Icyflamez96
Member
I didnt say he was being any more of an idiot. I just said it was an idiotic act from Goku period.
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Dragon Ball Super |OT8| There is no justice or evil, only survival or erasure.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
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I didnt say he was being any more of an idiot. I just said it was an idiotic act from Goku period.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Fair enough, but others are saying that Goku is being dumber than normal this arc, so I guess my post still stands, just not directed at you.
Sony
Nintendo
To be fair, during his fight with Raditz he was younger and he hadn't fought sleazy deceivers before if I'm not mistaken. You would expect him to become a bit wiser after fighting Raditz, Vegeta, Cpt. Ginyu, Frieza, Cell and Buu, all of which used dirty tactics and/or abused Goku's trust. So it's not really fair to compare beginning of Z Goku with current Goku.
And yes, he does seems dumber now. He's lucky Hit didn't kill him. He's lucky Frieza didn't kill him. He's been lucky during the ToP. This is in stark contrast with Cell saga Goku and the Goku that fought Majin Vegeta.
ArchedThunder
Banned
The same Goku that fought Majin Vegeta and let the fight go longer than it needed too because he wanted a good fight with Vegeta, a man who just killed a ton of innocents, even though he could have just ended it with SSJ3, and then Buu was revived because he let the fight go on longer than it needed to.
Sure the episodes looked nice and had good interactions but most of the people against Frieza's return was because it makes no sense to bring someone back who will clearly betray you during the tournament the first chance he gets.
The fact that Goku continues to be this stupid after all this time is just so grating. You'd expect some sort of character development or for him to actually execute his good judge of character but nope, he needs to bring him back because of future plot elements that will most likely feel unsatisfying.
This was Goku's first time interacting with Raditz and you'd still imagine he's naive. It's some of the first episodes of Z. He let his good nature get the better of him because it's his brother.
And with Majin Vegeta, Goku had known Vegeta for a long time at that point and with his relationship with Bulma and Trunks, he believed the good Vegeta was still inside so it makes sense he'd drop his guard against someone he considers a friend. But I'm not really going to justify the Buu arc because it was largely a mess.
Both situations are stark differences to him bringing back the most evil tyrant he's ever faced who enslaved his race for a tournament. Why couldn't Beerus have been the one to order Frieza's addition to the team? It would've made a lot more sense and would've been a greater source of friction than what there is now.
Or the fact that he is consistently helping other universes even though he knows that his universe faces imminent extinction. It just isn't believable and isn't within Goku's character no matter how many times you tell yourself that.
You'd like to think after DB, DBZ and now 4 arcs into Super, Goku would've shown enough character development to not make such obviously nonsense decisions.
Romars202129
Member
Am I out of the loop, or is that the first full body reveal of the U6 namekians?
Are the invisible fighters forms revealed here too...?
Undead Fantasy
Member
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
Interesting image on the right. Last remaining fighters?
Icyflamez96
Member
Vegeta charges at the grand priest confirmed
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
Gowasu better bring out his camera next episode
Pretty much lol I hope Mario Castañeda in the dub at least manages to make him more likeable
Romars202129
Member
Also 17's transformation confirmed, he has a moderately sized Giant form.
Still, a weird way to reveal some stuff.
Also That weird dark blue thing doing the high kick looks different, one of the hidden fighters?
Left of Bergamo
RocknRola
Member
I'll add to that by saying that the whole Red Ribbon Arc + the fights with Tao Pai Pai were training with the "douchiest of douchebags that'll double cross you at every turn". So even the whole Raditz ordeal was silly after DB, Goku already knew he couldn't trust people that wanted to kill him/do him harm (as if that needs to be learned to begin with >.>).
Goku being dumb as a brick and way too trusting is something that's always been there, sometimes more and sometimes less.
Icyflamez96
Member
All the people in the back would be the giants.
He fought both Picollo didn't he i say he's way past being naive
RocknRola
Member
He should, but nope. Gotta "n_n" and just course correct after the damage has been done I guess.
At the same time, if they didn't change these aspects during the final 3rd of DB, during Z and now during Super it's about time we stop expecting them to be changed. It's how he'll always be, dumb and overly trusting.
Sony
Nintendo
Good points, but with regard to not going SS3 against Majin Vegeta, he could have one shotted him, but then he wanted to snap Vegeta out of his Majin ass, and it worked. Who knows what would have happened if he'd defeat Vegeta and he'd stay Majin. At least Goku knew that he could go SS3 in case Buu hatched in order to defeat Buu. Getting Vegeta back was his priority I guess. Goku always has been a talker "stop this, please stop etc." This is the theory from my ass.
I'm not saying he didn't do dumb things in Z, but it's not nearly on the same level as Super. He turned his back to Frieza... The dude that killed Krillin, fired an energy wave at Goku from behind him on Namek, tortured and nearly killed Gohan during RoF, and destroyed the Earth without hesitation. Then, after witnessing him murder the Goombas with his Omega beams, Goku still has the idea to turn his back to Frieza.
Then there is him hiring Hit to kill him. Then there is carelessness during the ToP arc. Like, it's in Goku's characters to actually be the cause of ToP, but once he's in a fight with that high if stakes, I don't remember him being that careless.
Fulminator
Member
Pretty much, it's a lot easier to remember all the cool shit Goku has done rather than the dumb shit
Although people never forget that he have cell a senzu bean lol
The thing is Goku hasnt Changed in dbsuper, he made stupid things in DBZ but most of them are reverted or the consequences aren't so bad, in super he's acting like he always do, but some things so far had consequences that he cant fix, so people are angry not with old Goku, he's the same. But with one of two things a) its not always ends with good consequences. b) Goku didnt Changed his personality.
Goku Will not Change, and its cool that now somethings sometimes cant be fixed.
Goku Will not Change, and its cool that now somethings sometimes cant be fixed.
RocknRola
Member
I think that's more memorable not only because it's dumb (it's super duper dumb) but also because it's suuuuuch a dick move towards his son lol
I literally yelled out "WHAT!" when he did that in the TFS dub of that episode, even though I am 100% familiar with the source material and knew it was coming.
It's that amazing.
Huh? Why is this an example
Master Yoshi
Member
Is Super pushing a hidden narrative that Goku is the biggest threat to his own universe?
I can't bring myself to root for Goku in DBS like I could in DBZ. His lust for power and combat is now causing the erasure of all other universes. Regardless of whether or not the Super Dragonballs can restore what has been erased, the fact that it's currently unknown and Goku is still willing to eliminate everyone in this tournament is horrifying.
I feel like this was very foreshadowing:
As well as most other Gods of Destruction and Kais blaming Goku for the tournament.
Did Goku feel nothing when he saw that he caused this?
How will he feel when this happens to Universe 6?
I can't bring myself to root for Goku in DBS like I could in DBZ. His lust for power and combat is now causing the erasure of all other universes. Regardless of whether or not the Super Dragonballs can restore what has been erased, the fact that it's currently unknown and Goku is still willing to eliminate everyone in this tournament is horrifying.
I feel like this was very foreshadowing:
As well as most other Gods of Destruction and Kais blaming Goku for the tournament.
Did Goku feel nothing when he saw that he caused this?
How will he feel when this happens to Universe 6?
Actually, it has been stated multiple times that these universe would have been silently erased anyway, and Goku is not an evil for pushing this forward, but rather helps the universes by giving them a chance.
Which, to be honest, is a bit of a copout. I liked it better when Goku's actions lead to this, but they clearly did not. It was stated. He did not call for Zen-chan INITIALLY. He interrupted the U6vsU7 jam. Oh, and Goku was not looking for Beerus either - it was the other way around.
Which, to be honest, is a bit of a copout. I liked it better when Goku's actions lead to this, but they clearly did not. It was stated. He did not call for Zen-chan INITIALLY. He interrupted the U6vsU7 jam. Oh, and Goku was not looking for Beerus either - it was the other way around.
Sony
Nintendo
Because it's idiotic and Goku is lucky to be alive.
They were, for a brief moment. Then then backed down to "Son Goku gave us a chance to live!". A bit of a bummer... Toppo and Goku's first meeting was really interesting too; Toppo out right called Goku evil and Goku expressed excitement over being the bad guy. I don't think Toei will go through with it and it'll just hang in the air to give Jiren a reason to resent Goku for now.
Reivaxe
Member
I don't think it's gonna happen to 6.
I'm in the camp that thinks the tourney is gonna get cut short by the clear evil that is the GP and his fuckery.
That way they don't have to deal with Goku killing off friends (hey, it's clear they're damn friendly) from another universe.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
Frost sure was friendly towards Krillin
Master Yoshi
Member
I hope not. Hopefully Frieza betrays Goku and causes U7 to get deleted. The fighters will awaken in some kind of Davey Jones' Locker scenario and have to fight their way back into reality to have a final showdown with the Grand Priest and his angels.
Derailing the tournament is very predictable, it's been done before and Dragonball Multiverse just began derailing it's tournament with Babidi taking control.
Sony
Nintendo
Yes, eventually. Nobody knows when. It could have taken thousands of years. The only thing you do know is that at the end of the 48 minutes, 7 universes will be erased.
Goku called Zeno for help during the Zamasu arc. Zeno erased the fucking universe. Then he has the audacity to ask Zeno for a tournament after Beerus, the God of Destruction orders him not to. Goku is way more moronic in Super than he was in Z.
ArchedThunder
Banned
He gave a pretty nasty look to the Grand Priest after Universe 9, a Universe he has no connection to, got wiped out.
If you say so
Goku was always a bit moronic but yeah, as far as I'm concerned he's still the villain of this arc.
I don't get how Goku bringing back Frieza is different than the Goku giving evil Piccolo a sensu on the spot. That interaction ended with Piccolo saying he'll kill Goku, and he'll never stop trying to kill Goku. Before DBZ, how would people justify that? It's stupid, there's no justifying it. This is pre Zenkai boosts, and Piccolo has the advantage that Goku doesn't want to kill him because of the DB's, and Kami.
He gave Cell a sensu bean. Before I get Slaythe'd, Goku's plan was risky, and everybody had to call him out on it, and the plan ultimately failed, if Cell didn't attack Goku and co., Cell would have killed Gohan.
Letting Vegeta live, who could blow up the planet without ever challenging Goku ever again.
Letting Frieza go twice.
With this he's reviving Frieza for a day, over an empty promise of revival with the DB's, I don't see that as any worse than letting Frieza go on Namek, this is actually smarter because Frieza is only around for a day. If Goku wishes Frieza back, that's concerning, but ti's on par with letting Frieza go. not any worse.
He gave Cell a sensu bean. Before I get Slaythe'd, Goku's plan was risky, and everybody had to call him out on it, and the plan ultimately failed, if Cell didn't attack Goku and co., Cell would have killed Gohan.
Letting Vegeta live, who could blow up the planet without ever challenging Goku ever again.
Letting Frieza go twice.
With this he's reviving Frieza for a day, over an empty promise of revival with the DB's, I don't see that as any worse than letting Frieza go on Namek, this is actually smarter because Frieza is only around for a day. If Goku wishes Frieza back, that's concerning, but ti's on par with letting Frieza go. not any worse.
He was the only one to congratulate Krillin on his 2 knockouts.Frost sure was friendly towards Krillin
NoctisVsStar
Member
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[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/naObvcu.jpg[/IMG]It's just going to be painted as an "earnest mistake" of Goku's silliness ("wari wari" n_n) going forward, despite the scene in the build up episodes where Beerus clearly told Goku what was going to happen and Goku tricking his way out of the ultimatum because he really wanted the tournament to happen. Not to mention Goku had seen the consequences with his own eyes in the Black arc. Feels like the different episode writers has different visions about that plot point. I wonder in what extent it appears in Toriyama's outline (knowing Toriyama, it's probably just a big wari wari moment) and what Toyotaro will do with it.
Yet he didn't react to Krillin and is busy helping opponents survive.
I think he'd care that he just lost 3 replacement Vegeta's. Vegeta's a Dad now, so when Gohan's busy he now has 3 more saiyans on the side.
Also Hit.
I'm starting to wonder if the final fight will be between U11 and U7. Unless it's U6 and U7 teaming up against U11, it looks like it might end, if it does end, with U7 vs. U6.
HazySaiyan
Banned
It feels like has Goku not developed and grown as a character, he's actually regressed. He was dumb in DBZ but he was never this fucking dumb, and he loved to fight but he still realised he had a lot responsibility and that his actions have consequences. It's like he doesn't even care what happens to the Earth anymore, I couldn't even picture the Goku in Super sacrificing himself to stop a threat like he did with Cell.
Love this one
Maybe Beerus goes full villain and tries to kill Goku after the tournament because Goku is too dangerous
I could picture Goku in Super giving Cell a sensu bean or something like that..... oh wait
I could picture Goku in Super giving Cell a sensu bean or something like that..... oh wait
The Silver
Member
Frieza was great in his reintroduction, I'm not expecting him to take a bigger role until the tournament starts winding down and he has to go Golden. There's a lot of shit to cover in an 80 man battle royale. I was never concerned Gohan wasn't doing shit or anything like that, learn some patience, when your gets character gets knocked out then you can start crying how well they were utilized.(lol Krillin) And even then being knocked out might not be the end depending on where this thing is headed.
My out-there theory I've had for a few episodes is that after the tournament, Frieza is going to try to murder Beerus and take over the role of God of Destruction in order to ensure he doesn't return to Hell. They gave us that scene of Frieza tanking a God of Destruction energy attack for a reason
HazySaiyan
Banned
That was stupid but at least there was a plan there, and some naive sense of fairness, now he'd just do it for shits and giggles all n_n
well in the exhibtion match if goku lost the elimination rules would have been taken away
Master Yoshi
Member
That, and his dialogue about letting Beerus control him.. for now. Frieza is most assuredly not finished after this tournament concludes.
I can't believe after the Ressurection F arc, I'm excited about Frieza being back
ArchedThunder
Banned
Krillin didn't die though
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