Embearded
Member
If it is a PC, then its not an Xbox console anymore, is it?
PS5 Fans Against Multiplatform Games Email Sony, Get Response
- Thread starter LakeOf9
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
If allowing others to play games ruins a plastic box that a "grown man is attached to" said grown man needs to get out of the house more
Its a console
Not sure how many times it has to be said but its a console
Btw, its a console
hououinkyouma00
Member
The lack of quality exclusives and ports absolutely made a huge difference.
Xbox One got off to a bad start and instead of doubling down Microsoft decided that they should port their games to PC day 1. This immediately gave people less reason to buy the console that was already considered the secondary console for a lot of people that generation. They also did it during a time in which Twitch/Streaming was getting really mainstream and more and more people were buying gaming PCs.
Yes, many other factors exist as well. Xbox One actually had some great exclusives but overall it was not on par with the competition but porting games was absolutely a factor.
Xbox has never really done anything to create a loyal generational fanbase.
SmurfMustard
Member
You truly have the patience of a saint.
Some people here will lie in their death bed and their last words will be "It's not a console!"
Me, I don't give a flying frak. Call it what you want. As long as it is a nice box that fits under my TV and plays new games in good quality, I don't care. If it has access to other stores like Steam and Epic even better.
Can't come soon enough.
Embearded
Member
To be honest i've read contradicting stuff and didn't follow it closely.
If you say so, i believe you.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So you're telling me it's a PC. Gotcha.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
We have threads here on these very forums with leaks of the chip it will use even
Its a console
Hector Hall
Member
Mother of God, you are dense aren't you?
It's not a plastic box, it's a development and commercial ecosystem.
And yes, if that ecosystem is ruined then those who have heavily invested in it can have negative outcomes, so it's but normal they don't want that.
And yes, of course, having all its content in all the other platforms makes that ecosystem redundant, just as Xbox right now. And from there you can only go down.
So people that want to protect the ecosystem in wich they have been playing for decades, have their digital libraries, accessories, backcompatibility etc doesn't make them children, just that they, unlike you, understand what could happen.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Nahh I just don't have a zealot like Jr High affiliation towards any one box or ecosystem, I play what games I want where I want
But then again I am a functioning adult that doesn't engage is warrior mentality trying to defend my box of choice that some of you are so deeply connected to
Difference of opinion
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Nope. So what?
ShadyAcshuns
Member
They're right to have beef. Putting your games on multiple systems means less reason to buy your own hardware.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Sony should put out a line of stickers that can be placed on other devices. "Playstation XO^❑"
I will be able to cover up the ugly Lenovo Legion badge on my PC.
I will be able to cover up the ugly Lenovo Legion badge on my PC.
Dr. Samuel Hayden
Member
*Get Corpospeak Non-Response
Fixed.
Fixed.
Shane89
Member
They want it so much that Concord miserabily failed and new Bungie GaaS sh!t has been postponed indefinitely.Because that is what their users want?
The GaaS in that list are all old games. Noone want new GaaS
Embearded
Member
My point was that if the next Xbox is just a windows PC then Sony games that release on windows would run on it without any extra resource beyond Nixxes.
Heisenberg here says it will be a console so my point doesn't hold.
In any case, i would expect Sony and Nintendo to continue developing their 1st party single player games as exclusives, to take full advantage of their own hardware, boost their sales and keep the industry model the same as it has been for decades now.
But times are changing, so who knows.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Your point may still hold (admittedly I didn't follow all the back and forth) because even though its a console it will run Steam but remains to be seen what happens with Sony games on Steam
We are entering into a new era, might not be a great one but a new one none the less
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Either way it doesn't matter. If it's a Xbox branded PC, it's still part of their platform according to their own admittance. If it's some type of console-PC hybrid, still the same platform. I think Sony realizes they could make a lot more money by strategically releasing certain games on other platforms.
People may point to the top games on Playstation right now are Xbox titles but you have to put that into context. Sony has jack shit for games right now. Will this still be the case when they recover fully from this gen's mistakes? Are Xbox games gonna dominate the PS5's sales charts when Wolverine and Intergalactic launch (yea I said it, I think intergalactic is gonna sell well, woke or not)? I don't really think so. I wonder what the charts will look like when Death Stranding 2's numbers come in.
Still, my prediction is that Sony will strategically place certain games on Xbox and other platforms. Helldivers 2 is a smart start. It's not a full-priced game, it's multiplayer centric and it's not a tentpole title for PS5. It was a runaway hit on PC already, as PC carried the sales of this game. I think Gran Turismo would be a great fit on Xbox since they just lost Forza Motorsport. See...strategic. Other games like Spiderman would also be a good fit just because of how popular the IP is in general. I don't think it will be like...The Last of Us...or Uncharted...or God of War. If it does happen I would be very....VERY surprised.
Edit: Call me crazy, but if they did release some single player games on Xbox...I would say put it on Gamepass for a very limited time. Like 2 months. I mean fanboys would revolt...but again. Strategic. Get em hooked, the first one's "free". May convert Xbox folks to buy PS6 in the long run for the newest entry of those franchises. You never know, but if I was at Sony I'd consider it.
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Magic Carpet
Gold Member
I recently bought Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero dawn on PC. If those showed up on Gamepass now, I might be a bit miffed.
Suddenly I understand all the anger from Sony fans.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
I bought em too. I'm just talking business right now. I likely would still buy them even if they were on Gamepass for a very limited time, but I realize I'm likely in the minority there lol.
Hector Hall
Member
I have given you real, valid, factic reasons why someone wouldn't like their ecosystem of choice, in wich they have already spent many thousands in decades, to crumble.
Yet you decide that your reasons (I play everywhere, I am free as the wind, I am not attached to any plastic box (sic)) are the only valid ones.
I can respect your viewpoint, spending thousands on hardware and digital content and if that platform /storefront disappears, it doesn't matter because you will buy it again in another storefront or platform. But you could at least respect the ones that want to protect their investment, their content bought, and the very preservation of that ecosystem.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Everyone wants to be rich. Most people of average intelligence don't come near to bankrupting themselves for repeated entry into a rigged lottery.
Sony has even less excuse than the other dumbasses and hacks in the industry. They were sitting in a good position, literally taking tithes from all of that live service money at the height of the console market. If not in pure sales (and the Switch's 30+ million lead has developed in the 5 years since we supposedly moved on from the PS5), certainly in terms of revenue and number of total games sold. They watched EA, Ubisoft, Bethesda, Square Enix and others mess themselves up throughout the previous gen pursuing that shit, and took an even dumber approach.
Andrew Wilson and even Shuhei Yoshida or Shawn Layden would never have okayed that nonsense. Part of the reason the last 2 were pushed out from leadership.
I did say he doesn't have any taste. Which is flawed strategy in itself; to not have a CEO who either delegates the quality checks to reliable people or who doesn't have the humility or taste to check his own shit.
Everyone's making "record bank". As
StreetsofBeige
said, it's almost impossible not to what with all the price increases and digital controls that went into overdrive after coof. I'll also mention again that these pumped up PeeSea numbers top out at 800 million; not even 3% of PS revenue and also accounting for the money Bungie makes - which is no different from Microsoft stacking Bethesda and Activision revenue numbers onto their own. Ie, meaningless.It's such early days (even in Microsoft's full third party transition tbh) to make it out like everything's gonna be A-okay with no hitches. As it is, the PS5 is behind the PS4 by most of 2 million units. Enthusiasm is trending downwards with each underwhelming reveal and developments like this. It will only get worse from here. Even then, it's too early to say that we've seen the full extent of the 2nd order effects of all these decisions. We already know the impacts of the 1st order decisions; <500 million more dollars per year if that. We've already seen Steam numbers for current gen PS first parties plummet from their already negligible heights.
Bernardougf
Member
So you're saying its not a console..
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
iHaunter
Member
RickMasters
Gold Member
Meh….. I just want gran turismo, OG god of war trilogy and returnal on Xbox. I bought a few of their games on PC. But really I'd like them on my Xbox in my living room.
RickMasters
Gold Member
That's some small penis shit to get upset about.
Just wait till the announcements come rolling in……
reinking
Gold Member
RickMasters
Gold Member
Your last paragraph pretty much describes the next Xbox. I'll have my backlog, gamepass and steam all in one box. It might end up being the smartest move they made.
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Unknown?
Member
Good for you but SIE will be shuttering more legacy developers when this fails.
Syphon Filter
Member
its not an xbox ,its a pc. that isnt a good sell, not many will buy that. the steam machine is proof of that.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
RickMasters
Gold Member
No offence but I don't think you know what you are talking about. It's already been hinted at that it's going to be a hybrid console. It's not going to be something you build yourself. It's not going to require a mouse or keyboard. It won't require the same windows updates. Personally I expect something that looks like a console but with a PCI slot or thunderbolt port for ( maybe both) for upgradable GPU. You can already do this with the ally. And the im sure the Xbox-ally has the same feature. Given that this is MS/windows, I'd imagine a lot of tech overlap in certain versions of these next Xboxes that allow OEMs like ASUS to go above and beyond MS reference model Xbox.
I suggest you check out the vids on the ROG Xbox ally. It's probably the most tangible idea of what to expect from the next Xbox OS as far as how it unifies a console account ( Xbox) and a PC one like steam to one device under one GUI. If they put that OS ( which will be a far more matured and evolved version of itself by the time the next Xbox arrives) in the box, they have technically pulled that off.
Yes steam did try before….. but their is a reason they are going to be trying again. A lot has changed since the first steam box. I wouldn't even be suprised if they sold multiple steam boxes at varying price points. There comes a point where MS and valve lock horns a little more directly and all the peices are slowly moving into place for that inevitably. Their gaming OSs being the main factor. And the accounts. It's going to be a very different battle than the traditional console wars. With both giving gamers access to both their Xbox and their steam ( and their other accounts) accounts on either the next Xbox or the steam box 2.
These devices will be more streamlined than any PC but far more functional as PCs than any console before them . Some big changes afoot for next generation and gaming hardware across the board. We get small glimpses of it now though, what with MS partnering up with AMD for a line of APUs and GPUs rhat will most likely piwer a lot of these OEMs at different grades of power. I could see External and proprietary slot-in GPUs being a thing soon for these hybrids. The Hand held PC consoles are a good example of the kind of fragmentation and scalability of these hybrid consoles in the future. I think static boxes like the switch2 and the PS6 will still have their place but they're will be a place and audience for these hybrid consoles, with their custom Xbox-windows OS. And they may even become the preferred choice of the core gamer. Something that offers the upgradability and expdability in sleek console like form factor with none of the PC bloat….. now that will be something special!
CLW
Member
Or….people that demand that a company not devalue its/their product (the console) to shit status
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StreetsofBeige
Member
Yup.Everyone's making "record bank". As
Gaming has increasingly gotten bigger and game companies get way more direct sales now. All the sales Walmart, Amazon, Best Buy etc.... got selling games have shrink to peanut size. Used gaming is barely mentioned anymore as most people gone digital. And even smaller in size, all the stores that used to rent games are practically all gone. No cost of making physical cases and discs either. Nothing can make it better for game companies except squeezing those last batch of purist gamers buying physical to convert to downloads. Digital conversion has slowed. But what they try to do to physical gamers is tease them with amped up deluxe editions to squeeze them that way. First it was $10 for steelbook editions, then $20 for steelbook and some perks. Then it grew to $150 ultra edtion sets or some stupid Halo helmet or COD remote control car or binoculars or whatever (back then). And that kind of cheesy stuff continues now.
And then add on mtx and gamers buying games they'll never play (backlogging, which was definitely not a big thing when gamers are buying cartridges and discs), that adds even tons more easy profit.
But while that all should help game companies make more profits and margin, there is a problem. Growth. You always got to get bigger.
And that's why MS and Sony are going ports lately. Sony going PC porting (and recently some MS and Nintendo ports), and MS doing Sony/Nintendo ports since they've already been doing PC ports for ages.
It's easier to grow way back when digital was a new thing and easy sales came from direct sales, mtx and such. But once that normalizes out and is baked into current financials, there's only so much more gains that can come from that. So the next step to making a big bump in $$$ is reaching out to places youve never sold before.... other ecosystems..... oh ya I forgot.... MS and Sony have also tried maxing out sub plans having multi tiers and pricing when long time ago each console had one standard MP sub. By the looks of it with 3 tiers each I think, they've probably exhausted as much as they can do unless they want keep increasing the price or add a 4th tier.
Other industries are different, because distribution expansion (aside from goofing around with pricing or deal strategies) is usually the first thing to do because it's a golden opp with no other shenanigans to fiddle with. And then, expanding product lines to nickel and dime more sales (like game companies doing mtx/DLC as bonus content). In real life, they'd actually try to do both at the same time, but walled off ecosystems arent really a thing unless a company cant expand due to capacity issues or theres a pure strategic reason like Rolex not wanting to screw up their image selling in Walmart. Or something that doesnt make sense like selling perfume in Home Depot. I'm just talking stuff that can make sense if they want it to.
But gaming and mainstream crap you can buy at Walmart or a grocery store, expanding the pie is always priority. Gaming is now doing more because they've noticed their walled gardens arent enough to cover growth expectations and cost of dev. It's not that Sony (the key one focused on since Nintendo doesnt and MS has already been doing PC day one for years) isnt making bank. They are. But like any wall street company, they need to go bigger.
I totally get it that a first party company is more like a store, not a supplier. But expanding the pie can still be in the cards. Like why does Mcdonalds have packs of McCafe coffee sold in every grocery store? Sounds counterintuitive since it'd make them more money if that McD's customer showed up and bought a coffee and hash brown at the nearby McD 2 min from his house. But they must had noticed it's more profitable to sell that because they know not everyone wants to show up at a McD's drive thru or line up for their shitty greasy combos (though I'd argue their slimy Big Macs and fries are awesome!). Not everyone cares about going to a McD, but if they nail some sales from customers selling them packs of McCafe from a Walmart then thats better than zero.
Will that kill the brand? Maybe. I dont think it will until proven otherwise. We'll all have to wait years.... as some people said you got to wait for PS6 as it might not take effect yet during PS5 era. But it's really no different than any historical examples like LA Gear or Under Armour needing to grow sales and they decided to sell in Walmart or bargain chains. Supposedly they were going great, but once they did that distribution strategy it bombed the brand. Maybe Sony will experience that, maybe not.
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Xbox 360 slim
Member
Biggest cult in gaming
Xbox 360 slim
Member
Loading up my cod4 save from 2009 on my series x
Hector Hall
Member
You can't be sure only 1% will move with the ports strategy.
Sony told recently that hardware aside they were getting some 812 dollars from each Playstation user in average.
If they sell games for 60 dollars in steam or shop and get a 70%, that's 42 dollars minus taxes. So for each PS user that moves from their ecosystem they should be able to sell some 20+ games outside, that simply can't be a good plan.
This is all greed and pressure from Totoki to grow a bit more no matter what. Even without the 800 million from PC and others (MLBA in Xbox and Switch, Destiny 2 on Xbox, Lego Horizon on Switch) last year (500 something from Helldivers 2), they would still have had more than 2 billion in profits. They don't need the PC ports strictly speaking, and for sure they don't need to make ports to other consoles. But the extreme pressure of the directives is pushing them towards that, although overseeing that it doesn't affect the PS hardware sales, but I wonder if when they finally see the harm if they will turn the wheel or double down because some sob directive like Hulst or Totoki itself doesn't want to take responsability and attributes everything to changes in the market or whatever.
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bitbydeath
Member
Did you load it up from the cloud or was it already transferred to your system?
I also frequently load my Binding of Isaac saves and it's there from the initial transfer of systems.
The cloud itself isn't required to use it, it just serves as a backup for if anything were to ever go wrong.
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Xbox 360 slim
Member
….which is good, what if my system breaks?
bitbydeath
Member
You can perform a manual backup, but how often does your system break really? Especially to the point of non-recovery?
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
Since you asked so nicely...
As has been stated multiple times, Sony is making "record bank" like everyone else is because of record high nominal prices particularly in consoles that have remained high 5 years into the cycle including a 700 dollar SKU without disc drive, pricey peripherals, live service tithes, increased game and subscription prices, digital controls and an extremely prolonged cross gen period where 40-50 million of monied users are still on PS4. So not even all of Sony's revenue/profit is coming from the PS5.
But what does record bank mean? High revenue? Well, the costs to get that revenue are also at a record high. So profits? Profit margins?
While the overall of "this generation" looks good on the surface, it has been tight and bad enough for the bean counter Totoki push cost saving onto the organization. Given how many projects they have canceled of which I'm not sure have been accounted for yet and/or written off for tax relief on the balance sheets, and also haven't released at all, something tells me the picture will look a little less favourable later on.
All that said, the console is most of 2 million units behind the PS4 after pacing slightly ahead in earlier in the gen during a shortage. Also, despite game prices for the AAAs that make the bulk of the market being 16% higher and a record number of games being released on PSN per year, revenue made in game sales is down 12%.
All of this being predicated on the borderline false advertising ("we believe in generations") and more importantly the goodwill/momentum coming off the PS4. And a pair of Xbox consoles that we have on good authority have not even sold 30 million units, and whose sales momentum is plummeting continuously and fast. So there are already some canaries in the coal mine sounding off here. I predict the PS5 falls 10 million units behind the PS4 despite less competition from Xbox and a year longer in gen time. The PS6 is going to be a hard sell for a lot of reasons.
And that's on Sony's end. The porting has absolutely "hurt the console" on the consumer end. It is literally devalued by losing exclusivity to these games - to platforms that can outperform it at that. We were sold the idea that it's "free money" (no such thing) for PS, so they can fund more new games! Just like the remake/remaster spamming, multimedia distractions, and the live service push that has imploded and lost them hundreds of millions of dollars and 15-20 years of combined studio time. It's not benefitted the PS gamer at all.
We can already see the quality declining with games like SM2, much of whose PC porting work WAS actual done by Insomniac and baked into the budget. It only gets worse from here. How do you think yet more disappointing sequels from Sony will do in comparison to before? They'll sell less units and be fragmented to a platform, or now platforms that Sony will have to pay 30% to apiece. The math really does matter there.
No, PC ports did not kill Xbox alone, but it is 1) a key part of the overarching strategy that's continuing to strangle Xbox and 2) proven to be ineffectual in solving their problems even a little bit.
The gen is not over yet. And most of these ports have been of PS4 games 3-5 years later. Increasingly not the case. Plus we're not just talking about PC ports now, are we? The slippery slope was obvious back in 2020.
It doesn't have to be the "bulk" or even close to half. Even 15% would be enough to seriously change the picture for Sony as a whole.
No, obviously I do not believe that Sony FPs are good enough to entice a sizeable portion of the 120-150 million users on Steam. That doesn't mean you fundamentally depower your platform by going to get a few crumbs worth of them. I think they're good enough to sell almost exactly the number of copies they sold on PS4 - ie, 95%+ of people who would've ever wanted to play the game bought a PS4 and played it already. I think that's been evidenced by their myriad of ports and how they've performed, and how other games with late ports or newly multiplatform releases have sold.
All you're doing is training those people who had PCs but PS4s for the exclusives and even some currently unknowable but likely significant number people who just had PS4s and now PS5s to know they don't need a PS consoles to play PS games. Beyond the tangible sales of those games anyway, they provide general perception value - value that is lost when people can say "PS5 has no games!"
Steam grew because the market grew. Sony's exclusives sold more than they ever have before last gen too, as did Nintendos. There was still room to grow, especially now - not through multiplatformism, but through the lack of actually new SP games in general and prospective bumps in quality which are now getting further out of reach because of the strategic orientation. So I don't get your point here.
No it hasn't. The games that sell disproportionately well outside of League, Genshin and Gacha there are primarily Chinese games from Chinese studios with nationalistic undertones. I have said it before and I'll say it again:
Consider that Microsoft has had an aggressive PC strategy for 10 years at this point, and it hasn't helped the sales of their consoles or their games, which are and were selling worse than ever even pre-Gamepass, let alone post. Europe, America, China, India, it has absolutely not helped them in any region in any way.
Should there ever come a point when the Chinese audience breaks those very built in habits, it would behoove PlayStation to be in a position where their hardware is protected.
Again, it's not just about those guys that play SP games, and not all of them are 40+. I would know because I'm not.
HaaS strategy seriously dampens the chances that you will get better games. I will ask the same question to you I've asked many before, and you don't have to answer, but think about it: Is it a coincidence that Sony's games are coming out buggier, slower, more recycled and more creatively tired than ever when they're also throwing stupid resources at chasing live service slop, getting distracted with multimedia nonsense and whoring out their pipeline to multiplatformism?
Never gonna happen. Without an unbelievable breakthrough in applied physics that severely lowers costs and raises global speeds, there will always need to be local hardware for a mass number of people to be playing these games. The economics of energy and networking do not allow for the picture you're describing. Even Sony has come close to this realization as per Nishino's last statements on that matter.
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