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Elite Dangerous: Horizons |OT| Just scratching the surface

L

la_briola

Member
but...
money.gif
 
D

DrBo42

Member
Caesar III said:
yep, will do some runs today and tomorrow to gain some more money.
Click to expand...

Good luck. State of interdictions absolutely sucks, at least for me. Don't think I've won a single escape attempt unless it bugs out in my favor. Maybe it's because I'm on a joystick, dunno.
 
C

Caesar III

Member
DrBo42 said:
Good luck. State of interdictions absolutely sucks, at least for me. Don't think I've won a single escape attempt unless it bugs out in my favor. Maybe it's because I'm on a joystick, dunno.
Click to expand...
Did so yesterday with 20 missions. Had 4 interdictions in total which I do submit and boost away all the time.

BUT: I never started PowerPlay, so perhaps this is causing the massive interdiction rate some are getting.
 
BigTnaples

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Any GTX 1080 benchmarks yet?


I want to see how much I will be able to crank Elite in VR compared to 970's.



Have to play with everything set to low @1.5 super-sample of 1080p right now.

I would love to get a nice performance boost.
 
C

Caesar III

Member
BigTnaples said:
Any GTX 1080 benchmarks yet?


I want to see how much I will be able to crank Elite in VR compared to 970's.



Have to play with everything set to low @1.5 super-sample of 1080p right now.

I would love to get a nice performance boost.
Click to expand...
Would like to see this as well. Am running on 1x ss at medium right now.

But I'm eyeing at the 1070 to be honest.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
Anything y'all feel should be added? This is an outline of what I'll be covering in the launch thread:

Persistent NPC Relationships
-NPC Profiles
-NPC relationships
Enhanced Missions
-NOT the big overhaul (yet)
-More contextual and instructional details added
-USS scanning
-Nav beacon scanning
-Larger pool of rewards
AI
-More varied skill levels in enemies, with new reactions/profiles
-More surface-level ships that can follow and dogfight with you near with surface
Engineers
-Specialized characters with unique bases
-Rep requirements and how to increase
Crafting
-Primary/Secondary/Special Effects
-Sample specialized weapons/vids
New and enhanced hardpoints
-Huge weapons
-Missile buff
Enhanced Performance and Visuals
-Performance increase
-Better planetary detail
-Better fog and ring details
-Misc details
GalNet and Map Improvements
-Custom bookmarks
-Community Goals marked on map
-System state filterning
Little Stuff
-Ice RES: mining available
 
C

Caesar III

Member
DrBo42 said:
Good luck. State of interdictions absolutely sucks, at least for me. Don't think I've won a single escape attempt unless it bugs out in my favor. Maybe it's because I'm on a joystick, dunno.
Click to expand...
Around 10 interdictions @ 14 missions this time.

Became a bit lazy on the last two stations and wanted to try something. Breaking line of sight with the station between my ship and the scanning ship does not help lol. Lost those two rewards because of this but anyway. Now I'm at ~ 70 million credits. Tomorrow againd and I'm ready for 2.1 :)
 
Reckheim

Reckheim

Member
So I got elite dangerous VR working using my cellphone and google cardboard. If any of you guys are interested in trying it out. See below for an instructional video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is3BSKDqpig

Obviously the quality inst the greatest due to the limitations of the phone screen but to a certain degree it gives you an idea of what elite is in VR without spending $600 on true VR.
 
C

Caesar III

Member
Reckheim said:
So I got elite dangerous VR working using my cellphone and google cardboard. If any of you guys are interested in trying it out. See below for an instructional video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is3BSKDqpig

Obviously the quality inst the greatest due to the limitations of the phone screen but to a certain degree it gives you an idea of what elite is in VR without spending $600 on true VR.
Click to expand...
Would be interested to try this and to compare it to my dk2 :) I think the latency is worse :(
 
D

DrBo42

Member
Caesar III said:
Around 10 interdictions @ 14 missions this time.

Became a bit lazy on the last two stations and wanted to try something. Breaking line of sight with the station between my ship and the scanning ship does not help lol. Lost those two rewards because of this but anyway. Now I'm at ~ 70 million credits. Tomorrow againd and I'm ready for 2.1 :)
Click to expand...
Had a pirate interdict me and then system authority pop in right in front of me (had report crimes off) and scan me. Failed 15 missions. Haha. Fucking hate their scan system since they killed the ability to chaff and delay it. Hopefully I can get a few successful runs tonight. Just spent nearly everything on a Corvette, with an A rated Conda stowed away. Need to farm Empire rep in 2.1 and trade the Conda for a Cutter at some point. Hope there's some sort of cheese to fast rank with the new board.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
I just heard the news about the Robigo nerf. Why Frontier?

I'm going to miss going out there in my Asp for runs. I thought getting out that far to do smuggling missions was supposed to be rewarding. If I kept using my Asp as is, I could only walk home with maybe 10-15 mil a run. Maybe it's counteracted by getting a Python and using the Engineers to upgrade it's jump range though.
 
D

DrBo42

Member
Hylian7 said:
I just heard the news about the Robigo nerf. Why Frontier?

I'm going to miss going out there in my Asp for runs. I thought getting out that far to do smuggling missions was supposed to be rewarding. If I kept using my Asp as is, I could only walk home with maybe 10-15 mil a run. Maybe it's counteracted by getting a Python and using the Engineers to upgrade it's jump range though.
Click to expand...
Think it's the countless complaints about it that prompted the nerf. I mean, nothing comes close in terms of income per hour in the game. They've shown they're not the type of designers to bring other paths up to compete. They're very nerf and grind oriented.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
DrBo42 said:
Think it's the countless complaints about it that prompted the nerf. I mean, nothing comes close in terms of income per hour in the game. They've shown they're not the type of designers to bring other paths up to compete. They're very nerf and grind oriented.
Click to expand...

It's an interesting problem and I'm not sure how it's solved.

Goal: Make decisions and battles consequential and exciting by way of danger and fear of loss. Make risk a fundamental pillar of everything happening in the game.

Problem: Balancing income to retain a feeling that you're making money and progressing...but not so much that it removes any concern for threats or dying in combat or otherwise. And yet also not so little that it feels unduly punitive in the event of loss.

How does one make a game feel "Dangerous" and rewarding for success if money falls from the trees of Robigo, so much that 1.5 hours of Robigo laps yields enough money for your next 10 Fer-de-Lance deaths? That doesn't make me feel worried and I must say it removes any fear of loss. Without fear of loss, Elite only becomes "Dangerous" in name-only.
 
D

DrBo42

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
It's an interesting problem and I'm not sure how it's solved.

Goal: Make decisions and battles consequential and exciting by way of danger and fear of loss. Make risk a fundamental pillar of everything happening in the game.

Problem: Balancing income to retain a feeling that you're making money and progressing...but not so much that it removes any concern for threats or dying in combat or otherwise. And yet also not so little that it feels unduly punitive in the event of loss.

How does one make a game feel "Dangerous" and rewarding for success if money falls from the trees of Robigo, so much that 1.5 hours of Robigo laps yields enough money for your next 10 Fer-de-Lance deaths? That doesn't make me feel worried and I must say it removes any fear of loss. Without fear of loss, Elite only becomes "Dangerous" in name-only.
Click to expand...

With the state of most players' credit balance (since most of us that have been playing since or around premium beta are worth a billion or two), fear of loss won't be a reality regardless of difficulty for most of us. The reason being we've had no real upkeep cost or money sink. Repairs were the only thing remotely close to that type of balance and that got nerfed into the ground. What used to cost millions to repair a Conda now costs under 20k. At this point I'm not sure what they can do to bring risk back into the game. It only ever existed in the first place before you made your way into a trade ship or a competent bounty hunting ship.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
DrBo42 said:
With the state of most players' credit balance (since most of us that have been playing since or around premium beta are worth a billion or two), fear of loss won't be a reality regardless of difficulty for most of us. The reason being we've had no real upkeep cost or money sink. Repairs were the only thing remotely close to that type of balance and that got nerfed into the ground. What used to cost millions to repair a Conda now costs under 20k. At this point I'm not sure what they can do to bring risk back into the game. It only ever existed in the first place before you made your way into a trade ship or a competent bounty hunting ship.
Click to expand...

Agree. Feels bad.

I think maybe the real solution would be"

1.) Some sort of seasonal mode like we see with Diablo 3 and Path of Exile. Where you start with fresh character every 4 months or so and build up, outfitting your ship with special items that are only available in the seasonal mode.

2.) Create a Hardcore/Ironman mode where death really = death and you have to re-roll your character.

I'm not sure if any of those work for ED and splitting the player base might not be the right direction (some wouldn't participate in the seasonal modes), but I'd imagine it would take something along these lines to get the Danger back.
 
C

Caesar III

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
It's an interesting problem and I'm not sure how it's solved.

Goal: Make decisions and battles consequential and exciting by way of danger and fear of loss. Make risk a fundamental pillar of everything happening in the game.

Problem: Balancing income to retain a feeling that you're making money and progressing...but not so much that it removes any concern for threats or dying in combat or otherwise. And yet also not so little that it feels unduly punitive in the event of loss.
Click to expand...
Just use a living universe. After X missions for EVERYONE they run out in robigo. Players need to seek another robigo within a few days. Same with trade routes. CGs suggest it's possible to siege and dry out a system. But essentially it's not possible. There is a steady "income" of resources or the demand for them.
How does one make a game feel "Dangerous" and rewarding for success if money falls from the trees of Robigo, so much that 1.5 hours of Robigo laps yields enough money for your next 10 Fer-de-Lance deaths? That doesn't make me feel worried and I must say it removes any fear of loss. Without fear of loss, Elite only becomes "Dangerous" in name-only.
Click to expand...
With fear of loss of say 15 hours of gameplay (read grind) I would stop playing it immediatly! There are so many games out there to be played ;) If you want risk, buy an Anaconda without your insurance in the bank and do some fighting. Thank you!
 
D

DrBo42

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
Agree. Feels bad.

I think maybe the real solution would be"

1.) Some sort of seasonal mode like we see with Diablo 3 and Path of Exile. Where you start with fresh character every 4 months or so and build up, outfitting your ship with special items that are only available in the seasonal mode.

2.) Create a Hardcore/Ironman mode where death really = death and you have to re-roll your character.

I'm not sure if any of those work for ED and splitting the player base might not be the right direction (some wouldn't participate in the seasonal modes), but I'd imagine it would take something along these lines to get the Danger back.
Click to expand...
As much as I'd like to see a hardcore mode, never going to happen. Can't even get people into Open.

They need to up repair costs, munitions and maybe start having dock/storage fees. No way storing all these ships in a station would be free in that universe. Scale fee based on pad size and rep. Small enough that it won't murder your wallet but it will add up to something substantial over time. I'd up fuel costs as well, side by side with the ability to scoop and store fuel to sell. I'd take that a step further and give fuel grades like real life based on what you scooped it from/how you refined it. Maybe type X fuel has a benefit to explorers for huge jumps but has some negative effect on normal flight speed etc.
 
C

Caesar III

Member
DrBo42 said:
As much as I'd like to see a hardcore mode, never going to happen. Can't even get people into Open.
Click to expand...
I don't want to be punished by someone who has his grief moment ;) If I want PVP to that degree I switch to open or CQC. CQC areas within the universe would be ace. Perhaps a whole sector dedicated to PVP.
I'd take that a step further and give fuel grades like real life based on what you scooped it from/how you refined it. Maybe type X fuel has a benefit to explorers for huge jumps but has some negative effect on normal flight speed etc.
Click to expand...
that's something I don't get either. This would be perfect for Engineers as well. You can get materials in different grades like you can get things in other RPG in different quality levels. The higher the level the higher the probability to get a good item when RNGing at the Engineer.
 
D

DjRalford

Member
Caesar III said:
I don't want to be punished by someone who has his grief moment ;) If I want PVP to that degree I switch to open or CQC. CQC areas within the universe would be ace. Perhaps a whole sector dedicated to PVP.

that's something I don't get either. This would be perfect for Engineers as well. You can get materials in different grades like you can get things in other RPG in different quality levels. The higher the level the higher the probability to get a good item when RNGing at the Engineer.
Click to expand...

That would be pretty neat.

I've only logged about 36hrs game time so far in the last 2 weeks, but it's really drawn me in.

Still fairly poor though with a worth of around 4Million credits liquid + assets, currently flying round in a Viper MKiii thats doing me well at Nav sites.
 
C

Caesar III

Member
Regarding reward and risk...

What is the risk for doing those Robigo runs? There is none! You gain four million in credits if you succeed and if you do not you have to pay a fine of 20k? What the fuck!

- Let the player bleed 25% of the potential reward if he fails!
- Send some assassins after him to take him out (for a short period of time, lets say 3 days). He took the faction and it's shadow operations at risk! He needs to die!

With this, doing a 20-25 stacked missions run will be risky! If you fail at the fifth mission you do have 20 assassins after you and you gained nearly nothing.
 
R

Repo Man

Member
Was trying to get back into this after stopping shortly after the release of powerplay but I just can't do it which is frustrating as I'm quite fond of the game, especially the fantastic atmosphere.

Example from last night:

Come home from work and get playing, decided to finally fit a kill scanner as apparently its handy to have. I take a kill mission and fly off, jump to the system of the mission and start looking for my target. I find a USS and drop out of supercruise, theres some ships about so I decide to try the scanner on them and deploy hardpoints only to get a message saying I've exceeded my power limit... Ok, rookie mistake as I didn't check the power consumption of my modules before leaving the station so back I go and fit a better power plant.

I reach the system of my mission again and start going through the USS's, land on 1 and theres some npc eagle flying around which opens fire at me, I dispose of it with my Viper MKIII only to get half a fleet jump on me to retaliate, i barely make out of there with my ship down to 11% hull so I start limping back to the station for repairs, get interdicted but luckily for me its a lousy sidey which couldn't break my shields yet my frustration is growing as I just want to get on with my mission and I'm getting tired. Ship now repaired I decide to go out for one more look around but no luck, dock and log off.

I say to myself that I'm probably just tired and not in the right frame of mind so I tuck in for the night and decide to try again in the morning before work.

Morning comes and I log in to have a play, take a new mission which sounds a simple enough go to system X and kill guy Y so off I go again but all I can find of him is an FSD wake and do I have a wake scanner installed ? ofcourse not! so back to the station, fit the wake scanner and head out again. I find a wake after 5 minutes of flying around in random directions and as I'm approaching it I get interdicted and it was a bigger ship this time which got my hull down to 50% so off I go for repairs and then back out again. This time around the npc announces himself on the mission system so I go look for him but hes in supercruise and not doing much meaning that I need the interdictor to pull him out of supercruise. I choose the nearest station, dock and log off... the end.

This was just a shortened version of the ordeal, the whole thing took roughly 3 hours of my valuable free time.

I get the fascination and complexity of the game, it was one of the reasons I bought it in the first place as I was after something a bit more challenging and in the above examples I made my life hard for myself by making some pretty simple mistakes but... There just comes a point where you start asking yourself: "I wanted to play a game and have a bout of fun, is this fun?". For me the answer is simply no. I loved the game before powerplay but there wasn't a lot to do so when powerplay came I thought it could add a bit more game to the mix but still to this day I just don't get how it works even after reading guides and asking for advice. I don't consider myself to be the brightest individual but I'm not an idiot either yet this powerplay system just totally baffles me. So with all that said I don't think I'll be booting up Elite again anytime soon which again is so frustrating as I find the core experience so atmospheric and immersive.
 
B

Burny

Member
Repo Man said:
<snip>
Click to expand...

Any but the most fanboyish Elite players will agree that many aspects of the game are unfinished, often frustrating and convoluted or downright poorly designed.


The gripes you list are among the game's obvious issues. However, concerning your specific problems as described, patch 1.6/2.1, which ought to release today, will improve a number of aspects you might've found annoying.

For starters, there will be much less fumbling in the void for randomly generated USS. You can scan them from supercruise. Mission targets will also be spawned at specific places in a system, which you can either find by means of discovery scanners or by scanning the nav beacons. As for specific modules required for missions: The new mission board which is a vast improvement over the old (actual persistent NPCs!), will tell you very explicitely if a mission requires certain equipments.

The missions themselves will remain mostly as basic as they are, but the payouts should be re-balanced and your ranks will influence which missions are generated. Before 1.6/2.1 (and maybe after, remains to be seen) I would advise anybody who wants to actually have fun playing Elite to leave missions alone when starting out. Your impression of the game is based on one of the poorest and most underdeveloped aspects of it. Just going to
RES and bounty hunting was a lot more profitable and fun when starting out compared to missions. And a lot less frustrating. ;p
 
Mengy

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Repo Man said:
I get the fascination and complexity of the game, it was one of the reasons I bought it in the first place as I was after something a bit more challenging and in the above examples I made my life hard for myself by making some pretty simple mistakes but... There just comes a point where you start asking yourself: "I wanted to play a game and have a bout of fun, is this fun?". For me the answer is simply no. I loved the game before powerplay but there wasn't a lot to do so when powerplay came I thought it could add a bit more game to the mix but still to this day I just don't get how it works even after reading guides and asking for advice. I don't consider myself to be the brightest individual but I'm not an idiot either yet this powerplay system just totally baffles me. So with all that said I don't think I'll be booting up Elite again anytime soon which again is so frustrating as I find the core experience so atmospheric and immersive.
Click to expand...

Yep Repo, many of the missions are just obtuse and frustrating. The update today adds a nice new interface to the missions and a little bit of help deciphering them, but they are still the same missions, so many of them will remain convoluted like your example above. I personally never take any kill missions as they never play out smoothly or satisfactory, I have always had problems with any kind of kill mission other than the “go here and kill 5 pirates” kind. The more simple missions work well though, missions to deliver cargo, or to mine ores, or smuggle something, for example.

Elite is best played as a sandbox game, when the player is out doing their own thing on their own terms. But it takes a certain kind of person to find enjoyment in that, and that’s one of Elite’s primary problems: it’s just not easy nor fluid to get into unless you play it like a huge sandbox. The common complaint about the game, “a mile wide but an inch deep”, is very accurate. This is purely FDev’s fault though as they continue to add new features to the game without taking the time and effort to finish the game’s core mehcanics: bounty hunting, exploration, trading, piracy, all are the core of the game and yet all desperately need attention and fleshing out, even a year and a half after launch. Instead the devs spend time on things like Power Play, and CQC, and Engineers, and soon multi crew, and then adding fighters to the game. They exhibit a focus on pure combat much much more than any of the other core mechanics of the game, and thus the game still feels anemic even this long after release.

It's my largest beef with the game: the developer’s choices. A good foundation is still not a house until you actually build on it, but if you keep building other foundations instead….o_O
 
J

JambiBum

Member
Should have grinded out more Robigo missions while I could but was busy doing other stuff. I'm actually afraid to fly my Corvette now because I don't have a lot left for insurance.
 
R

Repo Man

Member
Thanks for your replies Mengy and Burny. I might stick with it and have another go when the update lands. I'm by no means expecting anything revolutionary but just some fine adjustments, I don't mind the current set of missions being a bit simple as I consider them to be just something to do even if its just a flavour text telling me to "go and do stuff over there". My gripe is mainly with some of the design which should be sorted out if what you guys say is true and works.

Heck I wouldn't even want any "epic" storylines or such added in as I think it probably wouldn't work. They kinda tried it with EVE Online a bit and it just didn't feel right in my opinion.
 
Mengy

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Repo Man said:
Thanks for your replies Mengy and Burny. I might stick with it and have another go when the update lands. I'm by no means expecting anything revolutionary but just some fine adjustments, I don't mind the current set of missions being a bit simple as I consider them to be just something to do even if its just a flavour text telling me to "go and do stuff over there". My gripe is mainly with some of the design which should be sorted out if what you guys say is true and works.

Heck I wouldn't even want any "epic" storylines or such added in as I think it probably wouldn't work. They kinda tried it with EVE Online a bit and it just didn't feel right in my opinion.
Click to expand...

For as frustrating as missions are in live now, they ARE getting better today, the improved navigation and aids for them will help a good amount. Some will still be frustrating, and some will be broken, but overall missions will be better by the end of today than they were in the morning.
 
S

SmartBase

Member
From Braben's AMA, there's no timeframe but...

DB said:
We have ongoing work on planets, including atmospheres, planetary life, walking about and lots of other very exciting things for the future.
Click to expand...

It's a bit weird how candid he is about it considering how tight lipped FD usually are, I guess now the question is when?
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
Yeah I'm super curious how their teams are set up.

Remember, at least one team was working on Horizons/planetary landings when ED first launched. It's completely feasible that work on S3 is well underway.

Did we get the Horizons reveal at E3 last year?
 
D

DrBo42

Member
Mengy said:
I'm curious, what does this mean in the patch notes:



When did we ever have SRV mining? Surely they don't mean shooting nodes to get materials, do they??? o_O
Click to expand...

SRV/planetary mining is coming and has been confirmed. Seems to me they included missions for it before they actually have the feature released.

Edit: Braben mentioned earlier that Jacques station has gone missing. Mengy go find it and get murdered by some Thargoids. :)
 
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