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Dota 2 |OT3| #BetterThenEllenPudge

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L

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
I once played with a South American Pudge that rocked. He and I (on Disraptor) roamed most of the early game creating space and providing kills for our three carries. He didn't speak a word of English. Like, really, not a single word yet we were able to coordinate ganks with pings item (smoke) notifications and stuff. Seriously one of the most fun solo ranked games I've played:

http://dotabuff.com/matches/525571857
 
T

Telephoto999

Member
Boken said:
you are a piece of work.
he posts a completely rational post that is actually trying to help you and you diminish it by turning it into 'blah blah'

then you want a dick measuring contest
Click to expand...

Haha. Asking to compare because he's mentioned multiple times he is "much higher mmr" is a dick measuring contest? I am the one who started it? wut?

You need to calm down buddy. It's just a game.
 
B

Boken

Banned
Thacker said:
Did you even look at the actual Dota Buff for the match?

http://dotabuff.com/matches/547384886

8 of my deaths on Luna were because we got fountain dove consistently. I actually had the highest GPM and XPM on my team and the third least deaths. I've never had a legit game in which I played that bad.

Please look at the match history or even go watch the replay to figure out what happened.
Click to expand...

Thacker said:
I picked Luna. Rest of the team picked after me. Jugg came safelane with me, trolled lane while spamming "jajajaja" and took all the last hits he could I rotated mid and let pudge gank but I couldn't compete with morphling that was level 6 to my new level 4. I fed. I tried to get drums up and help support but the match was well lost.
Click to expand...

when i feed i make excuses
when sniper feeds, its because hes peruvian
 
T

Telephoto999

Member
R

Razzer

Member
I doubt you'd agree to this Thacker, but if you want to realize what your mmr means play Gafhouses. I went into my first one thinking yeah I'm not as good as them but my mechanics are sound enough at the basics that I can not feed...





It was a humbling experience. Stacking with the better players as Oddmorsel pointed out is also good for learning about small things, I was playing with Demoli, Samvines, Trykser and G.ZZZ a while back and every game I learned new things. I feel it accelerated my improvement greatly.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Thacker said:
Haha. Asking to compare because he's mentioned multiple times he is "much higher mmr" is a dick measuring contest? I am the one who started it? wut?

You need to calm down buddy. It's just a game.
Click to expand...

Dude I only mention my MMR because it's a language you understand. Your argument seems to be centered around how you're stuck in the 3k's because there are too many South Americans in that bracket and they're preventing you from getting out. You say how Hylian is a "solid 4k player." It's clear to me that MMR has some meaning to you, so I brought up mine to tell you from experience that the amount of foreigners in higher MMR brackets doesn't change and that people of all nationalities have varied skill levels. It was never meant to be a pissing contest, at least not in MMR but I'd certainly claim that I have a better attitude toward the game than you. You want to compare your profile with mine but I don't see the value in that, so I'd rather not post it.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Thacker said:
Not a single one of those matches you posted, was a game that was even close. We lost every lane and got facerolled against much better / coordinated teams. What point are you trying to even make?
Click to expand...

You're not half as good as you think you are.

It's fine that you're not good. Most people aren't. I'm shit at this game. Most people in this thread are as well. That's okay. It's a hard and complicated game.

But not every game is everyone else's fault. You come in here and complain about the 4 other *insert nationality here* while you suck at the same time. I'm sorry to break this to you but you're most likely at the right mmr tier. The not so great at the game tier. I'm not saying the system is perfect, of course there can be improvement, there can always be improvement. As you get better, you'll be in better matches. Full stop. So work on getting better, and then you can focus on your team later because then, guess what, they won't be a huge issue anymore.

Thacker said:
Out of curiosity. How much higher of a MMR does 1000 more games net you over me? 4.5? 5k?
Click to expand...

His 1000 matches only gets him a more accurate of a reflection of his mmr. You understand that right?
 
T

Telephoto999

Member
OddMorsel said:
Dude I only mention my MMR because it's a language you understand. Your argument seems to be centered around how you're stuck in the 3k's because there are too many South Americans in that bracket and they're preventing you from getting out. You say how Hylian is a "solid 4k player." It's clear to me that MMR has some meaning to you, so I brought up mine to tell you from experience that the amount of foreigners in higher MMR brackets doesn't change and that people of all nationalities have varied skill levels. It was never meant to be a pissing contest, at least not in MMR but I'd certainly claim that I have a better attitude toward the game than you. You want to compare your profile with mine but I don't see the value in that, so I'd rather not post it.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity. How much higher of a MMR does 1000 more games net you over me? 4.5? 5k?
 
K

Kard8p3

Member
Razzer said:
I doubt you'd agree to this Thacker, but if you want to realize what your mmr means play Gafhouses. I went into my first one thinking yeah I'm not as good as them but my mechanics are sound enough at the basics that I can not feed...





It was a humbling experience. Stacking with the better players as Oddmorsel pointed out is also good for learning about small things, I was playing with Demoli, Samvines, Trykser and G.ZZZ a while back and every game I learned new things. I feel it accelerated my improvement greatly.
Click to expand...

Word.

Or pay bokr $99 so he can teach u the ways of ember.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
I've said before I don't think an all-out region lock is the solution, but there definitely still is a problem. However it's MUCH better than it used to be.

The main reason for this is the chat wheel. Bad players will be bad players, whether they are Russian, Peruvian, American, Brazilian, or all of those mixed together. I have played with plenty of non-English speakers and won, and how did I communicate with them? Because they used the chat wheel and I could too. That thing translates the phrases in the respective language they are playing in. It's quite useful.

Now, the problem isn't 100% solved because there are still plenty of people that don't use the chat wheel. Maybe there should be a reminder on the loading screen about the chat wheel, or maybe there could be a phrase for the chat wheel that says something like "Use chat wheel please (Hold Y)".

That said, I do think the matchmaking is a little strange sometimes. Take this example.

BMx2Ov5.png


http://dotabuff.com/matches/548633390

Ignoring everything else about the game. I want to focus on only two things: The Pudge (me) and the Sand King that went 0/11/2. Now, he added me to his friends list, because apparently he muted, and wanted to trade for my Dragonclaw Hook. I refused that deal, but he said "gg, you were a good pudge" and told me that apparently he was solo queueing, and now around 2k MMR. I was partied with yarden24 and the Sand King told me something about dropping over the last day from 3k to 2k MMR. My party MMR was around 3900 at the time. Now, that's a HUGE gap of skill, assuming MMR is accurate at all... The entire game I saw him making some very questionable decisions.
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
Thacker said:
The type of bandwagon jump on one person behavior exhibited in this thread in the same thing that causes four to gang on one in the game usually.
"omg report sniper sniper n00b"

"omg ursa feed report ursa ursa n00b"


He called me out for having a 50% winrate with Luna? After like 20 matches with her? Really?

http://dotabuff.com/players/11158475

The rest of my DotaBuff shows I am exactly where I should be. Even compared to someone like Hylian on here who is a solid 4k player, most of my stats on average are higher than his in farm and KD and win ratio. I am a mid 3k MMR player that can't for the life of me get out of the 3k's. Is it always my teams fault? No. But I know when actions I've done have caused the team to lose. Not farming buyback on Natures prophet and trying to push at inopportune times caused me two losses last week in 60+ minute games. Feeding offlane timber twice against a terrorblade by not respecting his slow cost me another.

However, the amount of absolute dumb shit I see from my team on a consistent basis is not to be ignored either. It seems to happen over and over. Winnable games become completely unwinnable by some random person trolling or just playing completely out of their mmr bracket.

Take this game I played earlier today.

NcXRD9C.jpg


Peruvians Sniper feeds 0-11 in the safelane. I can show numerous other examples of this happening. No matter how bad I play, I've never played THAT bad. Whether you guys admit it or not, Solo skill matters... but team composition and the ability for a team to actually coordinate something matters much much more. Not being able to even communicate with my team because they are peruvian.. russian.. or whatever else has cost me sooo many games that were winnable by something as simple as a coordinated smoke gank.... taking rosh at the right time or simply backing off the pressure and defending.

Does this happen to everyone? I am sure it does. Does it happen to some more than others? I am sure it does as well. I typically play in the day and early mornings when there are less americans on.. and more peruvians etc. I tend to get matched with them more on average than some of you might so I can see why I have more of a problem than some of you do. I noticed tonight that in 5 games most all of my team spoke english and the matches were of a higher quality (won a few, lost a few) but I am sure when I get up tomorrow and get a few games in I'll be matched with more south americans.

The MMR system in this game is extremely flawed compared to something like what is found in LoL or Starcraft. I love this game... but for you guys to blindly defend the region locking and MMR choices valve has made so far is hilarious but expected. You're defensive of what you like, it's human nature.
Click to expand...

How about those games that you've won because you're playing against those very same people who fed when they're on your team? Ever had a game fail at the connecting screen because someone did not connect and to see in your next game what are mostly the same people from the previous game but just shuffled a bit in terms of team composition?

I had one guy in one of my games who played really poorly on my team and was a huge reason for us losing. Next game, he was in the other team. He picked a different hero and absolutely owned faces. It's just like you having 13-1 and 0-8 games as Luna in the same day. People play differently across games due to many factors. Even pros get stomped all the time.

Like many have said here, you would improve more when you focus on your own mistakes instead of others.
 
T

Telephoto999

Member
SteveWinwood said:
You're not half as good as you think you are.

It's fine that you're not good.
Click to expand...

Am I a 6k player? No. Am I a 5k player? No. Am I a solid 4 to 4.5 player? Yes. I should be ranked higher than what I am, period. For the amount of time I've played and the games I've played I'm already higher than average at 3.5k, but I should definitely be higher. I am sure there are plenty like me just as I am sure there are many (probably some in this thread) that are ranked far higher than they actually should be. The MMR system is completely flawed, and I am sure before the life of Dota 2 ends we will see major changes to this system (as already evidenced by their changes in the survey system at the end of the matches)


Fact.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Thacker said:
Out of curiosity. How much higher of a MMR does 1000 more games net you over me? 4.5? 5k?
Click to expand...

Not sure if I understand the question. You get MMR by beating players who have higher MMR than you it's not an equation of input matches output MMR. Like I said earlier there are people in this thread who are much better than me and I think they've played the game quite a bit less. Everyone has their own trajectory for how they improve. It's more about what you do with the experience you get, not how much of it you have (though I imagine there is kind of a soft cap where experience is valuable in a quantifiable sense).
 
K

Kreunt

Banned
Thacker said:
Am I a 6k player? No. Am I a 5k player? No. Am I a solid 4 to 4.5 player? Yes. I should be ranked higher than what I am, period. For the amount of time I've played and the games I've played I'm already higher than average at 3.5k, but I should definitely be higher. I am sure there are plenty like me just as I am sure there are many (probably some in this thread) that are ranked far higher than they actually should be. The MMR system is completely flawed, and I am sure before the life of Dota 2 ends we will see major changes to this system (as already evidenced by their changes in the survey system at the end of the matches)


Fact.
Click to expand...

or you're just not as good as you think you are.
 
Nirvana

Nirvana

Member
Thacker said:
It was a simple request, you can call me out on mine but I can't look at yours to compare?

I mean that's cool. Like I said, simple request. You are in your own right to deny.
Click to expand...

I play at about the same MMR as you (3.6k) and your arrogance is mystifying. The idea that your game sense and skill level are so far above your teammates is something you really need to take a serious look at. Every one of your comments that I've read has been you trashing your teammates and taking zero responsibility for the loss, which is absolutely, 100% NEVER the case, no matter how well you do. Even when people point out games where you end up with the same scores as the 'feeders' you shit on in this thread, you make some excuse for why that wasn't 'feeding' and instead some lack of support from your team or simply an impossible situation to not feed in.

Arrogance in Dota is only going to hold you back. The best way I've found to improve is making sure I note every mistake I make and try not to repeat them. Concentrate on your own play instead of your teammates and figure out ways you can help the situation rather than hinder it by constantly bitching.

Most of the people calling you out in this thread are just trying to make you realise you aren't that good, that you make as many mistakes as anyone else does and that you are at 3k mmr for a reason; you have a lot of room for improvement.
 
T

Telephoto999

Member
Nirvana said:
I play at about the same MMR as you (3.6k) and your arrogance is mystifying. The idea that your game sense and skill level are so far above your teammates is something you really need to take a serious look at. Every one of your comments that I've read has been you trashing your teammates and taking zero responsibility for the loss, which is absolutely, 100% NEVER the case, no matter how well you do. Even when people point out games where you end up with the same scores as the 'feeders' you shit on in this thread, you make some excuse for why that wasn't 'feeding' and instead some lack of support from your team or simply an impossible situation to not feed in.

Arrogance in Dota is only going to hold you back. The best way I've found to improve is making sure I note every mistake I make and try not to repeat them. Concentrate on your own play instead of your teammates and figure out ways you can help the situation rather than hinder it by constantly bitching.

Most of the people calling you out in this thread are just trying to make you realise you aren't that good, that you make as many mistakes as anyone else does and that you are at 3k mmr for a reason; you have a lot of room for improvement.
Click to expand...

How many hours and matches do you have in Dota 2, out of curiosity. Can you post your Dotabuff for comparison? I'd like to see GPM / XPM, win loss etc so I can help improve my own game. Thank you.
 
R

Razzer

Member
Btw can we now turn this into cool stories involving foreign players? I was playing with this Russian (European Peruvians) and he was on Sand king. He roamed early and we were winning. But the point is at the radiant ancients sometime in the mid game a massive fight broke out and he somehow got a rampage haha. His epicentre got one kill but the rest was him somehow getting last hits amongst all our heavy DPSers, and he was the only one left alive at the end. Was hilarious. His voice chatting was funny as well.
 
M

Madouu

Member
How about you make the same long posts and put the same effort analysing your game instead of whining about every single dota player out there. You know, areas you could actually improve on. I'm sure it would be both helpful and educative in more ways than you expect.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Thacker said:
Am I a 6k player? No. Am I a 5k player? No. Am I a solid 4 to 4.5 player? Yes. I should be ranked higher than what I am, period. For the amount of time I've played and the games I've played I'm already higher than average at 3.5k, but I should definitely be higher. I am sure there are plenty like me just as I am sure there are many (probably some in this thread) that are ranked far higher than they actually should be. The MMR system is completely flawed, and I am sure before the life of Dota 2 ends we will see major changes to this system (as already evidenced by their changes in the survey system at the end of the matches)


Fact.
Click to expand...
8 months is nothing and doesn't mean anything. There are people who have played for years and have no clue what's going on. Same for amount of games. This isn't a union seniority means nothing. You move up through skill. So get that out of your head right now. Games played is just a larger sample size to make your mmr even more accurate.

Second. You throw out all these numbers. You're definitely a 3.5k player? What does that mean? You tell me what all those tiers are defined by. What's the 2k tier? Always has wards and courier? 4k tier is no feeding? Well we've already seen that's not the case.
Hylian7 said:
5FUdAKx.png


You mean this guy?
Click to expand...
Yeah that's the dude. Put a pending trade offer through steam with all my chests for free and in the middle had my courier in it. Totes dick.
 
L

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
Wasn't Thacker the guy that admitted to cheesing his way up the MMR ladder by only picking Furion for like a month straight? He's honestly probably only supposed to be around 2k lol.
 
B

Boken

Banned
BearPawB said:
I still don't understand why you think hours/number of matches has anything to do with anything.
Click to expand...

hes oddly obsessed with penises

Thacker said:
It's just odd how you guys want to scrutinize all my games and make all these callouts but I can't see any of yours.
Click to expand...

its just odd how you want to scrutinize peruvian snipers when they cant defend themselves
its also odd how you scrutinize games of others when you cant scrutineer any of yours
are you a coward, thacker?
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Razzer said:
Btw can we now turn this into cool stories involving foreign players? I was playing with this Russian (European Peruvians) and he was on Sand king. He roamed early and we were winning. But the point is at the radiant ancients sometime in the mid game a massive fight broke out and he somehow got a rampage haha. His epicentre got one kill but the rest was him somehow getting last hits amongst all our heavy DPSers, and he was the only one left alive at the end. Was hilarious. His voice chatting was funny as well.
Click to expand...

I had a chinese guy on my team when I was Pudge one time and this guy was actually pretty cool, and at the end was like "good job Pudge"
 
H

Hylian7

Member
SteveWinwood said:
8 months is nothing and doesn't mean anything. There are people who have played for years and have no clue what's going on. Same for amount of games. This isn't a union seniority means nothing. You move up through skill. So get that out of your head right now. Games played is just a larger sample size to make your mmr even more accurate.

Second. You throw out all these numbers. You're definitely a 3.5k player? What does that mean? You tell me what all those tiers are defined by. What's the 2k tier? Always has wards and courier? 4k tier is no feeding? Well we've already seen that's not the case.

Yeah that's the dude. Put a pending trade offer through steam with all my chests for free and in the middle had my courier in it. Totes dick.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I would laugh if people seriously fall for that tactic "Here's some common and uncommon shit, NOW GIVE ME YOUR DRAGONCLAW BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE IT IN THERE!"
 
T

Telephoto999

Member
LiQuid! said:
Wasn't Thacker the guy that admitted to cheesing his way up the MMR ladder by only picking Furion for like a month straight? He's honestly probably only supposed to be around 2k lol.
Click to expand...

Because furion is some broken hero that makes it easy to cheese up the ladder?

lol?

1v1 me mid for all the rares
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Thacker said:
It's just odd how you guys want to scrutinize all my games and make all these callouts but I can't see any of yours.
Click to expand...

I don't fill this thread with endless posts bitching about how terrible my games are and all these braindead peruvians in the game. After a game I go 'huh, heres a list of things i could have done better'. You should try it some time.

These people are not holding you back in some sort of never ending loss loop aka the trench. You are holding yourself back.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Thacker said:
It's just odd how you guys want to scrutinize all my games and make all these callouts but I can't see any of yours.
Click to expand...

Even without looking at your profile, people are going to call you out for the kind of shit you're talking. People are using your profile against you because just telling you that we think you're wrong doesn't seem to be getting through as you continue to misunderstand the larger point.
 
G

Green Biker Dude

Banned
let me ask you a question: suppose you win the 1v1 mid against whoever you play. then what?

if some guy says you belong where you are in the mm ladder, and he wins against you, you will accept what he says? but if you win, then he's wrong?

if the best mid player on gaf says you belong in the 2k mmr, and beats you 1v1, then you're going to agree with him?
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
yo legit this shits getting really funny. If you rly are gonna talk about mmr, what u deserve, etc. etc. and wanna be taken seriously, I could look at a few of ur replays. And I swear to Chris Metzen, if you're actually sub-par trash that doesn't even belong in 3ks much less your self-evaluated 4k or 4.5k, then i'll point out every last damning mistake you make. Get over yourself, you're so obsessed with a number yet get so upset when people with bigger numbers than you talk down on you the same way you talk down these peruvian snipers.

No matter what you think, you're not good, you belong in your skill bracket, and you probably deserve everything you've gotten. Work on self-reflection, because guess what? Its called solo queue. And the only way to consistently climb that ladder is to be a better player, not pray for teammates. Because I'm pretty sure nobody in your bracket could carry your 1-12 luna.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Thacker said:
Am I a 6k player? No. Am I a 5k player? No. Am I a solid 4 to 4.5 player? Yes. I should be ranked higher than what I am, period. For the amount of time I've played and the games I've played I'm already higher than average at 3.5k, but I should definitely be higher. I am sure there are plenty like me just as I am sure there are many (probably some in this thread) that are ranked far higher than they actually should be. The MMR system is completely flawed, and I am sure before the life of Dota 2 ends we will see major changes to this system (as already evidenced by their changes in the survey system at the end of the matches)


Fact.
Click to expand...

legit bro i agree with u i'm actually a 7.5k player in disguise
 
B

BearPawB

Banned
Thacker said:
It's just odd how you guys want to scrutinize all my games and make all these callouts but I can't see any of yours.
Click to expand...

You don't get it.
I am not saying I'm better than you.
I don't care if you could kick my ass 1v1.

That has nothing to do with it.

You are saying how great you are, then we show games where you played objectively poorly. Instead of admitting, "yeah I had an off game....their other guy was really good" you blame "Peruvians" of all people.

Take some responsibility for your play.
 
R

Razzer

Member
1.09 said:
yo legit this shits getting really funny. If you rly are gonna talk about mmr, what u deserve, etc. etc. and wanna be taken seriously, I could look at a few of ur replays. And I swear to Chris Metzen, if you're actually sub-par trash that doesn't even belong in 3ks much less your self-evaluated 4k or 4.5k, then i'll point out every last damning mistake you make. Get over yourself, you're so obsessed with a number yet get so upset when people with bigger numbers than you talk down on you the same way you talk down these peruvian snipers.

No matter what you think, you're not good, you belong in your skill bracket, and you probably deserve everything you've gotten. Work on self-reflection, because guess what? Its called solo queue. And the only way to consistently climb that ladder is to be a better player, not pray for teammates. Because I'm pretty sure nobody in your bracket could carry your 1-12 luna.
Click to expand...

Please do this. In fact do it for mine too, teach me plz.

My dotabuff btw for you Thacker :)

http://dotabuff.com/players/147390883
 
Nirvana

Nirvana

Member
Thacker said:
How many hours and matches do you have in Dota 2, out of curiosity. Can you post your Dotabuff for comparison? I'd like to see GPM / XPM, win loss etc so I can help improve my own game. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Go nuts.

http://dotabuff.com/players/119128380

I don't play carry much, so GPM/XPM isn't really a stat I pay much attention to, so I'm not sure that's really a good indicator for comparison. My win/loss is higher than yours though, with less games played, so that must mean I am MUCH better than you right? That's how it works, right?

Funnily enough, the people I have played with since I started play Dota 2 about a year ago are 4k+ players and I can tell you that we still end up with the same teammates as anyone else; watch Dendi's stream and you will still see poor decision making at 6k. Point is, you aren't the best player in your bracket, get over yourself and learn from your mistakes rather than bitching out other people.
 
K

Ketch

Member
Razzer said:
Btw can we now turn this into cool stories involving foreign players? I was playing with this Russian (European Peruvians) and he was on Sand king. He roamed early and we were winning. But the point is at the radiant ancients sometime in the mid game a massive fight broke out and he somehow got a rampage haha. His epicentre got one kill but the rest was him somehow getting last hits amongst all our heavy DPSers, and he was the only one left alive at the end. Was hilarious. His voice chatting was funny as well.
Click to expand...

I had this one game where I was playing Windrunner offlane with some spanish speaking guys. I was able to pull of a couple clutch shackles from the fog and got like mad soccer game style spanish hype, "WIIIIIINNNNDRAANGER!" I had no idea what else they were saying, but man it felt good.
 
K

Karakand

Member
Razzer said:
Btw can we now turn this into cool stories involving foreign players? I was playing with this Russian (European Peruvians) and he was on Sand king. He roamed early and we were winning. But the point is at the radiant ancients sometime in the mid game a massive fight broke out and he somehow got a rampage haha. His epicentre got one kill but the rest was him somehow getting last hits amongst all our heavy DPSers, and he was the only one left alive at the end. Was hilarious. His voice chatting was funny as well.
Click to expand...

I played a ranked match solo with 2 Russian speakers (1 was from Belarus) a few weeks ago and it was a hoot because we all knew bits of each other's languages. A lot of my Russian is Cold War tinged (or rude profanity) and I think they said I was a Pravda reader (I know they said Pravda) and when I exclaimed Pravda after trying to read this sentence they laughed and said commended me for being a good padevan [sic.].
 
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