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[Gvaz]

It's not unreasonable to be upset (well, frustrated) that they're changing so much of DA2, especially where there was only a few things wrong with it (to me). Generally speaking, if a game comes out called X Game 2, I expect it to be pretty much the same, barring some improvements. If it's going to be a different game, just call it such.

I'm replaying it with some mods now (tactics, face mods, skip fade and ostagar, etc) on nightmare, and it's a hoot. Left lothering and it's challenging but not very hard. I like it a great deal, but at the same time I can see some things they improved in DA2. It's everything else they "improved" I don't like at all.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

So one guy out of how many working on the project quit? One guy. You'll excuse me if I don't light myself on fire and hurl myself at the Bioware building.

A lead designer is a significant person.

 

[ceski]

So one guy out of how many working on the project quit? One guy. You'll excuse me if I don't light myself on fire and hurl myself at the Bioware building.

If the lead designer of a game telling you that he doesn't want to work on the sequel doesn't convince you, then maybe try this on for size:

BioWare: We Want Call of Duty's Audience

Speaking to NowGamer Melo said: “We have data that shows there are a lot of people that enjoy playing RPGs although they won’t necessarily call them RPGs. They’ll play Fallout, Assassin’s Creed and even Call Of Duty, which have these progression elements – you’re putting points into things – but they don’t necessarily associate that as an RPG. So we think that if we expand that out we’ll attract a much bigger audience.”

“They'll play Call Of Duty but they don't necessarily associate that as an RPG”

Let's face it: Dragon Age 2 is an RPG being marketed, designed, and partitioned (via DLC) in a way to attract people who don't like RPGs.

 

[TheChaos]

I think they really did themselves a disservice making the first Dragon Age so big and epic. Its obvious all of the design decisions for the 2nd game were made in order to not have a dev cycle longer than 2 years.

I could handle the game being so small if they actually decided to put thought and detail into the city and areas you go to instead of everything looking really dull and cut-and-paste. You know, make it look interesting. FF12 did big cities right, and there were 5 of them. Bioware has no excuse.

 

[Durante]

Thread is pretty much all of BrainlessGAF jumping to wild baseless conclusions.

That's just untrue. There are plenty of well-reasoned concerns and criticisms here, some based on the demo and some based on the full game (by those who got it early).

 

[Squire]

If the lead designer of a game telling you that he doesn't want to work on the sequel doesn't convince you, then maybe try this on for size:

BioWare: We Want Call of Duty's Audience



Let's face it: Dragon Age 2 is an RPG being marketed, designed, and partitioned (via DLC) in a way to attract people who don't like RPGs.

And this is bad because...?

 

[ceski]

And this is bad because...?

Because consoles

 

[Zeliard]

And this is bad because...?

Because pandering to the widest possible audience almost always results in demonstrably shittier products, as they are designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator - the shithead.

 

[gdt]

If the lead designer of a game telling you that he doesn't want to work on the sequel doesn't convince you, then maybe try this on for size:

BioWare: We Want Call of Duty's Audience



Let's face it: Dragon Age 2 is an RPG being marketed, designed, and partitioned (via DLC) in a way to attract people who don't like RPGs.

omg the horror

 

[Kinspiracy]

If the lead designer of a game telling you that he doesn't want to work on the sequel doesn't convince you, then maybe try this on for size:

BioWare: We Want Call of Duty's Audience



Let's face it: Dragon Age 2 is an RPG being marketed, designed, and partitioned (via DLC) in a way to attract people who don't like RPGs.

No it isn't. It's being designed and marketed to people who didn't necessarily enjoy Origins. It has nothing to do with the game not being an RPG anymore. That's just a ridiculous statement.

 

[Cetra]

Honestly, based on playing the 360 demo and watching streams of the 360 version, I think overall DA2 will be better than DA:O. It looks better, and plays better, end of story. All the stuff that made DA:O combat tactical and strategic is still there. All thats really changed is a more defined art style that isn't generic fantasy land, and making the combat feel more like combat as opposed to moving miniatures around a D&D grid. Oh and voiced main character, THE HORROR.

I'm quite shocked to see all the whining about the graphics as well. DA:O was by no means the prettiest game of 2009. It looked good, but was no Crysis. DA to me is all about the characters and world. And IMO Bioware are far better world builders than storytellers, one needs look no further than the Galactic Codex in both ME1 and ME2 to see this. Graphics I could honestly care less about.

And all this whining about auto-attack? WTF, really? You all know you can turn auto-attack on, right? It's like each page a mountain out of a mole hill. But the OP encourages it, so that's no surprise.

The only thing I worry about with DA2 is if the cast can live up to the cast of DA:O. Morrigan, Alistair, Sten, your Mabari, etc. They were all interesting, entertaining, and made for some awesome banter while adventuring all over Ferelden.

 

[Squire]

omg the horror

Widening their audience! How dare they!!!

 

[Kinspiracy]

And all this whining about auto-attack? WTF, really? You all know you can turn auto-attack on, right? It's like each page a mountain out of a mole hill. But the OP encourages it, so that's no surprise.

No you can't.

 

[AcciDante]

So, if I don't have access to my DA:O save, is there any way to bring in my choices? Like just picking options in the beginning of how your playthrough went in the first game, or something. I think ME2 did that, but I'm not too sure.

 

[Kinspiracy]

So, if I don't have access to my DA:O save, is there any way to bring in my choices? Like just picking options in the beginning of how your playthrough went in the first game, or something. I think ME2 did that, but I'm not too sure.

Apparently yes.

 

[Squire]

And all this whining about auto-attack? WTF, really? You all know you can turn auto-attack on, right? It's like each page a mountain out of a mole hill. But the OP encourages it, so that's no surprise.

Oh, you would be surprised, trust me. For some it's life or death.

 

[Ulairi]

No it isn't. It's being designed and marketed to people who didn't necessarily enjoy Origins. It has nothing to do with the game not being an RPG anymore. That's just a ridiculous statement.

Building a sequel for a game for people who didn't like the game to begin with, doesn't work out that often.

 

[Squire]

So, if I don't have access to my DA:O save, is there any way to bring in my choices? Like just picking options in the beginning of how your playthrough went in the first game, or something. I think ME2 did that, but I'm not too sure.

Ironically, that has actually been implemented

 

[ceski]

No it isn't. It's being designed and marketed to people who didn't necessarily enjoy Origins. It has nothing to do with the game not being an RPG anymore. That's just a ridiculous statement.

Congrats, you just bought into marketing gobblygook. Every developer wants a piece of the Call of Duty pie; it's the reason Crysis 2 went from unique 32 player craziness to 8 player perks 'n' xp gameplay.

 

[Kinspiracy]

There sure is a lot of whining about what the game isn't, instead of what the game is. Personally if I knew I already hated a game and didn't want it, I'd avoid the OT for it. But back to whining about the right things - repetitive dungeons? WTF. Of all the things to copy from ME1 you pick cut-and-paste dungeons? And how about the public relations guys and the devs get on the same page about the auto-attack. One says its a selectable option in the console versions, one says its via the radial menu only, and another says he's not sure if its in there. Get together, find out what the real answer is, and then provide a unified voice on the matter.

 

[Gvaz]

No it isn't. It's being designed and marketed to people who didn't necessarily enjoy Origins. It has nothing to do with the game not being an RPG anymore. That's just a ridiculous statement.

Well, you said yourself "it's being marketed to those who didn't like Origins".

What about all the people who did? Are they chop liver all of a sudden?

 

[gdt]

I'm pretty bummed about the level design complaints. Same thing that hurt ME1 alot.

Everything else sounds/looks awesome, except that. They seemed to learn their lesson with ME2 (which didn't have the issue at all) dammit.

 

[Squire]

Well, you said yourself "it's being marketed to those who didn't like Origins".

What about all the people who did? Are they chop liver all of a sudden?

Just because this was made to bring in new fans doesn't mean they didn't at all consider the old.

And knowing BioWare, I'm sure that's not the case. At all.

 

[Atilac]

Any word on when the very high textures will be downloadable from bioware?

 

[Squire]

Any word on when the very high textures will be downloadable from bioware?

Day 1 of release (Tuesday).

 

[Cetra]

Any word on when the very high textures will be downloadable from bioware?

Mike Laidlaw answered that on the latest Dev Chat, seem to remember him saying that it would be available on launch.

Edit: Beaten.

 

[Atilac]

Day 1 of release (Tuesday).

no preload?
Anyword on the URL I can download it from?

 

[Gvaz]

no preload?
Anyword on the URL I can download it from?

There's a preload on the game, but not on the texture pack. It's probably going to be a 2gb download if Origins is any judge.

 

[Kinspiracy]

Building a sequel for a game for people who didn't like the game to begin with, doesn't work out that often.

If you read some of the post-mortems for Origins, you find that through their tracking they found out a huge number of people that bought and played the game only did so for an hour or so before quitting. So they set out to keep the tactical aspects of the game, but to also make the gamer feel like they were always doing something and that their controller actions were reflected on screen. People can bitch and moan about that all they want, but that's smart game design as long as it doesn't break the game, which after playing the demo it was clear that it didnt. Nor did it stop the game from being an RPG.

Complaining about the dialogue options being on a wheel instead of stacked is just funny to me. I completely understand the complaints about the demo though in regard to the fact that every single choice leads to pretty much the same exact outcome. If that's the way the entire game is, it's terrible.

They took a calculated risk when they decided to make some of these changes that they'd lose some core gamers while gaining new ones and also enticing the people that quit after an hour to come back and try the sequel. It is kinda weird that they'd make such a big change to a game that sold as much as Origins did, but not weird if the number of people that quit early in the game was large enough that Bioware feared they'd never buy the sequel if it was more of the same.

 

[ceski]

If you read some of the post-mortems for Origins, you find that through their tracking they found out a huge number of people that bought and played the game only did so for an hour or so before quitting.

This is true of many games considered classics, but, as it turns out, most gamers are complete idiots (see: any of Valve's commentaries).

There sure is a lot of whining about what the game isn't, instead of what the game is. Personally if I knew I already hated a game and didn't want it, I'd avoid the OT for it.

Telling critics to leave a thread is the equivalent of putting your head in the sand and going "lalalala I can't hear you" and sets a dangerous precedent.


But I was on my way out anyway, later sweeties.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

If you read some of the post-mortems for Origins, you find that through their tracking they found out a huge number of people that bought and played the game only did so for an hour or so before quitting.

Yep, so now they are pandering to the lowest common denominator, which rightfully upsets those of us who are not.

sets dangerous precedent.

The danger extends beyond the precedent, as I am sure we will see.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

Honestly, based on playing the 360 demo and watching streams of the 360 version, I think overall DA2 will be better than DA:O. It looks better, and plays better, end of story. All the stuff that made DA:O combat tactical and strategic is still there. All thats really changed is a more defined art style that isn't generic fantasy land, and making the combat feel more like combat as opposed to moving miniatures around a D&D grid. Oh and voiced main character, THE HORROR.

I'm quite shocked to see all the whining about the graphics as well. DA:O was by no means the prettiest game of 2009. It looked good, but was no Crysis. DA to me is all about the characters and world. And IMO Bioware are far better world builders than storytellers, one needs look no further than the Galactic Codex in both ME1 and ME2 to see this. Graphics I could honestly care less about.

Wait a) you COULD care less? B) are the graphics better or not? Because in terms of 'world-building', graphically speaking DA:O destroys DA2. It's not whining when nearly every player is pointing out same level design flaws. But then again, youve already decided that DA2 is better in every regard, end of story.

 

[Kinspiracy]

Yep, so now they are pandering to the lowest common denominator, which rightfully upsets those of us who are not.

Unless of course they did the math and the lowest common denominator was the group of people that played Origins all the way to the end. But yeah, I get your point that people who like DA1 more than DA2 are somehow superior gamers and human beings. Got it. Elitism is fun.

 

[Kinspiracy]

This is true of many games considered classics, but, as it turns out, most gamers are complete idiots (see: any of Valve's commentaries).


Telling critics to leave a thread is the equivalent of putting your head in the sand and going "lalalala I can't hear you" and is sets a dangerous precedent.


But I was on my way out anyway, later sweeties.

I didn't tell you to leave. I said if I knew already that I hated something and had no intention of buying it, I wouldn't go into an OT for that game and shit on it in front of a bunch of people that were looking forward to it or were already enjoying it. That's just me, though. If you're getting the game despite all you hate about it, then the more the merrier. Poop on it all you want. There's certainly plenty to love and hate about the game.

 

[Cetra]

Wait a) you COULD care less? B) are the graphics better or not? Because in terms of 'world-building', graphically speaking DA:O destroys DA2. It's not whining when nearly every player is pointing out same level design flaws. But then again, youve already decided that DA2 is better in every regard, end of story.

When I speak of world building I'm not talking about level design, I'm speaking about creating a worlds worth of lore and history. Which why I said to look at the Galactic Codex in the Mass Effect series for proof of that.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Based on the demo, Dragon Age 2 does not look better and certainly does not play anywhere near better than Origins. Now this news of Mass Effect 1 dungeon repeating. Ughh. I am getting this game against my better judgement. AND the shit is $60? Fuck.

 

[Kinspiracy]

Honestly, based on playing the 360 demo and watching streams of the 360 version, I think overall DA2 will be better than DA:O. It looks better, and plays better, end of story.

You have to remember that a lot of people complaining about the graphics are PC gamers, and they're right to. Check out the graphics of Origins PC and compare them to DA2 PC. Yuck. Conversely DA2 on the consoles is much better looking than Origins. Can't blame them for suddenly feeing like 2nd class citizens when they see the console version get more love shown to it. And again this is just an assumption, but I'm guessing they expect to see more console sales than PC.

 

[leng jai]

Yep, having only played DA on the PS3 DA2 looks far superior this time around, and nowhere near as janky.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I don't know man. I would hold off saying 2 is better then 1 until you actually have played it. I don't see the hate myself, but it still seems strange to claim.

But does it look better? Oh hell yes it does.

 

[Squire]

You have to remember that a lot of people complaining about the graphics are PC gamers, and they're right to. Check out the graphics of Origins PC and compare them to DA2 PC. Yuck. Conversely DA2 on the consoles is much better looking than Origins. Can't blame them for suddenly feeing like 2nd class citizens when they see the console version get more love shown to it. And again this is just an assumption, but I'm guessing they expect to see more console sales than PC.

I believe the bulk of DA:O's sales were on console.

 

[Neverfade]

Pretty pumped for this. Your tears will fuel me.

 

[Cetra]

You have to remember that a lot of people complaining about the graphics are PC gamers, and they're right to. Check out the graphics of Origins PC and compare them to DA2 PC. Yuck. Conversely DA2 on the consoles is much better looking than Origins. Can't blame them for suddenly feeing like 2nd class citizens when they see the console version get more love shown to it. And again this is just an assumption, but I'm guessing they expect to see more console sales than PC.

I can see that argument, but at the same time. I find the DA2 look to be a better fit for the feel and attitude they've been shooting for with the series thus far. DA:O had no real art style to speak of, it looked like any other generic high fantasy game. DA2 has that more distinctive art style, which I appreciate. I guess what I'm saying is that appreciate when a developer goes for a more stylistically interesting look as opposed to shooting for hyper realism all of the time, which gets old IMO; And is also the reason I can't stand 90% of FPS games.

At the same time, many of these opinions are being drawn from 30 minute demo of the opening of the game. I don't expect to see all of a games bells and whistles in a demo. We saw one area, which had been ravaged by Darkspawn, and another that was just a small peice of Kirkwall. The PC version was limited to High Graphics settings, no hi-res textures, no 16 bajillion AA, etc. Of course the game didn't look so hot, but it was far and away not the worst looking thing I've seen in the past few years.

I'm not here to change anyone's mind. I just find it shocking how much baseless mockery and misinformation is being slung against the game.

 

[vocab]

Bioware is crazy if they think they can get the dude bros to buy DA2.

 

[Squire]

Pretty pumped for this. Your tears will fuel me.

Now that's the best reaction yet.

 

[Kinspiracy]

Bioware is crazy if they think they can get the dude bros to buy DA2.

Are action RPGs the domain of dudebros now?

 

[-tetsuo-]

Bioware is crazy if they think they can get the dude bros to buy DA2.

I seem to recall someone from Bioware saying they are trying to get this to sell 10 milly.

 

[Kinspiracy]

I seem to recall someone from Bioware saying they are trying to get this to sell 10 milly.

Palette swap Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, and Princess Peach in, and tack on some waggle and you got your 10 mill.

I think I'd buy that game.

 

[Nirolak]

I seem to recall someone from Bioware saying they are trying to get this to sell 10 milly.

People keep seeming to misunderstand that quote.

Q: I enjoyed your keynote speech this morning. You mentioned that BioWare had been lucky to have a few 'minor hits'...

Greg Zeschuk: Well, not minor!

Q: I was going to say. If Mass Effect 2 is a 'minor hit', I can't wait to see a major one.

GZ: Well, we need to sell 10 million units. That's actually the new target, right? We do Top 10 games, our stuff is quite successful. I know Mass [Effect 2] is number eight so far this year, in North America. Sometimes I'm facetious when I say some of those things, knowing that we can sell a few million but seeing that someone else can sell 25. You're kinda like, 'Well, that's a hit!' We always joke that if we only do half as well as Blizzard on Star Wars: The Old Republic, we'll be quite satisfied. We've been very fortunate. I always joke about that, but...

Q: You did mention that humility is part of the BioWare business plan.

GZ: I think we know how lucky we are. When we're saying that, we always know that we're super-fortunate that we have a nice combination of things going on - really great support from EA, a budget to make great big giant games. We recognise that in a sense it's a privileged position we're in.

Source: http://www.videogamer.com/news/in_the_house_with_dr_greg_zeschuk.html

He's saying 10 million is the bar for a major hit in today's market.

 

[firehawk12]

Are action RPGs the domain of dudebros now?

No one knows who buys Dynasty Warriors games...

 

[Kinspiracy]

No one knows who buys Dynasty Warriors games...

I'm buying DA2. So by the transitive property I must also be one of the people buying Dynasty Warriors...whatever that is. I also hate shooters but loved Bulletstorm. I'm confused.