Mauricio_Magus
Banned
That's why I have a Runemaster and a Sniper behind... but the Sniper didn't do much in the demo, I assume the Sniper is like the Ninja from EO3 which starts weak and ends up being a binding monster of death.
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Etrian Odyssey IV: Legends of the Titan |OT|: Fight & Heal Brings 3D To Europe!
- Thread starter Volcynika
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That's why I have a Runemaster and a Sniper behind... but the Sniper didn't do much in the demo, I assume the Sniper is like the Ninja from EO3 which starts weak and ends up being a binding monster of death.
I wonder if the sniper is better paired off with an Arcanist, with their bind skills. Let the Arcanist bind and then follow up with massive dmg.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
The Arcanist seems like an amazing class, debuffer than can also heal? yes please, I'll probably change my Sniper for an Arcanist when they become available.
I haven't put that much time in the Demo (however many battles for getting to Level 10 and then ~30 on top) but the targeting mechanics seem to be relatively the same. That is, random targeting priority still goes through Front-Row HighestHP, Back-Row HighestHP, Everyone Else (at roughly the same ol' ~55%/21%/8%/8%/8% split). Then again, something doesn't seem quite right either so I guess I need to look into it when I have the chance.
I want to check Taunt's mechanics since all the breakdowns of it seem to list it as a %chance and that seems awkward to me. 80% Chance to Trigger is effectively terrible unless it's a separate check (that is, "Chance to be targeted due to Taunt" and then "Chance to be targeted Normally" both occur) and my time with killing every FoE doesn't really reflect an 80% chance.
Meh.
It basically all comes down to the eventual success rate of Binds. Arm Bind landing on an FoE essentially cripples their damage output. The damage of the Sniper itself wasn't that impressive at low levels but that's mostly due to their skill-tree being top heavy (and/or the low-end of the tree being wholly unimpressive on damage ratios). We'll see how it goes once you can subclass +Status chance on them, I guess.
I wish I remembered to put more time into the demo. Curious of trying L/N/D | F/R for my setup. Oh well. I'll stick with L/F/D | S/R for the time being I guess ;_;
I want to check Taunt's mechanics since all the breakdowns of it seem to list it as a %chance and that seems awkward to me. 80% Chance to Trigger is effectively terrible unless it's a separate check (that is, "Chance to be targeted due to Taunt" and then "Chance to be targeted Normally" both occur) and my time with killing every FoE doesn't really reflect an 80% chance.
Meh.
It basically all comes down to the eventual success rate of Binds. Arm Bind landing on an FoE essentially cripples their damage output. The damage of the Sniper itself wasn't that impressive at low levels but that's mostly due to their skill-tree being top heavy (and/or the low-end of the tree being wholly unimpressive on damage ratios). We'll see how it goes once you can subclass +Status chance on them, I guess.
I wish I remembered to put more time into the demo. Curious of trying L/N/D | F/R for my setup. Oh well. I'll stick with L/F/D | S/R for the time being I guess ;_;
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I agree, it's kinda weird... Taunt worked most of the time for me if not always.
Talking about the Sniper, I maxed arm bind for the FOE's and it worked once or twice in my 10 FOE fights, it was really disappointing... I remember getting way more binds with the Ninja in EO3. Another reason the Sniper was disappointing in the demo was the bow selection.
I'm going to completely copy your build and see if that works. I always get lost and confused with RPGs that give you all this freedom on the outset.
Yeah. EO3's Taunt/Provoke added an extra value of Rn(3..TauntValue) to the targeting function which essentially trumped the basic targeting. I want to say EO4's is more like this as well rather than an up-to 80% chance to be targeted. It should be adding something to the targeting function.
EO3 early FoEs didn't have hyper-inflated resistances since repeated applications of effects was harder; that and early Bind chances started around 30-40% and the formula* for applying Status Effects/Binds was weighed heavily in your favor early game. I just realized that I really should have checked this for EO4 since there's some classes that could potentially be pretty shitty if they kept this mechanic.
*A comparison of 2*YourLUC + TEC vs target's 2*TheirLUC + TEC; if the difference was great enough (22) you had double the chance of landing the effect. Ninja's had fairly good early game LUC and TEC, and enemies had poor ones, so you often got around 150-180% the listed chance.
L/F/D
R/S
Or
L/N/D
F/R
Are basically the two best starting party options given you know enough of the game to get around the whole "lack" of Medic (i.e., actually speccing for and using Regen Waltz, using Taunt a lot due to the low cost / TP recovery of Fortress, BUYING MEDICAS ;_
. Since they changed Rest to -2 Levels, it's not too bad now if you want to change up builds.so with weapons like the wand that have the little TEC icon in the corner... Does that increase your TEC when equipped? Does it means the weapons damage is based on TEC? Or something else all together?
Will be my first EO so i'm still trying to get the hang of how things work here.
Will be my first EO so i'm still trying to get the hang of how things work here.
I read IGN's review of EO3 last night - the reviewer HATED the game. He still played through it and recommended it to people who might like that sort of thing though
Jeremy Parish is doing IGN's review I think. He even posted in this thread earlier. It should be a fair one this time.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Just remember that my build isn't optimal, I'm not one of those crazy guys that looks for the best team and just goes with whatever works, I'm still experimenting with it... I actually had a Medic at the very beginning but dropped it by level 6.
I'd say everyone in my team is awesome except my Sniper, and even she helps a bit.
I didn't know they changed the formulas... I realllyyyy hope the Sniper doesn't get completely screwed by it. In another note, I'm enjoying the Fortress more than I enjoyed the Hoplite
Those are stat boosts on the items. If you get a Strength Ring, it'll have 3 or 4 STR icons at the bottom. They're indicative of how much of a boost you get.
It seems that each boost has a different amount for each character (A L will get more out of a single HP icon than a D), but I don't know the mechanics, so don't quote me on it.
One problem with keeping the fortress in the back by default is they don't get their TP regen. Probably not a problem early on when they don't use anything other than taunt but I think once you have them using more skills you'll want them to spend time up front for that regen.L/N/D
F/R
Are basically the two best starting party options given you know enough of the game to get around the whole "lack" of Medic (i.e., actually speccing for and using Regen Waltz, using Taunt a lot due to the low cost / TP recovery of Fortress, BUYING MEDICAS ;_
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Most powerful early build is probably a Fortress with 4 Runemasters haha
I've gone for a L/F/D N/R party. The Nightseeker in the back does decent enough damage, and I use him mostly for the blind.
Once I get the Dancer up to level 7 or 8, I'm going to go bear hunting.
For those that know the mechanics pretty well, how is % heal calculated? So if Regen Waltz's level gives me 130% heal, how do I figure out what exactly that means?
It should increase your TEC; those squares on items are Forges and you can later do them yourself (and/or it might've just been locked from the Demo since you do get a Luck Hammer via a Quest).
Staff/Wand Damage should still be STR based.
Yeah, the N front / F back setup requires some swapping around. I'd probably do that build with a back N until a Status Effect lands and then swap for the damage. That or just dealing with it and swapping as needed to heal up the TP.
L/F/D
S/R
Is probably what I'd suggest in general for people.
N / N
R / R / R
But, yeah, I should've added in "of the balanced groups" :x There's some gimmicky setups you can do.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
HP/TP Forges were +5% in EO3.
It's a percent modifier on their TEC value; EO3 had some extra stuff in there so I'm not sure what's changed here.
Man, the more I look at it, there's a LOT of stuff for EO4 that's unknown. Damn. I should've looked into it more so I'd have known how much I'd want to do work on / started playing the demo the day it released. Oh boy ;_;
Early game EO3, status effects were damn good. Literally nothing resisted them (many had 120% bases, actually) for the first few Stratum. Buccaneer's Blind was pretty stupid early game :x
Binds have always been good. I've loved them since the start and I've always tried to do something with them (hence the cookie-cutter EO2 party I made >>). EO3 they fell off if only because I disliked Wildlings.
Boring~
Dancer provides more utility and offense essentially.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
they aren't bad, but this is a game that only gives you 5 character slots, I don't want to use a dedicated healer when the Dancer with some items does the job
seriously, 6tp for healing a whole line for 4 turns is amazing compared to a single Medic heal for 5tp, think about it
also, Medicas are cheap as hell
GameCenterXDS
Member
Haha I'm just joking about that other thread this game started because of the female Dancer. It's not bad to me!
Irrelevant for blowing up FoEs
and then running to town to heal to do it again
Yeah, it's more a gimmick setup for taking down FoEs easily. N/N | R/R/R is about the immunity in the front-row plus Taunt-effects. Circumvent healing by just not taking damage in the first place.
Really, just make a balanced party of some damage thingies, some tanking thingies, and thingies to heal and you'll be fine with whatever the game throws at you. Be cautious and it won't really matter too much on your group. Just cover the bases of dealing damage, taking damage, and recovering damage and you'll be fine for the main game.
EO1 Medic was more about Immunize + flawed Damage Reduction system though :x
Bag limitation only really matters if you don't need to use the Medicas!
Whatever floats your boat, friend.
Nah, just kidding. I've been watching that thread, which led me to this thread, which is the first Neogaf thread I've been active in for months.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Binds for the fucking win
I know this is silly but I just noticed you're Scy fom the Into the Labyrinth forums, your builds and explanations saved me from probably dropping the series back when I got EO3.
I seriously only went to the forum back then to see your builds and posts, and now I'm giving newbies tips, Thanks for helping me out
Got my copy today. Why... is there no physical manual? Are publishers really getting that cheap? Seriously?
It's ironic since all first run copies come with a fancy art book and a soundtrack CD, but they neglected a physical manual :lol
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Got my copy today. Why... is there no physical manual? Are publishers really getting that cheap? Seriously?
I already knew that, really disappointing, I'd prefer a manual to the pre-order goods
Honestly, for EO2, it was more "I want to make DH work and fuck yeah, ECSTACY. WHIPS." The fact that Binds / Dominate was OP is another matter entirely :x
Haha. I don't post there too much these days. I originally started posting there for EO2 since I just wanted to help people with the mechanics and many people there didn't like GameFAQs, where I did most of my numbers work, so I had to do it on both boards :x
Yeah. I was opening up my package while watching the ending to Metal Gear Rising. Checked out the art book with CD. During the credits I opened the actual game casing to take the manual out and I was like....??????
:/
Got my copy today. Why... is there no physical manual? Are publishers really getting that cheap? Seriously?
Most games don't have them these days. Even Bravely Default and DQ7 just have single-page inserts and redirect you to the digital manual.
SolsticeZero
Banned
Art book? Soundtrack? Looks like I'm buying physical.
Maybe for Japan, but that isn't my experience with US releases. KH3D has no manual in Japan for example, but the US release certainly did. Seems like standards have just dropped further.
It's not really much of an artbook or soundtrack. It's a few pages of minimal artwork, with some staff commentary. The CD is actually MIDI prototype track samples, and not the orchestrated soundtrack from the actual game. That's kinda cool actually.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
The art book is disappointing as hell and the soundtrack only has only a few tracks
SolsticeZero
Banned
Booooooooooo. Well, I'll be buying physical anyways if it's not up in the next hour on the Eshop. Otherwise I'm taking a trip to Gamestop.
IIRC, neither Fire Emblem nor Paper Mario had anything but the little fold-out insert in NA either. It's just a standard thing these days, it seems.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I'm thinking of buying the game physically and digitally, someone stop me
SolsticeZero
Banned
You could buy it with both, and then give me your physical copy! =D
Lame.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I don't live in the USA, I pre-ordered my copy from Amazon ages ago... I just got an email saying it will take 1-2 weeks to get here.
Then should I start with a nightseeker or runemaster with L/F/D and S in the back
Unless snipers are bad too
EDIT: I don't know much about this series. I haven't really played it
Oooh. That's a pain. Mine is going to take a week to get here, but that's because I waited so long to preorder it. =\
Well, you could try to focus on some backlog reduction while waiting for it to show up, or read some books. Learn to cook new things, etc.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I haven't TOUCHED Fire Emblem, I have it since launch... I'm one of those lucky guys that got it at launch and I have it unopened.
Then should I start with a nightseeker or runemaster with L/F/D and S in the back
Unless snipers are bad too
EDIT: I don't know much about this series. I haven't really played it
Sniper sucks so far, but I still use one haha
Then should I start with a nightseeker or runemaster with L/F/D and S in the back
Unless snipers are bad too
Snipers are generic damage for awhile. Their skill tree is relatively top-heavy (then again, this applies to a lot of classes) but Arm Bind is ridiculously useful when it lands. If nothing else, having them to pew-pew from the back row will be really helpful.
L/F/D | S/R will cover basically all your bases while also giving you some mid-to-late game team combo options.
The best advice I can ever give for the game is to not get in your head too much about long-term planning and choices and all that. Cover your bases for a group (the Damage/Tank/Healing trinity~) and you'll do fine.
Are you both saying nightseeker would be better than a sniper overall?
Also, are the item gathering skills worth taking right away?