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[Satchel]

so publishers would choose to make less money than they would if used games were available? Because they would lose more money buy ignoring a console then by allowing used games.

But maybe they've looked into it and they wouldn't lose sales at all.

Maybe used game sales are more than we realize?

Maybe they think by siding with the used game blocker, they will increase sales of the platform and in turn their title.

In the end, taking this path is a long term move. A move to change gamer habits, cause a culture change.

EA refused to have online enabled for Madden on Xbox until MS complied to their policies and dropped NFL Fever.

they also ignored Sega for not having EA as the exclusive sports provider on Dreamcast.

 

[rdrr gnr]

EA refused to have online enabled for Madden on Xbox until MS complied to their policies and dropped NFL Fever.

It's very different from what amounts to potentially hundreds of millions in sales. Especially given how similar the architecture is, a port could be very cost efficient.

 

[Petrie]

Yes people. Steambox is the answer. Great sales on indie games available only on PC.

Great prices on Triple A games a year after release, modestly close to what will be available on Amazon!

Protest MS and Sony's adoption of always online DRM and no used sales by going to the exact platform that inspired it!

I play Steam games offline all the time, as well as most of my PC library. Not sure what you're referring to here.

Modestly close? You can get AAA releases for <$10 within a year.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

except one is very credible, one is not o_0 that's where we're at now. I wouldn't be surprised if kotaku based that off the patent.


I'm with you. I would dislike anti-used games but always online is FAR worse. Anyone who has ever played an always online game can attest to it. It's usually disastrous.

Yep, i agree. Always online drm is the worst of the worst.

 

[harriet the spy]

I play Steam games offline all the time, as well as most of my PC library. Not sure what you're referring to here.

Steam offline sucks for me.
For that matter, Steam online sucks for me too (I mean, the random IWONTCONNECTNANANA are infuriating)

Modestly close? You can get AAA releases for <$10 within a year.

Ah, come on. that's really not the norm. If you had said 20-30, maybe. And you can get tons of AAA games for 20 bucks on console a year after too. New.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Yep, i agree. Always online drm is the worst of the worst.

tbh I don't even care baout the used game thing but if PS4 has always online I'm going wiiU/PC I don't give a fuck :|

and handheld. Always online is as bad as it gets. I don't think some people realize how bad it could be.

 

[Petrie]

Steam offline sucks for me.
For that matter, Steam online sucks for me too.

Ah, come on. that's really not the norm. If you had said 20-30, maybe.

It is the norm. You might have to catch a sale on GMG or GG, but tons of them hit that price within a year. Arkham City is the most recent I recall, but that's because I usually stay 1 1/2 years behind and pay $5 for just about anything.

$20-30? You can get most stuff on PC for around $30-35 pre-release if you shop around. What are you smoking?

 

[Reiko]

Capcom already tried this with Bionic Commando Re-Armed 2 on PSN and it bombed hard there.

(Nevermind you couldn't outright play the game during the entire PSN outage)

So it's a interesting decision...

 

[shinra-bansho]

If one does it I'm sure both will. I don't actually care personally, but sucks if you buy used or tend to trade.

I imagine it will simply end up like an expansion of the online pass system.

Always online would be somewhat annoying too. Although IIRC Sony's solution didn't require online.

 

[Deadly Joker]

I'd be disgusted if Sony went this route as well. Guess it would give me several years to catch up on my backlog.

Ha, same. I'll probably just stick with my 360 for a couple of years if this turns out to be true. I have so many games I haven't even played on the Xbox. Plus, I'll still be able to play NBA 2K and Madden for at least for a couple more years for this generation. And I'm sure people will still be playing Halo and Call of Duty for years to come anyways. So I can still play those online.

Overall, it's still very depressing if it's true. I was really looking forward to this generation.

 

[H_Prestige]

I'm not saying Orbis will stop used games, just saying that both have rumors about it. Some guy said that not rumors about ps4 and it is a lie.

Durango has three separate confirmations. Very recently.

Orbis had one questionable rumor from a year ago and nothing at all since.

 

[User 73706]

I don't think I've rented or even bought a used game in a couple of years now. Is this really that big of a breaking point for people?

 

[rakkadakka]

You can get AAA releases for <$10 within a year.

Buy a Wii U if you want to make stand man. Then get a soapbox, stand outside of the last Gamestop as it closes. They'll call you the gaming Lorax.

 

[ALBOFIGHTER]

tbh I don't even care baout the used game thing but if PS4 has always online I'm going wiiU/PC I don't give a fuck :|

and handheld. Always online is as bad as it gets. I don't think some people realize how bad it could be.

Europe sales will crumple down. Americans will rage when their internet has hiccups or they wanna go to a cottage somewhere and want to put in some party games but no internet in sight or multiple realistic scenarios...

 

[rdrr gnr]

I don't think I've rented or even bought a used game in a couple of years now. Is this really that big of a breaking point for people?

There is also always online DRM and mandatory Kinect. The general philosophy is off-putting. Used games don't bother me... always online does.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I don't think I've rented or even bought a used game in a couple of years now. Is this really that big of a breaking point for people?

there is a HUGE amount of people that trade in games to get money for other games.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Durango has three separate confirmations. Very recently.

Orbis had one rumor from a year ago and nothing at all since.

Yes, and? One is confirmed (before rumored) and the another one is rumored. It dont mean "we are saved", we can only wait.

 

[Petrie]

For SP games maybe, but even then, you can still get them for cheap from Amazon on 360 > year after release.

Most of the COD's hardly go below the $20 mark on any Steam Sale.

CoD is the exception, not the rule.

It seems to me singleplayer games are the concern when it comes to "always online", as MP stuff like CoD you need to be online anyways.

Thankfully on PC there are dozens of other shooters that hit that pricepoint quickly.

 

[chubigans]

I don't think I've rented or even bought a used game in a couple of years now. Is this really that big of a breaking point for people?

It would have been for me a few years ago. Now I usually buy digital anyways, so this news won't affect my Durango/Orbis purchases.

I'm just really curious as to how they'll "reeducate" the public.

 

[Toski]

To the whole used games scenario with Sony. Internally there is real opposition for blocking used games, including - Jack Tretton



While this doesn't confirm or deny, when the console is designed in the west, with western markets in mind and the head of the largest western division in the company comes out and says that, expectation is that it holds sway.

I wonder if Sony capitulates to third party developers, could Orbis' supposed superior specs come into play? If Sony does as MS does and requires online and blocks used games, could they mandate that third parties use the extra power of Orbis to have technically superior ports?

If that is the case, we might see a repeat of this gen, but in the opposite halves.

 

[Eusis]

There is also always online DRM and mandatory Kinect. The general philosophy is off-putting. Used games don't bother me... always online does.

Yeah, to be honest always online is the greater of two evils by far. With used games we RISK games being lost unless they're successfully pirated. Always online... should Microsoft ever drop support WITHOUT patching the systems to not need it you NEED to resort to cracking and possibly piracy to play all your games on the system a decade or so down the road, unless they avoid another full on change next-gen.

 

[Soriku]

But maybe they've looked into it and they wouldn't lose sales at all.

Maybe used game sales are more than we realize?

Maybe they think by siding with the used game blocker, they will increase sales of the platform and in turn their title.

In the end, taking this path is a long term move. A move to change gamer habits, cause a culture change.

I think there are too many risks.

First, there's no way used game sales (for big, easy-to-find titles especially) are going to encompass new game sales, and used games on one console definitely won't encompass new game sales on a different platform. That just seems ridiculous.

Second, I think publishers would be in on over their heads with your second point. This goes back to the first point. Having exclusive games would help a platform, but unless PS4 completely fails, not to the extent that the additional new game sales they get on the Nextbox from having exclusive games would be higher than new game sales on the PS4.

Third, I highly doubt any console manufacturer has the pull to make their platform become the next PS2, and have exclusive games be an easy choice to make, especially since no used games (and, what comes with it is that you can't sell your games) and always online pushes away consumers, something the PS2 never did. Putting their eggs on a basket that consumers might shun doesn't seem very smart.

 

[JaggedSac]

I don't think I've rented or even bought a used game in a couple of years now. Is this really that big of a breaking point for people?

Yes, I trade in and rent games all the time. If game prices reduced faster and there were more sales, I would be fine with no used games. But I don't see that happening. Although there was that LinkedIn profile that oddone posted that mentioned looking at various ways to enhance their distributions systems and mentioned Steam as an example of what they were looking at.

 

[AniHawk]

Third parties would NEVER leave the PS4 just to make a stand. They simply can't afford to leave millions of dollars on the table like that. It would never happen, not to mention that I don't think third parties are actually all that responsible for MS actions. Just today EA mentioned they see the value of a used game market.

i don't mean they'd abandon it, but microsoft could be working toward some exclusive content to make their library slightly stronger in the long run. similar to the xbox and ps2 where the ps2 would get crummier ports of xbox games like splinter cell.

 

[Orca]

It is the norm. You might have to catch a sale on GMG or GG, but tons of them hit that price within a year. Arkham City is the most recent I recall, but that's because I usually stay 1 1/2 years behind and pay $5 for just about anything.

$20-30? You can get most stuff on PC for around $30-35 pre-release if you shop around. What are you smoking?

Every 360/PS3 game I bought this year was new, day one, and $40 max. You can shop around and take advantage of preorder bonuses and discounts on every platform.

 

[H_Prestige]

i don't mean they'd abandon it, but microsoft could be working toward some exclusive content to make their library slightly stronger in the long run. similar to the xbox and ps2 where the ps2 would get crummier ports of xbox games like splinter cell.

Didn't stop the ps2 from stomping all over it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

they also ignored Sega for not having EA as the exclusive sports provider on Dreamcast.

It's ok, we got Sega Sports out of it, which beat the shit out of EA's games.

 

[Reiko]

It's ok, we got Sega Sports out of it, which beat the shit out of EA's games.

And we lost the stronger NFL 2K series due to EA's greed.

 

[Eusis]

It's ok, we got Sega Sports out of it, which beat the shit out of EA's games.

It'd only be OK if that also meant Sega killed EA's sports. Which didn't happen. :/

Though man, if that happened with or without the Dreamcast dying I think we'd be looking at a very different scenario right now, EA would've been robbed of their lifeline and Sega would reign as the football kings, and not just American football going by Football Manager.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not even interested in football. I'd just want to see EA's stupid shit stomped out.

 

[chubigans]

And we lost the stronger NFL 2K series due to EA's greed.

More like the NFL's greed. Didn't like the idea of a "budget NFL game" and decided to do an exclusive deal to the highest bidder. Sega didn't stand a chance.

 

[Reiko]

More like the NFL's greed. Didn't like the idea of a "budget NFL game" and decided to do an exclusive deal to the highest bidder. Sega didn't stand a chance.

True. It's been a shit generation for NFL games.

 

[Petrie]

Every 360/PS3 game I bought this year was new, day one, and $40 max. You can shop around and take advantage of preorder bonuses and discounts on every platform.

I don't disagree at all. My point was that PC games hit well below $20-30 within a year. Most hit $15 or less. Tons hit $10 and below.

 

[Satchel]

True. It's been a shit generation for NFL games.

I barely play sports games anymore.

Even FIFA has turned to shit in my eyes. I'm still on 10.

the only sports games I play now are Mario Tennis Open, Virtua Tennis 3 and Wii Sports Resort.

 

[Petrie]

More like the NFL's greed. Didn't like the idea of a "budget NFL game" and decided to do an exclusive deal to the highest bidder. Sega didn't stand a chance.

People always blame EA, but it wasn't their idea. The NFL wanted to sell an exclusive license, someone was going to get it. It was the NFLs idea.

 

[Tripp Daily]

That's a laugh. Things would have been far worse for them if they didn't do exactly that.

And their history of forced premium DLC and charging for peer to peer multiplayer, Netflix, browser usage, etc makes me anything but optimistic.

I'm a consumer here, not a shareholder.

The point being they did do exactly what was needed.

Please explain why Microsoft should make Xbox live free. They are constantly putting resources into it and updating it, and it is still the best option for online console gaming.

Explain how you would pitch in a meeting with management that you are going to throw away millions of dollars by making live free but continue to dump money and resources into it. And while you are at it, explain how Sony is going to sell PS+ on the PS4 when there are no old games to give away that will play on the system?

 

[Saint Gregory]

so publishers would choose to make less money than they would if used games were available? Because they would lose more money buy ignoring a console then by allowing used games.

I'm not sure if you're thinking about this quite the way that I am. Right now this would be dumb because both current HD consoles have 70 million + userbases but what about new consoles?

Publishers will cultivate userbases on the platforms that make the most sense to them, we're already seeing this scenario play out on the Wii U. Unless the PS4 is a major success at launch Sony won't be in a position of power just as Nintendo finds themselves in now.

 

[Baconsammy]

It's ok, we got Sega Sports out of it, which beat the shit out of EA's games.

What did we get? A good basketball game. That's it. That's the list. Their MLB game is total shit.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm not sure if you're thinking about this quite the way that I am. Right now this would be dumb because both current HD consoles have 70 million + userbases but what about new consoles?

Publishers will cultivate userbases on the platforms that make the most sense to them, we're already seeing this scenario play out on the Wii U. Unless the PS4 is a major success at launch Sony won't be in a position of power just as Nintendo finds themselves in now.

But what I'm saying is publishers have more to gain by cultivating 2 fanbases over 1, especially because Sony will sell consoles on their games and brand alone. Also this notion that all publishers will agree to do this together at the same time is ridiculous. For instance if Activision held back COD, you'd better believe EA will be foaming at the mouth to release BF4 on all consoles and try and beat COD as the overall brand.

Publishers ALL agreeing to back the durango and not orbis is such weird speculation I can't even do it. Just too ridiculous.

 

[Satchel]

The point being they did do exactly what was needed.

Please explain why Microsoft should make Xbox live free. They are constantly putting resources into it and updating it, and it is still the best option for online console gaming.

Explain how you would pitch in a meeting with management that you are going to throw away millions of dollars by making live free but continue to dump money and resources into it. And while you are at it, explain how Sony is going to sell PS+ on the PS4 when there are no old games to give away that will play on the system?

I think MS could restructure Live in a way that only adds online play to Silver, adds restricted limited choice free games to Gold, and it would actually increase the console install base.

 

[XtremeXpider]

The "always online" is confirmed?

 

[Saint Gregory]

But what I'm saying is publishers have more to gain by cultivating 2 fanbases over 1, especially because Sony will sell consoles on their games and brand alone. Also this notion that all publishers will agree to do this together at the same time is ridiculous. For instance if Activision held back COD, you'd better believe EA will be foaming at the mouth to release BF4 on all consoles and try and beat COD as the overall brand.

Publishers ALL agreeing to back the durango and not orbis is such weird speculation I can't even do it. Just too ridiculous.

So you don't remember the PS2 then? It got a lot of games the other platforms didn't see. Not for this reason obviously but you can't rule out the possibility of publishers prefering having a single platform to support again, think of the money they would save. The multiplatform nature of this gen did them no favors.

Remember that at the end of the day Sony needs the support more than the publishers need Sony.

 

[Baconsammy]

The "always online" is confirmed?

They haven't even confirmed a new console exists.

 

[Grecco]

But what I'm saying is publishers have more to gain by cultivating 2 fanbases over 1, especially because Sony will sell consoles on their games and brand alone. Also this notion that all publishers will agree to do this together at the same time is ridiculous. For instance if Activision held back COD, you'd better believe EA will be foaming at the mouth to release BF4 on all consoles and try and beat COD as the overall brand.

Publishers ALL agreeing to back the durango and not orbis is such weird speculation I can't even do it. Just too ridiculous.

Its the only justificaiton for the ridiculous idea that next xbox would block used games and PS4 would not

 

[HocusPocus]

LoL at all the overreactions to the Xbox 720 news in a negative way and all the overreactions on the opposite end for PS4. Both consoles will have great things and not so great things about them. Pick your poison either way.

 

[AniHawk]

Didn't stop the ps2 from stomping all over it.

the ps2 didn't beat up on the xbox because the ps2 had inferior games. the ps2 beat up on the xbox because it had a wide library, a trusted brand name, and it functioned as something else people wanted outside of a game machine.

 

[Satchel]

Its the only justificaiton for the ridiculous idea that next xbox would block used games and PS4 would not

Yep. Seems the only logical reason to do it.

Its something devs want, that would hurt sales for the manufacturer.

So the manufacturer wouldn't do it without some assurances.

 

[XtremeXpider]

They haven't even confirmed a new console exists.

I mean something like this:

Durango has three separate confirmations. Very recently. 

Is there some "confirmation" (in the same sense), for always online?

 

[BlackJace]

They haven't even confirmed a new console exists.

Ok?

 

[Uno Venova]

Its the only justificaiton for the ridiculous idea that next xbox would block used games and PS4 would not

At least we can agree the scenario is completely unfounded, unlike insiders saying one will block and nothing about the other.

 

[XtremeXpider]

At least we can agree the scenario is completely unfounded, unlike insiders saying one will block and nothing about the other.

No developers working in orbis confirmed xD