Support NeoGAF

[Quesa]

it is serious, and he's not playing. The sl thing was probably before they knew the gravity of the issue

But bending over just because teams can't get their shit in order is not helping.

Like you said, they already have bent over for EG. I'd understand (but would disagree with) a "no exceptions" policy, and you could argue over the time difference between the two cases, but as it stands, they've already broken their rule (which, considering the confusion, was obviously not laid out clearly) to help out a team. If they don't let x in, it looks like they're playing favorites even if they're not. Let him through, establish better rules next time. Teach valve a thing or two about communicating better.

 

[M.D]

That's some goddamn fucking bullshit from Valve.

The EG and Fear situation is no different.
If EG were in talks with Valve, and it was clear that there's a real possibility Fear could not play at TI4, they should've left them with 2 options - you get the invite with Fear and run the risk of being disqualified in the case he cannot play, or you get invited with Mason. End of story.

They broke their own supposed rules by inviting Fear and then letting Mason take his place.

That said, I'd rather see Fnatic disqualify if it means not forcing Era to play and making things worse for him.

 

[smoothj]

Never played a MOBA. Which game should I invest time into, this or LoL?

I am casual player maybe can play 3-4 hours a week.

Thanks!

 

[Haly]

Never played a MOBA. Which game should I invest time into, this or LoL?

I am casual player maybe can play 3-4 hours a week.

Thanks!

Which do your friends play? If you have friends playing either one of these games, you should go with them.

If you like your games to be the more complex entries in their genre, DOTA2 is better. If you want a streamlined experience you can zone out to for a few hours every day, League of Legends is better.

A good example is Magic: The Gathering vs YGO, or Street Fighter vs Smash Bros, or Civilization IV vs Civilization V.

 

[ElyrionX]

Empathy is different from knowledge. Neither you nor I know how severe his condition is. My stance is that no one should be given the benefit of the doubt when the stakes are so high and it's an inherent nature of the job. How many of us have a realistic chance of winning a $5mn top prize split among five at any point in our life?

Yes, Valve needs to make the rules clearer but giving him the benefit of the doubt now is just making it unfair for the other invited teams.

 

[Quesa]

Never played a MOBA. Which game should I invest time into, this or LoL?

I am casual player maybe can play 3-4 hours a week.

Thanks!

Well you know which way the dota thread is gonna lean

Dota is somewhat harder to learn, but the reason I ultimately chose it is because you can play any hero at any time without having to pay, which made it easier to futz around with heroes I liked.

Empathy is different from knowledge. Neither you nor I know how severe his condition is. My stance is that no one should be given the benefit of the doubt when the stakes are so high and it's an inherent nature of the job. How many of us have a realistic chance of winning a $5mn top prize split among five at any point in our life?

Yes, Valve needs to make the rules clearer but giving him the benefit of the doubt now is just making it unfair for the other invited teams.

I think it goes without saying that Valve should attempt to validate the claim to some degree. But with mental illness being such a grey area I would err on the side of letting it through, especially considering they've already let the rule slide.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Empathy is different from knowledge. Neither you nor I know how severe his condition is. My stance is that no one should be given the benefit of the doubt when the stakes are so high and it's an inherent nature of the job. How many of us have a realistic chance of winning a $5mn top prize split among five at any point in our life?

Yes, Valve needs to make the rules clearer but giving him the benefit of the doubt now is just making it unfair for the other invited teams.

Like I said, Valve should hire a medical expert to look into Era's issue to ensure that it's not a way for Fnatic to just have another arguably better player to play for them. I empathise for Era, but if Valve just say no without investigating the issue then I see it as a big problem.

It's not like they don't have the money for it and I see it as a professional responsibility for them to handle this well.

....then again they do stupid stuff like not having a PR/spokesperson for this event so yeah...

 

[Drkirby]

Yeah, while I want to give Fnatic the benefit of the doubt about Era's condition, I am really skeptical about their explanation. He didn't recently start going to lans, he went to TI3 even. I would likely have an easier time fully buying into it if H4nn1 gave less details to be honest.

 

[ElyrionX]

it is serious, and he's not playing. The sl thing was probably before they knew the gravity of the issue

And therein lies the issue. The team didn't get their house in order and the communication within is clearly lacking. They are a professional organization. It's not rocket science to judge the severity of a team member's medical condition when he could not attend an important tournament. And if he was able to compete in a tournament after that, then something is clearly fishy. Is he or is he not medically unfit? So who decides?

I haven't check the results of SL but was he performing noticeably poorer than his usual games?

 

[manfestival]

ok I tried kotl for the second time ever. I totally suck with that dude. FFFFFFFFFFFFFF how do I do this? someone halp! I want 2 b gud kotl

 

[Haly]

1) Stay in the trees
2) Give PL your mana
3) Pew pew pew

(I'd like to be more specific but I'm not a good KOTL player and I'm tired.)

 

[Drkirby]

Also sounds like CIS may not be able to attend, an unsorced reddit post says their second visa attempt got denied too.

For Kotl, focus on giving other people mana. Your charge ability is nice, but can be really hard to hit. Also, grab a point in mana leak sometime before level 6 (Like 3 or 4), and use make use of it.

Recall can allow someone to TP back to base to fully heal, then you can bring them back to where you are.

 

[smoothj]

Which do your friends play? If you have friends playing either one of these games, you should go with them.

If you like your games to be the more complex entries in their genre, DOTA2 is better. If you want a streamlined experience you can zone out to for a few hours every day, League of Legends is better.

A good example is Magic: The Gathering vs YGO, or Street Fighter vs Smash Bros, or Civilization IV vs Civilization V.

Thanks!

My friends play LoL or did play anyways. I think I'll try that first and then try DOTA 2 and see if I like it.

I like more complex games.

 

[Ketch]

I like more complex games.

Well, it doesn't get anymore complex then dota 2.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Well, it doesn't get anymore complex then dota 2.

hear, hear.

LoL is a timesink. Dota 2 is an abyss.

 

[LiQuid!]

I got spoiled playing Dota 2 as my first MOBA. The thought of paying money to unlock a hero is absurd to me. Let's ignore the fact that I've given Valve enough money for hats to have unlocked the full LoL roster two times over.

 

[Haly]

Let's ignore the fact that I've given Valve enough money for hats to have unlocked the full LoL roster two times over.

How much?

I think you're underestimating the cost of the full league of lesbians roster.

EDIT: CK2 is more complex than DOTA2 but that's a different discussion.

 

[Drkirby]

I got spoiled playing Dota 2 as my first MOBA. The thought of paying money to unlock a hero is absurd to me. Let's ignore the fact that I've given Valve enough money for hats to have unlocked the full LoL roster two times over.

Debatable, it costs $615 to unlock every champ if you want to just buy them all outright.

Also, here is a small video demonstrating how you can alter creep agro with BoTs, could be useful in a pinch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g_RNg1X2Cw

 

[Ketch]

How much?

I think you're underestimating the cost of the full league of lesbians roster.

EDIT: CK2 is more complex than DOTA2 but that's a different discussion.

CK2 is.... crusader kings? I know nothing about that game except that maybe it features a map... does that game have multiplayer?

 

[Uriah]

What are the best starting items for jungle doom?

 

[Haly]

CK2 is.... crusader kings? I know nothing about that game except that maybe it features a map... does that game have multiplayer?

Yes, Crusader Kings.

It is the worst multiplayer experience currently on the market.

This is not an exaggeration.

You think Peruvians are bad?

Try spending 2 hours getting a 6 player game going and being able to play only 20 minutes because the other 100 minutes was spent dealing with crashes and bugs. DotA WC3 6.1x was a better experience than CK2 Multiplayer. This is with leavers, host lag, map downloads, and pre-optimized load times. At least it fucking worked.

 

[Ketch]

What are the best starting items for jungle doom?

I normally go tango, stout, ring of protection -> basi then either phase or brown boots into midas.

Yes, Crusader Kings.

It is the worst multiplayer experience currently on the market.

But, can I buy hats (or crowns as the name implies)?

 

[Vaporak]

Thanks!

My friends play LoL or did play anyways. I think I'll try that first and then try DOTA 2 and see if I like it.

I like more complex games.

I do think playing with friends is the most important thing to make getting into MOBA's fun, but it's worth considering before you start getting invested in any of the games that Dota2 has by far the most consumer friendly business model. A lot of people have mentally subscribed to the sunk cost fallacy and find it hard to move on from games that they have invested in, so it's worth carefully considering what you start paying for.

 

[Haly]

But, can I buy hats (or crowns as the name implies)?

There are no hats. This is a hardcore game for men, not a hat simulator for children.

 

[Drkirby]

It looks like ESL may have changed their brackets, the order of the games displayed on their website is different then what is on Liqipedia. The one on ESL's site seem to ensure a western team makes the finals:

http://www.esl-one.com/dota2/frankfurt-2014/
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/ESL_One/Frankfurt


Also, CIS has one more shot for a Visa on the 30th, if they don't get it it seems like they simply won't be able to attend. Its going to be risky though, they are doing 4 individual interviews, where before they were doing a group interview.

 

[Radec]

just saw Fnatic's issue,

Wow, sucks that they might not be able to go to TI4 because of this. All the hard work of the original 4 and new boy excalibur might go unrewarded.

This just puts more pressure to Era. Hopes the guy gets well soon.

Let this one slip Volvo, or atleast let them join the wild card atleast (if Era can't really go to TI4)

 

[Shinypogs]

just saw Fnatic's issue,

Wow, sucks that they might not be able to go to TI4 because of this. All the hard work of the original 4 and new boy excalibur might go unrewarded.

This just puts more pressure to Era. Hopes the guy gets well soon.

Let this one slip Volvo, or atleast let them join the wild card atleast (if Era can't really go to TI4)

If CIS get fucked over visa issues they could theoretically slot Fnatic into their wildcard spot, although I imagine that solution results in an equal amount of drama.

I long for the day when visa's will stop being problematic. A good amount of Sc2 players got screwed over by that back when I watched it.

 

[JustinBB7]

Can we not fill in main event predictions yet? It looks like I can but it just says select and nothing happens.

 

[Marauder Shields]

Also, CIS has one more shot for a Visa on the 30th, if they don't get it it seems like they simply won't be able to attend. Its going to be risky though, they are doing 4 individual interviews, where before they were doing a group interview.

That sucks

 

[Ikuu]

Yeah, while I want to give Fnatic the benefit of the doubt about Era's condition, I am really skeptical about their explanation. He didn't recently start going to lans, he went to TI3 even. I would likely have an easier time fully buying into it if H4nn1 gave less details to be honest.

Yea same with EG, Fear has played in LANs before so I'm not sure why he's suddenly unable to go to this one.

 

[Karakand]

Sorry but I think anxiety attacks for a professional athlete is a very poor excuse.

Jesus Navas didn't use it as an excuse.

 

[Ikuu]

Jesus Navas didn't use it as an excuse.

He quit international football for almost 5 years and turned down a move to Chelsea due to his condition, fortunately for him he seems to have overcame it.

 

[Wok]

So slow!

 

[SamVimes]

Like I said, Valve should hire a medical expert to look into Era's issue to ensure that it's not a way for Fnatic to just have another arguably better player to play for them. I empathise for Era, but if Valve just say no without investigating the issue then I see it as a big problem.

It's not like they don't have the money for it and I see it as a professional responsibility for them to handle this well.

....then again they do stupid stuff like not having a PR/spokesperson for this event so yeah...

Arguably better player that can only play 2 heroes and with whom they got two last places in a row on lan. ok

Yeah, while I want to give Fnatic the benefit of the doubt about Era's condition, I am really skeptical about their explanation. He didn't recently start going to lans, he went to TI3 even. I would likely have an easier time fully buying into it if H4nn1 gave less details to be honest.

I would abstain talking about stuff i know jack shit about, you should do the same.

 

[Qvoth]

really don't see why mason can go with eg but xcalibur can't with fnatic

 

[SZGF]

Thanks!

My friends play LoL or did play anyways. I think I'll try that first and then try DOTA 2 and see if I like it.

I like more complex games.

All MOBAs are - relative to videogaming - pretty complex

 

[Anbokr]

Yeah, while I want to give Fnatic the benefit of the doubt about Era's condition, I am really skeptical about their explanation. He didn't recently start going to lans, he went to TI3 even. I would likely have an easier time fully buying into it if H4nn1 gave less details to be honest.

What the hell reason would Era have to lie? He's effectively ending his dota career and his shot at 10 million dollars. Not to mention fnatic picked a 16 year old off the euro leaderboards to stand-in for them at both the Summit AND dreamhack, and their results were pretty awful at both events. There's little to no reason to believe "era sux, fnatic obv. dropped him for an upgrade," and pretty much every reason to believe a kid has a serious mental illness. Certainly more than EG "imma drop fear who played hundreds of games and started streaming everyday after we said he was 'injured'."

 

[Quilt]

Haven't been playing heroes like Enchantress, Drow, Clinkz etc. because using Alt to toggle autocast feels really uncomfortable.

Does anyone have any suggestions about to how to get around this with different binds/and or ways of using those abilities?

 

[Kreunt]

Haven't been playing heroes like Enchantress, Drow, Clinkz etc. because using Alt to toggle autocast feels really uncomfortable.

Does anyone have any suggestions about to how to get around this with different binds/and or ways of using those abilities?

i have my QWER toggles set to ZXCV, because i wasn't using those keys for anything else.

 

[Quilt]

i have my QWER toggles set to ZXCV, because i wasn't using those keys for anything else.

That would definitely work, but half of those are my current item binds. Using my top numbers 1,2,3,4,5 as hero select & control groups so cant switch to those either.

 

[Deadly]

What the hell reason would Era have to lie? He's effectively ending his dota career and his shot at 10 million dollars. Not to mention fnatic picked a 16 year old off the euro leaderboards to stand-in for them at both the Summit AND dreamhack, and their results were pretty awful at both events. There's little to no reason to believe "era sux, fnatic obv. dropped him for an upgrade," and pretty much every reason to believe a kid has a serious mental illness. Certainly more than EG "imma drop fear who played hundreds of games and started streaming everyday after we said he was 'injured'."

The Fnatic team has also been together for ages, I don't think they would split with someone so easily.

 

[SolidsnackooFoxhound]

We're almost there guys .

 

[SteveWinwood]

We're almost there guys .

300 dollars!

 

[Nymerio]

111 dollars

Edit: and it's 10.000.000

 

[abunai]

10mil hype

 

[SteveWinwood]

10 million dollars

thats a lot of money

digital sports is changed forever :O

 

[Imp the Dimp]

My compendium is still level 1 lol

 

[iamblades]

What the hell reason would Era have to lie? He's effectively ending his dota career and his shot at 10 million dollars. Not to mention fnatic picked a 16 year old off the euro leaderboards to stand-in for them at both the Summit AND dreamhack, and their results were pretty awful at both events. There's little to no reason to believe "era sux, fnatic obv. dropped him for an upgrade," and pretty much every reason to believe a kid has a serious mental illness. Certainly more than EG "imma drop fear who played hundreds of games and started streaming everyday after we said he was 'injured'."

Which is the whole reason they were denied and EG was allowed to play with Mason.

EG with Mason was a proven top 5 team in the world, even before the invites went out.

Fnatic with Excalibur would probably still deserve to go to TI, but it's not nearly as much of a sure thing given their mixed tournament results so far.

Ultimately it's an invitational tournament, and it is up to valve 100% who they choose to invite.

I doubt the legitimacy of the injury/illness had anything to do with Valve's decision process in either case. The decision ultimately comes down to whether the lineup in question has done enough to prove they are worthy of an invite, and apparently valve decided Fnatic with excalibur hasn't done so.

That said I would personally have just dropped them down to the play in series, but none of us really know the whole decision making process they went through on this.

 

[Zeth]

Why was Fear dropped if not injunry-related? I want some juicy rumors.

I got my Helm of the Stormlands this morning! Woot!

 

[shira]

Cis must have some serious nervous kids if they fail 3 visa meetings.

Throw fnatic in the phase 1 and make it 3 teams playing for 2 wild card spots. If fnatic can beat MVP and vp they are in