-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
EXCLUSIVE - PS5 Pro in Development, Could Release Late 2024
- Thread starter Daniel_Mallorca1985
- Start date
- News Rumor Hardware
asdasdasdbb
Member
That should (maybe?) change next year.
SegaSnatcher
Member
I only read one source of that 12.5GB number and it was from DF back in 2020. Not sure if that remains true.
I guess they could just do what they did for PS4 Pro and add some cheaper system ram to give back some ram resources to devs.
SegaSnatcher
Member
You don't need current gen only games for the Pro to be a huge benefit. The standard PS5 is not exactly playing multiplat games at the highest fidelity with 60fps. People still need to make a sacrifice between resolution/graphical fidelity or frame rate.
PeteBull
Member
We already see current gen consoles limitations in numerous games, simply when we get fidelity and performance options , so it clearly means we cant have both atm, we gotta choose lesser evil, pr0 console hopefully makes it so that we get both, fidelity and performance, at the same time.
When u get more current gen only games- they will be more demanding vs crossgen titles so it will all become even more apparent, fidelity wont be 4k 30 or 4k40 but rather 1440p30, and performance wont be 1440p60 but 1080p60.
And im not talking third rate devs/multiplats but toptier devteams from 1st party studios.
SegaSnatcher
Member
Yeah, I don't understand why people are acting like the current PS5 isn't already showing limitations in games.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I think gamers are smart enough to know more powerful systems leads to better looking existing games, boost mode and better looking future games.
Problem is there's lots of console gamers who dont want it because they are jealous they already bought a console and dont want someone else blowing by them. They dont want to be seen with "the crummy system" so they hope everyone is locked into their specs than be open for other gamers having options.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
PS5 Pro is going to be great just for the upgrades to PSVR2 games when it comes to resolution.
PSVR2 has a super high resolution for a headset, but graphically intense games are obviously compromising quite a lot on image quality.
PSVR2 has a super high resolution for a headset, but graphically intense games are obviously compromising quite a lot on image quality.
SegaSnatcher
Member
Honestly, I think this is the main reason why some people are being so overly aggressive about not wanting the PS5 Pro to exist. It's quite sad that people actually think this way.
If you can't handle a more powerful console coming 4 yrs into a generation then how do you handle buying any other electronic, like phones? Most electronics see an improved version much quicker than consoles do.
Pimpbaa
Member
I don’t want PS5 Pro to exist next year because I know the hardware it would have would lead to games that barely look better than what we got now. The visual jump would be far less than the PS4 to PS4 Pro. I want a PS5 Pro with a GPU that doesn’t exist yet, maybe 2025 or 2026. But next year? You’d get current quality modes in games at 60fps at best, and that’s gonna be a hard sell. I want something that does multiple RT effects at the same time (I’m aware you can do that on PC, but I want a console that does that).
3liteDragon
Member
Are we sure he isn't confusing these upcoming models with slim models? A slim model makes more sense than a Pro right now, given people have been asking for the former since the console's launch.
Slim model / PS5 V2 with removable drive is coming this year & the PS5 Pro is coming next year
01011001
Banned
well the rumor says 2024... so it's not "now" it's in maybe 19 months. a Slim this year and a pro next year wouldn't feel out of place imo, especially if RDNA4 has good RT improvements which can be a heavily marketed feature.
they could show off RT updates for older games, and show maybe their already released RT games running at~2160p 60FPS with RT on.
SegaSnatcher
Member
Then don't buy it? Waiting longer than 4 yrs for a midgen refresh is not a good idea. Having fidelity modes run at 60fps and performance modes hit closer to 120fps is more than enough to make the Pro worthwhile.
Pimpbaa
Member
I want a PS5 Pro, just not a half ass one that is barely an upgrade. Maybe RDNA 4 could make it worthwhile, but I dunno if that would be available in time for a late 2024 launch.
PeteBull
Member
Full disclousure i would be one of such ppl, i was salty having my ps4 pleb(base
) when ps4pro launched, so once full specs of ps5 were revealed and well known i knew i gotta wait for pr0 version to not feel salty again, by then i already knew this machine is too weak to do proper 4k60 on the big budget games and i predicted first 2 or even 3 years we wont get too many quality next(current) gen exclusives, so i simply added two to two and decided to wait for inevitable ps5pr0.It has only advantages for me:
1) I spend overall less(-500$ coz of no need to buy ps5 base) on hardware.
2) By the time pr0 launches i will have access to many good looking and performing exclusives unlike at november 2020 so ps5 base launch.
3) No salty feeling of having pleb version of a console.
PeteBull
Member
Even rdna 3 archi on 3nm instead of 5 like the one amd launched end of 2022 will be plenty for us to get over 2x stronger ps5pr0, but ofc rdna4 will have even more improvements on its own, if trend continues like rdna 1->2->3 it will have less penalty when turning on raytracing, coz on consoles rt means huge downgrade in both gpu and cpu avaiable for anything else, it simply takes huge amount of resources, rdna3 is step in the right direction but still about 1 gen behind newest nvidia cards(speaking in pure rt performance).
When it comes to rasterisation - so "normal" non rt performance, they are on pair with rtx 4080 so 20%-25% behind current nvidias flagship aka rtx 4090).
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Specs
NVIDIA AD102, 2520 MHz, 16384 Cores, 512 TMUs, 176 ROPs, 24576 MB GDDR6X, 1313 MHz, 384 bit
Ps5 is around rx 5700xt/ rx 6600xt from amd or gtx 1080ti/rtx 2070super from nvidia so u can see already how much behind it is even now, and it will be another long generation, we dont wanna be stuck with base ps5 for so long, sony knows this too- more techsavy/powerlooking ppl would jump to pc instead, so they will offer us ps5pr0 in not so distant future
Last edited:
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Possible but I would think if it was a slim model it wouldn’t be confusing him. Plus he later said in another tweet after the new model comes out with the detachable disk drive he will have an article on this new console giving details on specs.
Said he wants to wait to prove he is right on the detachable model to give credibility to his pro leak
PeteBull
Member
Definitely above but cant be sure how much above, gotta wait for rdna4 and see if it has sizable jump in rt vs rdna3 here is what DF tested and stated- even currently sold for 800$ rx 7900x is 9% better from rtx 3080.
Tldr rt wise amd is atm 1 gen behind vs nvidia, with rdna3, who know how it looks with rdna4/ 3nm only time will tell
Definitely above but cant be sure how much above, gotta wait for rdna4 and see if it has sizable jump in rt vs rdna3 here is what DF tested and stated- even currently sold for 800$ rx 7900x is 9% better from rtx 3080.
Tldr rt wise amd is atm 1 gen behind vs nvidia, with rdna3, who know how it looks with rdna4/ 3nm only time will tell
This just reminded me of the absolute disappointment that was rdna3....looking at scaling after all the talk about architectural improvements and improved compute capabilities there is barely any improvement in regards to rt efficiency on rdna3. If you scaled rdna2 to the new nm and used the same throughput is there even any improvement at all? All the marketing fud they used and essentially the 7900xt which has more than double the transistors and compute output only delivers a 20-25% increase in rt performance...I mean wtf were they even doing they arent just a gen behind nvidia in terms of rt arch they are close to two gens behind, and this is coming from an amd well wisher.
I truly hope they are saving their resources to deliver a real competitor with rdna4 but again we have been burned so many times now.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It's all in the wrist
Member
I'll reluctantly get it if its the only way to play 60FPS. We're at least one full generation away from meaningful ray tracing implementation, and I'm not resorting to 30 FPS ever again, even if a pro model gets us there.
I just can't see full ray tracing and stable frame rates so soon. Now, 120 FPS at 4K? Is that possible? I'll take that.
I just can't see full ray tracing and stable frame rates so soon. Now, 120 FPS at 4K? Is that possible? I'll take that.
Last edited:
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
If Sony/MS did a midgen refresh that was roughly this, would be good enough for rock solid 4k/60/better fidelity/RT?
More ram and better cpu getting to 20TF. So around double the power.
If not, what kind of specs would be needed to achieve this? If it's not reasonable by 2024, then just wait for 2027 next gen systems.
More ram and better cpu getting to 20TF. So around double the power.
If not, what kind of specs would be needed to achieve this? If it's not reasonable by 2024, then just wait for 2027 next gen systems.
How about this gen's performance mode with boosted RT & ML upscaling?
sendit
Member
Increased ray tracing performance is a given. ML upscaling + ML frame generation is definitely must for a Pro console. Developers could effectively target 30 FPS for graphical output and enable ML frame generation to increase FPS to 60. IMO, this is the best case scenario for consoles.
Last edited:
Imtjnotu
Member
I don't care for RT or ML for up scaling.
RT and it's overdone reflections aren't worth it when nothing ever looks like thdt in the real world.
RT lighting and shadows tho is a different story
Last edited:
PeteBull
Member
Depends on each game, example- u got demons souls, great looking ps5 exclusive/remake, running in 1440p60 or 4k30 modes, with 2x stronger ps5pr0 4k60 for this game is totally possible, if u want ratchet's 4k60fps with rt, that runs 1080-1280p(or something like that, definitely below 1440p) then pushing that to full 4k60 would require over 3x gpu power, so impossible for a while.
You're talking about overdone RT when devs trying to prove that it's there I'm thinking more accurate RT .
You care about the fidelity but don't care about ML Upscaling?
You do realize that ML Upscaling will allow for higher fidelity right?
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Full disclousure i would be one of such ppl, i was salty having my ps4 pleb(base
It has only advantages for me:
1) I spend overall less(-500$ coz of no need to buy ps5 base) on hardware.
2) By the time pr0 launches i will have access to many good looking and performing exclusives unlike at november 2020 so ps5 base launch.
3) No salty feeling of having pleb version of a console.
I admire your patience but man, if you don't also have a good PC to supplement your ps4 pro, you are missing out on a lot of advantages that come with Ps5. Doesn't seem worth it to wait to me when you could've bought a ps5 and just traded it in to Gamestop when the inevitable Pro model comes out. Yeah, you will have "wasted some money" but you will probably be able to get between $250-$300 trade in value. Then it'll cost anywhere from $250-$400 more to upgrade.
This is a no brainer. You're missing out on a few exclusives. You're missing out on extremely fast load times. You're missing out on the best fidelity of cross gen games as well as the better framerates in 95% of games. Also, you're missing out on this for the last two and a half years. Could reasonably be 4 years after ps5 before a Pro model. All because you wanted to save roughly $300 and that negative feeling you felt when the ps4 pro came out.
It's not worth it bro. I guarantee you'll get close to $300 trade in. It's quick and easy way to do it and they tend to give more for old console right when the new one launches. Just get a ps5
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
THIS THIS THIS!!
The ps5/sx have shown their limitations already with every cross gen or "next gen upgrade" that has come out. We havnt even been able to get 1440p/60 with Ultra settings. I don't see how people saying "we havnt gotten any next gen games therefore we don't need pro" can't see this. Now, if you're someone who simply doesn't care about maximum fidelity in cross gen games that's one thing but I'd argue all of us do care, or else we would not be in a thread about Fidelity debating the need for more powerful Pro models!
You are content with how cross gen games perform? That's totally fair but don't say " we havnt seen what the consoles are capable of" because we have 100's of examples of what they're capable of! They're capable of AT BEST 1440p/60 with mix of mostly high and some medium settings ....and with 0 of very minimal RT.
You guys need to be honest with yourselves about why you don't want a Pro model and you also need to realize that the higher fidelity that will come with exclusive next gen games will also come with increasingly worse performance.
SegaSnatcher
Member
What you are asking is for a generational leap, that is not the point of a Pro console. All the Pro needs to do is take current games and run them better.
SegaSnatcher
Member
You don't necessarily need more ram, but improved bandwidth. On 3nm the GPU could easily hit around 2x the compute over the base PS5. They will also likely boost the CPU around 25 - 30% over OG PS5 as well.
So all those games with fidelity/40fps modes could easily hit above the VRR threshold just by brute force alone. Patches will always be optimal to get the most out of a Pro console, but just a hardware boost mode would make quite a difference too.
PeteBull
Member
I do have 8700k, oced(2017 cpu but allows me for solid 60 fps w/o rt even in cp2077, dips to around 50fps with rt, its not light on the cpu, not only gpu) combined with 3080ti, so cant complain altho ofc if some1 plays in 4k there is always that tingling feeling to upgrade, no matter what u got, when new shiny thing launches, i will probably hold out till next gpu gen and upgrade whole machine
Azurro
Banned
How do you know this for sure? There are better nodes out there than the 7nm the PS5 is currently on. If Sony is able to offer a slim at 399 or 349 + whatever the disk drive costs, nothing stops them from offering a Pro at 500 + disk drive. If Sony knew they wouldn't be able to offer at least close to 2x performance plus better RT then they wouldn't do a Pro.
I think the very strong objections come from a much simpler place, like
StreetsofBeige
says, it comes from a place of jealousy, people don't want others to have better hardware than them. I think it's great to have the option for people like us that want better performance without leaving the console ecosystem.
PeteBull
Member
Looks like ff16 , next gen only ps5 exclusive gets 2 modes, graphics and performance, would be nice having console strong enough to get best of both worlds, no such luck yet, hopefully in the future tho.
www.gameskinny.com
U cant say it is like that coz of series s or crossgen, simply ps5 doesnt have enough oomph to have both 4k res and 60fps, cant be helped, we need simply stronger hardware.
Final Fantasy 16 to Have Performance and Frame Rate Modes
Square Enix is giving players choices when it comes to how they want to play Final Fantasy 16.
www.gameskinny.com
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Or that the justifications for adding even more HW to the mix for devs, not helping (they are barely optimising for the HW they have, giving them two more profiles to support on top of that… ) to try to have better HW than others more than admitting the reality of an industry slowing down.How do you know this for sure? There are better nodes out there than the 7nm the PS5 is currently on. If Sony is able to offer a slim at 399 or 349 + whatever the disk drive costs, nothing stops them from offering a Pro at 500 + disk drive. If Sony knew they wouldn't be able to offer at least close to 2x performance plus better RT then they wouldn't do a Pro.
I think the very strong objections come from a much simpler place, like
So not only we already face diminishing returns (higher and higher performance jumps required to delivering noticeable results), manufacturing nodes becoming more and more expensive to design and manufacture new chips on (it also takes longer and longer between meaningful advancements), power consumption being more and more of a problem, but also HW that will barely get pushed beyond what you can easily bruteforce (as far as pro consoles are concerned usually), etc… and the answer is to release more HW more often…
.
I hope we stop before it is too late and we make consoles iterative HW like the yearly mobile phone upgrades… which is just not what the console model is about at all.
Last edited:
Bernardougf
Member
Nice and smart thinking.... and the patience to wait of course... with this age of half assed released games playing everything a few years later for cheap with better graphics/fps and more stable is definitely the smarter approachFull disclousure i would be one of such ppl, i was salty having my ps4 pleb(base
It has only advantages for me:
1) I spend overall less(-500$ coz of no need to buy ps5 base) on hardware.
2) By the time pr0 launches i will have access to many good looking and performing exclusives unlike at november 2020 so ps5 base launch.
3) No salty feeling of having pleb version of a console.
Hope next gen we have two skus from the start.. for me is the ideal if possible and i dont see why wouldn’t be possible ...
Last edited:
We are 'being honest' with ourselves. I don't own a PS5 so I have no such 'buyers remorse' and even if I did, I could easily purchase a pro, just like how I have both PS4 and PS4 pro.
If we want to improve the performance of games so much, how about we ditch the last gen version and focus on optimizing for 'current gen'?
It doesn't make sense to release a more powerful iteration of current gen when we're barely even having games that focus exclusively on it.
Maybe these current machines have such poor performance because so much development resources are being wasted having a version of the game on last gen machines.
fred420170
Member
They really need to shrink the PS5 down and change the way it looks. In its current state it's quite frankly hideous. & looks like something a 10-year-old would design.
PeteBull
Member
We already got example of games that only focus on current gen, including top notch quality games, made by S-tier devs, few examples- demons souls remaster, ratchet, last of us part1,- they all got ps5 only version, no ps4 to slow them down, and yet we can clearly see- the more goodlooking and demanding game is/gonna be, the clearer limitation of ps5 base are shown, another newest example is ff16, crazy good looks, but got 2 modes, performance and fidelity, which cant be helped coz ps5 cant run fidelity mode with performance of 60fps so all of us have to settle for 30, if on the other hand we had access to machine that didnt need to make such compromise... ;D
VolticArchangel
Member
It's always nice to have options, particularly when citing VR as a new platform that you want to push.
IIRC, Sony R&D'd the PS4 Pro for a number of reasons. Pushing PSVR, from stopping their regular customers craving for performance moving to PC, and to push their 4K BRAVIA lineup of TV's. This was 3 years into the console lifecycle of the PS4 back then, in 2016.
We're in the same timeline with the PS5, with the PSVR2 launch, their 8K TV's getting mainstream attention and of course, a stopgap mid-gen refresh for high-end customers to not jump to PC. It makes sense to release this 1 year later than the PS4 Pro's launch window because the PS5 is not hamstrung by shit tier jaguar tablet CPU's, that's powerful enough to service the bare minimum of the player and developer's needs.
IIRC, Sony R&D'd the PS4 Pro for a number of reasons. Pushing PSVR, from stopping their regular customers craving for performance moving to PC, and to push their 4K BRAVIA lineup of TV's. This was 3 years into the console lifecycle of the PS4 back then, in 2016.
We're in the same timeline with the PS5, with the PSVR2 launch, their 8K TV's getting mainstream attention and of course, a stopgap mid-gen refresh for high-end customers to not jump to PC. It makes sense to release this 1 year later than the PS4 Pro's launch window because the PS5 is not hamstrung by shit tier jaguar tablet CPU's, that's powerful enough to service the bare minimum of the player and developer's needs.
I highly doubt the performance vs fidelity mode will disappear with a mid-gen refresh. I just don't see a machine that costs the same or a hundred more than the current machine giving you an extra 30 fps. You will probably get a few more dials to flip on like better raytracing or a slightly higher resolution
Last edited:
Where the hell was you people when I was getting Jr'ed for saying 4k was going to allow this?
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/coul...e-ghetto-into-the-comfy-couch-suburbs.492746/
Imtjnotu
Member
in your own opinion.
real gamers dont care for the size of console or PC. im staring at the screen when i play, not the console
Investor9872
Member
Agreed! I don't care how big or small the console in question is as long as heat management is optimized. That is more important to me than the esthetics.
Last edited:
jshaver488
Member
Another game I’d want a pro for is returnal. Just higher internal resolution and unlock that frame rate
Similar threads
- Locked