Sniper isn't shit, he's totally underestimated by everyone.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dota 2 |OT3| #BetterThenEllenPudge
- Thread starter Artanisix
- Start date
- Status
Sniper isn't shit, he's totally underestimated by everyone.
Imp the Dimp
Member
What would your top 10 look like? I think they're all rightfully on my list.
This is totally not the case.
neurosisxeno
Member
He's a good pubstomp hero, but outside of that he's pretty awful.
1. Broodmother***
2. Huskar*
3. Ogre Magi+
4. Drow***
5. Meepo***
6. Phantom Assassin++
7. Sniper***
8. Witch Doctor*
9. Bloodseeker*
10. Medusa**
* - Too Easy To Counter
** - To Slow To Farm
*** - Both
+ - Too Random
++ - Random and Farming Problems
I'd say this list is pretty accurate. I'm sure there's someone else that's also weak I'm not thinking of. There's two heroes in particular on there I want to talk about.
1. Broodmother: Random buff idea for her: Put things back to how they were in 6.79...except the going off the map thing. I think the worst part about dealing with her in 6.79 was not her walking into trees, but her literally walking off the map where even Timbersaw couldn't get to her. If you pick smart against her, and are prepared to deal with her (casual Quelling Blade anyone?), I think she would be balanced and viable as well.
2. Meepo. I'm not sure where IceFrog is going with that hero, and I love Meepo. I feel like this giving him his ulti early isn't really doing too much for him. You hit level 3, and yay, you have a second Meepo...who only has one or two points in Poof. Since the easy camp is the pull camp, he can't really farm jungle camps solo at early levels like that. On top of that your supports really need the xp from the pull camp, so he shouldn't suck that up either. The vision reduction in 6.79 was also a huge hit for him. Honestly I think they should just bring back the 30% non-Agha stat sharing. That hero needs help, and that would be plenty fair for him. Aghanim's still gives 100%, you still are going to want to buy it. The 6.79 Tranquil Boots nerf also hit him hard, since even with that you could farm other camps and just tranq up to farm them some more. Now your only options with the second Meepo are either to just stack camps, or gank. The latter is very difficult as you are very easy to kill if something goes slightly wrong.
Prophet Steve
Member
I thought you could set it so that you don't get the new map in the matchmaking settings? Never tried it, since I do like the new map, even when the fireworks can be a bit annoying.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Said it before they buffer the wrong thing with brood. Her spiderlings should be like a little tanky army once you build it up. Thye y should recover health on webs or have an aura where the more spiderlings there are the more health they have.
Necro and Brood are the only heroes that are total dog shit, rest are closer to fine that dog shit.
Yes, I have an irrational hatred for running necro, I just think it has always been an awful hero.
No, it's an insult to the competitive community, the game mode isn't even remotely serious, and no fun tournament should ever be allowed.
Yes, I have an irrational hatred for running necro, I just think it has always been an awful hero.
No, it's an insult to the competitive community, the game mode isn't even remotely serious, and no fun tournament should ever be allowed.
I'm super-hyped, hoping for fun hero pools that force weird picks
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I have no idea, don't play that plop spider.
Just buff the army, forget her movement, she only has to leg it because shes so weak.
Stronghammer22
Member
It's the first ticket I've purchased since MLG, so yes, I'm definitely looking forward to it. Hopefully some of the normally overlooked heroes get a run.
Imp the Dimp
Member
How is Undying not considered ass these days? He completely falls off after laning stage and the first team fight about 10-12 minutes into the game. He can also feed an Alch, Bristle or Gyro rich with his Tombstone.
I think we're all talking about different things here;
Are we talking heroes in general (as in everyone on here / pub level) or are we talking pro-level (as in [A] versus Na'vi)?
Because that quite changes the game.
If in general (pub level) I would say only 3 heroes are total ass;
- Medusa
- Brood
- Earth Shaker
If we're talking about pro-level I would concur with the list posted earlier;
And I was deadly serious that on a general/pub level Sniper is under appreciated.
I'm looking really looking forward to some unusual line-ups and picks!
surely you meant best mid
Imp the Dimp
Member
What's does Earthshaker have to do with anything? He's fine in pubs and in comp.
Based on what? When's the last time you've seen a Sniper not feeding? I don't recall mine.
Meepo's new respawn time is so fucking dumb.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/527396707
At level 25 w/ buyback death he had like 60 second respawn time. Only reason they won. Oh well, was fun either way.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/527396707
At level 25 w/ buyback death he had like 60 second respawn time. Only reason they won. Oh well, was fun either way.
he has a skill that gives him attack speed, he's obviously a carry
Nirvana
Member
As a Meepo player, what is the best way to control group them? I've seen Merlini say to individually control group each Meepo, but this seems ridiculous once you have 5 Meepos and others have said to simply have your main on one control group and the others on a second, with a third for all of your Meepos; the issue here is that I find you don't have enough control and are constantly spamming tab to get anything done.
Obviously I'm horrible with micro, as my 6/18 game with Meepo would attest to, but even playing him in bot games I just find that once you have 4 or more it becomes pretty impossible to utilise all of your Meepos without them all just dying.
Are you supposed to just farm like crazy until you are basically unkillable and then go into fights, because I found I was getting focused super hard, since 5 squishy targets seem to be an easy way to earn free gold.
It just seems like there are too many ways to counter the hero. AOE, single target burst, slows, stuns, high DPS and without the option for BKB he is just too susceptible to any kind of magic damage throughout the entire game.
Woops, that typo, Earth Spirit, not shaker :-S
And sniper?
I've been checking out that solo offlaning strat (reddit) which seems to be actually valid on a pub level (tried it and it's both fun and works out pretty well)
I've seen people running threads --> armlet --> mom --> blink --> crystalis --> daedalus (I think I saw TxSwift run this a few times as well)
and absolutely destroying in a pub game.
People underestimate the auto attack range, the ult and his damage output once he gets a few items up.
Sure he's got the same problem as drow that when you have heroes against you who can close the distance rapidly, you're kind of fucked but that would make him a situational pick up, not a bad hero IMO.
1 main meepo 2 rest of the meepos 3 all meepos, is probably the most reasonable way.
Then box for the rest of the control. You might be out of luck or need a lot of practice if you haven't played RTS games at a decent level.
What you should do is probably rush agha blink and then dotaownage.
Nirvana
Member
Yeah, it's going to be a long road...
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Man I swear people underestimate his damage output from the start of the game. 40% chance to proc headshot my ass
Yeah I've ran the solo offlane sniper a couple of times (didn't always work out but still) and once you get a few points in range and headshot you can basically bully the enemies out of lane. This hero is all about positioning and map awareness.
Too bad the general consensus is that he's a cheap hero for bad players and that he's just right clicking and doesn't require a lot of skill. I think the skill comes from the positioning and being able to use that insane range to your advantage.
He's got the same thing going for him as with pugna's ult:
You see someone running up to you and you start laying into them. Half-way through they realise you do a fuckton of damage and turn around and run. Most of the times they can't even get out of your attack range and if they do you ult and destroy them anyway.
Schweinehund
Member
Worst heroes from in AP solo view:
1. Bloodseeker
2. Riki
3. Ogre
4. Omni
5. Meepo
6. PA
7. Ember
8. Drow
9. Io
10. Lc
Not saying these heroes can't win games or aren't viable in some lineups, but 99% of the time they're dragging your team down. Some heroes are more viable in lower skilled games (BS/Riki/Drow). Meepo is really odd in that people love to counter him, you'd think people in general would counter pick, but they seem to do moreso against meepo.
Haven't really seen too many Earth Spirits post nerf, so I don't know where he sits. I still would like to experiment with WK more, I think he can be laned other than safelane and be successful. Beastmaster, Troll, Huskar, are borderline useful. AA is secret OP, except 99% of people are still maxing frozen feet first instead of Icy Touch.
1. Bloodseeker
2. Riki
3. Ogre
4. Omni
5. Meepo
6. PA
7. Ember
8. Drow
9. Io
10. Lc
Not saying these heroes can't win games or aren't viable in some lineups, but 99% of the time they're dragging your team down. Some heroes are more viable in lower skilled games (BS/Riki/Drow). Meepo is really odd in that people love to counter him, you'd think people in general would counter pick, but they seem to do moreso against meepo.
Haven't really seen too many Earth Spirits post nerf, so I don't know where he sits. I still would like to experiment with WK more, I think he can be laned other than safelane and be successful. Beastmaster, Troll, Huskar, are borderline useful. AA is secret OP, except 99% of people are still maxing frozen feet first instead of Icy Touch.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Wraith King is honestly pretty good in pubs. Unless you get counter picked (Anti Mage, Spectre, PL and such), you can be a huge annoyance.
So this is basically another type of list with the heroes that people fail at most of the time because they have a hard time winning with these heroes in an uncoordinated team? I don't agree with all of them, but Io is definitely the prime example of; no coordination/communication = lost game.
I've been playing around more with Ember lately and although he's squishy; he's so damn fun to play and can be "almost" unkillable if you keep jumping out of engagements you're about to lose with his ult. He's VERY item depend though, but his high base movement speed and his ult really make him fall in a category of high mobility glass cannon heroes.
I love that the flame shield blocks an amazing amount of magic damage and that you can dodge a shit ton of spells with sleight of fists...
Captain Fish
Member
I feel like these lists are just lists of heroes that people misuse. I've seen sniper mid a bunch, for example, and he's such obvious gank bait that he can't win there. That doesn't mean he's a weak hero. So often I click people who are doing poorly on my team and they have such poor ability build choices, you can't use them as a metric for if the hero is good or bad.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I think Brood's still pretty strong in pub games. I can usually get into vlads and then manta relatively quickly and start stomping the offlane. I feel PA's more tricky because you need to have a strong support and people seem to go fucking nuts if you don't get BF with her for some reason.
I'm not a brood player myself tbh so can't comment on that, but I feel she's easily shut down as with all invis heroes (especially after the nerf).
I don't understand the general consensus that PA needs support tbh, she used to be a viable solo offlaner, being able to farm by using dagger.
Did this somehow change? Sure she's had some nerfs and she's not considered a proper hard carry any more but I still think she can be as useful as other semi-carries.
Brood's never that effective because you essentially are telegraphing where you are invis with webs. There's no real maneuvering options compared to BH or Riki. Even in pub games people get wards. Your only hope is that you lane against an idiot who lets you get some free kills first.
call_kotaku
Member
Is there a reason people keep wanting to report someone for playing badly? The only time I've encountered someone purposely throwing a game is 2 Russians that lost their lane and then decided to sit in the fountain buying couriers to feed to the other team, but that's the only time I've ever saw fit to report someone for feeding.
Sure there's a lot more variance in skill level at the lowest and highest MMR brackets just by the nature of how that sort of system works, but reporting someone that's theoretically near your skill level for playing badly in a game doesn't really do anything (like raise your MMR) to prevent that sort of thing stops happening in the future, and I don't see how sending somebody to low priority solves anything.
Sure there's a lot more variance in skill level at the lowest and highest MMR brackets just by the nature of how that sort of system works, but reporting someone that's theoretically near your skill level for playing badly in a game doesn't really do anything (like raise your MMR) to prevent that sort of thing stops happening in the future, and I don't see how sending somebody to low priority solves anything.
manfestival
Member
funn1k and n0tail = pretty entertaining dota 2. Even with sing on
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
This is quite possibly why I always have a good time with brood. As long as I turtle and last hit with my Q I always get leveled enough to get some kills and snowball into a life leeching beast. When I get PA I always get put with a support to competes for last hits and doesn't ward/pull/harass.
Fair enough. I shouldn't talk too much since I'm currently obliterating people in unranked with Luna while I try to get to Lvl 13.
ScottSullivan
Member
I couldn't disagree more about Undying. Sure you could argue that his abilities themselves fall off some late game, but just his mere prescence as a giant tank attracts nukes that don't do anything to him, and he increases everyone else's damage in a team fight, along with being able to save someone with his heal nuke.
And if you're going support with him, just the ability to survive to deliver those heals/mek/pipe, scythe, whatever you've got is huge.
No other Support has the survivability he does and it makes a big difference in the middle of the mayhem
And if you're going support with him, just the ability to survive to deliver those heals/mek/pipe, scythe, whatever you've got is huge.
No other Support has the survivability he does and it makes a big difference in the middle of the mayhem
Can't help it, Sing sing is my favorite streamer.
I think the average player needs a support with PA or they will just feed badly but its true that you can do okay offlane solo. If you have a good ward and don't lane against two ranged stuns you'll do okay. Worst case scenario you can glimpse to creeps to get away fast from them.
BFury delays PA too much like 99% of the times.
While I don't think BF helps her team fight potential all that much, even if you get it late (which is almost always the case with her unlike AM where you can get it quick), it helps to build her late game items faster.
Even a super late 20-25 min BF with her can bring you back into the game as you can quickly farm up your BKB and start fighting with the team.
There is virtually zero situations where she is gonna be useful without the bkb or left alone long enough to farm her Bfury, BKB etc etc. I just don't see the point of her getting her late farming item when she can be up and running way earlier and help out. Especially considering the current meta which punishes afk farming a lot.
Costs 2 rares on D2L
- Status