SliceSabre
Banned
Too high if you ask me. He is vastly over-rated as it is.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
ESPN Ranks LeBron as the #3 NBA Player All-Time. What say you?
- Thread starter GhostWriter24
- Start date
- Status
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Lebron is an all-time great player for sure. As a Sixers fan I have a deep routed hate for most things Purple and Gold, the numbers 8 and 24. With that being said there is no way in hell Lebron is a better player than Kobe.
Lebron James is top 15 easy but where in that 15 is up for debate but its not top 5 and not above Kobe Bryant.
Lebron James is top 15 easy but where in that 15 is up for debate but its not top 5 and not above Kobe Bryant.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Glorified G
Member
I've said it before. ESPN is the Fox News of sports journalism. They made a heavy investment in Lebron since he was a teenager and obviously will do their best to make sure it will payoff. That includes pushing false narratives.
Outside of Brian Windhorst and Jeff Van Gundy no one in the media is biased or stupid enough to rate Lebron that high.
The sooner everyone stops taking ESPN seriously, the more sense it will make. TMZ Sports has more credibility.
Outside of Brian Windhorst and Jeff Van Gundy no one in the media is biased or stupid enough to rate Lebron that high.
The sooner everyone stops taking ESPN seriously, the more sense it will make. TMZ Sports has more credibility.
Referring to his Cav years with Mike Brown.
transience
Member
Kareem was an absolute monster in the early 70s. I'm not sure that anyone's been as good as he was then. My list is Jordan, then Kareem, then a huge jumbled list from 3-12 or so.
ESPN is so full of it releasing the top 5 with Lebron on the day he plays Kobe for the last time. You just know they are going to ask Kobe what he thinks about this. I also agree that if Kobe retired say 3 years ago he would be ranked higher I just don't see how almost every current player says he's the best this generation is not in the top 10.
Fenderputty
Banned
Kareem is probably the only dude you could argue was better than MJ.
eDIT: Damnit Ryutaro.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
So Lebron's high school friend who has actually made a career out of him for the last 15 years ranked him 3rd? Seems fairly generous actually.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
From what I've seen, Larry Bird was closer to #1 than that.
I would also put Shaq over Duncan.
I would also put Shaq over Duncan.
CountAntonius
Member
Physically gifted top 3 yes probably even number one but he's not proven for that spot yet IMO.
Edit: He's proven himself as an amazing player and an all time great but he needs a few more rings for that top 3 spot IMO.
Edit: He's proven himself as an amazing player and an all time great but he needs a few more rings for that top 3 spot IMO.
LeBron is easily top 3. At his peak he was so ridiculously dominant and unstoppable. And with his incredible basketball IQ/passing ability, he could probably go on and contribute even when his athleticism leaves him. He's playing almost as well as he did ten years ago and he's just exiting his prime. He could go on for 3/4 years at this level still. And 15 years of continuous All-NBA level play is worthy of being considered a top 3 player.
Kareem and MJ as 2/1 is absolutely fine too.
Kareem and MJ as 2/1 is absolutely fine too.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I don't think LeBron would have won any of those Brown years if he made the Finals
2004 - Lakers would have won
2005 - Spurs would have won
2006 - Dallas would have won (and did in 2011)
2007 - Spurs did win
2008 - No one was beating that Czzz team that year.
2009 - Maybe they beat this Laker team but I doubt it
2010 - Same (especially with Artest)
So maybe he wins in 2009 or 2010? I doubt it because Phil Jackson would have destroyed Mike Brown in a 7 game series.
Just_myles
Member
Jay Sosa said:
Yup in this particular case.
However, LeBron can't see Kobe as far as i'm concerned. Kobe has more championships, and quite frankly, he has them as a Laker. That's honestly all I need right there. This list is biased.
theignoramus
Member
Rating Steph over Isaiah Thomas seems pretty disrespectful to me.
Lets see how his career shakes out before we rate him over a 2x champion who went up against Jordan and won against all time Celtics and Lakers squads.
I know the guy is breaking the game of ball at the moment, but its still too early to put him over made men like Isaiah.
Lets see how his career shakes out before we rate him over a 2x champion who went up against Jordan and won against all time Celtics and Lakers squads.
I know the guy is breaking the game of ball at the moment, but its still too early to put him over made men like Isaiah.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Kareem
The rest
Wilt
2. Kobe
3. Kareem
The rest
Wilt
theignoramus
Member
I dont buy this kind of shit as much as I used to, Popovich got outcoached by Eric Spolestra in 2013 and Doc fucking Rivers last year.
Depending on what people value most in players, I'd say Lebron can definitely be top 3. Me, personally, he wouldn't even be top 5 lol. I would say, atleast the 2007 finals loss, I wouldn't put that against him as the Cavs really had no business being in the finals that year. I would say that 2007 run actually looked good, despite the finals loss.
I have seen Lebron play a lot... and he really does seem to buckle under pressure a lot of times. He's a great player though, no doubt. I just wonder how much better he would be as a player if he was disciplined more under a good coach's tutelage.
Jordan being number one is legit though. He's got a good mix of individual accolades and team accomplishments. Though, I can also see people putting Kareem, Bill, Wilt as number one.
Lebron being number 3...shows more what ESPN writers value the most in a player though...
I have seen Lebron play a lot... and he really does seem to buckle under pressure a lot of times. He's a great player though, no doubt. I just wonder how much better he would be as a player if he was disciplined more under a good coach's tutelage.
Jordan being number one is legit though. He's got a good mix of individual accolades and team accomplishments. Though, I can also see people putting Kareem, Bill, Wilt as number one.
Lebron being number 3...shows more what ESPN writers value the most in a player though...
ryutaro's mama
Member
Last I checked, Spolestra (Riley's hand picked surrogate/protégé) had the best 3 players in that series, plus Ray Allen and barely survived.
Also, Spolestra isn't Mike Brown.
In the Finals, Phil has been outcoached by Larry Brown and Doc Rivers/Tom Thibbedeau.
That's it.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!
Oh well, at least Wilt is no. 5, Magic four, and Kareem two, ahead of Lebron. Seriously though, Lebron does not deserve to be three, but he's a top ten player of all time. I would place him ahbead of Kobe but below Duncan.
I still think Bill Simmons' top ten is definite and hard to argue with, although I think Elgin Baylor should be ranked ahead of Hondo.
Oh well, at least Wilt is no. 5, Magic four, and Kareem two, ahead of Lebron. Seriously though, Lebron does not deserve to be three, but he's a top ten player of all time. I would place him ahbead of Kobe but below Duncan.
I still think Bill Simmons' top ten is definite and hard to argue with, although I think Elgin Baylor should be ranked ahead of Hondo.
Hes proved that he isnt the greatest. Thats what
My man. The genius and greatness of Bill Russell is underdocumented and underappreciated, even with 11 rings.
I doubt I'd put him in my top 10. And that's not to say Lebron is bad. But he's got 10 all time greats ahead of him. I certainly would not put him in the top 3 until his career is over (or almost over), at the very least. Doing so implies you think he's on track to be #1 or #2, and he's no where near that.
I'd have him near Elgin on the outlier of the ten.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
Aside from Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan, nobody had the Basketball IQ of Russell. He knew how to win.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
Heh, I like Steph Curry, but I wouldn't go that far. MJ was a monster dude.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Not the only one. I'd argue that Wilt averaging over 50 pts./game for a season (and 45 ppg in another), averaging 23 rebounds/game for his career, and leading the league in assists one year just because he felt like it all make a pretty compelling case for him against anyone.
A lot of the meaningful individual stats in the NBA start with an asterisk. That asterisk is "since Wilt".
Curry dresses better too.
Michael Jordan is like an old black dude who really got into 90s alternative.
I legit don't understand how you can put Lebron over Duncan. It just seems crazy to me.
StylesClash
Member
That better be an example of sarcasm.
Duncan is like Tom Brady before Tom Brady became Tom Brady, but after he was Tom Brady.
theignoramus
Member
Lebron is flashier and more prolific and with the same monster efficiency from the field.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
I agree he needs a few more chips. He's not getting six. But if he got two for Cleveland, it would be hard to argue.
Assuming his career continues on the same arc and he doesn't tiger woods it up
Assuming his career continues on the same arc and he doesn't tiger woods it up
dragonyeuw
Member
I honestly think ESPN is trolling the basketball community with this one. First, I've been tracking this list the past 2 weeks and some of the rankings are way out in left field. I understand that these things are subjective but I can't follow any kind of pattern or logic in their rankings.
Now to Lebron. He's not the #3 greatest player ever. I'm fine with him being in the 8-10 range based on where his career sits RIGHT NOW, but no way in hell does he deserve top 3 status over the likes of Wilt and Russell. That is just total disrespect to the game's history and legacy of players who carved the path Lebron is walking on. He doesn't deserve to be ranked higher than Duncan, who was the clear-cut man on 4 title teams, 3 finals MVPs, and two regular season MVPS. I'm not sure if I would put Lebron at his peak above Duncan at his peak, that's subjective. But Lebron certainly hasn't done enough achievement-wise to match Duncan. Shaq? 4 titles, 3 as the man, an MVP, and arguably what many would say is one of the 3 most dominant peaks ever. I would take 2000 era Shaq over any version of Lebron. I fail to see how Lebron warrants being ranked over either of those guys, either as players and definitely not achievement-wise. But basically, when you get into top 5 category, that's not reserved for people who have 2 titles in 6 tries. That's reserved for 6 time MVPs and champions, or guys who lead a team to 11 titles, or guys who won a few times but averaged 50ppg and 25 rebounds in a season. Lebron, in stats or career achievements, is not on that level.
Now to Lebron. He's not the #3 greatest player ever. I'm fine with him being in the 8-10 range based on where his career sits RIGHT NOW, but no way in hell does he deserve top 3 status over the likes of Wilt and Russell. That is just total disrespect to the game's history and legacy of players who carved the path Lebron is walking on. He doesn't deserve to be ranked higher than Duncan, who was the clear-cut man on 4 title teams, 3 finals MVPs, and two regular season MVPS. I'm not sure if I would put Lebron at his peak above Duncan at his peak, that's subjective. But Lebron certainly hasn't done enough achievement-wise to match Duncan. Shaq? 4 titles, 3 as the man, an MVP, and arguably what many would say is one of the 3 most dominant peaks ever. I would take 2000 era Shaq over any version of Lebron. I fail to see how Lebron warrants being ranked over either of those guys, either as players and definitely not achievement-wise. But basically, when you get into top 5 category, that's not reserved for people who have 2 titles in 6 tries. That's reserved for 6 time MVPs and champions, or guys who lead a team to 11 titles, or guys who won a few times but averaged 50ppg and 25 rebounds in a season. Lebron, in stats or career achievements, is not on that level.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
Of course. It's click bait, which starts a bar-type conversation.
All in fun. They don't give a shit.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
Chill, fam Jordans are literally the best sports sneakers out there. They're also stylish.
- Status