Death Metalist
Member
I think the funniest thing to me was GS's comment on the game being bland at everything. I love Kevin Vanord but not like this Kevin, not like this...
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DriveClub Review Thread.
- Thread starter Saty
- Start date
EatinOlives
Member
I feel the Giant Bomb review is putting a little too much stock into the whole "customize everything and anything" model. It seems to take as a premise that the objective standard is deep customization of liveries and handling, but that's really not the case. I mean, if we take a game like DiRT 3, which wasn't amazing by any stretch but certainly not as "divisive" in the reviews as DriveClub seems to be, reviewers really didn't fault that game for the lack of car customization, or the limited car manufacturers, or the fact that handling modifications really did fuck-all to the experience and may as well be not there. But with DriveClub not having these features is apparently a heinous act and is a retrograde decision.
I mean don't get me wrong, if we have a choice between no customization options and every customization option under the sun I'm definitely picking the latter, but is the inverse true? Is the lack of these options inherently inferior? I don't think so, but for some reason the GiantBomb review seems to, and operates under that assumption. Gerstmann doesn't seem to realize that it's not the objective litmus test for a good racer. I frankly don't even know where he got that idea.
I mean don't get me wrong, if we have a choice between no customization options and every customization option under the sun I'm definitely picking the latter, but is the inverse true? Is the lack of these options inherently inferior? I don't think so, but for some reason the GiantBomb review seems to, and operates under that assumption. Gerstmann doesn't seem to realize that it's not the objective litmus test for a good racer. I frankly don't even know where he got that idea.
I just want to be clear I don't really think it's a good implication to suggest people criticizing the game might not have played it or that any criticism suggests people are not sincere.
There are people who play the game already I have read that legitimately did not like it. And there are even some of the reviews up I've read that have been critical and I have respected their views because they're relatively well supported whilst simply disagreeing with my own position. They're not rejections of the game based on not being open world. They're not rejections based on the fact the game belongs to a specific subcategory of racer. They're not rejections based on some ill-conceived notion of what type of game is "next-gen" enough or what type of gameplay values are too "old school." And for those opinions that avoid all such nonsense and demonstrate a clear knowledge of racing games and what makes them work, I don't have to agree with them to respect. And I do.
Just like a lot of GAFers who are sharing a genuine opinion on not enjoying DriveClub. It's perfectly possible. I think the game is fucking amazing and very above average at meeting its goals, but I do believe the game is a rarity in this industry and belongs to a type of racer that is rarely made anymore. As a result, the fanbase that is left is niche and others who are just re-immersing themselves in this type of pure skill based racers might have trouble adapting. And others might simply not like this type of game, which is cool too.
travisbickle
Member
He's comparing the people that own the game to the people that don't.
One is saying "I own the game and I agree/disagree with this (game reviewers) opinion"
The other "I don't own this game and I agree/disagree with this opinion"
And it's the ones who don't own the game who are getting out of hand, but it's always the same in these threads.
Basileus777
Member
I don't know why you are skeptical, self-selecting and insular OTs are always a great place for meaningful criticism and discussion of a game.
I'm happy with what they have shipped, if they waited for weather this would have been out at Christmas which is another two months.
Plus a lot of content including tracks and a new location is FREE. There's 25+ tracks here not including the reversibles. THe car list is minimal but sufficient. Even if you used every car that's 50 races you would have to race in. That's still 5 hours if you tried each car ONCE.
Doesn't seem like it so far from what I've played. There's really no PGR-equivalent anymore.
FF Seraphim
Member
The Ninja Panda Review of DC
Pros: Great UI, Fast Load Times, Nice Graphics, Offers a real challenge, cars handle beautifully
Cons: Getting Penalties because the AI rams into you is horrible, Wish options were more clear especially when dealing with color choices, lack of pandas
Misc: Since I am one of the many that are suffering from the inability to connect to the servers I am not getting the full experience. However, this game is a real treat, it just keeps making me want to go back to try and improve my race time/skills.
Pros: Great UI, Fast Load Times, Nice Graphics, Offers a real challenge, cars handle beautifully
Cons: Getting Penalties because the AI rams into you is horrible, Wish options were more clear especially when dealing with color choices, lack of pandas
Misc: Since I am one of the many that are suffering from the inability to connect to the servers I am not getting the full experience. However, this game is a real treat, it just keeps making me want to go back to try and improve my race time/skills.
EmptySpace
Banned
probably because those people actually play racing games, can appreciate a good execution of gameplay mechanics graphics and sound, and aren't jaded.
i swear most of the complaints are "hey i've played racing games like those before. so what's new? nothing? it's just an arcade racer where all you do is race? screw that."
i feel bad for games who just want to reiterate on things already done before. never mind them being competent or even the best at delivering something better than similar games of past, if reviewers have already experienced something similar then it all goes into the "been there done that" list.
pixel monkey said:
We are clearly having a very specific discussion right now. That discussion was about DriveClub and the goals it sets for itself as a game, in a review topic. When evaluating a game's quality, its genre and its gameplay goals, "sales" and "review consensus" does not at all factor in to whether or not it has succeeded at the goals it set for itself or not. Sales goals are distinct from Gameplay goals. Context is very important, and neoGAF is filled with mature adults who understand the difference. So, I'm not really sure where you're going with this discussion.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
What does financially successful have to do with critic reviews?. Critics don't have that much sway in the success or failure of a game. And with a PS+ edition I think most people will be able to give the game a fair shake regardless of the reviews.
It's Motorstorm marrying PGR and spitting out a kid.
Weather would have been nice, but not having replays or a photo mode is pretty damning in the modern racing game world. The last game that shipped without a working photo mode was GT5 and it was just as frustrating there as it is here.
Sounds about right. The barebones part of the presentation feels a lot like Motorstorm but with PGR-ish tracks/cars.
Lion Heart
Banned
I truly wonder if PGR5 came out today, would the reviewers bash it like Driveclub? I know GAF would have an orgasm and I assure you the words "corridor racer" would never be uttered. What is it about PS exclusives that bring out the weirdest criticisms known to man. No one would question the sub genre its in or imply not being open world is less ambitious. Its sincerely the weirdest narrative I've ever seen however I predicted the Jeff Gertsmans of the reviewing world would trash it without fail. I wish we still had reviewers like Brian Eckberg who were actual fans of racing and being competitive on a track.
Piston Hyundai
Member
I bet this would've done much better at launch. Critics probably would've been more forgiving of how barebones it is.
But hey, at least it's pretty! The graphics alone make me want to check out the PS+ version.
But hey, at least it's pretty! The graphics alone make me want to check out the PS+ version.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Isn't this a game for car enthusiasts though? Wouldnt car enthusiasts want to be able to tweak their favorite cars? That's not even Jeff's one beef with the game either, he also doesnt seem to like the handling, the way the game rewards/penalizes players on the track, and the way cars are unlocked. All seem like valid criticisms he is allowed to have.
It does share some aspects with PGR (namely the transplanted Kudos system) but yeah it's not really like PGR at all. Sometimes it reminds me of the original Need For Speed with the scenic vistas and winding routes but I'm sure that's just some misplaced nostalgia.
Neuromancer
Member
I'm glad to find I'm not the only one who finds a straight-forward racing game where you pick a track or event, a car, and then just go really satisfying.
Not every racing game needs to be open world. Not every racing game needs to be either pure sim or balls to the wall arcade. There is room for lots of different kinds of racing games of varying shades of gray in between the extremes.
Not every racing game needs to be open world. Not every racing game needs to be either pure sim or balls to the wall arcade. There is room for lots of different kinds of racing games of varying shades of gray in between the extremes.
LaserBuddha
Member
No we are only going to project here. He doesnt like it because he fucking sucks at games and cant judge it for what it is.
EDIT: And Jeff is a notorious Need for Speed fan. Hes down with non-enthusiast car games.
I'm really glad they gave out a PS+ version, its very easy to upgrade digitally and cheaper than retail. If you're a racing fan you will quickly see this game isn't a 2/5. It was worth the AU$57 I paid. I think retail is minimum $79.
This game is definitely not for car enthusiasts. Car enthusiasts in the sense normally discussed for gaming want car mechanics which at least adequately reflect what they can experience in the real world, including physics. They want all sorts of real-world customization options. They want to be able to trick out its look visually, to test the sorts of things they might do to it in the real world.
Just because the game has cars and those cars belong to certain brands doesn't mean it's for car enthusiasts. Again, distinct goals. It's unfair to criticize a game for goals it doesn't even attempt to try, because it has other gameplay directives for which those features might be adverse. In both these directions, there are "pros" and "cons" to going either course. Neither are inherently flawed. The criticism should come from its failure to execute its attempted goal well. DriveClub succeeds wildly well at its gameplay goals.
PGR5's entire single player experience would consist of more than a literal list of events, and it would have more than 3 types of them.
Yep, coming off of NFS MW2012 and Rivals this game is amazing. I can just pick a race and fucking race. No drifting challenges, no collecting yellow gates, no trying to dodge overpowered cops, no traffic there to just piss me off, no ez mode turning and drifting and the best part of all no crashing cutscenes!
I've been asking for this kind of racing game ever since I wasted $60 on Most Wanted 201shit and Rivals. I'm glad someone listened.
EmptySpace
Banned
now i remember gamespot's ricardo torres. quite an insightful and articulate person. far from people like gerstmann who always say, "well...ehh..you know, it's..yeah.." every time they don't like how a game looks.
it is seriously pathetic that some are implying they'd want thus to be like forza. that's like going into a tekken review and whining that it doesn't feel and play like street fighter.
I miss the replays! I was wondering where those went. I suppose we have to use the PS4 captures for now? A bit archaic. Photo mode is coming so no biggie.
Its got the Motorstorm sense of speed and handling, though it goes a lot faster now, the India track feels a lot like something out of Motorstorm Pacific Rift. Then you have the globe trotting aspect of PGR but rural areas instead of city areas and the mini challenges within the race like matching the racing line and gaining kudos/fame feels a lot like PGR. The car list also makes it feel like PGR too. The game handles a bit like Need for speed hot pursuit or even Burnout, its really fast.
Lion Heart
Banned
Cone challenges, speed traps, overtaking a set amount of cars in a set time, regular races. Thats the bulk of the SP. The main attraction has always been its mechanics and its multiplayer races. You play the SP for 10-15 hours and you play the MP for 200.
EatinOlives
Member
Woah there, I never said anything about his other critiques. I think they're valid as well. I'm only commenting on his emphasis on customization.
I never got the vibe that the game is for car enthusiasts. I doubt true car enthusiasts who love racing sims would appreciate DriveClub's playful take on some of the physics. I'm sure they're being inclusive of car enthusiasts as well, but I don't think it was made exclusively for them. DriveClub seems to go after the crowd that, for instance, likes Codemasters games, people who like racing games to have a little more depth to their handling but still far removed from pure sim that would make non-enthusiasts frustrated (their extremely arcade-y recent games not withstanding). I don't think streamlining that part of the experience inherently terrible, as Jeff seems to think.
Speaking of narratives...
pixel monkey
Banned
Yes, we can all just boot up our FREE versions and then decide if we'll take the plunge.
Oh, wait.
LaserBuddha
Member
I see pages and pages of people complaining about people wanting it to be forza (which is coincidentally, an easy position to argue against for people who are upset with low scores). What I dont see is people actually wanting it to be forza. Everyone seems to be ignoring the plethora of specific and fair criticisms from reviewers like Jeff.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Don't forget "no open world shenanigans to find an actual race" and "no silly police pursuits"
EGOMON
Member
Am talking about the opinion of gamers who own the game and plays it (see OT) vs people here reading the reviews and going ape shit riding the hate train
Game journalists opinion is as good as a 10 years old to me
This is currently the most infuriating thing for me. I so badly want to try this game out for myself after everything that has gone on today.
I just read the GB review as it seems to be the one garnering the most anger in this thread and your summary doesn't seem to match with that review at least.
The review knocks the game for being barebones, which it undeniably is at this stage. He doesn't like the feel of the cars and gives reasons why. That's subjective, while realism might be preferable to some others want something that focuses on fun rather than accuracy. I don't think he says that it offers nothing new, rather that it doesn't offer enough to call it a satisfactory package when compared to other recent racers.
How does this game quantifiably offer something better than previous racing games beyond graphics?
It seems to me that this game offers a style of racing game that is not very common (at all or anymore, not sure which) and that those who are into that style are happy to see it make a return where as others don't appreciate it. Both equally valuable opinions it would seem.
I don't like the whole corridor racer insult deal but it does seem crazy (and something I can't recall every happening in a racing game) to go beyond a warning about leaving the track (suitable leeway) and actually have invisible walls that stop you from leaving the track whatsoever. Does anybody know how much of the time there are walls?
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
I just remember the crazy Driveclub guy talking about how crazy they were about creating these cars and tracks and it immediately seemed like an enthusiast game to me. Cant really judge handling by videos either, my mistake.
You said you would at most give this game a 3/5 and objectively think a 2/5 is more likely. Why do you want to so badly play a game you think is between mediocre or average?
There must be better games yet unplayed.
Allez Phill
Banned
Driveclub was being compared to Forza 5. That was before Forza Horizon 2 was even announced.
Exactly. I take offense at people conflating these two games because Driveclub has fewer features than any of the modern PGR games, not to mention *any* city courses, which were the whole namesake of those games.
PGR games had strong photo modes, great replay cameras, fun offbeat single & multiplayer modes like cat-and-mouse, underpowered team leader, cone-challenge motocross, and infection. It had outstanding presentation that stood out among its peers, both in style and in technology, like Project Gotham TV. It branched out from its original focus on a wide variety of supercars into motorcycles as it pushed weather and time-of-day in ways uncommon in the genre. It let players create courses through its cities to share and challenge others. It let players fill out a literal garage you could walk through to admire your favorite cars, and play arcade games in your garage like Geometry wars, built into those games. It had a whole suite of music to almost every taste, organized though the in-game logic of radio stations you'd flip through in your car.
Driveclub is none of those things, and it has every advantage of technology, time and money, and years of hindsight on its developer's part. When someone invokes the name of this series, they had have a better sense of why that game was great. And no, it wasn't "good graphics and unrealistic handling."
Ingueferroque
Banned
It does not feel barebones to me. And it isn't just pretty, it's gorgeous and plays extremely well. I had a fucking blast so far. The weather update is going to be crazy.
2/5 is extremely harsh.
pixel monkey
Banned
The only reason I didn't take the chance and pull the trigger this morning on picking it up was because of this highly touted free Plus copy.
I weigh my reviews based on the reviewer, but will withhold my final judgment (and my scratch) until Sony danes us worthy to release the promised copy and I can put DC through her paces.
You're really intent on picking on me huh.You said you would at most give this game a 3/5 and objectively think a 2/5 is more likely. Why do you want to so badly play a game you think is between mediocre or average?
There must be better games yet unplayed.
I think Destiny is a 3/5 and I had fun with it. There's also a ton of things I find shitty about it and am really disappointed with. I would not have bought it at launch if I didn't have friends that wanted to play with me.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
So you clearly just want to antagonize and provide snark. Yes it's disappointing the PS+ Is not up yet but it will come out soon. The game isn't going to magically disappear In a day or so again if you aren't a day one for sure buyer they will have a good opportunity with the PS+ edition when it's posted. But feel free to drop some more "witty" one liners like you've been doing.
I personally enjoy racers but always seem to get bored with them quickly so I'm waiting for the PS+ edition to see how much mileage the game gives me.
Allez Phill
Banned
Man, PGR was fucking great. All it would take is a developer who can just do what PGR did right. I don't think Playground Games or Evolution Studios should mention the PGR series when it comes to their games.
People kept saying that DC was the closest to being a next gen PGR and I really feel like it isn't at all.
brianmcdoogle
Member
I haven't watched the GB quick look yet, but I've read Jeff's review, and several pages of this thread, and Amirox's posts, and I still don't know if this game is for me. I kind of just like to buy 1 racing game per generation because I don't play them that much. Last generation I played Grid and enjoyed it, and I've had a lot of fun with Real Racing 3 on the iPad (I've never paid for anything in it), but the thing I hate most about it is the online races where if you hit or go off road, you are forced to slow down. I guess if you could turn these penalty things off in DriveClub I might like it more, but since I'm very much a casual racer, I don't know if this game is for me. Or is it? Bah, I wish the PS+ version was available to download so I can find out for myself.
I guess I also played a little of Burnout Paradise for free, but never did that much because of how big and spread out it felt like everything was, and other than licenses, no real progression.
I guess I also played a little of Burnout Paradise for free, but never did that much because of how big and spread out it felt like everything was, and other than licenses, no real progression.
Because I made a single reply to a post or yours?
I think if there's anything we should learn this gen after Destiny, it's that we should never, ever listen to PR or "crazy [insert game here] guys" about anything, and just evaluate what the thing actually is upon release
I mean the only way DriveClub can be considered an car enthusiast game is if the only criteria for that is that it has cars and they are namebrand