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Dota 2 |OT2| Ellen Pudge starring in Beyond Two Throws

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H

Hylian7

Member
Nymerio said:
I've had a NP like that in a game recently. Got teleport as his first skill, went to my lane autoattacked creeps then ported to dire jungle and cliff farmed there. The other team's DP saw him and killed him, I would've been ok with it if he had learned anything from that, but he just ported to the same cliff and died again. When he had 1400 gold on the side I thought he was going midas but he went dagon instead. fml.
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I would rather have a Sniper on my team than a cliff jungling Prophet. On the rare occasions I see one on the other team I just kill him over and over again. He begins to panic up there.
 
manfestival

manfestival

Member
MrChocolate said:
This exact thing happened yesterday on a game were I used Doom. Fuck it was really annoying.

Thanks for the advice btw.
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Its really frustrating if you have a solo lane and the enemy has 2 in that lane. They will usually send their second to check jungle and usually get 1 kill out of me from that but I eventually outfarm and gank them. So it plays itself out eventually for me
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
1.09 said:
i'm too high off this weednog but i'm grinding through solo ranked. its awful
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It's really the worst shit. I've still to lose a lane and i've lost like 25 games on 35. So many people have no idea of what lane matchups are.

EDIT: as i say it i go and feed with ember in lanes twice in a row while i rage against the world after a game where my mid went afk during our crucial fights. Time to go to the gym.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Hylian7 said:
When you get lucky and get a team that communicates.
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Even then, half of those who communicate are doing it in another language.

Of the remaining half, half of them you wish weren't communicating at all because they're weird or hurling insults.

This is all before analyzing the odds that you get a proper team comp with wards and couriers.

Really, solo queue is by and large a horrible experience. I go with at least one. Minimum. If I'm desperate to play and nobody is on, I'm more likely to switch accounts entirely.
 
Wok

Wok

Member
I don't exactly know what happened but I play with experienced noobs: they have as many games as I but they feed all the time. I suspect it is due to my loss streak with Legion Commander: I am now in the bottom bracket, for sure.
 
P

PillowKnight

Member
Hylian7 said:
He's still a shitty hero if you sneeze at him.
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Sneeze is meele range ain't it. The only shitty thing about sniper is people blaming the hero for their losses and people who buy treads on him.

Edit: Literally had a team blame my sniper random for losing the game after I won my lane more or less 1v1 and was 3/1/3 10 min in, so ridiculous.
 
B

BeesEight

Member
rugioh said:
I thought Midas was core on him? If you shouldnt rush midas what should you be getting instead?
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Well, like I said, I believe the hero's strength is in his flexibility. So it's important to gauge your team's capabilities and the enemies. A fast mek if you're looking for early fights and tower pressure. Midas if they're passive and you're looking at a farm war. Necro and shadowblade if you're going to be on hard split push duty etc...

The thing with Midas is when you purchase it, you're basically saying "I'm going to be useless for the next fifteen minutes!" It doesn't offer you anything outside a marginal attack speed increase so unless you can really get a lot of mileage out of smart plays/positioning and capitalizing on their mistakes then I think it's really only a good pick up if you're going to have a long, passive early game. And frankly, I don't trust random pubbers/my own friends to be able to hold off five man aggression without my hero being able to contribute something more significant to a fight.

But adaptation is the name of the game. He's not really a hero that you say "I'm going to get X,Y,Z on him every game."

Nymerio said:
I've had a NP like that in a game recently. Got teleport as his first skill, went to my lane autoattacked creeps then ported to dire jungle and cliff farmed there. The other team's DP saw him and killed him, I would've been ok with it if he had learned anything from that, but he just ported to the same cliff and died again. When he had 1400 gold on the side I thought he was going midas but he went dagon instead. fml.
Click to expand...

Oh right, I forgot the patented dagon first prophet. Ugh, I hate pub NPs so much.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
PillowKnight said:
Sneeze is meele range ain't it. The only shitty thing about sniper is people blaming the hero for their losses and people who buy treads on him.

Edit: Literally had a team blame my sniper random for losing the game after I won my lane more or less 1v1 and was 3/1/3 10 min in, so ridiculous.
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but becuz sniper it's sniper.

Artanisix said:
Fight me in ranked mm again you piece of shit i will bring the wrath king to ur doorstep
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*pops popcorn*
 
F

F!ReW!Re

Member
rugioh said:
I can't play any of those heroes yet.. but I'm trying to figure out which ones to learn next.
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I posted this in the last Dota 2 thread, it's a quick run down of some items + tips and tricks for Nature's Prophet (Jungling):

Item Build:
**************
Start with either:

Ring of Basilius + 2 Clarity potions
OR
Gloves of haste + 2 Clarity potions. I dislike using this build, but it does help get midas up faster.

I've only used the 2nd build a couple of times. It allows you to get Midas up faster, but with the RoB you can stay in the jungle for longer and deal with tougher creep camps (and early tower pushes) because of the armor aura and the mana regen it provides.
The armor aura allows your treants to tank up more damage (useful for tougher creepcamps + tower pushes) and the mana regen allows you to stay in jungle longer cause you can use Nature's call more often before having to tp back to base.

I normally rush Midas on him first, then get some brown boots.
From that point on it REALLY depends on the enemy line up / your farm / how the game is going on what kind of items to get.
I'll present you with a couple different options:

Carry/pusher
This is probably my main build seeing as people really underestimate the damage prophet can dish out and you can literally melt towers/buildings with these items.
I've won my team a decent amount of games just split pushing / backdoor'ing while the enemy 5 man team was trying to push down our base.
In the shit tier I am in, half of the people forget to get tp's late game (seeing as they 6 slotted their items) so normally only 1 or 2 people TP back to defend but you should be able to handle those on your own.
Else just tp back to base and help defend (the attackers are now 1 or 2 players down so it's 5vs4 or 5v3 in your advantage).

1. Shadowblade - In my eyes this is a must have for every game where you want to do some solo split pushing or ganking. Prophet does have a build-in escape, but his default running speed (even with boots/threads) is pretty shit.
The extra speed + invisibility will allow you to get the F out of dodge when the shit hits the fan (It even allows you to walk through other units).
Not to mention that the additional damage + attack speed complements this carry/pusher build. Don't forget that if you hit someone while invisible you gain 150 bonus damage.
And the biggest selling point: You can TP while staying invisible, this also works with just the shadow amulet component (that's why I always pick up that component first).
I even pick this up when BH,Slardar, and SB are on the enemy team, because even if they can see you, the additional movement speed will save your ass in a lot of situations.
Shadowblade is a must, the rest of the following items can be picked up in whatever order you prefer.
Just a side note: Lately I've stopped getting shadow blade every game and tried out some other first item options (after midas):
- Necronomicon - Great versus invis heroes and amazing for the extra pushing power it provides
- Sheepstick - Because your such a great farmer, you get to pick this up REALLY early and when a teamfight breaks out or when you get ganked it'll be the difference between getting a kill or being killed.
- Mekanism - Great if you have a teamfight line up. You've got the mana pool to use it every time it goes off of cooldown.
- Maelstrom into Mjolnir (Pure farming build)

- Desolator - Like melting faces? Get this badboy and watch those solo enemy heroes run like their lunch money just got stolen. Especially those weak supports will melt + Good luck getting away when sprouted.
Provides 60 damage and removes 7 armor for 15 seconds....

- Assault Cuirass - Always a good idea to hit fast and hit hard. Really useful in teamfights (before building this item, make sure no one else is getting it) because combined with other right click items and a Daedalus you will be a one man wrecking-crew.
What's not to like about +35 attack speed, +10 armor, attack speed and armor aura's + an armor reduction aura for the enemy team.

- Crystalys into Daedalus - Want to be that one hit wonder that takes out enemies like they are lane-creeps?
Get this in combination with another right click item like Deso/MKB/AC and even Dragon Kid melts like a snow-cone when you start laying the smack down.
Can you say 1000+ crits?

- Maelstrom into Mjolnir - Wonder what the P stands for in NP? Profit
Especially once you get mjolnir this will let you farm those creep waves / camps / enemy heroes even faster.
Picking this up when your farm has stagnated a bit can bring you right back into the farming game.
I usually forgo this item for something like AC because that also provide you with the additional attack speed and it has those awesome Aura's

The following items are also good for a carry/pusher build, but I rarely get them seeing as I've had a lot of success with the items mentioned above;
- MBK
- Butterfly
- Skadi
- Dagon (I never ever get this even though I see a lot of prophets going for it. I just don't see the point, waste of money imo)
- BKB - I don't get it a lot since I mostly use hex/orchid to silence the enemy and if I need to get out or dodge I use shadow blade.
- Etcetera (stuff like heart, satanic and abyssal are all options but I've never actually gotten any of those)

Disable/support/utility
- Mekanism - If your team is low on support heroes, getting a Mek is your responsiblity, seeing as you can manage to use it all the time because of your big mana pool and you can tp in to save people with this badboy.
And ofcourse the number 1 reason to get this: It's great to keep your teammates alive during a teamfight.

- Scythe of Vyse - This item can actually be build in any situation seeing as the mana regen is amazing and Hex can be used as either a ganking tool or means for getting out of pesky situation like a failed gank or getting caught while pushing a tower.
I personally prefer this item over an Orchid.

- Orchid Malevolence - Same story as with the Scythe of Vyse, this item can be build in all of the different roles that prophet can fulfill.
The mana regen is great, the attack speed increase + soul burn ability are great additions for a gank build or to be able to tp out freely (seeing as the silence is 5 seconds).

- Shiva's Guard - Great team fighting / chasing item.
Tp'ing into a fight, deploying the slow and sprouting some people will keep the enemy team busy while the rest of your team lays down the ass-whoopin'

More items that can be useful;
- Force staff - if shadow blade is not an option, or you need more maneuverability (great for moving in and sprouting an enemy)
- Necronomicon (great for extra pushing power, and the true sight is awesome against invis heroes like brood/riki/weaver/bh/mirana/etc)
- Aghanim's Scepter - Can be useful in some situations; if you expect you'll have problems with split pushing on your own (strong enemy gank lineup, like SB, BH, Slark, etcetera) or if the enemy team has some good split pushing heroes themselves.
Pop your ult halfway through or at the end of a teamfight and see those kills roll in. TBH I haven't picked this item up in ages since I find that it doesn't really add anything substantial and it's kind of a waste of a slot.
- Maybe pipe, drums, vlads and urn are options, but I've never used those on prophet.


Skill build
**************
Most of the times I go for the following build;

1. Nature's Call
2. TP
3. Nature's Call
4. Sprout (at this point you are ready to join the lanes for some ganks, it's possible to do that even earlier, but the sprout basically ensures your team the kill since it'll take the enemy a second to realise they can't get out or use their quelling blade (check their items before tp'ing in and setting up the gank).
Another tip: Enemy mid heroes rarely go for a quelling blade, so I suggest trying to go for a gank mid first if the situation arises (overextending or low health)
5. Nature's Call
6. Ulti - (watch the map when using this, it can net you some easy kills when enemies are fleeing a fight in one of the lanes)

From that point on I max TP over Nature's Call over Ulti, since 1 level of sprout is enough anyway and having that TP mobility up is a crucial element in your skill build.
Instead of maxing Sprout, just get stats.

Jungle start:
- Summon treants at 50-45 secs before the start of the match.
- Have each treant walk to a different rune spot to scout out/deny runes.
- Resummon the treants at 00:01 - 00:05 (make sure you leave the base with full mana)
- Walk to easy camp and start clearing it at 00:30. If you're lucky; you can clear it and have it respawn at 1:00 or just pull the camp at 0:53 and take out the stack with 4 treants (the 2 summoned at spawn and a new summon at easy camp)
- I either go and check out the other camps (only the Ursa bears are something I avoid at level 1 nature's call, the rest are fair game with another resummon of treants)
- Then just farm up in the jungle (maybe help stack the pull camp for save lane)
- Keep an eye out for tp opportunities to gank or save a teammate

General observations/tips:

- LOOK AT THE MINI MAP!! I can't stress this enough. This is like an ability you need to train and it's vital for prophet.
# See a rune spawn and you can secure it for your mid or steal it from the enemy? TP IN
# See an enemy hero on low health or he's overextended? PING/CHAT --> TP IN
# Enemy team charging up to your tower? SPLITPUSH
# Your own teammate overextended? TP, SPROUT AND SAVE THE DAY
# SPLITPUSH SPLITPUSH SPLITPUSH
# See the enemy courier dropping items? TP in half way and snipe it!
# When jungling or pushing use your treants to scout the area around you, you only need 1 or 2 treants to tank for you and the other 3 should be spread out to scout out ganks (or pull incoming creepwaves)

- Make sure to bring a TP scroll
Use your TP skill to split push, gank, snipe a courier, etcetera and use that TP scroll to jump out or tp to another lane.

When TP'ing from the fountain to a location on the map; I usually IMMEDIATELY use nature's call or other spells I need, because the fountain regen lingers for about 2 seconds after TP'ing (like a normal TP scoll). Basically giving you a nature's call for about 40 mana instead of 160...

- Sprout is one of the most underestimated spells in the game. It can save teammates, hold enemies in place, block off ramps, setup nature's call in a places where there are no trees in the immediate area.
Some sneaky tips:
# Enemy Faceless Void time walks in and chronospheres one or more teammates? Get in there and sprout him.
Even if he's already laying into a teammate, sprout will actually push him back and he's not able to attack your teammate. You won't believe how many times I've saved people from a 4 man chronosphere.
# Getting ganked and you don't have shadowblade or force staff and you need get out ASAP but the enemy is closing in?
Double tab sprout and immediately double tab teleport to get back to base. Sprout blocks vision, so most enemies can't do shit while you TP out to safety.
Level 1 sprout is just long enough to allow you to tp out without enemies seeing you. Quelling blade and other items/skills that remove sprout can ruin this for you though, but it's better to try it than just give up and die.
# Wanna Solo roshan? Even though your still squishy as hell? Sprout him, nature's call and you've got 5 little tree shields to tank up his damage.

- I don't care what people tell you; CLIFF FARMING SUCKS
It's gonna severely hamper your farm-rate, not to mention making you susceptible to early ganks and your TP will probably be on cool down, so you're not able to help the lanes out with a gank or a save.

- Wrath of Nature (Ulti) - It's damage increases with every bounce, so in order to inflict the maximum amount of damage deploy it on the opposite side of the map (near the enemy creeps). It's useful in a lot of different situations;
# Use your ult for split pushing (look at the minimap and make sure the enemy creeps on the lanes are visible to do the max damage)
# Enemy hero on low hp and running from your teammates? Drop that ult on the other side of the map so that the damage increases from the number of bounces.
# 3 Enemies planning to dive a lane? Ult up and see them hesitate or even retreat instead of tower diving your teammates. This sounds stupid, but a lot of people seem to realize your team has vision of them and that you (the prophet) might tp in to help your teammates.
Click to expand...
 
K

KingKong

Member
Wow there have been only 2 Governors Salakots crafted on Winter Sale, I'd expect a bunch more once there have been enough community votes for people to craft a globe but still, that thing might end up as one of the rarest Dota 2 items (though they'll probably add a crafting recipe for the non-genuine version)
 
D

Demoli

Member
KingKong said:
Wow there have been only 2 Governors Salakots crafted on Winter Sale, I'd expect a bunch more once there have been enough community votes for people to craft a globe but still, that thing might end up as one of the rarest Dota 2 items (though they'll probably add a crafting recipe for the non-genuine version)
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I believe you can already get it trough random drops, it's the genuine version thats rare.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
KingKong said:
Wow there have been only 2 Governors Salakots crafted on Winter Sale, I'd expect a bunch more once there have been enough community votes for people to craft a globe but still, that thing might end up as one of the rarest Dota 2 items (though they'll probably add a crafting recipe for the non-genuine version)
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It's like 35 bucks on the steam market and it will only go down unless they remove it from drops.

If you believe it's going to be rare, my advice would be to buy them up now and go to town.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
KingKong said:
Wow there have been only 2 Governors Salakots crafted on Winter Sale, I'd expect a bunch more once there have been enough community votes for people to craft a globe but still, that thing might end up as one of the rarest Dota 2 items (though they'll probably add a crafting recipe for the non-genuine version)
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You can get a Cursed one no problem.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
# When jungling or pushing use your treants to scout the area around you, you only need 1 or 2 treants to tank for you and the other 3 should be spread out to scout out ganks (or pull incoming creepwaves)
Click to expand...
This strat while seems like common knowledge or maybe not that important but this little thing won you guys the match in our Mid tier GAF tournament.

Couldn't gank that NP or set up anything in their jungle because these Treants would be spread everywhere.
 
F

F!ReW!Re

Member
Dahbomb said:
This strat while seems like common knowledge or maybe not that important but this little thing won you guys the match in our Mid tier GAF tournament.

Couldn't gank that NP or set up anything in their jungle because these Treants would be spread everywhere.
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Yeah thing is though, this may be common knowledge but I don't see a lot of NP's doing this. They just keep all of em bunched up together pushing the lane and then act surprised when they get ganked.
That's also where the map awareness part comes along, you need to keep constant tabs on the enemy hero location. 1 or 2 missing and you are split pushing, yeah they're coming for you alright!
 
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