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Dota 2 |OT5| TECHIES!!!

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P

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
A Sentient Keyboard said:
I don't really understand how Dark Seer is supposed to work (in standard solo offlane position). Do you intentionally push the creep equilibrium to their tower with ion shell, so that their tower messes up their last hits? Meanwhile, you get your gold/xp from casting ion shell on their jungle creeps, while hanging around in lane for xp/occasional ion shell lane creep kills, surge-running away as soon as they go for you?
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Yeah that's what you do. Get a soul ring and you try to run them out of regen and either kill them or stop them from farming comfortably at all. Ion shell has the added bonus of punishing pulling pretty well, if the carry has to tank a wave with ion shell they're going to get worn down much, much faster. You can also start cutting the creep wave with level 2 ion shell if you get into a comfortable position in the lane.

Gentle Rodriguez said:
Also Anti-Mage because Dark Seer kind of needs his mana.

Edit: Getting a value point in Mana Shield is also pretty good against Ion.
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I think ds does decently against am. Early on he'll be able to have an ion shell up if am blinks on him and can trade hits easily. Later you'll have soul ring and ring of regen to keep the ion shells going.
 
A

Artanisix

Member
Anbokr said:
Agreed with the bolded. Disagree with the rest. Windrun can be more useful than the others depending on the situation. When I say abilities are different and heroes are different; I simply mean that I don't like taking individual abilities in a vacuum and saying X is strictly better than Y, making a blanket statement that ignores the rest of the toolkit, hero, and the thousands of different scenarios that can occur during a dota match.

Also, it's fairly easy to make most non-ultimates look bad with a list of negatives, ignoring all the positives:
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So are you going to point out actual common scenarios or just make blanket statements like "the thousands of different scenarios that can occur during a dota match"? You're disagreeing without any supporting evidence.

I mentioned WR in the offlane as a situation where windrun is terrible. It is objectively worse than any of the other spells I mentioned. No one is talking about abilities in a vacuum, WR's skillset is just plain bad compared to Nyx, Doom, Dark Seer etc. against the way safe lanes are played now.

The only carries that do really well vs ds are like Luna, BS, Syllabear off the top of my head.
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Mirana + targeted stunner like Venge is one of the best dual lanes against DS and probably one of the only dual lanes that can succeed against him.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Artanisix said:
So are you going to point out actual common scenarios or just make blanket statements like "the thousands of different scenarios that can occur during a dota match"? You're disagreeing without any supporting evidence.

I mentioned WR in the offlane as a situation where windrun is terrible. It is objectively worse than any of the other spells I mentioned. No one is talking about abilities in a vacuum, WR's skillset is just plain bad compared to Nyx, Doom, Dark Seer etc. against the way safe lanes are played now.
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You say it is objectively worse than ability X, Y, and Z. I don't think it is objectively worse than Carapace, Scorched Earth, or Surge. In some cases, yes. In others, no. For example, if dark seer surges and then eats a stun, PA or some carry jumps on him, and he eats some right clicks from a trilane--he's dead. Windrunner has a few seconds of immunity to those right clicks despite eating the stun. I'm sorry milk but this just seems to be another case of I think X, and I think Y, there really isn't much else to say.
 
A

Artanisix

Member
It is objectively worse in the offlane. Like I said.

It's not a matter of X or Y, it's a matter of windrun being total shit at level one, lasting less than three seconds, and being countered by every slow in the game. Scorched Earth + stout, Carapace and Impale + stout, Surge + Ion shell + stout are all objectively better than windrun in the offlane, unless you're against a Spectre Void PA lane. Actually no, being melee and having stout shield will give you more survivability than windrun still.

Windrunner loses to dual lanes. Melee offlaners lose to trilanes.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Make Powershot global~

Give Windrun fixed max movespeed (like Surge).
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
Artanisix said:
Mirana + targeted stunner like Venge is one of the best dual lanes against DS and probably one of the only dual lanes that can succeed against him.
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I'd like that but IMO potm's dmg is really low, and as long as DS sits in the creep wave its kind of hard to get him isolated for a long enough arrow imo.

If we're talking dual lanes, or strictly speaking supports, I think Disruptor does ok if he's paired with a carry that has nuke power, like Disruptor+Slark is really good vs DS. Naga+Skywrath would probably do well too.

DS is a stupid hero anyways, but he's not as dumb as phoenix. If you don't pick skywrath or silencer to hard counter him he wins the offlane
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
1.09 said:
DS is a stupid hero anyways, but he's not as dumb as phoenix. If you don't pick skywrath or silencer to hard counter him he wins the offlane
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SWM + VS + Sniper aggro tri is the the only way to beat Phoenix.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
Artanisix said:
It is objectively worse in the offlane. Like I said.

It's not a matter of X or Y, it's a matter of windrun being total shit at level one, lasting less than three seconds, and being countered by every slow in the game. Scorched Earth + stout, Carapace and Impale + stout, Surge + Ion shell + stout are all objectively better than windrun in the offlane, unless you're against a Spectre Void PA lane. Actually no, being melee and having stout shield will give you more survivability than windrun still.

Windrunner loses to dual lanes. Melee offlaners lose to trilanes.
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This.

I love Windrunner. So much that I still call her that despite her stupid name change.

Her shackles, powershot and focus fire skills are sound. Windrun however is so easily countered that I can understand why she isn't picked more. Definitely needs a buff.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Artanisix said:
Windrunner loses to dual lanes. Melee offlaners lose to trilanes.
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So then she isn't "objectively worse" in the offlane. She'll do better than a doom with scorched earth + stout in the offlane when up against a trilane. That's my entire point about scenarious. You and many others prefer a melee offlaner against a dual lane. Against a trilane, you probably don't like most melee nor windrunner, but I think you'd take the latter over someone like Doom or Nyx. Hence why I disagree with the "objectively better" blanket statement.

I think we can both agree that the ironborn are objectively better than everyone else in westeros tho, ez.
 
A

Artanisix

Member
Anbokr said:
So then she isn't "objectively worse" in the offlane. She'll do better than a doom with scorched earth + stout in the offlane when up against a trilane. That's my entire point about scenarious. You and many others prefer a melee offlaner against a dual lane. Against a trilane, you probably don't like most melee nor windrunner, but I think you'd take the latter over someone like Doom or Nyx. Hence why I disagree with the "objectively better" blanket statement.
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What are you even talking about? I said she loses the offlane to two heroes instead of three. How is that not objectively worse?

Yeah I prefer a melee offlaner against a dual lane, lol. They don't really lose to dual lanes. And they do better than windrunner against trilanes, too. And no, she won't do better than a Doom in the offlane. See: every iceiceice Doom game.

Her shackles, powershot and focus fire skills are sound. Windrun however is so easily countered that I can understand why she isn't picked more. Definitely needs a buff.
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I don't know if it needs a buff necessarily. She just very clearly cannot offlane with that skill. It's not a good escape skill.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
I'm trying to watch this DK vs iG Grand Final but I don't know if I have enough years left in my life to finish it up. Ugh. Is there any particular game worth watching?
 
S

Smithy C

Member
Got my first double with the player cards. Anyway want to swap a Silent card for a Super card so I can finish Vici Gaming's team page?
 
G

Gofu

Banned
Anbokr said:
You say it is objectively worse than ability X, Y, and Z. I don't think it is objectively worse than Carapace, Scorched Earth, or Surge. In some cases, yes. In others, no. For example, if dark seer surges and then eats a stun, PA or some carry jumps on him, and he eats some right clicks from a trilane--he's dead. Windrunner has a few seconds of immunity to those right clicks despite eating the stun. I'm sorry milk but this just seems to be another case of I think X, and I think Y, there really isn't much else to say.
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anbokr i hate to say it but this is another case of you just being wrong
 
T

traveler

Not Wario
Gofu said:
its just attacks
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Right, I was giving it as an idea of how they could buff the skill's ability to escape in a minor way, not how it currently is.

Granted, that doesn't stop a good number of disables, but you at least can deal with vs, ck, sven, etc. stuns, and things like concussive shot and assassinate if played correctly.
 
G

Gofu

Banned
traveler said:
Right, I was giving it as an idea of how they could buff the skill's ability to escape in a minor way, not how it currently is.

Granted, that doesn't stop a good number of disables, but you at least can deal with vs, ck, sven, etc. stuns, and things like concussive shot and assassinate if played correctly.
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wouldnt help her in the offlane. people dont use their stuns until you windrun, your hero is squishy as fuck because you have no hp and no armor so all they really need to do is right click you to death. if you try to wr, they stun you, get in front of you, and you die
 
shira

shira

Member
KingKong said:
So its official http://read.navi-gaming.com/en/team_news/NaVi_expands_to_North_America

gotta update the TI4 page again Valve
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USA USA USA
hoganshreds.gif


hoganshreds.gif



hoganshreds.gif
 
M

MurkyZebra2417

Member
i have a fucking 6 game loosing streak and am totally not resposible. Dropped from 4630 to 4380 mmr over the last week. Life is hard.
I need to drink more
 
Z

Zeth

Member
The Summit LAN event starts Thursday?

rezuth said:
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEH... I mean you could do it but... I'll rather you didn't.
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I was just scanning through some of the builds in client and saw it. Haven't used it, was just curious. Probably wouldn't consider it unless I was absolutely dominating, which I usually don't with Axe.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Fucking finally a game I actually enjoyed playing. http://dotabuff.com/matches/698491925

I just went gamey as hell and didn't even bother farming much after 6. Was really fun having Enigma's BKB not matter but Dazzle and Omni was not fun and backfired on me very often. First game on clock though, I'm content.

Edit: it says omni abandoned but he was there till almost the very end.
 
Q

Quesa

Member
Conceptor said:
Ah so this is what made you guys so suicidal last night

Einbroch does Mason going to TI4 mean your family gets to go too?

What's this Pokemon timeline thing
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Ok so when pikachu got in the pokeball he split the timeline in one timeline he gets out of the ball right after and it's the kid pikachu timeline in the other it's seven years later and charizard has taken over Kanto and that's the adult pikachu timeline and there's the third timeline where Ash gets hit by lightning in the first episode or something and dies

no idea
 
J

Jhriad

Member
My tenth game in: Die a lot in laning and get called a noob repeatedly, accused of having down syndrome, cursed at, player repeatedly says it's over. We win but not really due to much of my own effort. I can definitely tell I'm playing a moba again.
 
A

Artanisix

Member
Jhriad said:
My tenth game in: Die a lot in laning and get called a noob repeatedly, accused of having down syndrome, cursed at, player repeatedly says it's over. We win but not really due to much of my own effort. I can definitely tell I'm playing a moba again.
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Mute button.

Use it.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Jhriad said:
My tenth game in: Die a lot in laning and get called a noob repeatedly, accused of having down syndrome, cursed at, player repeatedly says it's over. We win but not really due to much of my own effort. I can definitely tell I'm playing a moba again.
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I can guarantee you at the level you are probably at the guys calling you "noob" are doing even more "noob" things than you are.

I was coaching a friend brand new to Dota once. The Riki on his team was kicking ass... With an Armlet. Now the reason he was kicking ass was because the other team didn't know what detection was. He probably could have rushed EBlade and still won.
 
Z

Zeknurn

Member
Jexhius said:
That's weird, I've had a ton drop in a handful of games.
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I don't believe you.



What's up with the matchmaking tonight. First game I had someone that raged because he got first blooded when they unpaused before he had fully loaded in to the game after disconnecting. He fed couriers and himself for the rest of the game.

Second game someone abandoned after randoming Chaos Knight.
 
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