milanbaros
Member?
Apart from the result England were actually good. I was surprised.
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Euro 2016 |OT| Take a bow sson
- Thread starter Ape Gone Insane
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brokenbeans
Banned
A journo on Stan Collymores video claims they all rented cars and just drove over, he also mentioned they are hardcore and organised holloigans not just beered up idiots.
You mean like the Netherlands?
Yeah, apparently these guys are the real ultras. Like, almost militia-like in organisation. Not your random English drunk who likes to beat up others.
I really don't get how people get enjoyment from it tho.
Just watched Collymore's Periscope vids from last night. Credit to him for trying to film what was going on.
So small pockets of Ultras are littered across a square, and then whistles throughout the small groups signal their intentions, and they all converge and chase the English fans.
The journalist that Stan spoke to was from Channel 4, and said its Marseille and Toulouse Ultras, combined with Russian Ultras who hired cars to get across the boarder and give the authorities the swerve. My immediate concern is, if they can swerve the authorities, who else can?
This is a very different beast to drunken yobs giving it the big 'un in front of the local Wetherspoons (or the French equivalent). You've got organised groups, some with balaclavas, some with GUMSHIELDS, some with MMA-style gloves, some with weapons, etc, hunting down fans irrespective of whether they're up for it or not.
Any and all violence should be condemned, particularly during a time of immense tension thanks to the outstanding security threats, but this isn't like for like violence between these groups.
What's mad, is the response. Now I fully appreciated the pressure the French authorities are under, but if they aren't capable of maintaining order on their streets, then the tournement shouldn't have happened. And that goes for any host country; it's not a France thing. I'd also question UEFA in where they've organised certain games; soon we will have Russia, Poland and Ukraine in the same city. Who thought that was a good idea?
Stan Collymore was filming the aftermath of the Ultra charge, and the corner he was on was quiet, with people stood at the side of the street watching events involved. There was no fighting going on in the local vicinity, and yet he ends up having 5/6 tear gas canisters fired at him. Aggressive policing in this instance is welcome, but not fired at people not involved at all, removed from the flashpoint.
I dread to think what the scenes will be like if we have Ultras vs Ultras at some point.
So small pockets of Ultras are littered across a square, and then whistles throughout the small groups signal their intentions, and they all converge and chase the English fans.
The journalist that Stan spoke to was from Channel 4, and said its Marseille and Toulouse Ultras, combined with Russian Ultras who hired cars to get across the boarder and give the authorities the swerve. My immediate concern is, if they can swerve the authorities, who else can?
This is a very different beast to drunken yobs giving it the big 'un in front of the local Wetherspoons (or the French equivalent). You've got organised groups, some with balaclavas, some with GUMSHIELDS, some with MMA-style gloves, some with weapons, etc, hunting down fans irrespective of whether they're up for it or not.
Any and all violence should be condemned, particularly during a time of immense tension thanks to the outstanding security threats, but this isn't like for like violence between these groups.
What's mad, is the response. Now I fully appreciated the pressure the French authorities are under, but if they aren't capable of maintaining order on their streets, then the tournement shouldn't have happened. And that goes for any host country; it's not a France thing. I'd also question UEFA in where they've organised certain games; soon we will have Russia, Poland and Ukraine in the same city. Who thought that was a good idea?
Stan Collymore was filming the aftermath of the Ultra charge, and the corner he was on was quiet, with people stood at the side of the street watching events involved. There was no fighting going on in the local vicinity, and yet he ends up having 5/6 tear gas canisters fired at him. Aggressive policing in this instance is welcome, but not fired at people not involved at all, removed from the flashpoint.
I dread to think what the scenes will be like if we have Ultras vs Ultras at some point.
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
The guardian had an interview with a Russian hooligan who said that they had low numbers there because so many were stopped from leaving the country.
cormack12
Gold Member
Just really sad. Not what you want to see. Hate seeing people trying to get out the way and getting filled in by several guys. Everyone wants to fight when the odds stack heavily in their favour and they're better equipped. I hope everyone gets away with just a black eye in the main but it's obviously not the case.
(Most) Continental police are just not prepared for these types of events. Seen it in Italy, France, Greece, Holland and many other places. Even small innocuous skirmishes between 8-10 people escalate very quickly and the Police lose control going for extreme measures like tear gas way before it's necessary. Just turns the squares into massive warzones and pumps these idiots up more. Russia will be a bloodbath, not only from the fans point of view, but their police will not fuck about either.
UEFA need to look at themselves though. They back themselves into a corner without having a secondary plan time after time. Ruthlessly pushing ahead with decisions that will cause problems with no regard for fans at all. The French Police will already have their hands full after the bombings and terrorist attacks, and will naturally be on edge. Set against the backdrop of cities like Marseille. Not all acts of terrorism are large scale bombings. Creating an atmosphere pervaded by panic and violence, at large social gatherings, is still a valid terrorist act. And yes, the English morons who thought you could chant that shite in Marseille are fucking idiots, little Englander's who go abroad to watch football or stay in British resorts - mostly atypical of English travellers I'm glad to say these days.
(Most) Continental police are just not prepared for these types of events. Seen it in Italy, France, Greece, Holland and many other places. Even small innocuous skirmishes between 8-10 people escalate very quickly and the Police lose control going for extreme measures like tear gas way before it's necessary. Just turns the squares into massive warzones and pumps these idiots up more. Russia will be a bloodbath, not only from the fans point of view, but their police will not fuck about either.
UEFA need to look at themselves though. They back themselves into a corner without having a secondary plan time after time. Ruthlessly pushing ahead with decisions that will cause problems with no regard for fans at all. The French Police will already have their hands full after the bombings and terrorist attacks, and will naturally be on edge. Set against the backdrop of cities like Marseille. Not all acts of terrorism are large scale bombings. Creating an atmosphere pervaded by panic and violence, at large social gatherings, is still a valid terrorist act. And yes, the English morons who thought you could chant that shite in Marseille are fucking idiots, little Englander's who go abroad to watch football or stay in British resorts - mostly atypical of English travellers I'm glad to say these days.
Stereogatari
Banned
Since the French and Russian hooligans are mostly/only chasing to fight English fans, could it not be called a racist attack?
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
No, xenophobic maybe, not racist though.
DukeLongfellow
Member
Nationality ≠ Race. It's as xenophobic and juvenile as you can get though.
Would it hurt UEFA to have some backbone at least this once when it comes to discipline?
That's nonsense, you should stop playing The Division and come back to the real world where these kind of comparisons make absolutely no sense. Get away from your far-right fantasy world where everything that is not in order is a "terrorist" you need to shoot at sight.
Also not all the police intervenes against terrorist attacks, those who try to control crowds like yesterday were not used to "prevent" attacks. Glad to see so many public safety experts on gaf though.
ClosingADoor
Member
Hope they do something. If Russian fans can't behave, just don't allow their public at their games until they get their shit in order.
And wtf at the Russian officials denying anything even happened. Those guys truly don't even give a damn.
DukeLongfellow
Member
Perfect.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
"I don't see any trouble, looks like they were just playing around. By the way, come to Russia in 2018 for the World Cup, it'll be great."
Gotta admit that it's pretty funny.
Well said.
All violence should be condemned, and England fans should not have been provoked/caused trouble in the last few days. But Russian "Ultras" attacking casual fans, kids, (even a guy in a wheelchair got a kicking last night in the stands!) is just sick and goes beyond anything I've ever seen.
What's even more disturbing is that this was all predicted months ago; was threatened by Russian/Marseille Ultras months ago and the FA even attempted to protest the location of the game because of it. No one listened.
Just so I'm sure I'm seeing the funny side:
Normal England fans getting attacked in the stands by hooligans wearing balaclavas, MMA gloves, firing fireworks/flairs is funny?
Or England trying to stand alone against the western advance of Nazi Germany in WWII is funny?
Let's not bring misguided, lazy satire into this mess, eh?
cormack12
Gold Member
Explain the bolded. The one defining act of terrorism is to instill fear and panic, usually as a means to draw attention to which political cause they are aligned with. Whatever vehicle extremists use is largely irrelevant but just as valid.
Second part is irrelevant. I have not mentioned 'preventing attacks'. I don't know what your point is, do you?
If this is the level of your next reply, I'm not going to bother responding.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Pretty nasty videos of the violance on youtube.
Innocent citizens getting attacked. Just watched a middle aged black man getting knocked out. All he did was stand there with his shopping bag
Yikes
I was at the Polish eurocup and had a wonderful time
Sad to see this
Innocent citizens getting attacked. Just watched a middle aged black man getting knocked out. All he did was stand there with his shopping bag
Yikes
I was at the Polish eurocup and had a wonderful time
Sad to see this
lmao, I wouldn't put it past them to think like that.
I also read that with a Russian accent in my head lol.
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
France has been a cauldron of civil unrest and violence for months with a huge rise in gang mentality from the growing numbers of disenfranchised youth, the Russian Ultras have threatening violence since the qualifiers and the French authorities already exhausted from months of conflicts with their own are Politically afraid to implicate or restrain their own people.
Best blame the English fans where highly organised football factory gang violence has been dead for decades.
That'll do.
Best blame the English fans where highly organised football factory gang violence has been dead for decades.
That'll do.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Just spoke to a friend who's over there. Retired BBC (not the broadcasting company) and England hooligan.
1- Yes, a selection of English are quite happy for a scrap with anyone that wants one. As always.
2- Organized Russians are out to seriously hurt people. Starting trouble with anyone in an England shirt. No mutual respect for those that don't want any of it.
3- French police and security hopeless. Attacked the English primarily due to reputation which has just riled people up further. Most of who were just loud and jolly.
4- Loads of people with huge fireworks etc easily getting them in stadiums. Any ISIS loon with a device of some sort would have no issues. Terrible security.
5- Friend with wife and kids. Dangerous to be in the bustle of it all. Laying low and moving on to next match. Never seen anything like it in 25 years.
*views may be biased
1- Yes, a selection of English are quite happy for a scrap with anyone that wants one. As always.
2- Organized Russians are out to seriously hurt people. Starting trouble with anyone in an England shirt. No mutual respect for those that don't want any of it.
3- French police and security hopeless. Attacked the English primarily due to reputation which has just riled people up further. Most of who were just loud and jolly.
4- Loads of people with huge fireworks etc easily getting them in stadiums. Any ISIS loon with a device of some sort would have no issues. Terrible security.
5- Friend with wife and kids. Dangerous to be in the bustle of it all. Laying low and moving on to next match. Never seen anything like it in 25 years.
*views may be biased
Honestly, I think because of the trouble the moronic England fans in Paris caused on Friday the Russians have taken this as an open invitation for a scrap, carte blanche. The British hooligans of the 70's are basically the forefathers of hooliganism. While it's been mostly phased out in the UK, the football fans of Eastern Europe have adopted it into the modern era. These hooligans are highly organised and very aggressive. Simply, even the England fans who travelled to Marseille looking for a scrap didn't know what they'd let themselves in for. It's pretty clear that both sides have hooligans but what's becoming very obvious is that the Russians were far more organised and just plain nasty in their attacks. Whilst I sympathise with anyone hurt in these incidents, I feel more sorry for the normal fans on both sides who have no ill intentions at all and have been hurt or scared by the behaviour of others in and around the Vélodrome. Fucking shambles.
Just EIGHT months ago 130 people were murdered in cold blood on the streets of Paris and to hear security is this lax in places just sounds really fucking naïve. Seems like the authorities are essentially gambling on terrorists not attacking the tournament. I hope they don't end up regretting their poor planning.
This is the most disturbing thing about this, I think.
Just EIGHT months ago 130 people were murdered in cold blood on the streets of Paris and to hear security is this lax in places just sounds really fucking naïve. Seems like the authorities are essentially gambling on terrorists not attacking the tournament. I hope they don't end up regretting their poor planning.
The usual thing to do is demand that known troublemakers surrender their passports and/or report to a police station at times of competitions. That way they would never have been able to fly to Switzerland and then rent cars.
That's the way the UK does it.
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/football-law/football-banning-orders/
Just the fact that people are lamenting the lack of riot police in the stadium separating the fans after the game says it all about the state of modern football culture.
In no other sport do you need fucking police to make sure that fans of rival teams don't start kicking the shit out of each other.
In no other sport do you need fucking police to make sure that fans of rival teams don't start kicking the shit out of each other.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
It's weird, every time England is coming with a lot of hope and a "this time will be different" mentality, and then shit goes even more wrong.
I hope they make it out of group phase so Germany can beat them in penalty shootout in the end again...
I hope they make it out of group phase so Germany can beat them in penalty shootout in the end again...
ClosingADoor
Member
Well, it's not like that every time. Most national matches are pretty friendly. We didn't see anything of the sort at the World Cup for example. Neither at the Euros in Poland last time or in Switzerland if I remember correctly. Normally you don't need this.
Seems those Russians really are just there to cause trouble and Russia itself couldn't give a fuck anymore about its reputation in the world to do anything.
I'm actually less worried about the World Cup in Russia, since then Putin will just crack down before it all starts and people will get in line.
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
It's weird, every time England is coming with a lot of hope and a "this time will be different" mentality, and then shit goes even more wrong.
I hope they make it out of group phase so Germany can beat them in penalty shootout in the end again...
Not really, we're here with a young inexperienced team and playing a new brand of football. The last world cup made it clear this needed to happen.
We did everything right last night but score the 3-4 we should have from the clear scoring opportunities we created. It happens,Russia didn't do much but nicked a goal when they needed to.
Lol guess you've never been to a 49ers game
England played well at the last World Cup too, we just weren't as good as Italy and Uruguay...
Really worried about Bale running at that defence on Thursday.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
It had been planned for months according to several sources. It wasn't in retaliation to or because of anything. Firms in Marseille and Russia had cooperated in advance to attack anyone wearing an England shirt. Heck, even PSG thugs turned up because they found out that Marseille hooligans were on their way to provoke the English.
Yes there are the usual drunken idiots scrapping outside pubs, and yes that has to stop too. But there is a vast difference between drunken morons and organised gangs of "Ultras" assaulting people in the stands/street.
Not that I can remember. There's always little pockets of ultras in general trying to cause trouble but it never in my lifetime escalated to this level.
I must admit to not having followed English football closely for a while, so Dele Alli came us a surprise to me. He's very un-English in his playing style and feels exemplary for a different kind of England. I was positively surprised. If they get a winger with a better cross they might get far in the future.
Great but will it only be a fine?
Dude, I'm an overseas Eagles fan and even I know Philly isn't nothing compared to football fans.
DukeLongfellow
Member
After some fearmongering, this is nice to see (Croatian and Turkish fans):
https://twitter.com/Floaijan/status/741919679736905729
https://twitter.com/Floaijan/status/741919679736905729
Dangerblade
Member
What was the racist behaviour in this instance?
https://mobile.twitter.com/JonasMagnussons/status/741922365521723392/video/1
(Swedish and Irish fans)
| Praxis |
Banned
Russia denying their ultras are using performance enhancing drugs.
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