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[EmCeeGramr]

Guys, while sometimes throwing a person's words back at them can be a satisfying retort, it's also an incredibly toxic nuclear option in a really charged thread like this where some really out of line accusations are being tossed around willy-nilly.

So please fucking cool your jets, and before posting that Legendary Epic Callout Post That Will Totally Get You Into GAF History, heavily consider whether said post is going to make the quality of discussion in that thread better or worse.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

<big 'ol post>

Thanks for this, Amir0x. A lot of what you mention is why I shrug off most reviews, critical or not. It feels like so many reviewers would rather boil a game down to "is it doing the next big thing?" and the amount of spectacle a game has, rather than looking at how well executed the mechanics and systems are, and how well those things work together to achieve an overall vision.

 

[GodofWine]

Having now spent hours with this game, I cannot..CANNOT fathom how it got less than a 70 from anyone...i dont rate games on a scale of numbers but this game is flat out insane in its presentation and its sense of speed is unmatched.

If you dont like racing games you shouldnt be in this thread, and if you do i really do not see how you wouldnt enjoy this game.

Its a blast...north of 130mph its almost scary how fast the scenery rips by...oh the lighting is in a world unto itself.

 

[DarkJC]

I'm waiting for the PS+ version to try it out and see what the driving feels like. I don't really care to read any reviews because I find they've rarely jived with the experience I get out of racing games.

That being said, in the public eye, I think this game suffers from bad timing. Had this been what they delivered at PS4 launch, I think it would've been hailed as a great racing game. The fact that it was delayed for so long and released so close to Forza Horizon 2 and the fact that DC and FH2 are fairly different stabs at the same genre means they're going to be pitted against each other. It looks like FH2 offers more of what popular reviewers look for in racing games, but that doesn't really say much to me.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Ok this got me:



The "old dark days" like when we had real racing games like TOCA, Colin McRae, a real Le Mans game, authentic F1 games, RBR? And then arcade racers like PGR, Ridge Racer, V Rally? Yeh ok Jeff... You can go back into your hole/cave now.

Sorry the game isn't noob friendly enough for you.

That's all I have to say. What sad times we live in.

This is actually funny, because on the most recent Bombcast Jeff (who wrote the review) brings up TOCA as the sort of antiquated racing game that Driveclub unintentionally throws back to.

I suppose if you have a nostalgia for that era of racing game it's cool - but the mainstream taste in racing has gone in a more focused direction.

 

[Hindle]

So is this on par with the UC 3 review thread yet?

 

[Raonak]

literally 20 more mins til I arrive home and can finally try it out.

 

[waveking]

Wow, the GB review (and score) is just brutal.

 

[Innolis]

I dont really play racing games, but from that perspective I dont quite understand whats so "wrong" about DC...nor do I understand what people (mostly reviewers at this point) expected it to be.

For what I remember, they were pretty straightforward with the game's promotion: a PGR like driving experience with social/competitive multiplayer elements and amazing graphics.

Seems like complaining about it not being "open world" is like complaining that your military shotter doesnt have RPG elements on it...I dunno, I guess it all depends on what a "racing" game is supposed to be nowadays...

 

[Hugstable]

Guys, while sometimes throwing a person's words back at them can be a satisfying retort, it's also an incredibly toxic nuclear option in a really charged thread like this where some really out of line accusations are being tossed around willy-nilly.

So please fucking cool your jets, and before posting that Legendary Epic Callout Post That Will Totally Get You Into GAF History, heavily consider whether said post is going to make the quality of discussion in that thread better or worse.

Yeah it's getting quite scary to see that happening around, this has actually been about the second time this has happened today, over some really trivial comments. If you enjoy the game you enjoy it, if you don't, then oh well. The reviews aren't even that bad save a few, don't see why people are so worked up like this.

 

[ConstructMe]

I dont even know who can be fucked getting into fanboy bs anymore...i mean really who gives a shit about that crap anymore grow up anyone.

 

[Amir0x]

Thanks for this, Amir0x. A lot of what you mention is why I shrug off most reviews, critical or not. It feels like so many reviewers would rather boil a game down to "is it doing the next big thing?" and the amount of spectacle a game has, rather than looking at how well executed the mechanics and systems are, and how well those things work together to achieve an overall vision.

I want to reiterate that the game may in fact not be for you individually. Racing games of this type are rare enough, but they do have a very dedicated fanbase. And that fanbase might not be one you're apart of, and that's OK too. But if you read my comments and think "yeah, you know, it is a breath of fresh air to play a genuine no-frills, pure skill-based racer," DriveClub might be for you.

I'm just frustrated at the amount of reviewers who consistently approached DriveClub with a shameful wishlist called "how much I wish the game had goals other than the great ones this already has, because I'd so rather be playing those type of racing games and I'm going to review this to discuss all the ways it fails at not being other racing games."

Some had legitimate criticisms, but much more often they were simply self-aggrandizing nonsense meant to stir up the very specific passions of gamers who are on this nonsense bandwagon about open-world vs. linear, or to try to shut the door on a whole fantastic subcategory of racing games merely because they missed the memo on how not to fucking suck at games, or they simply close the curtain on anything they deem "too streamlined" to not get buried beneath a mountain of superfluous features meant to conceal the fact that the games no longer require any actual skill.

So many reviewers reviewing what mystical game they wish it was, rather than what the game actually is.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

Wow this thread is...just...wow.

 

[Raonak]

I dont really play racing games, but from that perspective I dont quite understand whats so "wrong" about DC...nor do I understand what people (mostly reviewers at this point) expected it to be.

For what I remember, they were pretty straightforward with the game's promotion: a PGR like driving experience with social/competitive multiplayer elements and amazing graphics.

Seems like complaining about it not being "open world" is like complaining that your military shotter doesnt have RPG elements on it...I dunno, I guess it all depends on what a "racing" game is supposed to be nowadays...

It releasing so close to a certain other racing game means it's easy to draw comparisons.
Complaining about a linear game not being openworld is a really shitty complaint.

 

[Liberty4all]

I'm surprised the reviews were all across the board. When I played the game at Fan Expo it seemed like a best in class racer that doesn't compromise on its roots as a hardcore linear racer.

 

[Xenon]

The list goes on and on. Racing games - and other genres - haven't just "moved on" from great gameplay concepts from the past. We move on from things that have no value, not from fantastic things that just "only" appeal to a unique subset of us. We all have our preferences. What is embarrassing is just how many so-called 'reviewers' thought it was their job to pull the curtain down on an entire sub-genre of racing titles because they frankly don't fucking understand the first thing about racing games and what made them compelling through the generations

I'm not sure what games your a referring to here. But, when I think of classic racing games, Sega and Namco pop into my head. Both masters of the arcade racers with well designed tracks that were fun to play over and over to improve your time. I'm not getting that with DC, if I had to find a classic slot to fit it in, it would be the Cruisin games. The main focus of the game is graphics with solid racing which is not bad, just not great.

I am looking forward to finally playing a game from PS+ when this comes out.

 

[mood]

I cant take him seriously about his opinion on racing games when he dislikes GT for being a sim and not be more like Forza.

Wow, this is not what was said at all. But this line of thinking permeates much of this thread, save for amir0x's take on many reviews.

 

[LeeRoyBrown]

Why are all these people who havn't played the game yet so angry about other peoples opinions on games?

 

[saunderez]

Why are all these people who havn't played the game yet so angry about other peoples opinions on games?

Who said they haven't played the game? I've played the game for quite a few hours and I agree with a lot of the commentary about reviewers wanting the game to be something it's not.

 

[Synless]

These reviews are surprisingly worse than I thought they would be.

 

[Raonak]

I'm not sure what games your a referring to here. But, when I think of classic racing games, Sega and Namco pop into my head. Both masters of the arcade racers with well designed tracks that were fun to play over and over to improve your time. I'm not getting that with DC, if I had to find a classic slot to fit it in, it would be the Cruisin games. The main focus of the game is graphics with solid racing which is not bad, just not great.

I am looking forward to finally playing a game from PS+ when this comes out.

Seens quite premature to say that when you havent played the game yet.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Who said they haven't played the game? I've played the game for quite a few hours and I agree with a lot of the commentary about reviewers wanting the game to be something it's not.

it could just be that they dont like it period

and theyre rating it that way

because its their opinion

 

[AllenShrz]

Wow, this is not what was said at all. But this line of thinking permeates much of this thread, save for amir0x's take on many reviews.

I'm talking specifically about Jeff and his opinions that he has said through the years about GT.

He doesn't like GT, I love GT. He loves BO Paradice, I dont since they changed how a BO was, He doesn't like DC, so for I really like DC and how it plays.

 

[saunderez]

it could just be that they dont like it period

and theyre rating it that way

because its their opinion

And that's fine. But in that case it's not really surprising that fans of the genre disagree.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm not sure what games your a referring to here. But, when I think of classic racing games, Sega and Namco pop into my head. Both masters of the arcade racers with well designed tracks that were fun to play over and over to improve your time. I'm not getting that with DC, if I had to find a classic slot to fit it in, it would be the Cruisin games. The main focus of the game is graphics with solid racing which is not bad, just not great.

I am looking forward to finally playing a game from PS+ when this comes out.

In fact, Namco is a great one to compare it to. Mechanically they are clearly different, but in terms of purity of racing, Ridge Racer and DriveClub are not at all dissimilar. Very no frills with a distinct focus on pure skill-based racing.

DriveClub is a bit of a fascinating mix, a simcade with its own unique approach to vehicle mechanics, there's a bit of a wide range of racing titles that straddle the lines in the title, but they really nailed the mechanics to perfection and that feels distinct. As I said, if it were not for FH2, I'd say this was easily the best racing game in the past 3 or 4 years, and probably amongst the best of its class in its subcategory of racing genre period mechanically.

DriveClub's tracks are extremely well designed however. They are perfectly primed for just the sort of hundredth-of-a-millisecond time shaving fanatics that racing fans like me (and apparently you) love. The A.I. is incredibly engaging because they're so aggressive, and you really feel like you have to claw your way to the finish line if you get broiled in a vehicular brawl on the road. Similarly, time trials are phenomenal, just as you'd expect from a pure skill based racer. Here you really get a sense of how finely tuned the mechanics are and how many thousands of ways you can strategize to eliminate the tiniest fractions of time from your overall score.

They are not designed for a hundred short cuts or to give the most dramatic stylized loops and dips, they're made to give you slices of specific challenges meant to test your accumulated skill sets. Each provide a different slice of challenges for each of your skills, and combine them in many extremely engaging ways to provide very interesting and fun races.

The main focus of DriveClub is obviously mechanics, because they were clearly playtested by people who know what's up with racing games. I've played racing games since I was a boy, I invest in wheels and enjoy a wide range of racing subgenres and I've always been a top-of-my-class racing genre gamer competitively. I'm extremely particular when it comes to my racing games, and am very critical when a racing game fails at what it sets out to do, resulting in a very poor game that does not test your skills or warrant your attention.

DriveClub succeeded in every way at what it set out to do.

 

[AllenShrz]

.... if I had to find a classic slot to fit it in, it would be the Cruisin games. The main focus of the game is graphics with solid racing which is not bad, just not great.

I am looking forward to finally playing a game from PS+ when this comes out.

Oh god no! Is not at all as Cruisin.

 

[Eusis]

He's not wrong though... but I think he's talking about Jeff more than anything. That was pretty much Jeff's attitude during earlier bombcasts, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the crew were fairly indifferent toward it. Not sure if Jeff ever warmed up to the series. But the guy you quoted was talking about reviews, not load our last souls.
Vinny and Brad eventually decided to give it a chance. To the best of my knowledge I don't think Ryan was very interested in the game either.
I don't agree with the guy's opinion of giant bomb, but I don't think he's wrong about them choosing not to review the game because they didn't like it. I think that statement is fairly accurate when it comes to GB's opinion of DS around release time. And in general, that website is very selective about reviewing games.

To me this is mainly indicative that they should be gone to more for entertainment than serious teardowns of games. They seem to act more on whims and gut reactions, and those actually may be way, WAY out of sync of what you like depending on your tastes, while most sites trying to give fuller coverage will at least give something a chance.

It's also why I'd just find that mildly exasperating but be more seriously annoyed at IGN going "no, no more PSP coverage" (though I think they relented there or other editors went "well I want to anyway.") Giant Bomb's ALSO a small site so it's really more like hearing some guys you know are being dumb about trying something you like, but for a dedicated site with a large staff it's outright stupefying to completely write off a platform, one admittedly on steep decline but at the same time with that much less to cover anyway.

 

[Bloodworth]

In fact, Namco is a great one to compare it to. Mechanically they are clearly different, but in terms of purity of racing, Ridge Racer and DriveClub are not at all dissimilar. Very no frills with a distinct focus on pure skill-based racing.

DriveClub is a bit of a fascinating mix, a simcade with its own unique approach to vehicle mechanics, there's a bit of a wide range of racing titles that straddle the lines in the title, but they really nailed the mechanics to perfection and that feels distinct. As I said, if it were not for FH2, I'd say this was easily the best racing game in the past 3 or 4 years, and probably amongst the best of its class in its subcategory of racing genre period mechanically.

DriveClub's tracks are extremely well designed however. They are perfectly primed for just the sort of hundredth-of-a-millisecond time shaving fanatics that racing fans like me (and apparently you) love. The A.I. is incredibly engaging because they're so aggressive, and you really feel like you have to claw your way to the finish line if you get broiled in a vehicular brawl on the road. Similarly, time trials are phenomenal, just as you'd expect from a pure skill based racer. Here you really get a sense of how finely tuned the mechanics are and how many thousands of ways you can strategize to eliminate the tiniest fractions of time from your overall score.

They are not designed for a hundred short cuts or to give the most dramatic stylized loops and dips, they're made to give you slices of specific challenges meant to test your accumulated skill sets. Each provide a different slice of challenges for each of your skills, and combine them in many extremely engaging ways to provide very interesting and fun races.

The main focus of DriveClub is obviously mechanics, because they were clearly playtested by people who know what's up with racing games. I've played racing games since I was a boy, I invest in wheels and enjoy a wide range of racing subgenres and I've always been a top-of-my-class racing genre gamer competitively. I'm extremely particular when it comes to my racing games, and am very critical when a racing game fails at what it sets out to do, resulting in a very poor game that does not test your skills or warrant your attention.

DriveClub succeeded in every way at what it set out to do.

dude is crushing it (although I'm admittedly not a Ridge Racer fan)

 

[evolution]

In fact, Namco is a great one to compare it to. Mechanically they are clearly different, but in terms of purity of racing, Ridge Racer and DriveClub are not at all dissimilar. Very no frills with a distinct focus on pure skill-based racing.

DriveClub is a bit of a fascinating mix, a simcade with its own unique approach to vehicle mechanics, there's a bit of a wide range of racing titles that straddle the lines in the title, but they really nailed the mechanics to perfection and that feels distinct. As I said, if it were not for FH2, I'd say this was easily the best racing game in the past 3 or 4 years, and probably amongst the best of its class in its subcategory of racing genre period mechanically.

DriveClub's tracks are extremely well designed however. They are perfectly primed for just the sort of hundredth-of-a-millisecond time shaving fanatics that racing fans like me (and apparently you) love. The A.I. is incredibly engaging because they're so aggressive, and you really feel like you have to claw your way to the finish line if you get broiled in a vehicular brawl on the road. Similarly, time trials are phenomenal, just as you'd expect from a pure skill based racer. Here you really get a sense of how finely tuned the mechanics are and how many thousands of ways you can strategize to eliminate the tiniest fractions of time from your overall score.

They are not designed for a hundred short cuts or to give the most dramatic stylized loops and dips, they're made to give you slices of specific challenges meant to test your accumulated skill sets. Each provide a different slice of challenges for each of your skills, and combine them in many extremely engaging ways to provide very interesting and fun races.

The main focus of DriveClub is obviously mechanics, because they were clearly playtested by people who know what's up with racing games. I've played racing games since I was a boy, I invest in wheels and enjoy a wide range of racing subgenres and I've always been a top-of-my-class racing genre gamer competitively. I'm extremely particular when it comes to my racing games, and am very critical when a racing game fails at what it sets out to do, resulting in a very poor game that does not test your skills or warrant your attention.

DriveClub succeeded in every way at what it set out to do.

oh man, cant wait to get it tomorrow

 

[Amir0x]

dude is crushing it (although I'm admittedly not a Ridge Racer fan)

They don't feel alike mechanically if that's your concern, they simply have very similar gameplay directives. Which is to say, there is little standing between you and your acquired skill set and the finish line. There's no variation from that goal; you either get good at what the game provides, or you don't and you fail. There's no upgrade you can get that will save your lack of skills, there's not really many "tricks" you can acquire to subvert players clearly better than you. It's you, the road, any competitors and your skills.

I am of the opinion that the mechanics are really fantastic and, while sharing similarities with a host of racers, really feels like a compelling mix that takes things to a very special level within this subcategory of racing title. I really love it, and that was my biggest concern going into the title.

 

[Bloodworth]

They don't feel alike mechanically if that's your concern, they simply have very similar gameplay directives. Which is to say, there is little standing between you and your acquired skill set and the finish line. There's no variation from that goal; you either get good at what the game provides, or you don't and you fail. There's no upgrade you can get that will save your lack of skills, there's not really many "tricks" you can acquire to subvert players clearly better than you. It's you, the road, any competitors and your skills.

I am of the opinion that the mechanics are really fantastic and, while sharing similarities with a host of racers, really feels like a compelling mix that takes things to a very special level within this subcategory of racing title. I really love it, and that was my biggest concern going into the title.

yeah, don't get hung up on RR, I agree with your thoughts on Driveclub. That's why I was surprised when I ended up being on the higher end of the reviews.

 

[EmptySpace]

I'm just frustrated at the amount of reviewers who consistently approached DriveClub with a shameful wishlist called "how much I wish the game had goals other than the great ones this already has, because I'd so rather be playing those type of racing games and I'm going to review this to discuss all the ways it fails at not being other racing games."

basically what it boiled down to. judging a game not by its own merits, but what reviewers want it to be.

 

[pixel monkey]

DriveClub succeeded in every way at what it set out to do.

DriveClub sought middling to poor reviews? Um... okay.

Congratulations, then?

 

[farmerboy]

dude is crushing it (although I'm admittedly not a Ridge Racer fan)

Seriously, in a thread which is barely on the rails I hand on my heart, honest to goodness think that Amir0x has made the most sense BY FAR.

 

[Bloodworth]

basically what it boiled down to. judging a game not by its own merits, but what reviewers want it to be.

As someone who ends up reviewing most of the big racing games every year, I certainly don't want three massive open world racers back to back. Imagine if that's the direction Driveclub went AND we had a NFS this year along with FH2 and The Crew. What's wrong with racing games being focused on different things?

 

[EGOMON]

lol at the contrast in comments between the people who actually own the game and the people who are just listening to the stupid journalists, i mean just check out the OT and you will get a sincere impression of the game instead of some drones that doesn't even know the game they review and get paid for it.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

Thanks for this, Amir0x. A lot of what you mention is why I shrug off most reviews, critical or not. It feels like so many reviewers would rather boil a game down to "is it doing the next big thing?" and the amount of spectacle a game has, rather than looking at how well executed the mechanics and systems are, and how well those things work together to achieve an overall vision.

So as long as a game is doing one thing right it's OK? We can all accept mediocrity in every other aspect? I don't know about you but I want video games to push things forwards in more places than graphics. I havnt played this game so I'm not commenting on Drive club. I'm just commenting that I don't want every game to be the next big thing. But I want the industry to be pushed forward or its pointless.

 

[Justin]

Can we all just agree that all these racing games are shit and will continue to be shit until the king of all racing games returns to us?

Spoiler

Its Rallisport

 

[Amir0x]

DriveClub sought middling to poor reviews? Um... okay.

Congratulations, then?

If a point reaching a more dramatic height over ones head before whimsically passing to the other side was an indication of just how poorly one missed a point, then that one probably went into the stratosphere before plopping comically behind you.

DriveClub set out to be a no frills pure skill-based racer. It succeeded at it immensely. Review consensus is and has not ever been a consideration in what makes a game good.

So as long as a game is doing one thing right it's OK? We can all accept mediocrity in every other aspect? I don't know about you but I want video games to push things forwards in more places than graphics. I havnt played this game so I'm not commenting on Drive club. I'm just commenting that I don't want every game to be the next big thing. But I want the industry to be pushed forward or its pointless.

There is very little mediocre about DRIVECLUB, so I'm not sure what you're implying. It is perfectly fine to disagree with my assessment, but if you're trying to address points people are making, nobody is saying it's fine to accept mediocrity anywhere.

I think DriveClub has phenomenal top-of-its-class gameplay and vehicular mechanics, fantastic track design and extremely addictive no-frills skill based racing with the best visuals ever to grace a console racing title. My main concern is that they should have had a better global car selection, it's pretty centric.

That's just my opinion. But I don't know if yours even IS an opinion. In no way is DriveClub holding the industry back in any regard. In fact, the only ones holding the industry back is those who are insisting racing games must fit a certain mold to be considered "appropriate" for next-gen.

 

[impact]

The same giantbomb that did multiple playthroughs of dark souls and demon souls?

You might want to update yourself first.

Can you link me to Giant Bomb's Dark Souls review?

 

[saunderez]

As someone who ends up reviewing most of the big racing games every year, I certainly don't want three massive open world racers back to back. Imagine if that's the direction Driveclub went AND we had a NFS this year along with FH2 and The Crew. What's wrong with racing games being focused on different things?

Nothing at all. Diversity is wonderful and it's why gaming has such a large audience in the first place. It should be embraced, pigeon-holing leads only to stagnation.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

lol at the contrast in comments between the people who actually own the game and the people who are just listening to the stupid journalists, i mean just check out the OT and you will get a sincere impression of the game instead of some drones that doesn't even know the game they review and get paid for it.

To be fair the games been out a day. I thought destiny was amazing in the first few days. Driveclub looks to play very well but only time will tell it's actual meat and substance

 

[VanWinkle]

As someone who ends up reviewing most of the big racing games every year, I certainly don't want three massive open world racers back to back. Imagine if that's the direction Driveclub went AND we had a NFS this year along with FH2 and The Crew. What's wrong with racing games being focused on different things?

Very good point. A lot of reviewers think it's too standard, with no personality, and then say they would rather it be like every other racer this year (open-world). Its like they don't know what they really want or what they don't like.

We should embrace several styles within each genre.

 

[mujun]

lol at the contrast in comments between the people who actually own the game and the people who are just listening to the stupid journalists, i mean just check out the OT and you will get a sincere impression of the game instead of some drones that doesn't even know the game they review and get paid for it.

What exactly makes the opinions of the people in OT more valid than those of a game journalist?

 

[LaserBuddha]

What exactly makes the opinions of the people in OT more valid than those of a game journalist?

They like the game and journalists don't.

 

[Oneself]

Those reviews are mostly terrible. I'd give them a 6 out of 10 at most.

 

[Bebpo]

Driveclub seems to be another game in the line of "release it now, improve it over the next year or two" titles that are becoming more common with stuff like GT5, Destiny. And this model just does not work with reviewers and all these games are getting slammed for their lack of content at launch.

Which I think is fair. Even as someone who is buying them I'm always feeling torn whether to play the game I just bought knowing that in a year it'll be a much better game experience if I wait and play it then. Wish they'd just finish the game feature complete before shipping.

 

[Jimrpg]

Is this going to turn out like Killzone?

There was a lot of hype and the reviews hit the game pretty hard, but ultimately they were right, that game was a piece of shit.

BUT Driveclub so far feels like a lot of fun, the complaints from the reviews feel like a lot of arty farty holier than thou criticisms.

 

[pixel monkey]

DriveClub set out to be a no frills pure skill-based racer. It succeeded at it immensely. Review consensus is and has not ever been a consideration in what makes a game good.

I would suggest, if I may, that Evolution and Sony actually set out to create a financially successful new endeavor in the genre. This is a business after all.

Apologies if I offend, but this is not the type of start any developer and/or publisher are looking for.

I'm looking at the title, and the reactions of the press, objectively based on the reality on the ground at launch. My mistake.

 

[Drifters]

So reviews aside....is Driveclub the spiritual successor to PGR?