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[kitzkozan]

Well, it was also the first BioWare RPG on a console. Like DA:O a lot of what people loved about the game was the promise it showed. A promise largely unfulfilled by a half-finished sequel and a MMO that I personally hope crashes and burns (yes, I'm bitter like that). Plus, for a X-Box 1 limited RPG it did a lot of things right.

Yes, Star Wars licensed music and locations propelled it into a whole different stratosphere, but the game stands on it's own merits.

@ Nirolak - That hardly changes anything. At some point, when - like you said - the employees meld together, shift around and basically become one unit, it's easy to see where the heaviest influence came from based entirely on the abrupt change of projects and direction they took after being acquired.

After Mass Effect - which had to have been in some stage of already being created by that time - and the Sonic game, really ME2 was the first game that would have shown any EA influence, if there was any to be found. There was. Now, remember, while DA:O came out before ME2 it was in development a long, long time. So, DA2 showing even more of what was present in ME2 and the continued refusal to attempt to appeal to every audience at the cost of everything else, is classic EA.

Completely agree with the bolded part. Even if Bioware made it clear that they wanted a mainstream audience after KOTOR imo, there's a significant change in the design philosophy of these new games fully published under EA leadership.

I completely refuse to believe that a Microsoft published DA2 would be anywhere near as rushed even if Microsoft is run solely by business people just like EA. EA sucked before and they still do now, completely obsessed over market share, profit and "destroying" Activision by trying to appeal to every demographic out there at the cost of everything else including genre integrity. This approach has killed many talented studio in the past and could easily dig the grave of Bioware as well if TOR bomb along with the negative perception toward DA and their own ability to create quality game.

 

[kitzkozan]

Just to give an example of how much EA suck, take a game which was received well by critics like Dead space 2.

The game could of easily been greater if they had ignored the lame multiplayer aspect and instead focused on making the singleplayer more focused, polished and fulling it with better ideas. But no, you need to appeal to the Call of duty audience which crave the multi. Praising Capcom for Resident evil 5 which sold very well is also lol worthy when it's a big creative regression. Of course, EA also stated that they want Dead space to sell as well as RE5 which is 5 million+, so expect multiplayer and co-op in the next game?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I feel like the changes in Dragon Age 2, even the objectively shitty ones like the enemy waves, would be more accepted if the game had the same polish as Mass Effect 2.

While there are still many vocal opponents of ME2's changes, they are few and far between, while an overwhelming number of people (even those who liked the game) will tell you that Dragon Age 2 is deeply flawed in a way that Origins was not.

Had Bioware taken the time to truly finish the game and not just half-ass it, they could have kept brand confidence on Dragon Age up. Now it's kind of hard to get riled up by what they're doing with DA3. Even if it's the game DA2 should have been...who cares? Well, I'm sure people care, but I feel like it's basically been beaten out of me.

 

[Ushojax]

That's the thing, I think Bioware's intentions were good and making your game more accessible is never a bad thing. They just didn't have enough time. No studio on earth could possibly create a satisfying sequel to Dragon Age in the time frame EA allowed. Reasonable ideas to do with streamlining the game just ended up as corner-cutting because they so desperately lacked polish.

 

[ZombieFred]

That's the thing, I think Bioware's intentions were good and making your game more accessible is never a bad thing. They just didn't have enough time. No studio on earth could possibly create a satisfying sequel to Dragon Age in the time frame EA allowed. Reasonable ideas to do with streamlining the game just ended up as corner-cutting because they so desperately lacked polish.

Got to agree here; Dragon Age Origins had 5 years development, creating a new engine and the mythology truly shows how strong they nailed the presentation in the first game. This title barely got just over a year in development and I think they did well considering the final result. DLC could fix many things down on the line on this title, but I am sure Dragon Age 3 will get the development time it needs (two years hopefully) and they can look upon the feedback to make a great title again. DA2 is not that bad, it's got some of the best created characters they've done in a game for some time (<3 Varric)

 

[Fredescu]

*kill named guy*
*see loot pile with named guys name on it, continue fighting last wave*
*cut scene begins just as the fight ends*
*game automatically warps to another location after the cut scene ends*
*location is no longer available due to it being a specific quest location*

Fuck you, game. Fuck you.

I'm 10 hours in and I've actually been enjoying it, but that shit is seriously infuriating.

 

[hateradio]

You really should have put quotations around "specific quest location," since we all know they're actually the same recycled area(s).

Not all of them boot you that way. But there is a constant point of no return with no way to get locked loot if you forgot to bring a rogue.

 

[water_wendi]

Saw this pointed out by VD in his review thread..

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6305575/p-2.html

Text is always a pretty horrible medium for conveying sarcasm or sincerity. Being able to put a heart, as much as you could argue that you could tell, lets you say, "OK, I'm certain with this choice. I'm not making it blind." That's very important when you want to associate yourself with a character.

Laidlawl indeed.

i love how Bioware gets away with calling their fanbase morons.

 

[Alucrid]

Just to give an example of how much EA suck, take a game which was received well by critics like Dead space 2.

The game could of easily been greater if they had ignored the lame multiplayer aspect and instead focused on making the singleplayer more focused, polished and fulling it with better ideas. But no, you need to appeal to the Call of duty audience which crave the multi. Praising Capcom for Resident evil 5 which sold very well is also lol worthy when it's a big creative regression. Of course, EA also stated that they want Dead space to sell as well as RE5 which is 5 million+, so expect multiplayer and co-op in the next game?

I thought the SP was pretty great but maybe that's just me...

Saw this pointed out by VD in his review thread..

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6305575/p-2.html


Laidlawl indeed.

Psh, yeah. I mean, books? Those things suck.

 

[nubbe]

Why do Bioware make books if reading is for stupid

 

[endaround]

Saw this pointed out by VD in his review thread..

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6305575/p-2.html


Laidlawl indeed.

i love how Bioware gets away with calling their fanbase morons.

Either your fans are morons or your writers are talentless. Can't they even be honest about the dialog wheel? Just say consoles do a shitty job of presenting most text and the wheel helps to limit dealing with that. Is that really so difficult?

 

[hateradio]

Here's a visual image to make us realize that his responses are troll responses.

Either your fans are morons or your writers are talentless. Can't they even be honest about the dialog wheel? Just say consoles do a shitty job of presenting most text and the wheel helps to limit dealing with that. Is that really so difficult?

The last point could be used as a way to spin what he said in a positive way. However, he wasn't saying that it was hard to read.

 

[Songbird]

So I've played a lot of Act One, but now I've learnt the new lock picking and trap disarming mechanics I'll be starting again as a rogue to cut down on injuries (seriously, do traps always inflict injuries?) mid-fight.

With this in mind, how many tiers of device difficulty exist for locks and traps? I've seen easy and standard devices in Act One and know that each requires ten points in cunning, so 10... 20... and so on. I'd also appreciate any stat requirements for unique gear people have found so I know when I can put points into willpower and constitution. Yorke Hawke will serve as bodyguard to squishy squadmates while the tank is out getting stabbed, you see. A few extra hit points are needed.

 

[Confidence Man]

There are four levels, but you don't need to play a rogue. Isabela or Varric can do it for you.

 

[Patryn]

So I've played a lot of Act One, but now I've learnt the new lock picking and trap disarming mechanics I'll be starting again as a rogue to cut down on injuries (seriously, do traps always inflict injuries?) mid-fight.

With this in mind, how many tiers of device difficulty exist for locks and traps? I've seen easy and standard devices in Act One and know that each requires ten points in cunning, so 10... 20... and so on. I'd also appreciate any stat requirements for unique gear people have found so I know when I can put points into willpower and constitution. Yorke Hawke will serve as bodyguard to squishy squadmates while the tank is out getting stabbed, you see. A few extra hit points are needed.

There's also Complex and Master.

 

[GillianSeed79]

So at the start of Act 2 you are supposed to talk to all of your companions. There should be one of those conversations with Merrill at the start of the act, but for some reason there isn't for me.

 

[Songbird]

There's also Complex and Master.

Brilliant. So I'll need a lot for maximum dosh.

There are four levels, but you don't need to play a rogue. Isabela or Varric can do it for you.

I was hoping that, theoretically, I could plug that gap and have a team of every class and role.

 

[IoCaster]

With this in mind, how many tiers of device difficulty exist for locks and traps? I've seen easy and standard devices in Act One and know that each requires ten points in cunning, so 10... 20... and so on.

It seems like a raw 40+ cunning score should pick most locks and/or disarm most traps in the game. There are some traps that I haven't been able to detect or disarm at that level so I'm not sure what's required or if it's even possible to deal with all of the traps that you'll run into. *shrug*

 

[Zeliard]

Text is always a pretty horrible medium for conveying sarcasm or sincerity. Being able to put a heart, as much as you could argue that you could tell, lets you say, "OK, I'm certain with this choice. I'm not making it blind." That's very important when you want to associate yourself with a character.

Because nothing says 'sincere romance' quite like a heart next to the words "Come with me."

 

[Songbird]

What bugs me about the dialogue intent discussion is how I can think of a few, very simple ways to indicate "sarcasm or sincerity" without having to resort to the dialogue wheel. Don't the console ports of Origins have the A/X button symbol appear next to conversation options? Couldn't these bubbles contain the little logos Laidlaw loves so much?

There are several items that boost your cunning by 50% for purposes of traps/locks, so you'll only need to get it to 27 if that''s all you care about. AFAIK, only one of them is a dagger (Thrice-Bound), so if you want Isabela opening things be sure to buy it from the Lowtown weapon vendor in Act 1.

Past that, I believe the highest weapon requirements are 42 in the primary stat (str/dex/mag), and for armor it's 30 in the secondary stat (con/cun/will).

I'll put that on my shopping list, thanks a lot.

 

[Balphon]

Brilliant. So I'll need a lot for maximum dosh.

There are several items that boost your cunning by 50% for purposes of traps/locks, so you'll only need to get it to 27 if that''s all you care about. AFAIK, only one of them is a dagger (Thrice-Bound), so if you want Isabela opening things be sure to buy it from the Lowtown weapon vendor in Act 1.

Past that, I believe the highest weapon requirements are 42 in the primary stat (str/dex/mag), and for armor it's 30 in the secondary stat (con/cun/will).

 

[Nirolak]

Completely agree with the bolded part. Even if Bioware made it clear that they wanted a mainstream audience after KOTOR imo, there's a significant change in the design philosophy of these new games fully published under EA leadership.

I completely refuse to believe that a Microsoft published DA2 would be anywhere near as rushed even if Microsoft is run solely by business people just like EA. EA sucked before and they still do now, completely obsessed over market share, profit and "destroying" Activision by trying to appeal to every demographic out there at the cost of everything else including genre integrity. This approach has killed many talented studio in the past and could easily dig the grave of Bioware as well if TOR bomb along with the negative perception toward DA and their own ability to create quality game.

Just to give an example of how much EA suck, take a game which was received well by critics like Dead space 2.

The game could of easily been greater if they had ignored the lame multiplayer aspect and instead focused on making the singleplayer more focused, polished and fulling it with better ideas. But no, you need to appeal to the Call of duty audience which crave the multi. Praising Capcom for Resident evil 5 which sold very well is also lol worthy when it's a big creative regression. Of course, EA also stated that they want Dead space to sell as well as RE5 which is 5 million+, so expect multiplayer and co-op in the next game?

I'll agree with this if you agree to call Sony the devil for these two things, since it would be nice to establish a list of horrid publishers.

"Really we’re on kind of a break right now because we really killed ourselves on this one. I don’t think people quite realize that we’ve actually made this game in 18 months and that was a longer single-player experience, a feature length movie basically in terms of the cut scenes and all of the online features in multiplayer and the co-op. And we kind of look back and said: ‘how did we do that?’ We basically went into zombie mode and just killed ourselves to do it. And so everybody’s taking a lot of time off and just recharging the battery right now."

Source: http://www.giantbomb.com/uncharted-2-among-thieves-interview/17-1478/

Not only did Sony force them to insanely burn out trying to shove multiplayer into a giant singleplayer game in 18 months, now they're forcing them, on the same ridiculous schedule, to make a gigantic multiplayer mode. I'd like to note that this development schedule is actually a hell of a lot less than Dead Space 2 had also.

Finally, Wells stressed that much time and effort is being lavished upon expanding Uncharted’s online multiplayer and co-op capabilities, too; expect more details to come in the coming months.

Source: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/12/09/uncharted-3-first-look/

Yet for some reason people are always praising Sony as a great publisher.

 

[Lostconfused]

ODST isn't really a rushed game though is it? I mean yes Microsoft put Bungie under the contractual obligation of making another Halo game. But all in all it wasn't actually horrible pile of trash.


Edit: On the other hand Crackdown 2 is a perfectly valid example.

 

[Stallion Free]

Damn, Nirolak just laid down the gauntlet.

 

[Nirolak]

ODST isn't really a rushed game though is it? I mean yes Microsoft put Bungie under the contractual obligation of making another Halo game. But all in all it wasn't actually horrible pile of trash.


Edit: On the other hand Crackdown 2 is a perfectly valid example.

They couldn't put matchmaking into Firefight even because they had no time.

After what seems like forever after coming out, Bungie finally admits the sting of regret after excluding a matchmaking service for it’s Firefight mode in Halo 3: ODST because there wasn’t enough time to put it in (snicker, snicker). Bungie Community honcho, Brian Jarrard had this to say on the matter:

I regret not being able to go back and make Firefight in ODST work and have match-making. I think we would have loved to have done that. We’ve heard it from the fans, we’ve heard it from the press. It’s definitely something we’d have loved to be able to do but we didn’t have the scope on the project. We didn’t have the time.

We accomplished a tremendous amount, but that’s probably the reason ODST isn’t being played as much right now as we’d like. It has had a shorter lifecycle than any of the Halo titles before. But Reach is our big chance to make up for some of those things.

Source: http://gamerant.com/halo-odst-bungie-regrets-matchmaking-firefight-trung-10955/

It was a very shortly done project that originally had almost no people, but was forced into a $60 title at the last moment. They pulled off finishing the singleplayer, but this is why there was no real multiplayer in the title despite the full price.

 

[subversus]

People need to realize that all public-traded publishers are horrible to their devs if we talk about schedule. It's obvious given the nature of their financial backing.

Bethesda and Valve have their own time.

 

[Xilium]

It seems like a raw 40+ cunning score should pick most locks and/or disarm most traps in the game. There are some traps that I haven't been able to detect or disarm at that level so I'm not sure what's required or if it's even possible to deal with all of the traps that you'll run into. *shrug*

40 is all you need according to the in-game codex (Simple=10, Standard=20, Complex=30, and Master=40) but as far as traps go, some of them just seem bugged. Even if I can noticeably see the raised floor (typically the the "ruins" style dungeon), the game wont let me select it.

Also, I think some of you are really drinking the Bioware kool-aid if you think EA is the root of their problems. EA isn't helping with the time constraints, but the design philosophies for these games is coming from solely, and proudly, from Bioware.

 

[Lostconfused]

They couldn't put matchmaking into Firefight even because they had no time.

That still did not result in as severe reduction in quality of the end product as it did with DA2.

It was a very shortly done project that originally had almost no people, but was forced into a $60 title at the last moment. They pulled off finishing the singleplayer, but this is why there was no real multiplayer in the title despite the full price.

The price point is a somewhat different discussion though. There are many games that probably shouldn't be sold at $60 and yet they are being anyway or some games try to cram in multiplayer and other features in an attempt to justify the $60 price tag.

 

[Nirolak]

That still did not result in as severe reduction in quality of the end product as it did with DA2.


The price point is a somewhat different discussion though. There are many games that probably shouldn't be sold at $60 and yet they are being anyway or some games try to cram in multiplayer and other features in an attempt to justify the $60 price tag.

Right, I'm not saying that Dragon Age 2 wasn't rushed to the point of notable detriment, I was just disagreeing with the proposition that Microsoft doesn't rush games.

I mean, even if we want to take a longer example, Gears of War 2 launched with horrendous, crippling multiplayer bugs that CliffyB agrees set up the potential to kill the series, and that is definitely a development time issue.

They ended up giving the sequel more time, but only after it blew up in their face when they didn't.

 

[Lostconfused]

Right, I'm not saying that Dragon Age 2 wasn't rushed to the point of notable detriment, I was just disagreeing with the proposition that Microsoft doesn't rush games.

I mean, even if we want to take a longer example, Gears of War 2 launched with horrendous, crippling multiplayer bugs that CliffyB agrees set up the potential to kill the series, and that is definitely a development time issue.

They ended up giving the sequel more time, but only after it blew up in their face when they didn't.

I honestly don't follow Halo or Gears franchises that closely. I play the games and enjoy them but I never pay attention enough to notice the fan backlash or to know what the complaints were exactly.

For some reason I just think that Microsoft wouldn't push out a product in the state that DA2 was. Maybe it is because Bungie and Epic are developers of a higher caliber and they managed to accomplish more in the time they were allotted. I guess I am just under the impression that the scope of the project or the time frame would be adjust to produce a better end result even if it does end up being rushed to market somewhat early.

 

[Nirolak]

I honestly don't follow Halo or Gears franchises that closely. I play the games and enjoy them but I never pay attention enough to notice the fan backlash or to know what the complaints were exactly.

For some reason I just think that Microsoft wouldn't push out a product in the state that DA2 was. Maybe it is because Bungie and Epic are developers of a higher caliber and they managed to accomplish more in the time they were allotted. I guess I am just under the impression that the scope of the project or the time frame would be adjust to produce a better end result even if it does end up being rushed to market somewhat early.

I agree with you that the scope management was absolutely terrible.

They tried to reboot the combat system, reboot almost all the art assets, make a game they thought was longer than Mass Effect 2, and change their game structure for the first time in nearly a decade all in an eighteen month development cycle. While they did have twice the team size as Origins, there still was no where near enough time to do this.

Had they just taken Awakening and added another year of development with this larger team, we probably would have gotten a Dragon Age 2 that was significantly better.

 

[D2M15]

Not only did Sony force them to insanely burn out trying to shove multiplayer into a giant singleplayer game in 18 months, now they're forcing them, on the same ridiculous schedule, .
to make a gigantic multiplayer mode.

I wouldn't bother to correct this if it wasn't that people tend to take GAF mods seriously, but none of Naughty Dog's development choices were 'forced' upon them by Sony.

 

[Nirolak]

I wouldn't bother to correct this if it wasn't that people tend to take GAF mods seriously, but none of Naughty Dog's development choices were 'forced' upon them by Sony.

Right, I agree.

I'd also suggest that adding multiplayer to Dead Space 2 was not EA.

However, no one can ever truly know, so we can argue any scenario we want should it fit our position. This is why I feel arguments about who added features never make any sense unless we have an actual statement indicating forced feature sets.

 

[D2M15]

Right, I agree.
I'd also suggest that adding multiplayer to Dead Space 2 was not EA.

My bad for not reading your response properly.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

I sorry GAF!

I played the PS3 demo, which was absolute fucking shit.

Had some time with the PC ver, and I'm glad to say it is vastly better.

Graphics are silky smooth on my rig, loading is very very minimal, and the changes to the combat speeds things up considerably. All the classes are useful from what I've tried and have a good mix of skills for crowd control. Not sure if there's still an auto-win class like arcane warrior though...

No more enemies that have uber health and immune to skills now cept for bosses, which is as it should be.

Biggest complaint is the fragmented dlc, slightly repetitive nature of combat, and dull story.

1 Fuck taking a half hour plus to get dlc 'on disc'. They need a better way to implement this.
2 Would prefer less stun, button mash, stun, button mash, etc. I want more strategy and less Diablo.
3 So far I don't care about any of the characters and the narrative really lacks focus. A lot of the quests are 'go here, kill that, end, or bring item to place, end'. Maybe I'm spoiled, but I don't want to solve everything through bloodshed. I preferred the simpler, but tighter focus on the Archdemon.

 

[The Last Wizard]

just got the game and was wondering since i cant change the default hawke's hair, if i chose default hawke would i be able to change their hair in the black emporium?

 

[Lostconfused]

It just brings up the character creator. So the answer is no.

Unless you have a pc version and get some mods for it.

 

[The Last Wizard]

It just brings up the character creator. So the answer is no.

Unless you have a pc version and get some mods for it.

thanks anyway.

why the hell would they lock pre sets, that really stupid

 

[X-Frame]

Just finished my play through supporting the Templars. No way I'm supporting the Mages again.

Though that might be weird since I'm about to start a Mage play through. Heh.

 

[Lostconfused]

Just finished my play through supporting the Templars. No way I'm supporting the Mages again.

Well considering that every mage turns out to be a blood mage psychopath killer and/or an abomination. You have to admit the templars are right.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Well considering that every mage turns out to be a blood mage psychopath killer and/or an abomination. You have to admit the templars are right.

BUT THEY HAD NO CHOICE! They where pushed to use it because they where accused of using it anyway!?

They hit you with that excuses hard. At least there are a few cases of nice mages, but not enough.

 

[HadesGigas]

Well considering that every mage turns out to be a blood mage psychopath killer. You have to admit the templars are right.

Hey no. There was Bethany! And uhhh....

...Oh, that one guy who was just

Spoiler

pretending to be a blood mage because he wanted to get laid! (Though he seems fairly likely to give in to a desire demon should he ever encounter one.)

Though seriously there were a handful of other ones too, mostly ones you could decide to kill/turn in/set free. Some of them send you letters and stuff. Still very outweighed by the blood mages though.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Just finished my play through supporting the Templars. No way I'm supporting the Mages again.

Though that might be weird since I'm about to start a Mage play through. Heh.

Why is that? Aren't they trying to wipe out the mages or some shit?

 

[shintoki]

I honestly don't follow Halo or Gears franchises that closely. I play the games and enjoy them but I never pay attention enough to notice the fan backlash or to know what the complaints were exactly.

For some reason I just think that Microsoft wouldn't push out a product in the state that DA2 was. Maybe it is because Bungie and Epic are developers of a higher caliber and they managed to accomplish more in the time they were allotted. I guess I am just under the impression that the scope of the project or the time frame would be adjust to produce a better end result even if it does end up being rushed to market somewhat early.

Certain developers are just better at working on a short rope. But there is also the scope of what they are aiming for too.

 

[Rufus]

Just finished my play through supporting the Templars. No way I'm supporting the Mages again.

Though that might be weird since I'm about to start a Mage play through. Heh.

Doesn't make them any less idiotic. I wanted to walk away more than anything instead, but I ended up picking the mages, if only because I was one myself. And then the end of the game happened.

Spoiler

Still cannot believe the idiocy of the whole set-up. A blood mage killed Hawkes mother and several other women for his perverse desires. That ought to be enough reason to make a choice on, but no, it's apparently not obvious enough, so let's bend the fiction over a table and make it laughably easy for mages to turn into abominations, so that there's no fucking way someone in their right mind could sympathize with them. To hammer it home even more, we'll have Orsino turn even if you chose the mages. He's also co-operated with the serial killer.

That's some narrative strength there, Bioware.

 

[HooYaH]

Just finished the game. The game probably needed 6-8 more months in dev time which I would have gladly waited.

Quite odd Nvidia is mentioned in the Credits but not AMD(unless I missed it) even though the game runs like crap on release.

 

[endaround]

The last point could be used as a way to spin what he said in a positive way. However, he wasn't saying that it was hard to read.

I know he wasn't, but one of the main reasons for the wheel is to limit the amount of text that needs to be shown on the screen at one time. Especially since technically all of the text needs be readable on SDTVs though there is some argument as to how strict MS and Sony are with that these days.

 

[Yopis]

Wow Im liking game a lot better after ACT1. The first act was all over the place and almost made me quit tbh. Feel its getting better now. Game just needed more time is all.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

You know, for all the talk about how the dialogue wheel makes your intentions clear with the icons, am I the only one who often did not understand what a symbol was supposed to mean and just took a guess?

Like, someitmes it would be a star, or a piece of sage, or a gavel. But the gavel was different from the fist which was different from the swords even though they were all outlined in red.

I understood the comedy mask, understood that sage was friendly, and hearts meant what you'd think. Everything else was way more confusing than any dialogue choice I had in DA1.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

I think the different icons just represent whether it is a moral answer or not. The gavel is just being stern/unfriendly whereas the fist meant there was a more mean/renegade response. That's how it seemed to me at least. There might be some D&D "Chaotic good" or whatever feeling to it but I don't really know.