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Dota 2 |OT5| TECHIES!!!

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Imp the Dimp

Member
Never seen a Wraith King feed this much.

By the way, I like the Wraith King model and name much better than Skeleton King. A really fantastic skin change.
 
R

Rizzi

Member
DotA intimidates me.
I've played a whole lot of LoL over the years, but there's so much about DotA that I just don't get.
And so many damned characters.
 
A

Arkanius

Member
Rizzi said:
DotA intimidates me.
I've played a whole lot of LoL over the years, but there's so much about DotA that I just don't get.
And so many damned characters.
Click to expand...

What don't you get? We will do our best to explain.
Having so many heroes is the best thing about it. Variety, and every single one of them is different from each other.
 
I

Indignate

Member
For some reason my party got put into a low priority match, even though none of us should have been. Was really weird. We had normal matches before and after.

But man, that is the dregs of society right there. Just that glimpse had me shaking.
 
L

Lotto

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
Never seen a Wraith King feed this much.

By the way, I like the Wraith King model and name much better than Skeleton King. A really fantastic skin change.
Click to expand...

I do too, although I think we're in the minority here. I really like the ghostly teal color/effect he has now rather than just being a pile of bones.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Lotto said:
I do too, although I think we're in the minority here. I really like the ghostly teal color/effect he has now rather than just being a pile of bones.
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Yeah, SK was like the most generic character model in the game, I can't see how people are so attached to it.

Also, this WK went 1-10 wow.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
Yeah, SK was like the most generic character model in the game, I can't see how people are so attached to it.
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He was one of the longest standing heroes in DotA. SK was up there with the likes of CM, Lina, Lion, and a few others. He was also somewhat immortalized by the greatest Hero Guide ever written. I can understand why they changed him, but I still call him SK or just Leoric. My only gripe is that his color has a sea-esque feel to it which kind of misleads from the fact that he is more fire-oriented than anything.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
rhophiehalul78 said:
how are the china qualifiers? better than NA and SEA so far? I can't watch any right now...
Click to expand...
Quality of play is obviously quite good but games tend to go rather long. Since 6.79 games have a tendency to be over by the 30 min mark, not in China though. Chinese teams also tend to GG out really late. In this latest match between CIS and TongFu, CIS could've basically GG'd out of the game by the 20 min mark because they kept losing every fight but the game dragged on for 50+ mins with CIS still losing every engagement. Teams also are very reluctant to go high ground unless it's a 100% sure thing.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
The fall of lycan/invoker/necrobook means longer lasting games, not to mention the popularity of tanks (i.e. wraith king, brew, tide) + heals (i.e. dazzle, treant, witch doctor). It's about time though, this way we'll see some of the hard carries that have disappeared for a year or two possibly make a comeback.

Also, China.
 
R

Razzer

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
Spectre is easily the hardest carry in the game.

1. Spectre
2. Void
3. Anti Mage

I think.

Naga 6.80 used to be up there; not so sure nowadays.
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Well hardest and best aren't necessarily the same thing. Doesn't help being the best after 60 minutes if other hard carries beat you from 40-60 and even before.

Edit: As for which carry is best, I think that each of the ultra hard carries has a slightly different strength, that will make them better depending on what strat you are going for.

Void is the best fighter as he can chrono someone. PL is the king of split push, spectre gives amazing global presence, medusa has better AOE damage than any other etc. Each has their niche.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Razzer said:
Well hardest and best aren't necessarily the same thing. Doesn't help being the best after 60 minutes if other hard carries beat you from 40-60 and even before.
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I understood your question as who does best late game/who does best with farm. Pretty sure those three are unanimously regarded as the most scary. You probably have to live with crappy early and poor mid games when picking hard carries. I suppose Lifestealer and Lycan come online fairly early while scaling decent enough into late game.
 
R

Rizzi

Member
Arkanius said:
What don't you get? We will do our best to explain.
Having so many heroes is the best thing about it. Variety, and every single one of them is different from each other.
Click to expand...

How the heck do I know what items I should buy for.. anyone?
And if you give me too many choices for characters, I won't know how to handle any of them. D:
 
Z

Zeknurn

Member
Rizzi said:
How the heck do I know what items I should buy for.. anyone?
And if you give me too many choices for characters, I won't know how to handle any of them. D:
Click to expand...

Follow the highest rated community guide for a hero until you feel like you can decide for yourself.

Play the Limited Heroes game mode to limit the amount of heroes you will face.
 
R

Razzer

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
I understood your question as who does best late game/who does best with farm. Pretty sure those three are unanimously regarded as the most scary. You probably have to live with crappy early and poor mid games when picking hard carries. I suppose Lifestealer and Lycan come online fairly early while scaling decent enough into late game.
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Not my question. And I was still referring to hard carries rather than Lycan or Lifestealer style mid game carries, but even hard carries have different timing windows. AM is a hard carry, but his strength is that he flash farms better than any other hero, which means he gets six slotted earlier than other hard carries. He wins by being ahead of the other carry in items, but if it goes long enough that the Spectre gets six slotted too, then he will not win. And as I said earlier, I don't think there is a carry that unanimously does better with items, always.They can all contextually be stronger than each other.

Rizzi said:
How the heck do I know what items I should buy for.. anyone?
And if you give me too many choices for characters, I won't know how to handle any of them. D:
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You will pick up what items are best by playing. You learn what each item offers, in what situations those benefits are desirable, and when to get those items gradually. Just use the in game guides for now, but bear in mind that eventually it will be better to make your own decisions. If you ever have specific examples you are curious about just ask.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Razzer said:
Not my question. And I was still referring to hard carries rather than Lycan or Lifestealer style mid game carries, but even hard carries have different timing windows. AM is a hard carry, but his strength is that he flash farms better than any other hero, which means he gets six slotted earlier than other hard carries. He wins by being ahead of the other carry in items, but if it goes long enough that the Spectre gets six slotted too, then he will not win. And as I said earlier, I don't think there is a carry that unanimously does better with items, always.They can all contextually be stronger than each other.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain AM is also one of the best man-fighting carries in the game even if going against other 6 slotted hard carries.

Here's a slightly outdated list of win% by game duration (Spectre #1):

680durationfull2.png


And by farm dependency (AM #1):

farmdependent677b.png
 
R

rhophiehalul78

Member
Rizzi said:
How the heck do I know what items I should buy for.. anyone?
And if you give me too many choices for characters, I won't know how to handle any of them. D:
Click to expand...

You can use guides ingame. At the start of the match, there is a guide icon at the upper left of the screen, then you can choose from any of the toprated guides there. I usually pick the guide for version 6.81 Lane Build. When you click the Shop button, the guide automatically suggests any items you may want to build (form starting items, to core items to situational ones). It will also suggest the skill you should level up and some even have comments for the skills near the bottom when you hover your mouse at them. Keep in mind that you should adjust accordingly depending on your match up and situation (are you behind? are you steamrolling? are you being disabled constantly? are you lacking mobility?).

If you want, you can try coop bot matches first. People are more forgiving there and you can experiment all you like. Also, keep in mind that any item that increases your primary attribute (its either one of str, int or agi) will also increase your damage.

You should also know the primary role of the hero you're using and pick items that compliment your role well.
 
R

Razzer

Member
What does slope in the second chart mean exactly? I'd like to be clear on it before answering.

Edit: I have been reminded I need to be somewhere. I'll continue this discussion later, if it's alright. I'm enjoying it though.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Rizzi said:
How the heck do I know what items I should buy for.. anyone?
And if you give me too many choices for characters, I won't know how to handle any of them. D:
Click to expand...

http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck

Items are almost all situational although certain heroes have core items that are better suited for them--e.g. Diffusal Blade and Manta Style on Phantom Lancer. Make sure you know how recipes work and don't buy recipes instead of the actual item. Your best bet is just to find a single hero and a single item build and play with that until you have a better feel for them game, then maybe make changes after checking out all the items in the game. Or you could play like you're from Peru and get Hand of Midas on everything.

As for heroes, there are different learning curves for all of them. I would say at low tiers heroes like Drow, Wraith King, and Riki are easy to grasp for carries and most supports like Lich, Lion, Sand King are fairly easy as well, then there are oddball offlaners like Bounty Hunter and Spiritbreaker who are fairly manageable. Just find a hero you want to learn and find the best guides you can for them, watch a Purge Plays or something of that nature, and play until you hate yourself, then after feeling that way for a few weeks you will start to have fun.

Just avoid Meepo, Invoker, Pudge, Chen, Enchantress, Ember Spirit, Pudge, Earth Spirit, Broodmother, Pudge, Medusa, Pheonix, Pudge, IO, Puck, Visage, and most importantly Pudge. Seriously, if you pick Pudge without fully understanding the game you will be hated upon.
 
A

Arkanius

Member
Rizzi said:
How the heck do I know what items I should buy for.. anyone?
And if you give me too many choices for characters, I won't know how to handle any of them. D:
Click to expand...

There are community guides that suggest great builds for your character (Top left corner. Rightmost icon I believe). Find the highest rated one, follow the item build and the skill build.

When you get to know every item and every hero, you can remove these training wheels.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
My problem is while I know I'm pretty good with Disruptor, I am ass with other heroes that it isn't surprised that my MMR is around 2.8.

So now I'm playing single draft, trying out different ones and better my cs, positioning etc. Not sure if it's worth grinding 1000 mmr to get to level 3000 though.

I wish Valve lets us reset our MMR once a year. Give those of us who don't have time to grind another chance at improving our MMR points, or at least to see how far we have gotten as players.
 
C

close to the edge

Member
FlutterPuffs said:
My problem is while I know I'm pretty good with Disruptor, I am ass with other heroes that it isn't surprised that my MMR is around 2.8.

So now I'm playing single draft, trying out different ones and better my cs, positioning etc. Not sure if it's worth grinding 1000 mmr to get to level 3000 though.

I wish Valve lets us reset our MMR once a year. Give those of us who don't have time to grind another chance at improving our MMR points, or at least to see how far we have gotten as players.
Click to expand...

SC2 has seasons, where after a couple of months, everyone does a new set of placement matches and gets a fresh rating. I think that would be cool in Dota as well.
 
C

Captain_Spanky

Member
Any tips for playing Templar Assassin? She's one of my ten heroes I need to play and I just cannot make her work. She seems so under powered I feel like there must be some sort of trick or technique I'm missing that will make her work.
 
U

Ultimatum

Banned
FlutterPuffs said:
I wish Valve lets us reset our MMR once a year. Give those of us who don't have time to grind another chance at improving our MMR points, or at least to see how far we have gotten as players.
Click to expand...

post this on reddit, this needs to happen, it solves soo many issues

the only concern I have is how valve handle the reset, maybe not resetting mmr but instead increasing uncertainty to 1000 when recalibrating.

it doesn't completely solve people buying high mmr accounts but it's a step in the right direction
Captain_Spanky said:
Any tips for playing Templar Assassin? She's one of my ten heroes I need to play and I just cannot make her work. She seems so under powered I feel like there must be some sort of trick or technique I'm missing that will make her work.
Click to expand...

don't forget to use meld offensively, it dishes out a lot of damage and reduces armour
 
R

Reckoner

Member
Razzer said:
Viper is fairly good for beginners, yes. He is great at winning lanes which is the most important thing in lower pub dota, and he has two passives + two incredibly easy actives. And he doesn't buy items that are hugely skilful either. So you can focus on the positioning, awareness and last hitting parts of the game.



Yeah, I imagine this also plays a role. Some nicks roll off the tongue a lot better than others.
Click to expand...

The thing that I notice is that when I'm against a character with silence or Blood Seeker with that annoying attack that leaves my bleeding, most of the time they get me pretty easy. Otherwise I win. Any tips to counter them?
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
Ultimatum said:
post this on reddit, this needs to happen, it solves soo many issues

the only concern I have is how valve handle the reset, maybe not resetting mmr but instead increasing uncertainty to 1000 when recalibrating.
Click to expand...
I have, but people downvoted it, saying I should try and play at the MMR I am in.

Thing is, the Mmr doesn't take into account how much rapidly better you improve as a player, moreso thanks to coaching by friends in lobbies and playing in a party. Hopefully Valve reads this OT and give us another chance in the near future.


Heck, why not do it right after the International? That's when the Dota high is at peak for me, and people are much more tryhards than usual.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Reckoner said:
The thing that I notice is that when I'm against a character with silence or Blood Seeker with that annoying attack that leaves my bleeding, most of the time they get me pretty easy. Otherwise I win. Any tips to counter them?
Click to expand...

You can TP out of Bloodseeker's Rupture (the thing that lets you bleed). Avoiding stuns in general is a matter of positioning or getting a Black King Bar.
 
R

Razzer

Member
Reckoner said:
The thing that I notice is that when I'm against a character with silence or Blood Seeker with that annoying attack that leaves my bleeding, most of the time they get me pretty easy. Otherwise I win. Any tips to counter them?
Click to expand...

If Bloodseeker goes for you, tp away. Simple as that. TP's counter his solo killing potential, so be extra sure to have on against him at all times. This is because the bleeding spell, rupture, has a max threshold for distance, so by going all the way back to base you take no damage. As for the silences, it shouldn't be a huge problem for Viper as he is still mostly about rightclick. If they are killing you on their own that just means they are more farmed rather than silences countering Viper. But if you find it annoying, build a Manta style. The active gets rid of silences, and it's a decent item on Viper anyway.
 
P

patapuf

Member
Reckoner said:
The thing that I notice is that when I'm against a character with silence or Blood Seeker with that annoying attack that leaves my bleeding, most of the time they get me pretty easy. Otherwise I win. Any tips to counter them?
Click to expand...

Bloodseeker is easy: use a TP scroll if he ganks you. Also, hitting the "s" key stops movement, you only take "bleeding" damage if you move around.

Silence is more tricky. There are items that purge it (BKB, Manta style, Diffusal) but if aren't a carry you probably won't build them. If you play support, retreat to the back until you can cast you spells again.
 
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