Yeah, that's what it seemed like they were doing, but I haven't followed too closely so I didn't know if Wine in the future was off the table or not. But like said there's quite a few Linux enabled games already, so the selectionw ould still be good.
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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
Codeblew
Member
Not to get off topic but I have kind of wondered that if Steambox goes Linux/OpenGL and the PS4 is (BSD?)/OpenGL, it should make porting between the two platforms pretty easy. And of course OpenGL can run on Windows as well. If the 720 does not do well this gen, we could see the end of DX11.
Unlikely. The PS3 uses a modified version of it called PSGL but I think most devs just use LibGCM.
Codeblew
Member
Rumors are that PS4 is going OpenGL native and possibly ditching LibGCM/PSGL.
Really? I wonder why? I thought LibGCM is one of those things that really helped the developers get the most out of the so-so GPU.
Codeblew
Member
It did because it was coded closer to the metal than OpenGL ES was so it was favored. This time around, they are making the OpenGL libs the most efficient. Not sure if it is going to be straight up OpenGL or OpenGL ES.
alexandros
Banned
It is pretty much Valve, or rather the PC industry, joining the console race. And it's pretty much a given that there will be quite a few Steamboxes with an optical drive built-in.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I don't go anywhere as I haven't taken a game to a friend's house since Halo 2, I buy new and I have a ton of games on Steam. I understand how a large segment of the population feels but I'd be a hypocrite if I complained in large part about what the new Xbox is proposing itself to be as it appears that I'm their target market.
i_am_ben
running_here_and_there
you've never lent a game to a friend? Or borrowed one?
That was sony's approach this gen.
Card slots for cameras to enjoy on your tv, low end linux pc option, blu ray/dvd player, HDMI for high quality audio and video, easy and cheap hard drive to replace at end user discretion, bluetooth support for up to 7 devices, full bc for ps2/ps1 games, internet browser, pseye for motion gaming and video chat for up to 6 people at once.
I think Sony thought their browser was going to be their ace up their sleeve. While ms introduced a lot of apps, sony probably saw the browser as a portal to those same services like netflix, pandora etc,
Of course they also hoped you would be using sony tv's, sony remotes, sony cameras and sony memory cards with it.
It's hard to please everyone.
they did it in europe, or maybe a country in europe? i am talking as a international movement. microsoft, might, instead make it the focus from day one, and more of a uniform thing across the world.
people didn't flock to blu ray either. microsoft can position a dvr machine that you can use your hands and voice as inputs much more attractively. especially if it starts doing what tvii does and works with your cable box or satellite (just say xbox: comedy central and it takes you there, for instance).
I'd be a hypocrite if I complained because it doesn't effect me?
alexandros
Banned
I think that there are two main questions that need to be asked about the whole Durango used sales situation.
1) How will it impact day-1 sales of games? It's sort of an urban myth that game trade-ins fuel new game purchases. Is this really true? If so, game publishers are in for a big shock when they realize that fewer people are able to buy their AAAAA blockbusters.
2) What have Microsoft gotten in return for killing used sales? If Durango blocks used sales and Orbis doesn't, I imagine that third-party publishers showered MS with exclusives (timed or otherwise) and other benefits in order to get their way.
1) How will it impact day-1 sales of games? It's sort of an urban myth that game trade-ins fuel new game purchases. Is this really true? If so, game publishers are in for a big shock when they realize that fewer people are able to buy their AAAAA blockbusters.
2) What have Microsoft gotten in return for killing used sales? If Durango blocks used sales and Orbis doesn't, I imagine that third-party publishers showered MS with exclusives (timed or otherwise) and other benefits in order to get their way.
I'm scared that this "no used games"-stuff is really a Sony-MS thing.
Many publishers ignore nintendo anyways even without this stuff, so they could still just release their games on orbis + durango (+ pc with drm).
So if you want your GTA, CoD, Halo,GT etc. you have to buy it new.
It's not really a problem for myself since I don't buy used games or sell mine and I'm always online too, but I think that could get a big backslash from other consumers and lead to a really slow start for the next-gen.
I didn't believe this for a second before and i'm still very skeptical but enough people seem to trust AndyH, so I'm a bit nervous now.
Many publishers ignore nintendo anyways even without this stuff, so they could still just release their games on orbis + durango (+ pc with drm).
So if you want your GTA, CoD, Halo,GT etc. you have to buy it new.
It's not really a problem for myself since I don't buy used games or sell mine and I'm always online too, but I think that could get a big backslash from other consumers and lead to a really slow start for the next-gen.
I didn't believe this for a second before and i'm still very skeptical but enough people seem to trust AndyH, so I'm a bit nervous now.
Ugh. That would be such a shitty thing to do.
Baconsammy
Banned
No it wouldn't. It would be the smart thing to do. They're in business to make money, and if it works for publishers, they'll keep doing it to the detriment of Sony/Nintendo until they do it as well. On the flipside, if it fails, it takes Microsoft's console down with it and third parties will just move on over to PS4. Quite the gamble on Microsoft's part if true.
Unknown One
Member
What if EA blocked used game sales? Activision will take that to their advantage and release their games on the PS4 and get a cut of a bigger pie.
Brad Grenz
Member
They may offer a better OpenGL option, but I don't think anyone has suggested LibGCM is actually going away.
Baconsammy
Banned
Because Activision loves the used game market? "LOL EA, we're going to screw you by screwing ourselves. Take that!"
Doesn't mean it wouldnb't also be shitty.
Unknown One
Member
It's competition. If there is a void somebody will fill that void. Those that block themselves off will do themselves a disservice. Call of Duty won't be big forever. There is definitely going to be some big new IPs next generation. Hell if EA play their hands right they can definitely get more battlefield into households.
Just imagine a 60 fps 64 player experience.
Alx
Member
It would mostly be a gamble on their image... if it doesn't attract both the audience and publishers, MS can just disable the whole thing at the push of a button.
LiquidSolid
Member
Do you have a recent source for that? Because all I know of was the old 2012 rumour, which, even if it was correct, was probably old information from the very first dev kit anyway. It really wouldn't make any sense at all for Sony to drop LibGCM entirely. I could maybe see a dual implementation happening, allowing devs to choose between OpenGL ES (full OpenGL would be stupid) or LibGCM, but OpenGL would provide very few benefits, so it doesn't make any sense.
i_am_ben
running_here_and_there
You're right, it'd be a great win for consumers.
TheDrowningMan
Member
Steam isn't a platform holder and that's key, I think; if Steam prices got out of hand, there are plenty of other DD vendors to turn to. There won't be here, and expecting physical stores to dedicate a lot of space to Xbox games with this system is fanciful at best. It's not just the resale thing, but from a warranty standpoint, it'll be a nightmare.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Yes, as we can all see, publishers are scrambling frenetically to fill the Wii U's software void and the Vita's software void, just as they were falling over themselves to fill the Wii's software void in the past.
Oh good god I hope so... If every game released on PS4 is in OpenGL I'll be very happy. Not only does using an open standard make sense, it a standard that is easy for PC porting. It should allow Linux ports of titles.... STEAM BOX YO!
Hmm i cant see it being a full dvr type thing given all the loops they would have to jump through in countries in the eu. As for gesture etc tvs are already shipping with the gesture stuff packed in and have for some time so that wont be a big selling point. Although it could be like this gen were america gets the stuff and the rest of the world gets a gimped service for the same price or more. I think its kind of why 360 has struggled outside of the uk because the uk get the best deal live wise outside of the us.
How is it a urban myth? i do it i bet young kids do it too who dont have the money for a new game in full. The market is huge in the uk as people take advantage of trading in there old stuff towards new. Is it an urban myth people part ex there cars etc no it happens alot.
Co-authored by all the other manufacturers
Sony - PS3 bombed relative to the success of PS2
Sega - Saturn
nintendo - N64
If the idea behind online passes is to make money off used game sales then microsoft could still use them too. Saying well they already make money thanks to XBL Gold doesnt mean a whole lot since they could still make more money if they added online passes like Sony did. IE. Microsoft doesnt really care and doesnt have as much invested in it as Sony has done to fight used game sales.
What cant you redownload? Ive been able to redownload eveyrthing even things that arent available on the marketplace anymore due to loss of licence (Double Dragon for instance)
I dont think Third parties will want it to fail
TheDrowningMan
Member
Yep. I don't buy many second hand games, but I do trade plenty. I'd have bought maybe a tenth of what I have over the course of the generation were it impossible to resell.
megashock5
Member
Once again, my biggest concern is this:
Twenty years from now, will the games you purchased new still work if the servers to check your "ownership" are no longer running? Or will you have a library of coasters? That's what I need to know before investing in either machine, and it would affect a lot of people.
Let's just wait and see what happens, what they'll actually announce before we all cry DOOMEEEEEDDDDDD.
As far as I see so far most experts agree that although PS4 seems to have the advantage concerning horsepower but the difference on paper is probably larger than in real life.
MS just needs to be in the same ballpark as Sony and they'll be ok.
In terms of policies, like always online and no second-hand. Let's see what's announced.
I can see MS developing a framework for codes and stuff. If Kinect is shipped inside every box they can easily use their QR-like codes for passes. Just hold the pass inside the gamebox in front of your Kinect et voila game is added to your account. Would be much more consumer friendly than entering a 25 digit code...
I just hope they'll create something which allows you to borrow games from and to friends...
I won't see always online happening. Much more sense would make that the console would phone home every week or so. No permanent connection needed and most homes have some form of broadband. That way MS can verify console integrity regularly and more unstable connections will still be ok.
alexandros
Banned
I think urban myth was the wrong way to phrase it, please excuse me because english is not my native language. I wanted to describe a saying that is widely spread and one that is mostly considered true by most people.
Do you mean games bought on the Internet or not?
AHA-Lambda
Member
I have to ask at this point, how is this legal? It completely invalidates the First Sales Doctrine. I know people are going to say "but PC games do it too" but yeah why do they get away with it then?
And no, the EULAs/you only own a licence arguments are not a satisfactory answer.
yes I own a PS3 and 360 and am barely a PC gamer at all. Concsoles are dominated by AAA games and there is barely anything outside of that sphere that is financially viable, unlike PC which is a much more balanced mix of indie, F2P, AAA and mid-tier budget games.
Steam has succeeded where Xbox LIVE and PSN have failed in cultivating a healthy ecosystem of games development.
Do you even own a console, bro?
And no, the EULAs/you only own a licence arguments are not a satisfactory answer.
yes I own a PS3 and 360 and am barely a PC gamer at all. Concsoles are dominated by AAA games and there is barely anything outside of that sphere that is financially viable, unlike PC which is a much more balanced mix of indie, F2P, AAA and mid-tier budget games.
Steam has succeeded where Xbox LIVE and PSN have failed in cultivating a healthy ecosystem of games development.
Do you even own a console, bro?
eso76
Member
I think xbla and Xbox indie games are doing a very good job but your point stands.
The problem is console games' prices need diversification.
With every game retailing for 69, people will only buy AAA titles, they feel they get more value for their money.
'Smaller' games disappeared, original games became too risky, and a single AAA title can still make smaller companies go bankrupt.
I believe we'll see xbla and indie libraries grow and pricing to get similar to android - iOS .
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Won´t happen. Pubs will lose half of their sales.
Smart? More like extremely dumb. Pubs will sell half as much software and they have their shareholders to answer to. Pubs will lose plenty of money and besides if any publisher will do that consumers will always find a game to replace the lost game, like BF if COD went exclusive to MS (won´t happen).
This generation feels more "coordinated" than any gen before it... it feels like the major publishers got together in secret meetings and then with MS/Sony to convince them on a common path... similar hardware and shared goal to eliminate used games.
They didn't bother meeting with nintendo though... the publishers decided their fate long ago.
They didn't bother meeting with nintendo though... the publishers decided their fate long ago.
Indeed.
It's certainly putting a downer on the future of gaming for me, at least in regards to Microsoft and Sony.
It feels very backwards, and I really do hope it bites them in the arse if they do decide to do it.
So you think MS is doing it because they thought it would be cool to alienate their customers and gain nothing from it? Why would MS take such a risky move on their own?
Well it does benefit MS, for every game that is sold they get a percentage, less second hand games means more sales (in theory, although I really wonder if this will be true), plus the fact that having to input a code almost squashes piracy flat.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
If the price is as low as $5 I think that would be ok.
I highly, HIGHLY doubt that is what happens, though.
Carnby
Member
What's glorious about it, troll?
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Of course I have, I just haven't done it since 2010. This is in lent. Borrowed, I think I'd have to go back to the Dreamcast era for that.