Shuggananas
Banned
Something needs to be done about caustic finale, this spell is just not interesting, outside of a 1v1 mid situation which never happens because SK is a shit mid
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DOTA 2 |OT9| League of Ancients (6.84)
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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Make his spells apply Caustic Finale, or at least Burrowstrike, because that might be a bit broken if Sandstorm did it.
Vade
Member
How do you feel about Face Pulls?
Straps for traps, bro. If your grip is the limiting factor then start working with straps. Although it's not as big a deal with shrugs I definitely avoid the smith at all costs.
If you want to mix it up you can check out exrx for exercises for specific muscle groups.
Can always count on Hylian to run to GAF when it comes to differences with how to play for validation.
If only that game had a hero who has a skill that grants bonus money and xp when you got kills... Na, probably just better to sit back, farm, and let them continue to steam roll us with their lineup that wrecks our carry.
This is like a rinse and repeat cycle, especially with SS. If you do well in mid with last hits/kills to get an orchid by 13min there is hope to do well in the game. The moment you're just a bit behind with this hero you can't be counted on for the next 20min until you get your item(s). Not every game is a game that you have the luxury to sit back and farm. Storm (like every other hero) CAN DO WELL without loads of farm, or even their first big item, to benefit the team/game early. You play this hero, and just about every hero respectively the same way in every game. No adaptability.
edit:
What is your constant negativity with this thinking? No one was talking about marching down mid for a 5v5. Can easily buy a smoke and get a single, or multiple hero pick-off and we're back in the game. This is even more true in this case given BH was on the team. Gank successfully and we've caught up. Farm, and they pull away even further.
Do people actually want a vanilla Dota OT? Seems atrocious to me. Most of the people who need and/or will take serious advice are all networked on steam, and who needs dota advice anyways when we can all just refute whatever we don't agree with and swear up and down that mid pudge is best pudge or how imba sniper is.
The fact is, dota's a frustrating game. Losses are devastating after investing so much time into a game that doesn't carry over at all, and even some wins can be grueling. Personal improvement is something that takes a lot of time and dedication to actually appear, and going into Dota like this is not for many people. A subreddit like /r/truedota attempts to become a board dedicated towards this by being solely about mechanics, yet takes a lot of the fun out of the game. Sometimes we want a break from the game, and want to see some cute artwork, sexy cosplay, funny video, or otherwise. This thread on the other hand has done a fantastic job of fostering a lot of good advice, discussions, and everything under the sun, while still going off-topic at times or taking fun jabs at certain posters.
Where else do we get a daily blog of the struggles of a 4k mid player, keep contact with people like Anuxi, Matt, and Bounch who have done so much for the game, ban meeru clones, host community tournaments and events, have an awful rap day, and collectively complain about ihl2? Frankly, a lot of the more frequent posters in this thread have been with us for years now, and in my opinion every person should be free to post whatever they want (especially seeing as how this is in community).
This thread is fantastic as it is, it's fun, without heading towards shit-posting territory. Yes, we get off-topic sometimes, especially during lulls in activity, but we all play dota, and we're part of one of the best gaf communities out there. And while you may not like it, this thread probably won't change it's formula any time soon.
The fact is, dota's a frustrating game. Losses are devastating after investing so much time into a game that doesn't carry over at all, and even some wins can be grueling. Personal improvement is something that takes a lot of time and dedication to actually appear, and going into Dota like this is not for many people. A subreddit like /r/truedota attempts to become a board dedicated towards this by being solely about mechanics, yet takes a lot of the fun out of the game. Sometimes we want a break from the game, and want to see some cute artwork, sexy cosplay, funny video, or otherwise. This thread on the other hand has done a fantastic job of fostering a lot of good advice, discussions, and everything under the sun, while still going off-topic at times or taking fun jabs at certain posters.
Where else do we get a daily blog of the struggles of a 4k mid player, keep contact with people like Anuxi, Matt, and Bounch who have done so much for the game, ban meeru clones, host community tournaments and events, have an awful rap day, and collectively complain about ihl2? Frankly, a lot of the more frequent posters in this thread have been with us for years now, and in my opinion every person should be free to post whatever they want (especially seeing as how this is in community).
This thread is fantastic as it is, it's fun, without heading towards shit-posting territory. Yes, we get off-topic sometimes, especially during lulls in activity, but we all play dota, and we're part of one of the best gaf communities out there. And while you may not like it, this thread probably won't change it's formula any time soon.
Translation: I was farming, and while I was doing that our carry wasn't able to farm because I was in the safest spots and she got ganked a lot.
Maybe, Drow's farm could have been secured if the team was off ganking and creating space for her to farm safely. Maybe there's a system (for better or worse) that allows a team to come back easier from getting kills than farming. Farming games exist, this was not one of them (after ~15min).
Cyborgmatt
Member
WeDontPlay.
Here's the deal, in that particular game I still disagree. We had a Drow, she needed farm, we could sit back, farm, and avoid fights. We did not have to go ham. We could stay safe, and farm. Now, granted I don't know if she would have itemized properly even if she did have the farm she needed (S&Y.....lol), but it would have certainly put us in a better position to play the high ground base defense game. We get items and we could beat that team, just look at them compared to our team.
Their cores are QoP, Slark, and debatably Axe. Ours are Storm, BH, and Drow. We can eat them alive late game. Drow can just sit back in base and pick at Slark all day long. Hell I can zip in there and sheep him first. Axe is also a concern, but you can of course Track him and I can make sure to cancel his blink. You could have used more farm anyway, Track kills are nice if we see an opportunity for them, but they aren't guaranteed, that's okay, you just need to farm while nothing is happening. If you had a Desolator, I see four squishies that would get wrecked by it, and an Axe that would be like "Aw crap I have no armor", instead you bought Blink for some reason.
I pick a lot of farming heroes lately, why? Because it's safe and works. If you can farm well, you win the game. If you are behind, you don't rush headfirst into fights. I specifically remember times you wanted me to teamfight as Anti-Mage, and we all know that simply does not work.
However I do pick mids that I gank with, and do it plenty of times that you refuse to acknowledge. I'm talking about Pudge, Puck, etc. A lot of mids are more focused on farming nowadays. Dota has changed since you started playing it.
I didn't name you, I just wanted opinions about the game here. I'm not coming here for any "validation", I just wanted thoughts about it. You were the one that chose to out yourself here over this silly argument in the first place.
Except it was, we could beat them late game, but unfortunately Drow itemized poorly for it, she could have picked up HotD first and stacked ancients and brought herself back into the game, instead she went S&Y for some dumb reason.
He's an amazing split pusher if the other teams 5-manning and you're behind. It's not the most interesting spell, but it's insanely good. Just get a force staff and a blink and you flash farm so well + you can just tp in if a fight goes down.
A real guido don't focus on a specific muscle, and just try to get huge everywhere.
tbh i don't know english names for exercises
Just went 26/1 with the 0 - 4 - 4 - 1 build on Silencer
Included a rampage and many ultras
Was very fun
Included a rampage and many ultras
Was very fun
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Is that the Slahser one or a different build?
I think the Slahser one had Lothars though.
how is skadi? I presume you toggle off glaives to get the slow and then toggle back on? seems like it might drop your dps?
We did this, it didn't work.
You're saying it's better for a team with BH to play base defense, get ganked, and choked for farm instead of trying to get a pick-off or two to utilize Track? They have 4 heroes that get in close to drow, making her ult null. BH does nothing sitting in base except use Track and Shuri... Terrible at base defense. SK has his ult which doesn't go through bkb damage wise, this making constant base defense hard vs heroes.
Their cores are QoP, Slark, and debatably Axe. Ours are Storm, BH, and Drow. We can eat them alive late game. Drow can just sit back in base and pick at Slark all day long. Hell I can zip in there and sheep him first. Axe is also a concern, but you can of course Track him and I can make sure to cancel his blink.[/QUOTE]
lol what!? You expect them to sit back and let drow hit them? You're going to constantly be stopping axes blink while Slark, Mirana, and QoP jump on Drow? The probably isn't SEEING them, it's stopping them from getting close. That lineup never had a chance to stop that if being initiated on.
This logic just blows my mind. Where do you expect this magical farm to come from if not using Track? If you're in jungle farming and Drow is pushing a lane? Anything past t2 tower is being killed by their team. Why? Because they know we're no threat to leave base, they can choke out our farm easily. Why? Because we're not putting pressure by ganking. How often can you count on someone sitting back letting you farm to catch up? Their lead, lack of vision, lack of space, lack of farm doesn't lead to easy pickoffs. You think BH can solo Slark and QoP at that point? What game are you playing?
Here in-lies your core problem as mentioned before. No adaptability. Not every hero NEEDS farm or HAS to farm. Not every situation's answer is farm. Not every lineup has the luxury of sitting back to farm. Heroes, like Storm, can be successful at ganking without farm. This is your mantra now. Why not prevent the enemy team from farming? Why not farm their heroes?
Again, no one said anything about going 'ham' or rushing headfirst into a fight. Buy a smoke, tp to a lane, look for a pickoff. It's a novel concept; but it can work in lieu of farming. I'll acknowledge the single time you attempted to gank their carry top. Was warded; but never another attempt.
Drow couldn't get to ancients after so long without fear of everyone from their team showing up. She had no space (see everything before "... farm games exist...").
Why couldn't we get to late game? Poor itemization? No; because we they were already so far ahead we couldn't stop them. Instead of trying to stop them, we tried to pace them, and lost. The probability of being able to catch back up through farming alone is very slim. Getting that one item to their one or two is a low chance to turn the game. Proof is in this game. You got your orchid, your bkb, your sheep. All the while the rest of the team was starved and got their .5 or their 1 item. Couldn't keep pace with their cores getting 2 or 3 at the same rate with our choked farm.
That isn't a team I can initiation on safely with Storm without items. Going for a pickoff was extremely difficult as they were almost always grouped, you saw in that gank I attempted but they had it warded, so there was no point, which was why I kept farming.
Yes actually, poor itemization was actually what lost us the game. Drow grabs a creep with HotD, makes those big ancient stacks, and we guard her when she's ready to go get the stack, that helps catch her back up.
If Drow had actual better early game items, she could farm up BKB or Blink and be in a lot better shape.
Also the SK was garbage, but that's beside the point.
"Look there's someone" against this team is just asking to get Blinked and Orchided or Called and then having the attempted initiation turned around easily. More farm was the only way out of this. That team is not one we can just initiate on.
Drow clearly didn't farm. We needed to ward jungle, she could take camps close to base, ancients, and catch up. She was getting bullied out of lane, she needed to leave.
You NEVER gank a lost lane, it only ends badly.
Beardz
Member
Caustic finale is good for harassing early game, then just for lane pushing / farming.
So which is it? I could have gone deso over blink (because they cost the same, right?) and picked off the squishies, or they were almost always grouped?
Also, wards can't see through smoke.
But you just said they were always together. So you want us to take a 5v5 fight when we're down in items and have ancient creep beating on us?
Again, no adaptability. Only one option to everything, right?
call_kotaku
Member
I think the proliferation of true____ subreddits is one of the strangest things about the site. It doesn't play to the system's strengths and doesn't alleviate any of its shortcomings.
The r/Games and r/gaming split was probably the most notable thing, but both reddits are equally shitty now and full of gamergate nonsense last I checked.
The Blink was useless, so yeah, going the extra mile for Deso was absolutely worth it. Go to a lane, whack creeps. Hell split push, force them to come to your lane, then you just leave as soon as you see them leave.
Sure we could go for a smoke, however Drow would have to stay behind, we needed her to stay alive for aura, she would just die first as soon as they look at her.
Blink saved me more than once from dying. And don't forget about the other point I made, or you can completely ignore your own contradiction.
Funny how they have an invis team and blinks. Can't always seem them coming. Not like the lanes were close to base. Watch the reply and see how often they came to kill people farming in lanes while you were in the jungle.
So you can only gank as SS when there is a Drow for her aura? Drow has nothing to do with you ganking another lane as mid on SS.
Anything that isolates the traps will be fine.
With lifting it's important to remember that everything works given form, consistency, and diet. Also no two people are built the same, and they will respond differently to a given exercise so it's important to take most opinions with a grain of salt. The internet lifting community loves to deal in magic bullets and absolutes, and there is just no such thing. The biggest part of the process is finding out what works for you.
In my own experience, unless they hit the genetic lottery and popped out of the womb already looking like a brick house, people who focus on isolation exercises and target a single part of the body without a solid 1-2 years of heavy compounds are treading water in terms of the gains they could be experiencing. Not only will their initial progress will be more impressive if they can build up experience through the full body movements, but later down the road they'll be able to take advantage of isolation exercises that target a single part of the body more effectively, and see results quicker.
No, my point was that the Aura would definitely help, she would need to stay back and farm while we went and made space. We can't afford to have her die again. We get revealed randomly? Drop a sentry.
SS is super mana hungry without items. Your zips are about two feet and then maybe you'll get back out if you are lucky, this is why I only take kills with him I know I can get, as it isn't worth it otherwise.
Contradictions abound. Make up your mind. Does she stay back and farm, does she hide to prevent from being ganked, does she get protected so she can farm by people who aren't farming while you're telling them to farm? It's not a good idea to let their carry farm freely when ours cannot.
You're completely ignoring logical points now. It's the same argument. "Hero_Name can't do XXX without items".
Wok
Member
I don't know how you should have played to win, but by the look of it, you lost the draft there.
They have:
- 4 blinks
- 3 BKBs
- 1 shadow blade and a global shadow blade
- one gem and sentry wards
Axe with Blink and Blademail can deal with Drow Ranger. If he does not, they have 3 other heroes to close the gap.
With the gem, your 2 invisible heroes become very squishy and useless, and they ensure you have no good vision or good teamfight initiation.
With BKBs, they can survive the spells of 3 of your heroes.
With the orchid, they can take Storm down.
Drow was counter-picked at the draft. SK and Disruptor are useless after the BKBs. Storm is mostly useless against BKBs and Orchid. BH is gank-oriented.
Shuggananas
Banned
Bounty is alright when playing even or ahead
Bounty when playing from behind is garbage.
Can't fight, can't roam, all he can do is hope to deward and catch an overconfident support who's warding/dewarding
Bounty when playing from behind is garbage.
Can't fight, can't roam, all he can do is hope to deward and catch an overconfident support who's warding/dewarding
Slahsers Lothers build is stupid and doesnt really work. I tried it twice and it just feels weak. Its cute but ultimately cheesy and not very effective in practice.
I went Treads - Orchid - Shivas - AC - Skadi and was brutalizing them. Killing CM in 2 hits and Meepo in 4
I couldnt really tell you
It arrived as we were throning.
Hylian7 and TommyT please take your domestic spat 2 PMs or something.
This thread is for gainz and anime
Why not both? Spot them out before we smoke, she finds a safe place to farm, execute gank, runs for tower if she sees trouble. Plop some sentries down too at common entryways to see the Slark coming. I haven't contradicted anything. Yeah, heroes can't do some things without items. Why try to force said things then? It's not going to work. It will never work. The answer is farming to get to the point where you can. Farm wins games, especially that one. It's that simple.
I rewatched SAO at work. It was even more weird in English when she was falling in love with her 'brother'. Better bby
? Oh, and I got hosed my first time at Which Wich and paid $18 for a sandwhich. I got some good gainz from that experience. So why didn't you do that? Because you never have X item?
It's like trying to talk to a brick wall. I even pointed out the contradictions. The fact you're making a blanket statement when it has been done countless times is just asinine. Using a smoke to bypass a ward, kill their carry in a 2v2 where we have initiation advantage is the complete opposite of 'force'.
I rewatched SAO at work. It was even more weird in English when she was falling in love with her 'brother'. Better bby
So why didn't you do that? Because you never have X item?
It's like trying to talk to a brick wall. I even pointed out the contradictions. The fact you're making a blanket statement when it has been done countless times is just asinine. Using a smoke to bypass a ward, kill their carry in a 2v2 where we have initiation advantage is the complete opposite of 'force'.
2v2 is no longer 2v2 when the QoP and Axe that you can't see blink around the corner. All you have said is "You're contradicting yourself" and haven't pointed out anything. Almost every game you want to just go fight instead of farm, I don't know how you don't think that was a farm game, because it absolutely was. Granted like others have pointed out, we clearly lost the draft, but if there was any way to win it, farming was it.
BH has invis, and a skill that can track. You know it's pretty easy to keep an eye and scout while you make your way to gank, right?
Seriously? Sigh.
Why, if we've lost the draft, would we want to then play into their hands and drag it out? Why not play to our strengths and throw them off theirs? Just because teams have equal farm, doesn't mean the teams are equal in a fight. Farming is NOT always the answer. You fail to see this, and is always why I have to push for kills in games. IIRC, this happened the last time we had a BH on the team. Farm vs gank. Might as well be 4v5 then. And granted sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. More often than not, it's a better decision than farming when we're behind.
edit: In the end, I'll acknowledge it was my mistake given the aforementioned. Previously having picked BH and no ganking occured, playing with you I should have known better than to think it would have happened the second time. Consider it a lesson learned. It's clear no amount of logic will sway you from playing a certain way with a given hero in every game situation.
SteveWinwood
Member
"Playing into their hands" is what just going and fighting them would do. They have a deathball, our objective is to get to lategame. That's all we can do, and the only hope of winning in that situation. We can try to get a kill here and there, but going and fighting them is asking for a 15 minute gg.
Fighting a team you are underfarmed against is almost always a bad idea. Now in addition to all the creeps the other team is farming, they are farming your heroes too because you are just feeding them. Playing defensive BH sucks, I know, but it's the only option, as going aggressive with it in that situation was not going to work. We all needed more farm. I mean Drow has 308 GPM, just imagine if she got another item?
Why aren't you talking in CAPS?
SteveWinwood
Member
CAPS IS FOR WINNERS ONLY CAPS NOW
I'm waiting for the part where they admit their feelings for each other and kiss
Pls, I'm not all tsundere (sp?) and moe. ALPHA BABY! #STEVESWOOD
As long as they're not blood related it's okay.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Dota 2
You picked BH which was already a problem in and of itself. BH doesn't do well from behind, and right now he's just not a very good hero in this patch. That hero just loses games most of the time right now anyway, so all you could really do was track people, as actually initiating was very difficult if not impossible.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
I couldn't help but lurk your profile a bit. Don't put more than one point on Heartstopper early unless you are getting free farm, and doing cheeky build like Radiance necro, which is really fun btw, because Sadist allows Necro to farm really fast.
I also don't recommend Aghs rush first, mostly because Necro has no disables whatsoever. Atos is great, insane INT and great health, and allows you to help a lot in fights/get kills, core on Necro imo. I tried Scythe of Vyse rush once and worked great, but I had uncontested farm.
Just my 2c.
SteveWinwood
Member
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