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[Petrie]

I know people who use 2 gig a month limit dongles to access internet. They won't buy anything that is "always on". I don't get it. What business decides that losing customers is good? I don't think this has been thought through but they hate used games enough to lose these customers I guess.

Sometimes it's better to make more money from existing customers than trying to get as many as possible.

Apple could easily dominate the tablet market more with cheaply made options, but don't because they'd make less money overall.

Market share isn't everything.

 

[Sweet Baby Roy]

Well I know what I won't be buying next gen.

 

[Respawn]

Yeah, the 360 comes with wifi now, and the new one will certainly come with it. If they keep it simple to connect, and make you sign up immediately. People will get online with it. People know how to do this now. They have smartphones and tablets on wifi right now.

The way to look at it is this. The customers spending money on Call of Duty and Halo are online. The customers who spend money on DLC are online. The customers who will spend money on F2P games are online.

Is everyone in the country online? No.

Is the market that Microsoft is selling to online? Yes.

Good post.

 

[michaelius]

With no used games I'm guessing microsoft isn't going to leave that used game/rental money on the table. Whats the possibility of digital game rentals coming next gen?

I'm 100% sure they will offer day 1 rentals for 60$ on DD services

 

[Eusis]

Oh yeah, something I should've commented on earlier:

Who here believes MS will come out and say "this requires an always on connection and will there fore mean you can not play 2nd hand games"? What a load of bullshit, they will feed it to us in some euphemistic marketing speak that makes the morons out there believe it's GOOD for them to have an always on connection which takes away their basic consumer rights, that of ownership and possession. They will not say "no more 2nd hand games".

I imagine that is what they WANTED done, but with this apparently proliferating to the point newspapers are reporting on it I think their plan at pre-emptive PR spin may've been shot down. Maybe people will just remember whatever's newest, but you can't erase a bad first impression.

 

[Doffen]

With no used games I'm guessing microsoft isn't going to leave that used game/rental money on the table. Whats the possibility of digital game rentals coming next gen?

A streaming service is more likely.

I imagine that is what they WANTED done, but with this apparently proliferating to the point newspapers are reporting on it I think their plan at pre-emptive PR spin may've been shot down. Maybe people will just remember whatever's newest, but you can't erase a bad first impression.

If the rumors are true. Again there are rumors about Xbox Durango and a Xbox top-set box, I could absolutely see a top-set box demanding always online and killing second-hand games with a streaming service.

 

[Big Takeover]

No competition for customers. I can buy a pc game from amazon, steam, gmg, and even retail. How many online stores do you think are going to be on the 720?

One. The Microsoft store, but feel free to buy a key from Amazon or Gamestop, or wherever.

 

[Xun]

A streaming service is more likely.

A streaming service is what I've heard from insiders, but who knows?

 

[QaaQer]

One. The Microsoft store, but feel free to buy a key from Amazon or Gamestop, or wherever.

we'll see. Chances are the only games on amazon will be physical, same as game stop. MS will want people in their dd ecosystem, where they make the most money, period. You know, kinda like how the windows store works on windows.

 

[Petrie]

we'll see. Chances are the only games on amazon will be physical, same as game stop. MS will want people in their dd ecosystem, where they make the most money, period.

Yeah, MS won't want parents to be able to buy gifts for kids. And we all know they don't sell Gold cards in stores because they don't want to give a cut.

Don't be so willfully ignorant man.

 

[Eusis]

Yeah, MS won't want parents to be able to buy gifts for kids. And we all know they don't sell Gold cards in stores because they don't want to give a cut.

Don't be so willfully ignorant man.

And we already have plenty of game codes being sold at GameStop anyway, so I don't think they'll want to cut them out. They're still saving on the usual manufacturing overhead anyway.

 

[Tobor]

I know people who use 2 gig a month limit dongles to access internet. They won't buy anything that is "always on". I don't get it. What business decides that losing customers is good? I don't think this has been thought through but they hate used games enough to lose these customers I guess.

Pinging a server to authenticate a game key won't use up 2GBs.

As I said, I'm not sold that this will be "always on". I think it will require Internet for authentication, which will end up being a non issue.

 

[QaaQer]

Yeah, MS won't want parents to be able to buy gifts for kids. And we all know they don't sell Gold cards in stores because they don't want to give a cut.

Don't be so willfully ignorant man.

Thats what physical copies and MS point cards are for, dude.

 

[Petrie]

And we already have plenty of game codes being sold at GameStop anyway, so I don't think they'll want to cut them out. They're still saving on the usual manufacturing overhead anyway.

Yep. The idea that retailers won't sell these codes ignores every bit of evidence in existence.

 

[Tunavi]

I don't play console games, but I have been "always online" since 1997. Console gamers are just going to have to accept this or nor buy consoles. You may not like it for a while, but you will get over it.

Feel free to throw a tantrum and scream into your pillows in the meantime

Nice try, Microsoft Viral marketer.

 

[QaaQer]

And we already have plenty of game codes being sold at GameStop anyway, so I don't think they'll want to cut them out. They're still saving on the usual manufacturing overhead anyway.

Isn't the whole point of no used games cutting gamestop out?

 

[Quazar]

It could be that used games aren't allowed to play online. So if you want to play online it could be that you have to purchase a new game or access to the game online.

 

[ascii42]

It could be that used games aren't allowed to play online. So if you want to play online it could be that you have to purchase a new game or access to the game online.

That's nothing new though. We already have online passes.

 

[QaaQer]

Yep. The idea that retailers won't sell these codes ignores every bit of evidence in existence.

afaik, a home game console without used media is a whole new thing. Previous assumptions no longer apply. And the whole point in having a closed ecosystem is to control pricing and limit competition. Why would MS want to encourage competition with their store? And where is the competition in the Windows Store? I'm pretty sure the only place to buy licenses for metro-style software is through MS.

 

[Darryl]

Isn't the whole point of no used games cutting gamestop out?

cutting gamestop out of the used sales, they still want them there selling the real copies

 

[Quazar]

That's nothing new though. We already have online passes.

Don't think I was saying anything about it being new. But it could be that simply picking a used COD copy up wont cut it if you want to play online.

 

[Eusis]

Isn't the whole point of no used games cutting gamestop out?

No, the whole point is to get more money from people who just buy a used copy instead of a new copy, wherever that used copy came from. They're not doing this because they want to kill GameStop (Sony on the other hand...), they just want to get money they feel is theirs. And while this logic CAN apply to selling games exclusively through their store, they gain visibility through stores like GameStop so they won't necessarily want to cut them out for it.

That, and if they really REALLY wanted to kill GameStop they wouldn't be doing pre-order exclusives or marketing with them. Drive people elsewhere to make GameStop less appealing, and then take more steps.

 

[QaaQer]

No, the whole point is to get more money from people who just buy a used copy instead of a new copy, wherever that used copy came from. They're not doing this because they want to kill GameStop (Sony on the other hand...), they just want to get money they feel is theirs. And while this logic CAN apply to selling games exclusively through their store, they gain visibility through stores like GameStop so they won't necessarily want to cut them out for it.

Why would MS give two shits about Gamestop?

It looks to me like the point behind the Windows 8 metro stuff was to get people into the microsoft store ecosystem, like iOS does for apple. And the point behind an always online Xbox with no used games will be the same, to get people into the Windows Store ecosystem.

Why? because it is very very profitable and it ties people to their platform.

 

[Eusis]

Why would MS give two shits about Gamestop?

It looks to me like the point behind the Windows 8 metro stuff was to get people into the microsoft store ecosystem, like iOS does for apple. And the point behind an always online Xbox with no used games will be the same, to get people into the Windows Store ecosystem.

Why? because it is very very profitable and it ties people to their platform.

Except the stuff on Windows 8 is smallfry, not AAA games, nevermind that Windows 8 pickup is very sluggish so they should be weary of that approach. GameStop and other stores give visibility, and they'll want to capitalize on that on games they sink millions of dollars into developing.

Of course, this is more from the idea that there isn't a physical copy, though they'd still want to try to ease people into digital distribution and as such a retail compromise could be essential.

 

[QaaQer]

Except the stuff on Windows 8 is smallfry, not AAA games, nevermind that Windows 8 pickup is very sluggish so they should be weary of that approach. GameStop and other stores give visibility, and they'll want to capitalize on that on games they sink millions of dollars into developing.

Of course, this is more from the idea that there isn't a physical copy, though they'd still want to try to ease people into digital distribution and as such a retail compromise could be essential.

Yes, gamestop gives visibility. But exactly how hard to you think Gamestop is going to work to push the 720 knowing that MS has taken away their lifeblood? IIRC, the employees were told to make sure every potential pspgo customer knew they were giving up the ability to buy used games. In that case, gamestop actually prevent sales of the item. If MS is the only company forbiding used, Gamestop will be actively working against them.

MS will be focusing on retail places that do not have a used games business model, like Walmart to push their hardware and games.

As far as Windows Store only being for small stuff, do you really think thats all MS ever wants to sell there?

 

[TheDanger]

Well if this is actually true, I'll get the PS4.

This is outrageous.

 

[Eusis]

Yes, gamestop gives visibility. But exactly how hard to you think Gamestop is going to work to push the 720 knowing that MS has taken away their lifeblood? IIRC, the employees were told to make sure every potential pspgo customer knew they were giving up the ability to buy used games. In that case, gamestop actually prevent sales of the item. If MS is the only company forbiding used, Gamestop will be actively working against them.

MS will be focusing on retail places that do not have a used games business model, like Walmart to push their hardware and games.

As far as Windows Store only being for small stuff, do you really think thats all MS ever wants to sell there?

None of that inherently precludes selling codes through GameStop though, not to mention that it is a fair warning for people who buy at GameStop as they may expect to be able to trade in.

And no, I don't expect Windows store to only sell smallfry stuff, but if they want to go big they'll need more than just throwing it on the store and some ad banners online.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

With PCs, it would be easy to break the security being used to actually keep the game from being kept and fully playable. On closed platforms it could work much more easily since you don't have access to everything a PC is capable of.

With that logic PC games shouldn't have any DRM since it's easy to break.

 

[Eusis]

With that logic PC games shouldn't have any DRM since it's easy to break.

This is actually the argument against many of the more draconian DRM setups. But even something relatively mild, like requiring Steam or just a CD check can be enough of a speed bump to deter people, plus Steam gives a lot of boons to compensate, so it's not like consoles going online-always just to prevent piracy. You're making a closed system, patch it up better if you don't want that shit happening, Wii, PSP, and DS may've had big problems, but 3DS and Vita seem mostly fine so far and the PS3 only recently got broken open anyway. Go use HD-DVDs as your game format or something if it comes to that, at least that'll be a proprietary format no one else is touching.

 

[Durask]

Uhhh, maybe, but that requires an amount of gaming savvy still. Most of those people are actually probably more likely to just go to Walmart and buy the system and a few games that interest them, and if they have trouble setting it up they'd probably take it right back and forget the system exists. Nevermind that the people who feed the used game system do so to buy more new games, and in any case for Microsoft they get ad revenue, so more eyeballs period helps there.

I think they must have some numbers on hand so if they do indeed want to kill the used game market, then their projections must include your considerations into account.

 

[Durask]

One more thought - and how is this different from the Kindle model?

 

[Deadly Joker]

Well if this is actually true, I'll get the PS4.

This is outrageous.

What will you do if the PS4 has the same thing?

 

[Big Takeover]

Yes, gamestop gives visibility. But exactly how hard to you think Gamestop is going to work to push the 720 knowing that MS has taken away their lifeblood? IIRC, the employees were told to make sure every potential pspgo customer knew they were giving up the ability to buy used games. In that case, gamestop actually prevent sales of the item. If MS is the only company forbiding used, Gamestop will be actively working against them.

MS will be focusing on retail places that do not have a used games business model, like Walmart to push their hardware and games.

As far as Windows Store only being for small stuff, do you really think thats all MS ever wants to sell there?

If they wall the whole thing off, kill used games, and completely alienate retailers and consumers, the system is dead before it even ships. Anybody would tell you that. It's an entirely unreasonable expectation, don't you think?

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Did Blockbuster closing hurt movie awareness? Indie record stores fell like flies during the 90s and 2000s, I think music survived. People will still find what they need, and the message about a games existence will still reach the masses. To claim Gamestop dying turns gaming into a niche is just ridiculous.

You are very wrong. There is a place in the gaming ecosystem for a place like Gamestop. They may be parasites, but even bottom feeders clean the shit off the bottom of the tank.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

Who here believes MS will come out and say "this requires an always on connection and will there fore mean you can not play 2nd hand games"? What a load of bullshit, they will feed it to us in some euphemistic marketing speak that makes the morons out there believe it's GOOD for them to have an always on connection which takes away their basic consumer rights, that of ownership and possession. They will not say "no more 2nd hand games".

What I love is on Rebel FM (one of my favourite gaming podcasts, mainly because of Anthony) Aegies saying it was probably Sony that would most likely do something like this, fuck off, now the tentative consensus is it's MS, he will start saying how it's great for the industry.

I agree.

A console with always online required is a machine with games that have an expiration date. What happens if i want to play my game 7 years later and no activation servers are online? Right, i can`t play my game. Of course, companys will talk bullshit and say we will patch it, trust us......... all right, of course you will do that.... NOT.

I will never ever spend my money for such a machine.

 

[QaaQer]

One more thought - and how is this different from the Kindle model?

I can read kindle stuff on my Nexus. I still don't like how tied ebooks are to amazon tho.

 

[QaaQer]

If they wall the whole thing off, kill used games, and completely alienate retailers and consumers, the system is dead before it even ships. Anybody would tell you that. It's an entirely unreasonable expectation, don't you think?

I'm guessing some really smart people at MS have run the numbers and surveyed the audience. They might be wrong, but I don't think it is a slam dunk that they are going to fail.

My belief is that they have moneyhatted a lot of next games and ports to next gen. They might just be timed exclusives and such, but people tend to go where the games are. And the upside is so golden, it is worth the risk.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

I can read kindle stuff on my Nexus. I still don't like how tied ebooks are to amazon tho.

That doesn't even make sense.

 

[quickwhips]

Imagine Anonymous targeting Xbox Live the night before Halo 5 launch.

I think they would be bored since they already did that to the PSN. WTF does this have to do with the xbox console specs in the first place?

 

[Big Takeover]

I'm guessing some really smart people at MS have run the numbers and surveyed the audience. They might be wrong, but I don't think it is a slam dunk that they are going to fail.

My belief is that they have moneyhatted a lot of next games and ports to next gen. They might just be timed exclusives and such, but people tend to go where the games are. And the upside is so golden, it is worth the risk.

Anything short of Microsoft buying Activision, and making COD exclusive has zero chance of flying. Competition is too stiff for them to proclaim it's my way or the highway. There's got to be a bone. If that bone was oh by the way rrp is now $40, now we'd be talking, but I can't believe they'd take a 50-1 bet on screwing the lot, and hoping to hit the jackpot.

 

[meta4]

KZ2 is my favorite FPS this gen. Make it like that and you have my money GG.

 

[iMax]

superDaE appears to have re-listed a "Durango PC" on eBay, classified as "Alpha Hardware, includes latest software".

Specs are in line with rumours, including an 8-core 64-bit CPU clocked at 1.6Ghz, 500GB of storage, and Blu-ray.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

superDaE appears to have re-listed a "Durango PC" on eBay, classified as "Alpha Hardware, includes latest software".

Specs are in line with rumours, including an 8-core 64-bit CPU clocked at 1.6Ghz, 500GB of storage, and Blu-ray.

Wasnt he implaying the specs were changed, possible upgraded?

 

[AgentP]

superDaE appears to have re-listed a "Durango PC" on eBay, classified as "Alpha Hardware, includes latest software".

Specs are in line with rumours, including an 8-core 64-bit CPU clocked at 1.6Ghz, 500GB of storage, and Blu-ray.

Seems like a douchey attention whoring move. Are these even legal to resell?

 

[iMax]

Wasnt he implaying the specs were changed, possible upgraded?

Yeah, but this is an alpha kit. Interestingly, this alpha kit appears to be in line with the rumoured specifications, implying that the specifications could have improved in later versions.

 

[AkIRA_22]

He's a Microsoft shill.

I wouldn't say he's a MS shill. I just think like all human beings, he has a predilection toward what he likes, as we all do. What I dislike is when he says he's not. As objective as we want to be, it's just impossible. I know why he does it, so people just don't write off his opinion which is fair enough, particularly considering his occupation.

 

[tipoo]

So right after all this shitstorm about no used games, this poll is posted on their facebook page...Hmm.

 

[Uno Venova]

So right after all this shitstorm about no used games, this poll is posted on their facebook page...Hmm.

I love the comments.

 

[Game Guru]

One more thought - and how is this different from the Kindle model?

How many physical books out there require your Kindle to be online for them to be able to be read? In addition, what is the likelihood that future versions of Kindle drop support for books from the previous version?

I imagine that no physical book forces one to be tied to a Kindle and Kindles will support the books they sell digitally for as long as Amazon exists as a company. Can you claim either of that about console games, where the rumor is indicating towards physical games requiring to be online and that consoles are not known for their great use of backwards compatibility.

 

[shaowebb]

If I want a system that's got specs that big, requires online all the time, and has no used game market then I'll just use my PC thanks.

I already own it, I can have as much storage as I want for cheap, my games don't delist, I can mod things, I have screenshotting and community functionality in game, I can upgrade my system specs if I want to, it doesn't red ring, and games purchased for it beat out the current used market prices anyhow so why should I downgrade?