Just finished the first level with 50700 points. And indeed, normal enemy levels on level 2. Level 2 should be easier now than level 1, since I also got enough experience on how to deal with monster zoos
bryehn said:How many floors are in this? I've barely mapped 60% of the 1st after ±2.5 hours.
And it randomly generates the floors when you start a new game right? Still on my "first" run, regular difficulty with permadeath off.
Yes, the floors are randomly assembled using a pool of premade rooms. The general structure of the single individual rooms is always the same but they change a little every run, from the position of the doors (but the spots they can be in are set) to the position of traps and chests (but dsome traps will always be in the same places).bryehn said:How many floors are in this? I've barely mapped 60% of the 1st after ±2.5 hours.
And it randomly generates the floors when you start a new game right? Still on my "first" run, regular difficulty with permadeath off.
Wallach said:Sorry I haven't checked in for a couple days. Father keeps trying to die on me.
After a really horrible day I did manage to sit down for a while just now and play a little, continuing on my first attempt following you guys with this build. I'm on floor 5 and I think I've hit critical mass, so I expect to full clear this run.
Is this evening (PST) enough time for everyone to finish up their attempts? How about 6 PM PST?
Wallach said:Sorry I haven't checked in for a couple days. Father keeps trying to die on me.
After a really horrible day I did manage to sit down for a while just now and play a little, continuing on my first attempt following you guys with this build. I'm on floor 5 and I think I've hit critical mass, so I expect to full clear this run.
Is this evening (PST) enough time for everyone to finish up their attempts? How about 6 PM PST?
Toma said:THIS evening? Werent we talking about a week for each contest?
You should definitely take time until the weekend. I am on floor 3 and roughly make 1 floor each day and I guess I am not the only one. I really think 1 week for each contest is fine.
Wallach said:A week is fine. I wasn't sure what people wanted since the first one was only 3 days.
So we'll make it Saturday evening then.
After losing my best 2 runs for the contest to bugs, I've hit the same decision.KittenMaster said:Yeah, besides contest builds I am holding off on playing DoD until the next patch since all of the builds I want to use are bugged in some way.
someguyinahat said:I hate to interrupt your contest, but I just got my first victory! Sure...it was dwarven moderation, but I'm feeling accomplished. I just wished I had more confidence in myself and didn't name him Poop Face in the expectation he was going to die.
I guess it's time to go Rogue now...and maybe I'll join the next contest when it starts.
Edit: for the record - axe, artful dodger, fleshsmithing, perception, burglary (didn't level it up), fungal arts, tinkering
Wallach said:Nice job! I guess not even his mother loved him, but he showed them all didn't he?
I think maybe we should extend the contest until Sunday. That way we always end on the tail end of the weekend (so people can do some last chance work if they are busy on the weekdays).
Wallach said:KuroNeeko said:Hey Wallach,
Just finished up my runs for the DoD competition and was wondering if you could answer a few questions.
As two out of my three characters died early, I was only really able to explore your build with one character. Not having much experience with any of the skills really, I decided to go down Fleshsmithing to go for the damage spell at level 2 and the heal spell at level 3.
As I progressed down the tree, I realized that I didn't have much offensive capability. Fleshbore was good for killing most mobs in a single cast, but fairly mana intensive. I still had to rely a lot on buy the 25 gold potion (grog?) from the vendors and distilling it into Dwarven Gut Rot. (BTW, really earned a whole new appreciation for Alchemy, if only for the distilling alone...)
After I got the heal, I went for the zombie, hoping that he'd be durable enough to take out multiple mobs and help me save mana while I built took an extra level in Alchemy for the tier two distilling and magic bonus. I then planned on finishing Blood Magic. Then I planned on grabbing the last rank of Flesh if my mana had stabilized or going into the Magic Training tree for more mana / regeneration.
In retrospect, I think going Necro first would have been a better choice which brings me to the question - what is the Fleshsmithing in there for? How are you using the Meatshield? Seems like the mana investment coupled with the risk of having it beaten off seems like too much of a gamble. Did you ever bother raising your Wand Mastery?
Anyway, thanks for the build. Learned a lot about the game in general.
Well, this build is not actually the build I first beat the game with. Where Wand Mastery and Alchemy are, there was Vampirism and Staves. Also, when I did that run I had never played with Necronomiconomics or Fleshsmithing before.
I got lucky on that first run and was able to hit level 2 - I think that is really the test for any of these very wizard-heavy builds. If you can get to level 2, you can probably continue on somewhat safely. But getting to level 2 sucks, which is why I initially had Vampirism and Staves, because I figured at the least I might be able to bash my way to level 2.
Like you, on that run I also went down Fleshsmithing before touching Necronomiconomics. The big reason for me doing so was to get to the heal; I figured that with a solid way to heal myself at range (being a vampire) I would be able to easily exploit the Necronomiconomics spells to my advantage. However, like you I also realized when I got there that I'd really hurt my offensive power and almost did not make it off floor 4 due to struggling with the mana balancing act when taking on the monster zoo there. I was tough to kill while I had mana, but I had to spend that mana quite fast to get my own killing done outside of melee. Up to then I'd be able to get through most of floors 2 and 3 by using single casts of Fleshbore on tougher monsters, and otherwise just bashing the rest.
However, that first point into Necronomiconomics revealed my mistake. I had no idea that Nightmare Curse did not hurt your life pool, but instead hurt your magic pool. By the time I had taken it (somewhere on floor 4) the mana cost was very low compared to Fleshbore and the debuff was really easy to handle. Once I had taken that I decided to finish off Fleshsmithing because I was desperately needing an AoE to deal with groups and especially the upcoming monster zoos and I wasn't going to get enough levels to get all the way to the rank 6 Necronomiconomics spell before I hit that wall. Again that proved to be a waste because the zombie spell is quite useless and while the rank 6 AoE is not bad at all for Fleshsmithing, it pales in comparison to Necronomiconomics' rank 6 AoE.
Now, when it comes to why I redesigned the build like this, it's for a few reasons:
Wand Mastery: This went in for pretty much two reasons - to have a decent shot at getting through that first level with a decent wand draw, and to get the wand Entropy-lowering cooldown. The latter is very powerful for later game utility because you can use the Zodiac wand to wipe off your entire debuff stack from Necronomiconomics. So if you can just get one or two Zodiac wands you can keep them for the whole run with just that skill and it really allows you to fire off more spells in short periods safely.
Alchemy: The main reason I wanted this is because I wanted to ditch Vampirism. Once you get rolling in this build you really have no reason to be in melee range ever again, and you don't really have a reliable pet to smack for vampirism healing until late Fleshsmithing. This allows you to make orbs up through Molten Orb (which is good to dual wield instead of bothering with a staff), gives you all kinds of potions and drinks so if you can survive the skill investment it really becomes far more powerful of a survival skill than Vampirism.
As for what Fleshsmithing really does here, I think it does two really nice things. One, it gives you a decent buff to further help you survive that horrible first level or two. Two, it gives you a no-cooldown heal spell, which is never really a bad thing in a permadeath game. Especially when you're using a school of magic that has the potential to hurt you quite badly. This dips in usefulness in the middle but picks right back up again when you get to rank 6 Necronomiconomics, as Tenebrous Rift has a chance of dealing health damage to you as a debuff and if you cast it too close to yourself (which is not hard to do if you don't have LoS buffs because the AoE radius is massive).
Ultimately, when the build is really firing right it's based on some very simple things: either fueling your Necronomiconomics offensive spells so that they become unbelievably deadly with every cast (to minimize how many times you have to cast them), or to increase your survivability as much as possible in ways that are still useful when you are not in immediate danger.
To specifically answer your other questions: I used Meatshield only in the very early game, to try my best to not die before getting to level 2/3. In my current game, I do not actually increase Fleshsmithing for quite some time - it is lower priority to me than Alchemy, Blood Mage and Necronomiconomics, and I don't think I'll go beyond Knit Flesh. As for Wand Lore, I do actually increase this but not until later. The skill that allows you to re-roll wands is good for turning something like an Arcane or Rock wand into a Coral or Zodiac wand, which are just incredibly useful wands for this build.
Oh wow, awesome! I didn't realize they weren't being added together. At some point around the 2nd floor I hit a point where I was absolutely destroying, I'm sure I would of cleared it if it wasn't for that stupid mistake I made stepping on a trap and not healing through the poison.Wallach said:Alright folks, with all entries submitted, here are the results in order they were received:
Note that only your highest individual score is counted, not the sum of all three runs as before. That makes the winner of this week's contest Houston3000!
If I've missed anyone, please PM me! Otherwise, Houston3000 will need to whip us up a new build to go and get killed with. If possible try to have it up by tomorrow at the latest!
Here's how I leveled up -Wallach said:Now that this one is officially concluded, I'm curious to hear what you guys thought of the build; what you liked, what you didn't, how you played it between your runs, and what you'd change if you had to put your own spin on it.
Houston3000 said:New Contest Build
- Axes
- Burglary
- Artful Dodger
- Fungal Arts
- Assassination
- Perception
- Psionics
I played a build very similar to this on Going Rogue. It's melee so it's tough but there are a LOT of tools for controlling a room and even escaping from bad situations. You don't have any crafting skills but Fungal Arts should provide you with everything you'd need. You'll have the help of your psionic abilities as well, don't forget.
The build was interesting.Wallach said:Now that this one is officially concluded, I'm curious to hear what you guys thought of the build; what you liked, what you didn't, how you played it between your runs, and what you'd change if you had to put your own spin on it.
Mh, I don't really like to rely on dodge chance for defense, but I guess I'll have to adapt.Houston3000 said:New Contest Build
- Axes
- Burglary
- Artful Dodger
- Fungal Arts
- Assassination
- Perception
- Psionics
I played a build very similar to this on Going Rogue. It's melee so it's tough but there are a LOT of tools for controlling a room and even escaping from bad situations. You don't have any crafting skills but Fungal Arts should provide you with everything you'd need. You'll have the help of your psionic abilities as well, don't forget.
Althane said:So I've been trying a couple of different setups back and forth. Currently my most successful is the Viking Vampire Dual-Weilding Swordmaster with side focuses in Armor, Smithing, and is also very perceptive.
I've torn through a monster zoo on the second floor without any issue. About the only hard part was the first floor before I was able to make a decent hitting weapon. Everything dies in 3 to 2 hits (well, that which doesn't die in 1), and I've got a really good counter rating.
So am I playing easymode or what?
Wallach said:I dunno, what difficulty did you pick at the start?
Things will get harder for you as you go on if you stick with melee, though. Especially in this build.
Okay, final patch release date for 1.0.4 can now be confirmed as Tuesday morning the morning of September 6th, 2011. Were putting one last beta out even as I speak, and the actual release candidate will be sent to Valve over the weekend. Why are we doing this? Well, frankly, because its a very bad idea to ever release a patch on a Friday. Thats just asking for something to go wrong and for everybody to be frustrated over the long weekend. So go enjoy your last few moments with Dredmor 1.0.3, and throw some Lutefisk on the grill. Next week, theres a whole new Dredmor waiting for you. N.
Althane said:So I've been trying a couple of different setups back and forth. Currently my most successful is the Viking Vampire Dual-Weilding Swordmaster with side focuses in Armor, Smithing, and is also very perceptive.
I've torn through a monster zoo on the second floor without any issue. About the only hard part was the first floor before I was able to make a decent hitting weapon. Everything dies in 3 to 2 hits (well, that which doesn't die in 1), and I've got a really good counter rating.
So am I playing easymode or what?
Edit: Oh, my fist game was my shortest. I opened the first door and got swarmed by Diggles. I was playing an Unarmed character, and didn't even manage to kill one.
Yup. I died with a score of 0.
Via Berksy said:Okay, final patch release date for 1.0.4 can now be confirmed as Tuesday morning the morning of September 6th, 2011. Were putting one last beta out even as I speak, and the actual release candidate will be sent to Valve over the weekend. Why are we doing this? Well, frankly, because its a very bad idea to ever release a patch on a Friday. Thats just asking for something to go wrong and for everybody to be frustrated over the long weekend. So go enjoy your last few moments with Dredmor 1.0.3, and throw some Lutefisk on the grill. Next week, theres a whole new Dredmor waiting for you. N.