling.
 
N

NBtoaster

Member
Lots of bloodseekers like to rush force staff for the 100 or so extra damage it gives to rupture, but they should really rush euls, so they can stop TPs. And it fits better with new racecar bs.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I just go straight damage, attack speed and basher/MKB on Seeker. The damage you can dish out while being under lvl4 Blood Rage is quite high. You still silence the supports but against heroes who can actually right click you want to Rage yourself.

They should honestly rework Blood Rage again. I feel that it should work like Death Coil in that it should have a different property on enemies versus allies. Allies get damage boost, no damage over time... enemies get damage over time no damage boost. Damage over time gets higher with each skill level.

Meh the hero is still kinda bad. I feel on crazy global strat teams he can do a lot of damage but in traditional games he is still filled with weaknesses. I would imagine that you would do something like Zeus ulti into NP ulti to get someone below half health so you can scout them then get Wisp plus Seeker to port to the revealed hero to kill them off. The visual you get on low heroes is honestly the best thing about the hero.
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
Dahbomb said:
I just go straight damage, attack speed and basher/MKB on Seeker. The damage you can dish out while being under lvl4 Blood Rage is quite high. You still silence the supports but against heroes who can actually right click you want to Rage yourself.

They should honestly rework Blood Rage again. I feel that it should work like Death Coil in that it should have a different property on enemies versus allies. Allies get damage boost, no damage over time... enemies get damage over time no damage boost. Damage over time gets higher with each skill level.

Meh the hero is still kinda bad. I feel on crazy global strat teams he can do a lot of damage but in traditional games he is still filled with weaknesses. I would imagine that you would do something like Zeus ulti into NP ulti to get someone below half health so you can scout them then get Wisp plus Seeker to port to the revealed hero to kill them off. The visual you get on low heroes is honestly the best thing about the hero.
Click to expand...

Two words. Sun. Strike.

One match I managed to get two kills on heroes who were well on their way to base.
 
P

Pureauthor

Member
ViviOggi said:
Idk this Midas crap seems so easy to counter

༼ ᕤ$◡$ ༽ᕤ MIDAS HIM!
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The whole point in 6.78 was that the 1 or 2 carries get Midas and rely on the other teammates to cover the slack for the longer time you weren't contributing.

When EVERYONE goes Midas your entire team gets a neutered midgame, and you get RSnake vs LGD.int.
 
Z

Zeknurn

Member
nin1000 said:
well i thought something similar to last years special with the greevil eggs and the Winter special following right after that
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The greevil eggs were part of the Frostivus event.

Diretide which started on the 30th was about stealing candies from the enemy stash.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
ViviOggi said:
Idk this Midas crap seems so easy to counter

༼ ᕤ$◡$ ༽ᕤ MIDAS HIM!
Click to expand...
Merlini did a mailbag episode on it this week and he made some really good points.

In a 4 protect 1 type of game, it's worth getting on supports, even if it is at 15 minutes. Hell even if you are the "1" in these games, getting it late is still good since the plan is to be in this for the long haul. As the game goes on, it becomes more and more valuable. If the other team tries to be too aggressive to punish it, they could make mistakes, and fall even further behind due to the Midases.

Since Medusa is the most obvious 4 protect 1 hero, I think it should always be picked up on her, even if it gets delayed. This is my reasoning behind that:

1. She offers almost nothing to a fight without significant farm. If your farm is already so terrible that you wouldn't be able to have it by minute 12, then you have probably already lost the game anyway, so there is no reason not to get it in an effort to catch up. If things go on long enough, you can catch up, fight successfully, and win.

2. You get attack speed from it. While this is not the reason you buy it, it is 30 attack speed which is nothing to gawk at. This helps in any fights you might be in early on.

3. Say you have lost all your T1 and T2's, but now the enemy is having trouble getting uphill to break the T3's. If you have a Midas and are able to hold out, what is happening? Creeps keep coming to your tower, you farm them and Midas every cooldown. This can effectively make up for stacks and things of that nature.

As wonky as this Midas meta is, I think they are onto something. Like Merlini said, there isn't really a hard limit (e.g. 7 minutes) on when you should have it by. I can definitely see myself picking it up more often in some situations.
 
N

nin1000

Banned
Zeknurn said:
The greevil eggs were part of the Frostivus event.

Diretide which started on the 30th was about stealing candies from the enemy stash.
Click to expand...

yep, sorry got confused as they were all pretty close together. had a Lot of fun stealing candies and giving some to roshan.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
Hylian7 said:
Merlini did a mailbag episode on it this week and he made some really good points.

In a 4 protect 1 type of game, it's worth getting on supports, even if it is at 15 minutes. Hell even if you are the "1" in these games, getting it late is still good since the plan is to be in this for the long haul. As the game goes on, it becomes more and more valuable. If the other team tries to be too aggressive to punish it, they could make mistakes, and fall even further behind due to the Midases.

Since Medusa is the most obvious 4 protect 1 hero, I think it should always be picked up on her, even if it gets delayed. This is my reasoning behind that:

1. She offers almost nothing to a fight without significant farm. If your farm is already so terrible that you wouldn't be able to have it by minute 12, then you have probably already lost the game anyway, so there is no reason not to get it in an effort to catch up. If things go on long enough, you can catch up, fight successfully, and win.

2. You get attack speed from it. While this is not the reason you buy it, it is 30 attack speed which is nothing to gawk at. This helps in any fights you might be in early on.

3. Say you have lost all your T1 and T2's, but now the enemy is having trouble getting uphill to break the T3's. If you have a Midas and are able to hold out, what is happening? Creeps keep coming to your tower, you farm them and Midas every cooldown. This can effectively make up for stacks and things of that nature.

As wonky as this Midas meta is, I think they are onto something. Like Merlini said, there isn't really a hard limit (e.g. 7 minutes) on when you should have it by. I can definitely see myself picking it up more often in some situations.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree. Regarding (several) supports picking it up though there's a very thin line between securing your lategame win and the 4 not being able to protect the 1 long enough, making it more risky than it sounds in your post. For case 3. to happen you'll also need a specifically strong base-defending lineup, making the strat even more situational effective. Lastly I haven't done the math but I feel that having 2 jungles, 2-3 lanes and Rosh at your disposal balances out even 3+ Midases.

I guess in the end the good teams at least are experimenting more than anything right now, trying to see how far they can go etc., and not seeing it as an universally valid strat (yet).
 
M

M.D

Member
Man, Sven can bepretty boring but he can also be stupid fun.
People always underestimate how strong you actually are and end up dieing ;p

I've gone Midas the last few games I played him and it always ended up paying off.
I just get Midas and Power Treads which gives you pretty great attack speed and helps you with the Mana, then go for the bigger items.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
What the hell is this LGD team. Prophet, Alchemist, and Spectre?

Hylian7 said:
Merlini did a mailbag episode on it this week and he made some really good points.
Click to expand...

This reminds me, has no one told Merlini that his presentations are awful? You aren't supposed to make a slide show, then just read it back to people.
 
I

I H8 Memes

Member
ViviOggi said:
Idk this Midas crap seems so easy to counter

༼ ᕤ$◡$ ༽ᕤ MIDAS HIM!
Click to expand...

Saw a Luna with Midas last night. She got wrecked. Right when she should have been coming on strong early mid game she still didnt have ultimate orb of manta style because she went midas over helm/lifesteal so she could jungle/flash farm. Those really good early farming heroes have to be the dumbest heroes to put a Midas on.
 
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