Except Sony said in that article that the reason for the loss in 2011 was PS3 price cuts and slowing sales of PS2. Microsoft has made an overall profit on the 360 but it hasn't covered the losses made on Xbox. Nintendo also recently got into similar trouble when they lost a billion dollars due to 3DS price drop and currency issues.
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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
Except Sony said in that article that the reason for the loss in 2011 was PS3 price cuts and slowing sales of PS2. Microsoft has made an overall profit on the 360 but it hasn't covered the losses made on Xbox. Nintendo also recently got into similar trouble when they lost a billion dollars due to 3DS price drop and currency issues.
Right. Just seems odd to say the PS3 is losing them money and post an article that examines losses from a division that includes "...includes the Playstation family, PCs, Cameras, and LCD TVs..."
It doesn't?
And thus we have our answer.
Baconsammy
Banned
I don't buy used games. I hate them. I do sell my games though. It will affect me greatly. Right now the way it usually works is that I buy a 60 dollar game, more often than not with some kind of pre-order incentive (20 dollars off a future purchase etc). I play it, beat it, and when I feel like I'm done with it I generally list it for about 49-55 dollars on Amazon. Amazon takes about 5 dollars of that sale. When all is said and done, I've paid around 10 dollars for a 2-3 week rental.
If you read the article, you'd know you don't have the full answer. All of their game hardware was down in sales. It helped drag down the division.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
overall since 2001?
No they haven't.
but they wrote those losses off already I believe. Wouldn't be surprised if Sony did the same.
Baconsammy
Banned
Since 2001 they have not. We're talking about current gen, though. If we're going back in time to the start of the original Xbox, they're still at a net loss. And if we go back to the start of the PS1, Sony is now also at a net loss thanks to the PS3, and now the Vita.
While price cuts have had their toll, it's well known that LCD TVs have been a black hole of money for them.
I own original Xbox content that can't be accessed because the auth servers were taken down. I own X360 content that can't be accessed because it was yanked from the store entirely, even for redownload. I'm not particularly salty about Halo 2 maps and an icon pack, but MS has already proven that they can't be trusted with long-term access to digital content so I'm not gonna dump $1500 or $2000 into that over a generation.
People are just mad cause they would no longer be able to buy a console at the maker's expense and then only buy used games so the maker never sees a dime. Sony and MS don't care if they sell 10 million consoles less if the other 60 actually make them money.
BishopLamont
Banned
Microsoft did lose a shit load of money on the Xbox, but at least with the 360 they gained alot of market and mindshare. Sony on the other hand lost billions on the PS3 but also at the same time lost alot of market and mindshare.
You get a full refund for anything that can't be redownloaded anymore.
Baconsammy
Banned
Yep, the big difference is trajectory.
I expect this to be a strawman, or at least completely misunderstanding those kinds of people. And ignoring the people who keep buying new games by constantly trading in used ones, never caring to actually get used games themselves, and personally I value used games as a last report for games no longer sold new. I haven't had to deal with that as much this generation, but it still comes up from time to time.
Boaty McBoatface
Member
I can't download a copy of OutRun on 360 because Sega lost their license with Ferrari.
Never thought something like that would happen. Welcome to the digital future!
-_-
I didn't, and the "bonus" of being able to argue with MS's phone support staff for my money back is not at all a selling point. I'd also far rather the content than the few bucks, or I -wouldn't have paid for it to begin with-.
That is some BS. I'll never switch to digital only. Ever.
Glorified G
Member
I have OutRun on 360 too. Can't you still access it through your past download history?
Baconsammy
Banned
Yes, you just can't buy it new. There's been a few games like that. Mortal Kombat was another in my download list that wasn't on the store anymore that I was able to re-download. As someone else said, if you can't redownload it, you'll be reimbursed by Microsoft.
Imagine getting a sweet new game for the xbox720. You and your friends have been waiting for it for some time you buy it, go home, try it out, get the authentication done and you play it a bit "shit this game is good"
You call your bro Jimmy cause he was also expecting the game, but doesn't have it, you go visit him and take the game with you. You fire up on his Xbox720 aaand
perfectchaos007
Member
As far as the greater evil goes:
no second hand games >>>>>>>> DLC.
not only will used games be barred, but you won't even be able to rent a video game for their system. thats bullshit Microsoft, keep your activation codes to PC programs like Microsoft Office and Paint Pro, don't spread this dirty concept to video games.
Yeah if you want to bring over some video games to a friends party, you'll now have to bring your console as well. Its an unnecessary hassle
no second hand games >>>>>>>> DLC.
not only will used games be barred, but you won't even be able to rent a video game for their system. thats bullshit Microsoft, keep your activation codes to PC programs like Microsoft Office and Paint Pro, don't spread this dirty concept to video games.
Yeah if you want to bring over some video games to a friends party, you'll now have to bring your console as well. Its an unnecessary hassle
You can redownload, but it is a reason I'm against a 100% digital future (the option's amazing, I don't want to lose that either.)
However you won't want to buy from GameFly, my copies of NWN2 and its expansion CAN'T be redownloaded. At least they're on GOG now, and my CD keys are there so borrowing discs to install works still, but it's still stupid.
Yeah, seconding that. DLC in the right hands augments games, blocking used games entirely benefits only publishers and those who'd rather have a physical copy with their digital download, and I'd rather just have the game available digitally too so I can rebuy when it's on sale.
MaulerX
Member
So let's see... Sony are the ones that have the patent to block used games. Yet, it is Microsoft that is going to implement this tech? Doesn't make sense. Is Microsoft going to pay Sony licensing fees to make their console seem the worst? Or have they come up with their own proprietary solution?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
patents are nothing. You should go look up all the things companies like Apple or Sony or anyone really have patented and haven't come close to using. It doesn't stop MS from doing whatever they're doing either, unless it's identical to the patent.
There is no worthwhile evidence that the PS4 blocks used games as of now. There is several corroborations that the next xbox does. That's about it for now. If something comes to light, we take it from there.
Patents ideally aren't about ideas, but specific applications. If Microsoft achieves their anti-used game measures by using RF hardware on their discs then yes, they would need to pay or be sued, but if they require a code or something else then they're clear. In fact, as I recall Sony's patented TWO different ways to block used games, one before the PS3 itself came out.
Just like the PS3 doesn't play used games...
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/10/business/fi-sony10
I mean everything patented is always used right?
What I find even more funny is that patent was filed in 2000 which means the tech could of very well been used in the PS2.
Man, with those methods they keep proposing I don't think Microsoft even has to make serious effort to create their own solution. Though I imagine what'd most likely happen if they want to make it simple on consumers is to print each disc with a unique code the disc reader would see, register immediately (or after it asks you, I guess in case you're testing on a friend's console and aren't on your account), then once that's done it'll tell anyone else that the code's already been used up.
... Man, imagine the printing errors that could result from that. Just another reason I don't want to see this kind of crap, bad enough when they screw up printed codes as it is.
... Man, imagine the printing errors that could result from that. Just another reason I don't want to see this kind of crap, bad enough when they screw up printed codes as it is.
Unknown One
Member
Does somebody have the move patent with the guy doing a backwards kick like he's playing soccer? I hope Sony doesn't use their patent, Jack Tretton is very against blocking used sales.
Honey Bunny
Member
Not exactly, just that they lumped the gaming side together with the rest of their consumer products, which performed horribly, particularly TVs, and bring the numbers down. Something they thankfully no longer do as 'Game' is now listed separately from 'Home Entertainment and Sound'. The gaming division actually made a 29 billion yen profit in FY2011: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/12q1/slide/image/16_image.jpg
OT I really hope this isn't true, and that AndyH's source is wrong this time.
People always overestimate the power of marketing campaigns. If the idea strikes people as rotten they will revolt, don't care how much money Microsoft pumps into convincing them otherwise. Gamers can be an unruly and cranky bunch.
Indeed , not being able to share or rent games is very anti consumer .
We are fickle. But we are also spineless. The degree to which this decision affects someone is proportional how much they are invested in the MS ecosystem. How many people from the Halo community thread are going to give up their favorite series because MS makes some anti-consumer decisions? Microsoft's campaign will probably be the single biggest advertising push ever put into motion. Look at how much they spent with Kinect. They will dwarf that. And even if Microsoft ends up in 'last place' what matters is what that margin really is.
I was thinking about how this might work. What if most (but not all) of the content on a game disc is locked until you enter an activation code. Without the code you only get a demo of the game or say one hour of gameplay (like a PS+ trial). A game activation code comes in the box however the key thing is that one can also be bought from XBLM.
This would still allow people to buy and sell used discs but it would suck most of the value out of the market and enable publishers to earn money from used copies. Kind of like an online pass but for all content, not just mp.
I could see something like that working without being seen as completely anti-consumer.
This would still allow people to buy and sell used discs but it would suck most of the value out of the market and enable publishers to earn money from used copies. Kind of like an online pass but for all content, not just mp.
I could see something like that working without being seen as completely anti-consumer.
Baconsammy
Banned
This is incorrect. You bring your gamertag. Not your console. Microsoft aren't Nintendo. They're linking to you, not your hardware. Same applies right now for all your digital purchases. You can bring all of them to a friends house and play them now with nothing more than a USB thumb drive.
MaulerX
Member
Just like you can already do with XBLA titles, they can tie it to your account and not the console. And since your visiting your bro Jimmy, you can log in with your account and can still play the game so he can check it out. He'll bo so impressed with the game that when you leave, hell go out and buy a copy for himself. Mission accomplished.
travisbickle
Member
That idea has been swirling around the discussion, but I feel the logistics of keeping consumers informed and making sure no consumers are falsely affected are very complex.
We all saw what happened to the GAFer who managed to get a copy of Halo early. If Microsoft aren't involved in the sale of the product, it's very difficult for them to police the system.
Baconsammy
Banned
Or buy it digitally on the spot. Maybe even Microsoft will jump on board the Gifting wagon and let you buy games for friends. I can't believe they haven't done that yet. Or allowed for multi-disc games on Games on Demand. There's a lot of shit they need to fix/improve next gen.
alexandros
Banned
Isn't some DD stuff still tied to your console on XBL? I remember having to transfer licenses when my old 360 went kablooey.
Baconsammy
Banned
If you're online, licenses don't matter. If you're offline, they do. If your 360 dies and you replace it, you'll need to download the licenses to the new 360 in order to play your digital titles offline. Your digital purchases will play on any 360 that is connected to the Internet though as long as you're logged into your account.
I wonder how the Steambox would take off? Though if these rumors are true it certainly looks more appealing: why even bother with Microsoft's crap when Steambox does essentially the same thing but with better prices and immediate availability (assuming we're JUST using the Linux lineup here.)
The license transfer is so you can play downloaded games without signing into Live.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Only if you're going offline. Online doesn't matter.
DRM transfer is all built in to the Dashboard now. There are still a few oddities where you might have to redownload an item but it's all pretty seamless.
Better than the web-based DRM tool they had before.
MaulerX
Member
The license transfer is to play the games offline. Otherwise, you can play all your games on any system as long as your logged in.
edit: beaten
I would only really wanna go Steambox is if it actually played physical disks and was pretty much Valve joining the console race.
Honestly I'd skip it just because I'd rather keep up my PC since all of those games plus hundred more will be there. Though I suppose if Wine were evolved and nailed for Steambox the floodgates could well open.
But relative to Microsoft's offering it'd be preferable just because I can presumably use it offline, and if I have to tie games to my account I may as well stick with the one I'm more invested in. Plus better prices and I imagine less bullshit.
The Steambox would be pretty much like the Xbox, just with free online, less media focused, maybe Valve trying harder to get the Japanese exclusives (not sure though).
Codeblew
Member
I thought the SteamBox was not going the Wine route and was instead going to run a "virtual" linux environment within a linux distribution using OpenGL. By virtual linux environment, I mean setting up the paths to point to specific SteamBox libs so that they are consistent among linux distributions and will not be affected by the distribution OS/lib updates.