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Etrian Odyssey Community Thread: The Ongoing Adventures of Fight and Heal

Nachos

Member
Dungeon design, music, class concepts and visual design (<3 Ninja and Princess especially), and story are all excellent in EOIII, but at the end of the day the bulk of the game is still dungeon crawling and party/character building and the other games do a better job on the latter.

I'd be quite interested in playing an EOIIIU if it got the remake treatment. Aesthetics- and story-wise, I think 3 is the least in need of a remake (of the DS games), but if EOIIIU happened and it did something to tighten the subclassing down just a bit, that would probably be a fantastic game.
This part specifically really summarizes my feelings on the game. The building blocks are there for the game to be a genuine classic, but I just didn't think they came together well enough for my tastes. It's crammed full of good ideas, but I think the bulk of the ones relating to gameplay come with some caveats.

The class selection is radically different from the ones in I and II, but there's a lot of overlap between the roles certain skills play, so distinctions already start to blur before subclassing even comes into the picture. Subclassing is a great idea, but because the only real difference is the class-specific skill and stats (the latter being easy to work around), when you get down to it, there's no reason to use princesses or physical classes other than gladiators or arbalists. Form Ki boosts the effectiveness of princess healing skills so much that it overshadows the princess' TP regeneration, and Endless Battle is just a straight +25% attack boost with no strings attached. The sailing mini-game is neat, but because it's so puzzle-oriented and because each trip costs a good chunk of money, it sometimes forces grinding in-between trips early on.

Plus, even though this is story-related, the alignment aspect doesn't feel all that real or meaningful, because even after choosing a side, nothing major changes in terms of how you interact with your opposition. They just make a comment every now or then, so the conflict feels less like an ideological schism and more like a squabble. I appreciate them trying to give the story layers, but neither side really attempts espousing their ideologies, so by the time you do choose, it's more a matter of picking whichever faction you dislike less than whichever doctrine actually resonates.

Everything else – the setting, the music, the character design, the enemy design, the atmosphere, and the labyrinth design
(except the 3rd stratum, but at least that's saved by its music)
– is top-notch. It's just that the gameplay serving as the foundation isn't fully fleshed-out, so the underpinnings feel shaky at times. You're right in that III has really aged the best of the DS games, meaning there's less a need for a remake, but I think that if Atlus makes an Untold 3, hopefully they'll have learned from their mistakes and later successes. If they do, I think it legitimately could become one of the best RPGs of all time.

This community is dead to me.
Nothing a nectar can't fix.
 

Zweizer

Banned
Gotta wait for Untold 3, Mauricio~

Boiling Lizard is bullshit. Glad I'm overleveled it by 8-9 levels.

Getting rid of the big stack of scales before the fight makes it pretty easy though. Most people also seem to forget that you can use the ice stakes during the fight.

Still, congrats on your victory!
 
Gotta wait for Untold 3, Mauricio~

I actually hope we get Untold 3 after EO5 which will probably use a new engine and look amazing.

I know that 3 is a mess in some aspects, it feels like they just threw everything they had on that game, and getting it polished/balanced would help it a ton.

III is just a really special game for me, it's the reason I'm here screaming about this silly series after all.

You mean Untold 4 right?

I'll only approve of Untold 4 if the main girl in story mode is a dancer.
 

Shengar

Member
Getting rid of the big stack of scales before the fight makes it pretty easy though. Most people also seem to forget that you can use the ice stakes during the fight.

Still, congrats on your victory!
Well, I already figured it out when I realized that I can use Ice Stakes mid battle. It is just its ability to set firewall+party wide fire attack+poison a pure hell. I can't imagined fighting it at the supposed level. Not to mention that Kibagami fainted mid battle and I can't used Roar to cancel out its regen ability.

But at least it doesn't have cheap one shot attack like that ice mantis with its frigid sickle. My Protector one shotted after Power Break+Guard Up+Rampart ffs.
 

Zweizer

Banned
I actually hope we get Untold 3 after EO5 which will probably use a new engine and look amazing.

I know that 3 is a mess in some aspects, it feels like they just threw everything they had on that game, and getting it polished/balanced would help it a ton.

III is just a really special game for me, it's the reason I'm here screaming about this silly series after all.

I really do appreciate the various new mechanics they tried with EO3 (even if I'm not too fond of the heavier story focus direction they took with it), so I'm not as bothered by its clunkiness, but yeah, polishing it would do wonders.

I'll only approve of this if the main girl in story mode is a dancer.

It's gonna be a
Farmer
~
 

Zweizer

Banned
Well, I already figured it out when I realized that I can use Ice Stakes mid battle. It is just its ability to set firewall+party wide fire attack+poison a pure hell. I can't imagined fighting it at the supposed level. Not to mention that Kibagami fainted mid battle and I can't used Roar to cancel out its regen ability.

But at least it doesn't have cheap one shot attack like that ice mantis with its frigid sickle. My Protector one shotted after Power Break+Guard Up+Rampart ffs.

Eating food that gives fire resistance before the fight and equipping appropriate accessories also help, but otherwise I can see it being troublesome if the fight gets dragged for too long, considering its huge HP.

Gotta need that Anticold~

Now that I think about it, I'm okay with this.

It fits the setting, too!
 

Shengar

Member
Eating food that gives fire resistance before the fight and equipping appropriate accessories also help, but otherwise I can see it being troublesome if the fight gets dragged for too long, considering its huge HP.

Gotta need that Anticold~
Well, since I'm just started playing it after 6 months break, I completely forgot about food >__>
Gonna be an Imperial of course.

I really wonder what class we'd get from EO4 in Untold 3. Arcanist would be awesome.
No it must be Landshark
 

Shizuka

Member
Don't hate me, guys. I'm playing my first Etrian Odyssey to completion right now, I hope you guys enjoy my thoughts when I finish it
and the embargo is lifted.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Like subclass them onto other classes to totally dilute class identity!

Haha. It's not something I personally ran into since all of my subclassing choices made the classes more unique, even if they were less optimal than choosing a combination that diluted a class's individuality. Given the game's difficulty (so far!), it doesn't really warrant heavy optimization, hence I felt that you could get away with a ton of fun combinations. Like, i'm running a Zodiac with Farmer subclass, because the character I had envisioned loves farming more than anything. I passed on Hoplite / Ninja, because my current Ninja is all about the Shadow Clones and it meshed with what I had planned for my Hoplite.

Ultimately, I really love the classes (<3 Princess, Ninja and Shogun) and the way I used subclassing didn't take away from them in any way. I definitely get where you're coming from though; character/class balance is damn important and it can be grating when it has glaring flaws, but it's just not a concern for me for EOIII.
 

omlet

Member
EOIV. If in doubt, always play it in release order.

I agree. Start with 1, realize EO2 is almost the same game but done better (sans story), drop I, and and play II first! :D
I'm not biased with my own EO experience at all, or anything.

Griffith, EOU1 or EOIV are both good starting places. In several ways IV is probably the better game but EO1U Classic Expert is really fun and lets you experience the story of how the series started without all the clunkyness of the original. Plus EOU has Hexers which are the bestest and EOIV doesn't have Hexers! :( If you're in for the long haul, play IV then Untold Classic Expert, then III, then Untold 2*. Take breaks in between to avoid burnout lol.

*EOII's story doesn't really have any major twists like EOI's does, so I think you'd be fine playing either mode in EOU2 first whereas I'd basically never recommend anyone play story mode in EOU1 first. EOU1's story mode basically ruins the best twist in the series, which is the main reason so many of us will say to do Classic mode first, to get the story told as it was (or at least very nearly was) in the original game.
 

Rutger

Banned
The class selection is radically different from the ones in I and II, but there's a lot of overlap between the roles certain skills play, so distinctions already start to blur before subclassing even comes into the picture. Subclassing is a great idea, but because the only real difference is the class-specific skill and stats (the latter being easy to work around), when you get down to it, there's no reason to use princesses or physical classes other than gladiators or arbalists. Form Ki boosts the effectiveness of princess healing skills so much that it overshadows the princess' TP regeneration, and Endless Battle is just a straight +25% attack boost with no strings attached.

I don't really think that's a fair complaint for EOIII, especially since in EOII there really was no good reason to use anything except three Hexers, and the force skills of both the Dark Hunter and Gunner, and I guess a Survivalist occasionally if you want to avoid all random battles.

The class balance in this series has always been pretty bad outside of EOIV(while I don't know how good the balance is in the Untold games, but the first one seemed fine other than the classes feeling a little incomplete imo). Subclassing is certainly better designed in EOIV, but I wouldn't say that EOIII's makes for worse balance than the games before it.

Of course, we can always use the less effective classes for a little extra challenge, that's always fun.
 

I get why there's an embargo but I always find it cute when Japanese games have them when they are released in the west, as we can just can just read Japanese GAF(or anywhere else) impressions.

Aside of the DLC stuff, Untold 2 seemed to be well recieved so I can't wait to check it out, it hurts that the demo doesn't have a Classic mode option.
 

Shizuka

Member

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I get why there's an embargo but I always find it cute when Japanese games have them when they are released in the west, as we can just can just read Japanese GAF(or anywhere else) impressions.

Aside of the DLC stuff, Untold 2 seemed to be well recieved so I can't wait to check it out, it hurts that the demo doesn't have a Classic mode option.

Is there an import thread though?
 

Nachos

Member
Guys, I don't think Untold 2's a good game.

I don't really think that's a fair complaint for EOIII, especially since in EOII there really was no good reason to use anything except three Hexers, and the force skills of both the Dark Hunter and Gunner, and I guess a Survivalist occasionally if you want to avoid all random battles.

The class balance in this series has always been pretty bad outside of EOIV(while I don't know how good the balance is in the Untold games, but the first one seemed fine other than the classes feeling a little incomplete imo). Subclassing is certainly better designed in EOIV, but I wouldn't say that EOIII's makes for worse balance than the games before it.

Of course, we can always use the less effective classes for a little extra challenge, that's always fun.

You're right, but I think that in the case of III, the brokenness is much more explicit. Since there aren't many hard limitations to subclassing, the classes generally feel more like skill containers, since you can take a main class, invest in nothing but the subclass, and get results comparable or superior to using that same subclass as a main class. Each of them still has a good baseline of effectiveness, though, so you can just pick whichever one you think seems cool or fun, but I think something as simple as cutting the subclasses' available level peaks in half would help a ton.
 
I just got the cutlass sword and I giggled a bit because the Buccaneer can't use it. The pirate sword cannot be used by the pirate.

I'm just at the first boss? I've really got back into EO3.

I'm currently using:
Front: Bucc/Glad/Monk
Back: Gun/Ninja

I got confused sometimes when Monk should Fight or Heal
 

spiritfox

Member
Put your Arbalist in the front row and use Front Mortar. But for now, use her row shot for the boss, you'll need it. Monks are better as dedicated healers than a dmg/healing hybrid, but if you want to DPS with a monk it's fine too. Just don't do both.
 
I get why there's an embargo but I always find it cute when Japanese games have them when they are released in the west, as we can just can just read Japanese GAF(or anywhere else) impressions.

Aside of the DLC stuff, Untold 2 seemed to be well recieved so I can't wait to check it out, it hurts that the demo doesn't have a Classic mode option.

What's classic mode?
don't kill me mauricio pls
 

Rutger

Banned
You're right, but I think that in the case of III, the brokenness is much more explicit. Since there aren't many hard limitations to subclassing, the classes generally feel more like skill containers, since you can take a main class, invest in nothing but the subclass, and get results comparable or superior to using that same subclass as a main class. Each of them still has a good baseline of effectiveness, though, so you can just pick whichever one you think seems cool or fun, but I think something as simple as cutting the subclasses' available level peaks in half would help a ton.

I agree that making subclasses work like EOIV would be for the best, and hope they do that whenever they get around to EOU3.

I don't really agree that EOIII's subclasses making classes "feel more like skill containers". I understand why someone might feel that, but I guess I just value the fact that I have options available to make any class decent compared to EOII's "no class could ever hope to match the Hexer in damage."
 
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