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[VulcanRaven]

I dont hate people or any group of minorities. What I do hate is companies shoving into their games politics

I am not playing games to be lectured, this is what is bothering me

But I don't hate these people, in fact I feel for them because I understand that it's been difficult and they have my support, but bringing this into videogames and making it the main focus is what is wrong.

I think most people that complains about woke stuff have this type of thinking too, some might have more extreme views but mine is basically this one and I dont think I am a bad person for thinking this way

But is it the main focus? I don't know much about this game but I highly doubt its the focus.

 

[RoboFu]

I assumed that this was about the player character because of the screenshot with the player choosing a trans identity below it, but if I was wrong about that fine.

It's still a silly thing to get upset about. What do you people do if you have an NB coworker, like are you really going to quit or get fired just because you're threatened by their pronouns? Or do you just keep it to yourself and maintain basic respectful behavior like a professional?

It's not about the character. It's the collective propaganda behind it.

You ignore it until they are throwing you in jail for using the wrong pronoun or take away your 12 year old because you won't get them on hormone blockers.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You mean your Theyfriend?

I am just having trouble understanding how this is any different than a person with a different religion or whatever

It's definitely a new dogma, pun intended.

 

[Rentahamster]

...that doesn't mean anything though, anything can be "established via psychological evaluation", like religious identity, that doesn't mean whatever is in this identity is actually real.
Unless you can point to some actual peer reviewed and thus scientifically verified chemical properties that indeed make a person without a doubt "non binary", then this identity is no different than religious dogma.

If someone tells you that they are Catholic or Mormon or Hindu or whatever, what do you think of them? Do you think they're lying? They're mistaken? They're not real? That the person is real, but their self-assessed identity is not real?

 

[OmegaSupreme]

You mean your Theyfriend?

I am just having trouble understanding how this is any different than a person with a different religion or whatever, like I might think believing Moronism is stupid but I'm not going to yell at Mormons on the street. And Mormons are probably way more interested in recruiting your kids haha. But people get really threatened by this in ways that don't make sense to me.

No? Who the fuck says theyfriend? Is that a thing?

 

[DeepEnigma]

If someone tells you that they are Catholic or Mormon or Hindu or whatever, what do you think of them? Do you think they're lying? They're mistaken? They're not real? That the person is real, but their self-assessed identity is not real?

What if they tell you that they are a cat or a deer? Where is the line drawn?

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

If someone tells you that they are Catholic or Mormon or Hindu or whatever, what do you think of them? Do you think they're lying? They're mistaken? They're not real? That the person is real, but their self-assessed identity is not real?

I don't think about them, because I don't give a shit, but if they'd start to try and convert me to their nonsense, I will indeed call it out as nonsense.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

imagine being an adult upset by this.

You are absolutely right. There is no need to be upset, just close the wallet, and move on.
Much like I already do to most games. We're experiencing saturation that would even make the 80s crash look paltry.

 

[SF Kosmo]

No? Who the fuck says theyfriend? Is that a thing?

Issa joke.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

What if they tell you that they are a cat or a deer? Where is the line drawn?

Well, what if I told you that shit is already happening?
People are all fucked up. We need to bring sanity and reason back to the bargaining table.

 

[Rentahamster]

What if they tell you that they are a cat or a deer? Where is the line drawn?

That's not the answer to the question that I asked, but in response to your question, you can prove that they're of the species homo sapiens. But calling oneself a Catholic, Mormon, or Hindu is not in the same orbit as calling oneself a different species entirely (equating those things isn't respectful of those religions and I don't think religion is a mental illness), and that sounds like an example based on an absurd slippery slope argument.

 

[Fabieter]

You mean your Theyfriend?

I am just having trouble understanding how this is any different than a person with a different religion or whatever, like I might think believing Moronism is stupid but I'm not going to yell at Mormons on the street. And Mormons are probably way more interested in recruiting your kids haha. But people get really threatened by this in ways that don't make sense to me.

I also have a problem with religions convert people all over the history, some of it was really really violent and aggressive. So DEI products are fine if jts not in your face like this.

 

[MarkyG]

Interesting. As a friend just pointed out to me, you could play as a non-binary character in Cyberpunk 2077. Just CDPR handled it so much more subtly than Bioware have.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's not the answer to the question that I asked, but in response to your question, you can prove that they're of the species homo sapiens. But calling oneself a Catholic, Mormon, or Hindu is not in the same orbit as calling oneself a different species entirely (equating those things isn't respectful of those religions and I don't think religion is a mental illness), and that sounds like an example based on an absurd slippery slope argument.

Okay, I will keep it within the same species. What if they're white and call themselves black or identify as black? Where is the line drawn?

The slope has already fallen off the cliff and is not a fallacy. Newspeak and denial won't change that.

 

[StueyDuck]

Do you remember what I said about please answering my questions before asking a bunch of your own? This isn't how discussions work. I'm answering your questions as deliberately and respectfully as possible, and only once doing so do I then produce follow-up questions. You're moving on to follow-up questions without any of us agreeing or disagreeing on the stuff that came beforehand.

Here, I'll go back in the thread and pull them up for you, so you don't have to.



Yes they're a legit source or no they're a bunch of hack frauds.
Just answer the questions directly without trying to qualify them based on what you think I'm going to say in response. This isn't Modern Day Debates. It's a video game forum.

ok i'll answer the silly questions so you can take a breath.

behaviour, can be, informed by brain chemistry... ok so now we are back at what is the chemistry then that proves non-binary? what is the makeup of the brain that scientists have found?

I answered the APA question, again I'm waiting for the data, you are right this isn't modern day debates.

you said you had the proof and i was hoping for some solid numbers and science to get into but you are trying to have a debate.

It would of been easier if you said "well it's all theoretical".

But I'm done wasting my time, when you have something of actual value to put forward I'll be interested to read it. proving non-binary exists with actual scientific evidence would be interesting.

 

[Fabieter]

But is it the main focus? I don't know much about this game but I highly doubt its the focus.

The party is also never arguing, having fun over other people. I mean having human behavior. They are really save written which is lame in a rpg.

 

[Rentahamster]

I don't think about them, because I don't give a shit, but if they'd start to try and convert me to their nonsense, I will indeed call it out as nonsense.

Is anyone trying to convert you to be non-binary? Why do you give a shit about that?

 

[digdug2]

It's not about the character. It's the collective propaganda behind it.

You ignore until hey are throwing you in jail for using the wrong pronoun or take away your 12 year old because you won't get them on hormone blockers.

This is exactly right.

Also, Dragon Age Veilguard's cartoony look is not geared toward adults. Sure it's rated M, but it's designed to look like Fortnite on purpose. And that purpose is most likely so it appeals to kids/teenagers. The game includes nudity, violence, and sexual themes -- and it also normalizes Transgenderism. I personally think that it's insidious.

 

[proandrad]

Interesting. As a friend just pointed out to me, you could play as a non-binary character in Cyberpunk 2077. Just CDPR handled it so much more subtly than Bioware have.

Explain?

 

[delfrickintree]

ok i'll answer the silly questions so you can take a breath.

behaviour, can be, informed by brain chemistry... ok so now we are back at what is the chemistry then that proves non-binary? what is the makeup of the brain that scientists have found?

I answered the APA question, again I'm waiting for the data, you are right this isn't modern day debates.

you said you had the proof and i was hoping for some solid numbers and science to get into but you are trying to have a debate.

It would of been easier if you said "well it's all theoretical".

But I'm done wasting my time, when you have something of actual value to put forward I'll be interested to read it. proving non-binary exists with actual scientific evidence would be interesting.

Im getting major deja vu vibes, arent you? Its almost like they all have the same style of debating pointlessly to wear you down

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Is anyone trying to convert you to be non-binary? Why do you give a shit about that?

What are you even saying?
Converting means following their beliefs, I don't do beliefs, I do hard, measurable, verified scientific data, and if you can't provide that then whatever you say is nonsense

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

If you noticed, so was I. The example about rocks is a counterpoint to what he said about "everything" being rooted in biology. I'm showing that no, not everything is rooted in biology, and to paraphrase my statements that reductively is to miss the point. If you're thinking that any part of my main point is supported by rocks, then go back and read the conversation chain again.

The discussion were clearly centred on human behaviour.

Nevertheless, your non-binary friends chose to 'become' non-binary. There was no inherent underlying force or process which compelled them to embrace specific pronouns.

 

[Aenima]

Well, what if I told you that shit is already happening?
People are all fucked up. We need to bring sanity and reason back to the bargaining table.

Yup, other day stumble on a youtube video where a girl identiefied as a wolf. And other that had Clown / Clownself as pronoumn just cuz she liked to use clown makeup or some shit. At least her promoumns fitted like a glove.

Now imagine games starting to shove all this mental illness down your throat.

I dont hate any group of ppl, i dont care about the game director sexual orientation / religion / race. If you make a work of fiction, keep the writing to fit the lore of the game and setting. The moment i see modern day mental illness pronoums in a fantasy medieval game, im out.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Issa joke.

You'll have to forgive me for not getting it. Weirdos come up with new horse shit all the time. It sounded plausible. I just learned "situationship"

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

They put no fantasy spin on it at all.

Imagine if in that high fantasy world, being trans or whatever wouldn't even be a talking point because it's the norm, perfectly accepted or whatever else I don't care. Instead, they are stupid enough to take their petty political quarrels into this videogame instead of seizing to opportunity to show the audience a real alternate reality. You know, like creative people would do. You can't make this up.

 

[Damigos]

imagine being an adult upset by this.

Imagine people disagreeing with you

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

If someone tells you that they are Catholic or Mormon or Hindu or whatever, what do you think of them? Do you think they're lying? They're mistaken? They're not real? That the person is real, but their self-assessed identity is not real?

You can choose to believe whatever fantasy you want. However, to expect the world to embrace your charade is another matter entirely.

 

[Fabieter]

The brainrot and downright fascism displayed by some in this topic is fucking disgusting.

Why?

 

[Punished Miku]

So this is the most woke game ever made.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

The brainrot and downright fascism displayed by some in this topic is fucking disgusting.

Fascisim lol. Okay buddy. You forgot to add chud in there.

 

[Del_X]

Shame you can't just not buy it and are literally forced into its purchase.

 

[Agent_Nobody]

Interesting. As a friend just pointed out to me, you could play as a non-binary character in Cyberpunk 2077. Just CDPR handled it so much more subtly than Bioware have.

Cyberpunk had Claire who talked about her transition and had a trans flag staring you in the face anytime you drove her truck in 3rd person. Dragon Age inquisition had Krem as a trans character and Iron Bull was pretty ‘in your face’ about it too if you talked to him.

It’s not new, it’s just become a fringe political issue.

 

[RoboFu]

Saggy tits

What did one saggy tit say to the other saggy tit?




We better get some support before people start calling us nuts.

 

[Kacho]

So this is the most woke game ever made.

It's fucking glowing with that shit

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Shame you can't just not buy it and are literally forced into its purchase.

Shame a once semi great franchise got ruined by shit writing

 

[digdug2]

The brainrot and downright fascism displayed by some in this topic is fucking disgusting.

Would you consider it fascism when the government takes your child away because your child's 5th grade teacher came to them in private about starting to take hormone blockers and didn't consult you about it? And then when you have objections to it, CPS shows up at your door?

 

[Rentahamster]

behaviour, can be, informed by brain chemistry...

Thank you. Yes, it can be informed by brain chemistry. Do you then agree that brain chemistry is a product of the brain, which is also a biological entity? And that there is a logical chain of complexity from biology to psychology?

ok so now we are back at what is the chemistry then that proves non-binary? what is the makeup of the brain that scientists have found?

I already answered that before. We don't know the specifics. We don't know a lot of great many things about the human psyche. It's very complicated.

I answered the APA question, again I'm waiting for the data, you are right this isn't modern day debates.

Ehh, that was a yes or no question, and your answer was a lot of words that didn't include either a yes or no. But for simplicity's sake, I'm going to assume that you said yes, you trust the APA as a science based organization that is generally a valid resource regarding psych stuff.

If you search for "non binary" on the APA website, there are a lot of references that acknowledge non-binary as real thing that is considered when evaluating people.

APA Search Results

Search all of APA's website. Our mission is to advance the creation, communication and application of psychological knowledge to benefit society and improve people's lives.

www.apa.org

In this resolution, for example, they talk about all sorts of issues relating to non binary and other identities. https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-sexual-orientation-parents-children.pdf

There isn't any reason to talk about protecting people in these categories if these categories don't exist.

you said you had the proof and i was hoping for some solid numbers and science to get into but you are trying to have a debate.

I think you're reading too much into what I did and didn't say. You're looking for some kind of blood test or cell marker? This topic is more complicated than that. Do you acknowledge the identity of gay people? Do you require some kind of cell marker test to prove to you with enough confidence that they are actually in fact gay?

It would of been easier if you said "well it's all theoretical".

That's not what I'm saying though, and if that's your summary of what you think I'm saying, that's not accurate.

But I'm done wasting my time

Sorry to hear that you think it was a waste of time. I don't think so. Thank you for responding.

 

[FalconPunch]

Imagine being so narcissistic that you have to tell everyone how to refer to you in the 3rd person, so when you're not there. I'm not going to rewrite centuries of english grammatical structure because a small divergent minority of the population requests that I do so. Now, is that the reason Dragon age is shit? No....

 

[Revolutionary]

The director of the game is a trans dude. I'm not surprised at all that the game is like this.

But as I've said before, Bioware fans have always been this level of degenerate (Re: discussing the intricacies of having sex with alien species, etc.) so it will probably sell well enough. Definitely not Inquistion numbers, though...

 

[ReBurn]

This is what I mean when I talk about non-binary people portrayed in media lacking self-deprecating humor that has helped assimilate all kinds of folks into our culture.

Jeez, the persecution complex...

 

[simpatico]

This is how you know it's a kink for a lot of these people and not some handicap you're born with. If that were the case, you would just play as the gender you wished you were born as. I had a pretty gnarly stutter the first half of my life but when I was playing Neverwinter Nights I never imagined my player character having one.

 

[Agent_Nobody]

Would you consider it fascism when the government takes your child away because your child's 5th grade teacher came to them in private about starting to take hormone blockers and didn't consult you about it? And then when you have objections to it, CPS shows up at your door?

When has this actually happened in reality?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

imagine being an adult upset by this.

Imagine thinking this isn't anything but mental illness.

 

[ebevan91]

This is how you know it's a kink for a lot of these people and not some handicap you're born with. If that were the case, you would just play as the gender you wished you were born as. I had a pretty gnarly stutter the first half of my life but when I was playing Neverwinter Nights I never imagined my player character having one.

I've always thought this. If you were born a male and want to be a female then why not just play a female character?

 

[kapshin]

Ones and fucking Zeros causing all kinda talk

 

[clarky]

Right then, whose taking the hit and getting this? I'd like to know an opinion from someone on here.

 

[FalconPunch]

The director of the game is a trans dude. I'm not surprised at all that the game is like this.

But as I've said before, Bioware fans have always been this level of degenerate (Re: discussing the intricacies of having sex with alien species, etc.) so it will probably sell well enough. Definitely not Inquistion numbers, though...

Not surprised, then again we've seen a serious over representation of LGBTQ+ in games.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

Thank you. Yes, it can be informed by brain chemistry. Do you then agree that brain chemistry is a product of the brain, which is also a biological entity? And that there is a logical chain of complexity from biology to psychology?


I already answered that before. We don't know the specifics. We don't know a lot of great many things about the human psyche. It's very complicated.


Ehh, that was a yes or no question, and your answer was a lot of words that didn't include either a yes or no. But for simplicity's sake, I'm going to assume that you said yes, you trust the APA as a science based organization that is generally a valid resource regarding psych stuff.

If you search for "non binary" on the APA website, there are a lot of references that acknowledge non-binary as real thing that is considered when evaluating people.

APA Search Results

Search all of APA's website. Our mission is to advance the creation, communication and application of psychological knowledge to benefit society and improve people's lives.

www.apa.org

In this resolution, for example, they talk about all sorts of issues relating to non binary and other identities. https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-sexual-orientation-parents-children.pdf

There isn't any reason to talk about protecting people in these categories if these categories don't exist.


I think you're reading too much into what I did and didn't say. You're looking for some kind of blood test or cell marker? This topic is more complicated than that. Do you acknowledge the identity of gay people? Do you require some kind of cell marker test to prove to you with enough confidence that they are actually in fact gay?


That's not what I'm saying though, and if that's your summary of what you think I'm saying, that's not accurate.


Sorry to hear that you think it was a waste of time. I don't think so. Thank you for responding.

They have been designated a special category as there is such a large number of individuals who are choosing to self-identify as non-binary, likely as a result of social conditioning.

If you visit tribes in Africa, being non-binary or transgender would be considered an utterly insane concept.

 

[Valt7786]

This is how you know it's a kink for a lot of these people and not some handicap you're born with. If that were the case, you would just play as the gender you wished you were born as. I had a pretty gnarly stutter the first half of my life but when I was playing Neverwinter Nights I never imagined my player character having one.

This. If you are trans and consider yourself female, why do they need to go by "Im a trans female"? Surely you just believe you're a woman? So when it comes to these character creators, just pick female?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Spoken like somebody who's literally never been to a coffee shop.

What is this supposed to mean?