manfestival
Member
was that a gaf stack?
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Dota 2 |OT3| #BetterThenEllenPudge
- Thread starter Artanisix
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was that a gaf stack?
Are you playing with the Chinese client?
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
i have another idea its called "ham of mingus" and it comes with 1 charge which lets you devour an enemy hero for 1900 gold and 2.5x experience
look at that scoreboard my team was all peruvians obviously
Sad to say, but Disraptor, Brewmaster, Necro, WK and Lich do about as well as you would think...
FFS people, don't NOT pick anyone until 3 seconds left and then pick supports after we already have one. I should just fucking random from this point, odds are the team will end up with a better composition.
FFS people, don't NOT pick anyone until 3 seconds left and then pick supports after we already have one. I should just fucking random from this point, odds are the team will end up with a better composition.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Don't play AP if you don't want to whine about people's picks.
Well I'm not playing Captain's anything. The game already takes too fucking long to get started for me as it is.
Give me ranked Random Draft or Single draft and I'll never play another AP game in my life.
2 supports, I feel, is most optimal. 1 hard support and one semi-support.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
how come people don't buy armlet on lycan. armlet + vlad + ult would be good, no?
Because you could have Necrobook 1 for 100g more, and Necrobook 3 if you already have Necrobook 1.
Jex
Member
You don't really want to have a team with only one support. You aren't going to get wards/sentries/dust and mek/forcestaff etc out of a single player.
Preach it, why volvo doesn't add those modes in MMR is beyond comprehension.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
You obviously haven't seen my (good) support games m8!
Game isn't really balanced for RD or SD. Whether people make shitty picks or not in AP is their own prerogative but the end result still reflects their overall skill level. Whereas RD and SD comes with an inherent element of randomness that doesn't jive with the idea of "competitiveness", "ranked" or "ladder".
Might as well put AD and AR in Ranked as well if you wanted to go that route. AP's inclusion in Ranked is already, as far as I can tell, a concession on Valve's part to make the mode somewhat accessible since most people have no clue how to play CM, but ideally only CM would be allowed since the game is being balanced for CM.
Might as well put AD and AR in Ranked as well if you wanted to go that route. AP's inclusion in Ranked is already, as far as I can tell, a concession on Valve's part to make the mode somewhat accessible since most people have no clue how to play CM, but ideally only CM would be allowed since the game is being balanced for CM.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
i disagree about cm being balanced for the average game. the thing about cm is that you can pick almost any hero and almost any strategy but you don't really know how people in your team play any of the heroes you're picking, as well as what the enemies can actually play. it makes the bans much less effective, as well as forcing you to pick what people ask for instead of coming up with good strategies, or having to pay the price and risk having people playing heroes they are terrible with
with cd, the strategies are much more limited, so you can actually somewhat ban depending on the heroes, and since the options are smaller, people can't demand heroes and generally speaking, the players are more accepting. kinda like the people playing ar are up for anything most of the time
imo ranked should've been rd (with cm hero pool) cd and ar (preferably cm pool). i guess you have to leave cm for the super tryhard people but it really doesn't work well without parties or the top players who know what each other play or are up to play almost anything anytime
and as for ar, the heroes are just another random factor, when you already have people's moods and the lanes and a bunch of other shit that makes everything unpredictable anyway. it's true the team compositions can be terrible, but the same applies in ap. you can't really salvage a bad game with one pick, most of the time. which is also why i think people saying "pick a a carry/mid if you want to win solo" is annoying because then you have people only wanting to play core roles and failing pretty hard because they're bad carries/mid/whatever
there's also the fact that people want to play cm and pick whatever is fotm without knowing how to use it well or distorting it into lineups where it doesn't fit
this patch at least is playable on ap since there aren't that many imbalanced heroes besides slardar. the previous patch was just terrible though. and iirc the one before had sb and huskar raping people every game
with cd, the strategies are much more limited, so you can actually somewhat ban depending on the heroes, and since the options are smaller, people can't demand heroes and generally speaking, the players are more accepting. kinda like the people playing ar are up for anything most of the time
imo ranked should've been rd (with cm hero pool) cd and ar (preferably cm pool). i guess you have to leave cm for the super tryhard people but it really doesn't work well without parties or the top players who know what each other play or are up to play almost anything anytime
and as for ar, the heroes are just another random factor, when you already have people's moods and the lanes and a bunch of other shit that makes everything unpredictable anyway. it's true the team compositions can be terrible, but the same applies in ap. you can't really salvage a bad game with one pick, most of the time. which is also why i think people saying "pick a a carry/mid if you want to win solo" is annoying because then you have people only wanting to play core roles and failing pretty hard because they're bad carries/mid/whatever
there's also the fact that people want to play cm and pick whatever is fotm without knowing how to use it well or distorting it into lineups where it doesn't fit
this patch at least is playable on ap since there aren't that many imbalanced heroes besides slardar. the previous patch was just terrible though. and iirc the one before had sb and huskar raping people every game
Captain Fish
Member
10 game win streak over. It was undeserved anyway cause I've been playing super poorly.
I'm just saying I'd rather have a carry buying a forcestaff than my silly raptor needing to build Dagon 5 to get any burst damage on our team
a DIRTY DIRTY racecar DP game cleanses the palate though.
Head of Vengarl
Banned
Flappy Dota is still infuriating.
I can't beat my high score of 6
*EDIT: FUCK YES I GOT 10! I GOT A MEDAL!
*EDIT 2: AND 12 A COUPLE TRIES LATER!
I can't beat my high score of 6
*EDIT: FUCK YES I GOT 10! I GOT A MEDAL!
*EDIT 2: AND 12 A COUPLE TRIES LATER!
I wanted to write a long post about this but I'm too lazy so here's the short version.
1) Ranked matchmaking is DOTA2's tryhard mode. Diluting it with any other unbalanced gamemode defeats the point of Ranked. Your teammates suck? Too bad. Ranked's job isn't to hold your hand while you watch a number climb up until you can feel good about yourself. It's there to separate the wheat from the chafe.
2) What you want, considering your advocacy of non-cm, non-ap modes and use of "tryhard" is a visible or privately visible MMR for unranked matchmaking.
While I'm not in any way opposed to the second, don't try to turn the first into something it's not meant to be, or expect an experience from it that was never promised in the first place.
fck that necrobook is so last year, it's all about AC + Deso
I also think they should add RD and SD to ranked, hell, even AR. People can choose to put their MMR on the line in these modes or not, more options is better than less in this case IMO. I don't buy the argument that RD and SD are inherently imbalanced and so don't fit into "ranked tryhard mode" because AP and CD are equally imbalanced and are included. It's already diluted. Competitively, the game is most balanced around CM and only CM like you say. If you enjoy ranked CM (not speaking directly to you haly, just using you here for people in general), the option is there for you.
Some of us enjoy the thrill of other ranked modes, hell AR, RD, and SD were most of hongaf's go to modes in HoN ranked (though SD had the ability to swap... which it should in dota 2), and I'd love to play ranked RD and AR when I want my matchmaking fix (as opposed to being forced into unranked).
http://dotabuff.com/matches/496022971
When was your last real Lycan game anbokr?
Result: Lost match
Lobby Type: Ranked Matchmaking
Game Mode: Captains Mode
Region: US West
Duration: 36:08
Played: 2 months ago
Result: Lost match
Lobby Type: Normal Matchmaking
Game Mode: Random Draft
Region: US East
Duration: 34:01
Played: 4 months ago
Green Biker Dude
Banned
i like ranked and i think the numbers should be visible (public even). but your argument is/was "it's only balanced for cm", except that doesn't apply for the 99% of the people playing the game. it's only balanced for cm for 1% of the players.
this is, again, people saying 99% of the player base should settle for less because the game should be made for 1% of the players. yeah no. that's dumb. it's dumb from a design standpoint, it's dumb from the perspective of a player and it's dumb as in an opinion, because it's elitist as fuck. might as well as remove the option of using voice in game since professional teams can use skype or whatever. who cares about the other players. they suck
the game isn't balanced for cm for 99% of the players, so there is no harm letting them play competitive in other modes (outside splitting the player base, which is a legit problem). and those modes are more balanced for the majority of the players anyway, so it would actually improve ranked
I haven't played much matchmaking in general the last couple months, busy with school and the only time I dota is to inhouse pretty much. I've tried the AC + deso rush build (no medallion even) a few times in IH and it's worked beautifully (ask ksan and demoli
, but of course that's IH. Doesn't mean I can't speak my thoughts though, and after the fairly harsh necro nerf I don't feel it's always the best choice on lycan (as opposed to last patch). AC + Deso (hell AC alone) give you similar pushing power plus a lot more teamfight capability and late game carry potential IMO. Of course necro is still great if you're crushing and just want to end the game quickly, as it's always been, but in tighter games I don't think it's the best choice.No, it still applies. If you can't cut it in CM it means you're bad. It's not the mode that's at fault. It's because you or the people you play with simply are not good. AP already exists if you want to play a less serious ranked but apparently it's too inconsistent, so what you want to do is introduce more randomness until everything is so inconsistent it cancels out how bad everyone is.
No competitive game in the world caters to the largest common denominator, I don't know why you expect this from Ranked matchmaking. Like I said, you want a visible MMR for what are really, and I hate to use this term, Casual games. And I have no problem with this. But don't project it onto a system that clearly expects its players to play at their best, even if their best is not all that much.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
ok humor me here. suppose i am bad. how does that change the fact that 1) cm is not balanced for me and the other 99% people playing the game and 2) how does that invalidate me wanting other modes for ranked and 3) how should that stop other people from playing other modes which are actually more fair for them
your argument is akin to judging all cultures by the same values
let me put it another way, why do you think 99% of the people should play a game mode that isn't balanced for them
I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat this. CM is not more unfair for you anymore than any other mode is. If you cannot captain, or play a wide variety of roles, or draft and counter draft good strategies, then you probably shouldn't play CM. OR, if you insist on playing CM, then you need to realize that your drafting/adaptability/captaining skills are being compared to that of everyone else who plays CM and whatever result you get is "fair", because it's always relative. If the only people who played CM were tryhard/pro 5 stacks, Merlinistack would probably be a thousand or two below Dendi's Navistack, and it would still be "fair".
And in any case, you're free to play AP if you can't cut it in CM. That's what it's there for. That's why Valve put it in. They already figured that most players (the 99%) don't want, can't or won't play CM.
Because you're trying to turn it into something it isn't or is not meant to be. If you're going to go against the design of the game I mean, go ahead, be my guest. But it is not realistic or practical so why waste energy voicing these complaints?
You're trying to compensate for your low MMR by playing a mode that forces your teammates into particular roles/heroes so you don't need to care about them, as variables, in your mission to increase your win rate and MMR.
Do you know what this?
This isn't "fair". This is actually as close as you can get to actively sabotaging "fairness" within the context of matchmaking.
SteveWinwood
Member
haly i noticed you still judge all cultures by the same values
why is that
why is that
Green Biker Dude
Banned
your excuse for cm being balanced is that the same thing applies to everyone. then the same goes for any other mode out there, even the ones i'm proposing. you can't have the cake and eat it. either the game is always balanced because everyone is subject to the same rules or it isn't. which is it?
how is ar any less balanced than cm then? everyone randoms heroes. they all come from the same pool. it's fair, no?
how is ar any less balanced than cm then? everyone randoms heroes. they all come from the same pool. it's fair, no?
Your definition of "balanced" boils down to "how easily will my team be able to wreck my game?".
My definition of "balanced" comes down to what Icefrog is paying attention to when creating balance patches.
You're talking about player experience. Using "balance" and "fairness" everywhere in your arguments doesn't change that, in the end, you're frustrated by your teammates and want them to go away.
My definition of "balanced" comes down to what Icefrog is paying attention to when creating balance patches.
You're talking about player experience. Using "balance" and "fairness" everywhere in your arguments doesn't change that, in the end, you're frustrated by your teammates and want them to go away.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
your definition of balance applies to 1% of the playerbase. i've already said why that is dumb, so this is going in circles
i like how the arguments are always the same: "your opinion on game modes / features / balance is not valid because you are bad"
i like how the arguments are always the same: "your opinion on game modes / features / balance is not valid because you are bad"
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Ultimately when you minimize your teammate's ability to have their play performance hurt the game then you also nerf their ability to have their play performance seriously help the game. The solution is on the human end, the current restricted modes are just workarounds because there's no optimal way to align people based on skill, playstyle, etc
SteveWinwood
Member
You didn't really say why, you just said that it was. Multiple times. You said why it was dumb to hold the opinion that it is because that's "elitist".
Green Biker Dude
Banned
so you think heroes shouldn't be banned in cm/cd? because that limits what the teams can do when they play
Is that why Drow's 6.74's win rate was in the 40s, which suddenly shot up to the 50s in 6.76, then back down to sub-50% levels in 6.77, and is now back to 50%+ in 6.78 and 6.79?
Because of her overwhelming popularity among the "1% of the playerbase"?
Get real. The balance changes affect everyone, pubs included. Or do I have to hunt down numbers for PL, Treant, Death Prophet and Huskar as well?
Green Biker Dude
Banned
icefrog sometimes balances heroes because of people's complaints, like him nerfing kotl + pl a while ago. or broodmother, which wasn't even in cm
that doesn't change the fact that what you defend is that the game should be balanced for 1% of the people playing it
i've never said valve/icefrog balances it *exclusively* (keyword here) for the 1%. but many of the posters here express that opinion, which is one of the things i am against
either way i'm done here. i've said what i wanted to, and you've already posted, more than once even, the typical response these arguments always have in these threads
also, i'm not really complaining about balance in this patch in general. i think the is the best patch since whenever it was that huskar was reworked (6.78 or something like that), even though my initial reaction to it was somewhat negative. that doesn't change anything i've said about cm though
that doesn't change the fact that what you defend is that the game should be balanced for 1% of the people playing it
i've never said valve/icefrog balances it *exclusively* (keyword here) for the 1%. but many of the posters here express that opinion, which is one of the things i am against
either way i'm done here. i've said what i wanted to, and you've already posted, more than once even, the typical response these arguments always have in these threads
also, i'm not really complaining about balance in this patch in general. i think the is the best patch since whenever it was that huskar was reworked (6.78 or something like that), even though my initial reaction to it was somewhat negative. that doesn't change anything i've said about cm though
You should go play League, and I'm saying this both sardonically and seriously because Riot does things like this:
Now you can just queue up for "mid or feed" and laugh as the filthy DOTA peasants fight over it forever.
Now you can just queue up for "mid or feed" and laugh as the filthy DOTA peasants fight over it forever.
Balance is a property of the game, not of yourself, and everyone is playing the same game hence it must be balanced for everyone if it's balanced for anyone. I'm not quite sure what's so hard to understand about this. You seem to be confused because you are using balanced as some loose synonym for fair, balanced does not mean fair.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
i'll say one thing, it always amazes me how these discussions end up the same way. always
it must be because of the dota culture and how people have always discussed this game
a: b you made a mistake
b: no i didn't
a: yes you suck i'm better than you
b: 1v1 me mid
aka your opinion is invalid because you are bad. tvtropes should have its on page on this separated from right by might
edit: ok i'm really done now i have to sleep
it must be because of the dota culture and how people have always discussed this game
a: b you made a mistake
b: no i didn't
a: yes you suck i'm better than you
b: 1v1 me mid
aka your opinion is invalid because you are bad. tvtropes should have its on page on this separated from right by might
edit: ok i'm really done now i have to sleep
Stronghammer22
Member
That team composition looks fine to me--it could be a lot worse. As for having no more than one support, what? Being the lone support sucks so hard. No one cares that you've spent 90% of your gold on wards and detection, that you're stuck with brown boots and a wand 20 minutes into the game. If someone else could shoulder the burden just a little, it would be much, much better, but no, everyone wants to carry.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, I just did a quick mental tally and nothing came up.
League's constantly trying stuff to get more people in as is dota, and in general most esports game do have to cater to larger crowds if they want to sell. If you wanna say that they don't do so with respect to balance changes, I guess that's fine and I won't dispute you on that, but your wording was weird.
We were up against a POTM, Drow, Riki, PA and Razor when they made their picks... Team composition NOT OK
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