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[subversus]

As orc monsters go the darkspawn were pretty creepy.

they were the most generic enemy ever and this pic shows it.

New ones aren't an improvement though.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

Beat the game last night. Did about 35 hours and here's my unasked for thoughts:

Bottom Line: Game was rushed and it shows. From the unoptimized DX11 and copy pasted maps, to the unfocused, incoherent plot movements and buggy engine and quests. Sad thing is that, overall, I actually liked the game. Despite side quests getting grinding towards the end of act 2 and the boring features of Kirkwall, it was an interesting change of pace from marching across the world and trying to stop the demon/blight/mad scientist threatening to eradicate/eat/transmorgrify everything. The companions are especially rich and I could even get suckered into DLC depending on how they are incorporated. Still, I can't help but think what another year could have done for this game, given its extremely short year and a half development time. WARNING: Meaningless score coming - 7/10

I haven't beaten the game yet but so far I think I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

 

[Ickman3400]

Playing a rogue completely changed my outlook on the game's combat, especially an assassination rogue. The amount of damage I do is borderline ridiculous, and it's almost game breaking. My only regret is that someone didn't tell me how useless a Warrior was for my first playthrough.

 

[Rubezh]

New ones aren't an improvement though.

I don't know what it is, but the Dawnspawn in DA2 remind me of the Putty Patrol from Power Rangers. They all gather around in circles and flail around like idiots.

 

[Salaadin]

Playing a rogue completely changed my outlook on the game's combat, especially an assassination rogue. The amount of damage I do is borderline ridiculous, and it's almost game breaking. My only regret is that someone didn't tell me how useless a Warrior was for my first playthrough.

Assassination is ridiculous. Even some of the tougher enemies take a shitload of damage from it.

 

[Darklord]

Night Terrors spoiler

Spoiler

WAT. First I lose Bethany to the Templar's now Isabela is dead?! She's nearly full friendship as well and she fell to the desire demon. Surely she just left the fade, like inception, she's not really dead...right? If so, fuck this game for taking all the good character. Kill meril!

 

[ThingontheFloor]

Watching the credits now. Uh, the ending was pretty damn abrupt unless there's something after the credits.

EDIT: Also game took me 22 hours and I did EVERYTHING except for reading the codex entries, so yeah the game isn't very long.

Same, I think I clocked in around 25 hours total. Granted, I skipped a couple side quests at the end of Act II but only because I was so tired of the repetition but even with those, unless they all happened to open about 15-20 others, I can't imagine spending another 10-15 hours unless you're slowly and methodically inspecting every nook and cranny of the world. I still enjoyed my time with the game, and I'm actually kind of glad I beat it in the time that I did so it didn't overstay it's welcome, but I did feel disappointed after fighting a standard final boss and then having the game come to a crashing finish.

 

[Salaadin]

Night Terrors spoiler

Spoiler

WAT. First I lose Bethany to the Templar's now Isabela is dead?! She's nearly full friendship as well and she fell to the desire demon. Surely she just left the fade, like inception, she's not really dead...right? If so, fuck this game for taking all the good character. Kill meril!

Spoiler

She will be back once you leave the fade

 

[FINALBOSS]

Watching the credits now. Uh, the ending was pretty damn abrupt unless there's something after the credits.

EDIT: Also game took me 22 hours and I did EVERYTHING except for reading the codex entries, so yeah the game isn't very long.

You did EVERYTHING in only 22 hours?

The fuck? I think I was clocked at 34 and change and I did every single thing. I got up to level 22...my rogue had like 93% crit and everything.

 

[Kyoufu]

You did EVERYTHING in only 22 hours?

The fuck? I think I was clocked at 34 and change and I did every single thing. I got up to level 22...my rogue had like 93% crit and everything.

Yeah I don't know how that is even possible, unless he skipped dialogue scenes and/or played on Casual.

 

[Ickman3400]

Yeah I don't know how that is even possible, unless he skipped dialogue scenes and/or played on Casual.

I'm calling bullshit as well. On my 2nd playthrough and just came out of the deep roads after 12 hours, only about 3 hours faster than my 1st playthrough and doing everything in Act 1 both times. Skipped a lot of dialogue too.

At the very least he was playing on casual, I'm still not believing it though.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

I'm calling bullshit as well. On my 2nd playthrough and just came out of the deep roads after 12 hours, only about 3 hours faster than my 1st playthrough and doing everything in Act 1 both times. Skipped a lot of dialogue too.

At the very least he was playing on casual, I'm still not believing it though.

I did everything thing in Act 1, read through every codex entry I unlocked, and I entered Act 2 at 20 hours and change. Playing on '360 with normal difficulty.

 

[X-Frame]

Playing a rogue completely changed my outlook on the game's combat, especially an assassination rogue. The amount of damage I do is borderline ridiculous, and it's almost game breaking. My only regret is that someone didn't tell me how useless a Warrior was for my first playthrough.

Not sure why I keep reading this. While a Warrior won't do as much damage to a target as a Rogue, the Warrior frequently lands hits on multiple enemies at the same time which makes up for it.

Still, my Warrior was slicing enemies very easily with Cleave (+100% damage), Blood Frenzy from Reaver, and Adrenaline stacking from Berserker.

 

[Lostconfused]

Well since we got onto a bit of a visual/art design topic. What does everyone think of the Mabari? I thought they looked incredibly ugly the first time I saw them in DA:O but I got used to it, so the slight changes threw me off a bit.

 

[Kosma]

Beat the game last night. Did about 35 hours and here's my unasked for thoughts:

Things That Went Well:

- Companions: Better written, more nuanced and, on the whole, more interesting. Even for those character designs and personalities that I initially hated, they all grew on me. Also, I really liked the ideas of tying your companions to home bases and integrating them into the plot so that they matter not just for their combat abilities. The way their relationships between one another advanced over time was refreshing as well as old rivals slowly become close friends and so forth. Complaints I have are for not being able to advance their quests or really talk to them unless at their home base. Out of everything, your companions are probably the best part of the game. Final complaint:

Spoiler

Sarrebas (Qunari Mage)

should have been a companion.

- Skill Trees (Note: Separate from classes, see below): Honestly, I thought these were handled mostly well, making it interesting to customize individual characters around certain themes. There are complaints with the balancing and lack of certain trees (blood magic) for certain companions (

Spoiler

Merrill

), but otherwise a good attempt.

- Qunari: Everything regarding the Qunari and the Qun was brilliant. Need MORE! I was worried from the marketing they would just turn them into Orcs, but instead they kept true to the standard set by The Sten in DA:O. The writing for the Arishok is particularly well done in providing a powerful antagonist that is subtly dangerous in that he's not entirely wrong morally in what he does, just his methods.

Things That Were Hit And Miss:

- Kirkwall: From an artist's conceptual standpoint, Kirkwall is boring, uninspired, and drab. I think this might have been because they were trying to save framerate on consoles, but that's Tinfoil Hat talking. In execution, there is very little to like about Kirkwall. From a game design standpoint, I thought it was nice to have the game focus on Kirkwall, with the player making it his home, becoming part of the city, along with his companions, and making the plotlines center on his adopted home. If the city had been conceptually stronger (and larger), the focus on it would have been fantastic. Sadly, Bioware treated it more like a hub and less like how it should have been: a companion with all the associated attention to detail.

- Main Plot: It was nice not having a big epic plot, but rather a grounded one of a man/woman just trying to make a name and fortune in a new land. The plot was at its best when it went back and forth with political maneuverings between parties trying to either defeat Hawke or get the upper hand on one another. Sadly, the plot lines, with the exception of one (

Spoiler

Qunari

), all stumbled at the end in terms of impact and payoff.

- Hawke: I actually like the guy/gal, and found it easy to slip into their role. But, knowing what we gave up in DA:O (origin stories, racial choices) to get him/her makes it a solid neutral about whether it was a good move to make.

- Armor: Yeah, sucks we can't put armor on our companions. That said, I do like the conceptual armor on all of them, the upgrades, and how armor looks on Hawke. This drags it from Pear-Shaped to Hit and Miss.

Things That Went Pear-Shaped:

- Combat: ANOTHER WAVE! I can forgive the combat animations, as it doesn't affect the gameplay. I can forgive the ridiculous blood explosions and fall apart bodies, as it doesn't affect gameplay. But I cannot forgive the fucking teleporting in enemies. Further, they throw combat at you ALL THE TIME, even when it makes no sense, or has no purpose in terms of the quest/story. Time for ANOTHER WAVE! Poorly thought out, drawn up, and executed.

- Classes: I can't dual wield with a warrior now? That alone puts classes here, but the revamp of the classes to MMO style is criminal. Now a warrior is all crowd control and agro, EVEN for two-handed warriors. Nope, rogue does all the damage now, along with mages. The fact that the rogue outdamages my two-handed warrior, even in single combat, is insane.

- User Interface: ONE good thing came from this. Numbers. Now you can see what all your stats do and your skills. It lists percentages and applicable changes very nicely. Every single other aspect of the interface is a complete disaster, especially compared to DA:O. Think about that for a second. The UI for the sequel is a disaster compared to the original. All they had to do was keep it the same and it would have been much better. Can't cycle through inventory of all characters. Can't cycle through character sheets of all characters. Just one big mess.

- 'Inside' Jokes: This started in ME2 to a degree and has become rampant in DA2. You can't get any good original humor or anything else because the game is too busy recycling jokes and characters from the original game. From the bastardization of Sandal's character to

Spoiler

Alistar's 'swooping'

everything becomes trite and is handled very clumsily. Here's a tip Bioware: If the game is not a true sequel to DA:O than STOP trying to put DA:O characters into it. One or even two is one thing. But know how many characters (NPC or otherwise) show up in DA2 from DA:O? Nine. That's way too many.

- Copy Pasted Dungeons: What needs to be said. Only thing that shocked me more than their impressive ability to not make them painful until Act 2 is that they only had like 5 or 7 dungeon maps total.

- BUGS: Game locks up on me about once an hour and Merrill's quests in Act III are horribly bugged, with spoilers being caused. Easily the buggiest Bioware game I've played.

- Darkspawn: Look horrible and dance around like Power Ranger enemies. Seriously, everything about these guys, from the Troll to the removal of Genlocks was poor.

- Act I: This is one of my biggest complaints and biggest indicator of the rushed timeline. A ridiculous amount of reasonable gameplay is glossed over with exposition when it is crying out to be used. Roughly four story segments are jettisoned for story exposition by Varric. How more interesting would the game have been if we actually had a reasonable amount of time to get to know Hawke, his/her family, and the early companions before reaching Kirkwall? Instead, we get Shit Mountain, the Gallows for all of 10 minutes, and a handful of narrative cutscenes.

Bottom Line: Game was rushed and it shows. From the unoptimized DX11 and copy pasted maps, to the unfocused, incoherent plot movements and buggy engine and quests. Sad thing is that, overall, I actually liked the game. Despite side quests getting grinding towards the end of act 2 and the boring features of Kirkwall, it was an interesting change of pace from marching across the world and trying to stop the demon/blight/mad scientist threatening to eradicate/eat/transmorgrify everything. The companions are especially rich and I could even get suckered into DLC depending on how they are incorporated. Still, I can't help but think what another year could have done for this game, given its extremely short year and a half development time. WARNING: Meaningless score coming - 7/10

Very good write up. I think if this wasnt bioware this game would have been butchered by critics to be honest.

 

[subversus]

Well since we got onto a bit of a visual/art design topic. What does everyone think of the Mabari? I thought they looked incredibly ugly the first time I saw them in DA:O but I got used to it, so the slight changes threw me off a bit.

they look same to me

 

[fizzelopeguss]

The snout is different.

 

[megamerican]

I suffered through 60 hours of DAO on consoles. So "II" made a terrific first impression. It's leaps and bounds better looking and feeling than the original. As I started to settle in to the first few hours of the journey I was feeling as if this game had been given an unfair rap by players who felt jilted at the changes.

I figured the initial slow pace was intentional, that it was just ramping up to something big. Now I'm about 15 hours in and slowly closing in on the sad realization that I've been fighting through the same stock environments (that are too bland for single use) doing the same types of shit over and over. Worse, I can't say that I've been presented with much interesting choice as of yet.

There seems to be a mighty backlash brewing against this game. While I agree with most of the criticism, I just hope that Bioware addresses the issues and doesn't give up on it. Given the treatment DA2 seems to have gotten, it didn't seem like they had much vested interest in the franchise before the shitstorm.

 

[Lostconfused]

The snout is different.

Guess I just got used to the original dopey look. Its a better fit since the dog is supposed to be a humorous character.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

Guess I just got used to the original dopey look. Its a better fit since the dog is supposed to be a humorous character.

Wow, you can't see that kind of detail on '360. DA:O's dog is deffinitely superior to DA2's dog.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Think they will do more DLC? If its not selling as well, they might not.

 

[Lostconfused]

Think they will do more DLC? If its not selling as well, they might not.

Who knows. They probably are already working on it. We might not see as much DLC as there would have been if it sells bellow expectations. But I don't doubt that they will get at least something out the door.

Edit: If it sells poorly the DLC will probably be more along the lines of new outfits rather than Lair of the shadow broker. If it sells well or around their expectations than we will probably get something of that size.

 

[subversus]

the only thing awesome about this game is party banter. They need to get this writer on their games

Spoiler

see what I did there?!

If there's a reason to play DA2 then it's party banter. It gets much more hilarious after you get Isabella and pair her with Fenris or Bethanny.

 

[lastplayed]

they were the most generic enemy ever and this pic shows it.

New ones aren't an improvement though.

How do you make scary demonic creatures not generic though? We've been visualising these things for thousands of years, there are certain visual features that have to be there. But still, the original darkspawn are infinitely better.

 

[Hixx]

Dear BioWare: please release a game with an ending in the future.

There was absolutely NO payoff for 30+ hours of trudging through that story. Sack your writer, the bloke has no idea how to piece together a story arc.

Overall I enjoyed the game (I'm not going to shout about how shitty the encounter design is again, but (major spoilers)

Spoiler

the last fight being a grind much akin to an MMO boss is fucking pathetic - did you borrow the lightsaber sounds from TOR?? Oh look lets have the character who despises magic turn to it in the end, how original!!

) but I won't be buying any DLC unless it rectifies the absolutely horrendous final couple of hours with an actual conclusion. What an incredibly lazy way to finish the story.

I think that sums up this decent but very flawed game - lazy. There's rushed and then there's lazy. You can design more than 3 dungeons in the 2-3 years you had developing this game.

Man that ending has totally soured my view on the game, ha.

Also, I didn't get the achievement for completing a romance. Yet the game, throughout, always referenced my character with Isabella --

Spoiler

Varric even mentioned it in the bloody ending!

. What did I do wrong?

 

[Trickster]

Act 2 Isabella spoiler question

Spoiler

After Isabella dissapears with the relic, is she gone the rest of the game?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Guess I just got used to the original dopey look. Its a better fit since the dog is supposed to be a humorous character.

He certaintly looked more friendly than the newer one.

i still like the mabari though, a handsome hound design.

Think they will do more DLC? If its not selling as well, they might not.

Probably already done, game feels like it's had chunks of flesh ripped out of it.

 

[Hixx]

Act 2 Isabella spoiler question

Spoiler

After Isabella dissapears with the relic, is she gone the rest of the game?

Spoiler

Not at all

 

[Trickster]

Spoiler

Not at all

Spoiler

Is that regardless of whether or not you tell her she can have the relic or not?

 

[Kurtofan]

This game is quite fun and I think the quests are better than in DAO
It feels like I'm playing some sort of fantasy Gta, it's quite fun.
One thing I have to say is that the dialogs are sometimes cringeworthy(never picking a "heart option" again) or just bad.

 

[Mrbob]

Think they will do more DLC? If its not selling as well, they might not.

I'm sure the game is selling great initially. Dragon Age Origin is loved by many, so Dragon Age 2 is a blind buy. Also Bioware really hasn't done gamers wrong before Dragon Age 2. So I expect a huge first month. However long term sales are going to be hurt by terrible word of mouth. Since so many people will pick up Dragon Age 2 it is going to hurt initial sales of Dragon Age 3. Bioware is going to have to prove themselves again to many gamers they know how to make a competent RPG.

 

[Hixx]

Spoiler

Is that regardless of whether or not you tell her she can have the relic or not?

Spoiler

I'm not sure but I gave her it (+ romanced) and she returned. I'd be VERY surprised if she didnt return regardless of your choice to give it to her or not though

 

[Trickster]

Spoiler

I'm not sure but I gave her it (+ romanced) and she returned. I'd be VERY surprised if she didnt return regardless of your choice to give it to her or not though

Alright, thanks

 

[subversus]

How do you make scary demonic creatures not generic though?

yeah, that's impossible. stupid looking goblins, ogres and !TADAM! spiders are our only options.

 

[MechaX]

Spoiler

I'm not sure but I gave her it (+ romanced) and she returned. I'd be VERY surprised if she didnt return regardless of your choice to give it to her or not though

Spoiler

Actually, I was playing a FemHawke that didn't actually romance Isabella, but was still roughly around 50% friendship. I gave her the relic and despite a touching goodbye letter, she never game back for my game.

I think you must be in a romance or have a high enough friendship for it to happen.

 

[lastplayed]

yeah, that's impossible. stupid looking goblins, ogres and !TADAM! spiders are our only options.

They're tainted humans, dwarves and elves though. You can only go so far and retain that link.

 

[subversus]

They're tainted humans, dwarves and elves though. You can only go so far and retain that link.

do you want to say that Ogre is a tainted human? They must've sewn 10 humans together resistance-style to produce such a beast. Also spiders are darkspawn too I presume?

He looks very human and tainted to me:

Let's be honest - Bioware makes games generic on purpose. Elves, dwarves, spiders, walking-talking trees and of course dragons. They could put their unique touch on fantasy but decided to go mass market route, that's all.

all that said I think Qunari design and some bosses are much less generic in DA2.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

do you want to say that Ogre is a tainted human? They must've sewn 10 humans together resistance-style to produce such a beast.

Ogres are born from Qunari Broodmothers, actually.

 

[lastplayed]

He looks very human and tainted to me:

It's a nice design, but it's all costume. I don't think the darkspawn are that fashion concious.

 

[subversus]

Ogres are born from Qunari Broodmothers, actually.

that does mean that they can produce anything less generic of the same size.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I really need to get this and the first. I've played ME1 and 2 way too much.

I wouldn't mind playing with swords either.

 

[subversus]

It's a nice design, but it's all costume. I don't think the darkspawn are that fashion concious.

ok let's compare this

and this:

they're both could be made from humans. Which one looks cool though?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

that does mean that they can produce anything less generic of the same size.

*huge shrug*

ok let's compare this

Actually, if you just added horns, this would work as a Qunari Darkspawn,

 

[lastplayed]

they're both could be made from humans. Which one looks cool though?

They could come from the same game by the looks of it, just one has a pointier head.

 

[Hixx]

Spoiler

Actually, I was playing a FemHawke that didn't actually romance Isabella, but was still roughly around 50% friendship. I gave her the relic and despite a touching goodbye letter, she never game back for my game.

I think you must be in a romance or have a high enough friendship for it to happen.

Interesting. Wonder how the scene

Spoiler

where she returned in my game

would have played out. She was probably my favourite party member because she didn't whinge all the time. Her and Varric.

 

[subversus]

They could come from the same game by the looks of it, just one has a pointier head.

oh c'mon. Don't tell me that marrow fiend looks like the dude in the middle:

anyway they also had Fade creatures and they COULD take them to ANY direction. And yes, we ended up with geth-looking ones, fire elemental and undead mages.

 

[lastplayed]

The spirit form guy was pretty cool though.

And sure, I know the darkspawn are generic looking, I just don't have a problem with it. At least it fit the story and universe.

 

[Enduin]

Wow, seriously. All those so called unique enemy designs are extremely ugly and look like they came straight out of some aspiring artists deviant art page. DA universe sure isnt pushing any boundaries when it comes art direction, but I am glad as hell most enemies dont look like that crap. Ill take samey and simple character designs instead of over the top "cool' designs any day.

What game is this stuff from anyway it looks terrible. Why does the player character look like their armor is some space marine's suit with a medieval flair to it?

 

[Lostconfused]

Huh I forgot that Origins has a

Spoiler

haunted house

as well.

Edit: haha wrong guess.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

What game is this stuff from anyway it looks terrible. Why does the player character look like their armor is some space marine's suit with a medieval flair to it?

I think most of them are from Infinity Blade, and one or two are from Demon's Souls.