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[Murdok]

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Then what's the point?

Better graphics and pushing the envelope further. Why would you care if you're not going to buy and it's the devs choice to push high fidelity 30fps stable experiences? And where have you been the last 15 years with some of the solid 30fps 1st party Sony titles? I have a 4090, I like options. I've played slideshow 12-30 fps PS1 games and games at 4k144 locked. I'm a big boy.

 

[Filben]

Yes. Why shouldn't be a 30fps mode? This is long established as acceptable by developers so they will push the graphics for a 30fps target. Why would they stop now pushing the visuals? If they wanted to do so they could have already with the base PS5 and dial back the graphics until they reach 60fps.

 

[nikolino840]

I will say it for the 10 millionth time. Sixty and thirty fps are choices. They are choices that come with trade-offs. A game running at 30fps will always, always, always be able to present better graphics than one running at 60fps. It's objective reality.

Isn't in the video with cerny "there's no need to chose quality/fidelity?
For DF hogwarts lecacy was a 30fps

 

[Neo_game]

Most games are gpu limited so 30fps games should be able to do 40fps on the Pro in 120Hz mode.

 

[hemo memo]

Yes. Why shouldn't be a 30fps mode? This is long established as acceptable by developers so they will push the graphics for a 30fps target. Why would they stop now pushing the visuals? If they wanted to do so they could have already with the base PS5 and dial back the graphics until they reach 60fps.

Again, Cerny pointed out that players shouldn’t have to “choose” between performance or fidelity with the Pro. So with the Pro enhanced titles at 30FPS, what’s the fucking point? Yes, it’s up to the developer, and Cerny knows that, so why the ridiculous statement that the Pro would somehow end that dilemma of choice for players?

 

[simpatico]

CERNY CALLS KILLZONE FRANCHISE "CHOPPY"

Why did Cerny lie to us last gen bro's? He could have told us he was selling choppy games back then, but somehow he omitted it. I don't think it was by accident. If gaming journalists were worth anything, they'd be beating down his door to get an answer to this.

 

[SantaBanana]

Would love to have the stats on the percentage of players are playing quality vs performance. I think 60fps is just an online gaming community thing, most people dont care at all.

 

[PeteBull]

Would love to have the stats on the percentage of players are playing quality vs performance. I think 60fps is just an online gaming community thing, most people dont care at all.

cerny mentioned it yesterday in ps5pr0 reveal, 75% of players chose performance mode

 

[simpatico]

Would love to have the stats on the percentage of players are playing quality vs performance. I think 60fps is just an online gaming community thing, most people dont care at all.

Much like inverting the Y axis, maybe it depends when you started gaming. If someone picked up the hobby in the PS360 gen, their tolerance for poor frame rates is probably gargantuan.

 

[R6Rider]

Again, Cerny pointed out that players shouldn’t have to “choose” between performance or fidelity with the Pro. So with the Pro enhanced titles at 30FPS, what’s the fucking point? Yes, it’s up to the developer, and Cerny knows that, so why the ridiculous statement that the Pro would somehow end that dilemma of choice for players?

He said 75% of the players choose Performance mode and mentioned that the PS5 Pro would offer players a way where they wouldn't have to choose between performance and quality. Which means the Performance modes are going to get a visual in the majority of cases, not the other way around.

Of course there's also the rare Balanced modes and the fact that some games have unlocked frame rates and others don't.

 

[SantaBanana]

Much like inverting the Y axis, maybe it depends when you started gaming. If someone picked up the hobby in the PS360 gen, their tolerance for poor frame rates is probably gargantuan.

How about us dinosaurs who picked it up with the atari 2600

 

[SyedDanishAnwar]

How about us dinosaurs who picked it up with the atari 2600

We are used to simple games such as these (I played them in 89-91). For us old timers, even 20 fps is a wonder to watch.

 

[Dorfdad]

Did The Verge make articles about X1X reminding people the vast majority of games would still be 30fps? Do they realize PS5 Pro will actually double the framerate in most cases for gamers?

Of course there will find and highlight that one game out of 1000 that will play at only 30fps (but will they actually? On Xbox yes, but on Playstation?).

Those people are not journalists, they are propagandists and should be considered as Microsoft employees.

Wet very few journalists in any field anymore. Everyone news, political, gaming, sports, etc sip at the teet of “lobbiest” they are all feed by the industry they cover to promote agendas from money so that’s a moot point. What he says is true even with new systems without definitive guidelines developers can just up the graphics now and stay at 30 fps, which seems disingenuous to the point t of the pro. I’m not sure how many developers are going to invest in redesigning game engines and older games unless the fix is super easy.

I feel this is just. Paid demo / learning experience for ps6 in the next 3 years

 

[lh032]

i mean.....depends on the devs right? Sony cant make this decision.

Nonetheless, i think devs are going to implement performance mode moving forward because more and more people are using it.

 

[mayham2199]

i mean.....depends on the devs right? Sony cant make this decision.

Nonetheless, i think devs are going to implement performance mode moving forward because more and more people are using it.

It already seems rare not to have performance modes these days.

 

[Bonfires Down]

If there’s no performance mode on base PS5 then the game is likely CPU limited and won’t be 60 fps on the Pro either. So, Gotham Knights, Dragon’s Dogma, Kingdom Come 2, Avowed. And it will get more rather than less common in the future.

 

[Ashamam]

Tom Warren should have mentioned 'and likely these artistic choices will come from XGS'.

 

[kevboard]

We are used to simple games such as these (I played them in 89-91). For us old timers, even 20 fps is a wonder to watch.

yeah... but all these games are 60fps

 

[M1chl]

This is more of a Xbox One & Xbox One X situation, same stupid CPU, even tho GPU is much better. And there was a ton of 4K X enhanced games at 30FPS. Because that Jag could do much more. Same situation now with cut down Zen2...

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I will say it for the 10 millionth time. Sixty and thirty fps are choices. They are choices that come with trade-offs. A game running at 30fps will always, always, always be able to present better graphics than one running at 60fps. It's objective reality.

You can say it 10 million more times, it will still get glossed over because people like faux outrage more.

 

[nikolino840]

You can say it 10 million more times, it will still get glossed over because people like faux outrage more.

And again mark cerny says "removing that decision" So this mean ps5 pro enhanced games doesn't have a selector performance/quality

 

[rkofan87]

Whoever buys this is just stupid

have fun on your going to out dated in 2 years 3000$ pc

 

[MarkMe2525]

I feel like this was self evident.

have fun on your going to out dated in 2 years 3000$ pc

Not how that works in 2024. Maybe in 1998.

 

[Danjin44]

I’m guessing it wont able to run Monster Hunter Wilds on 60 FPS like PS4pro couldn’t for Monster Hunter World.

These so called “Pro” version absolutely waste of money.

 

[rkofan87]

dam the pc master race in full force i have over 1000 games on my account and want them to run better. even if just a bit better.

 

[MarkMe2525]

This is more of a Xbox One & Xbox One X situation, same stupid CPU, even tho GPU is much better. And there was a ton of 4K X enhanced games at 30FPS. Because that Jag could do much more. Same situation now with cut down Zen2...

The 1X increased the ram by 50% and switched from GDDR3 to GDDR5, IIRC. They also gave the 1X CPU a 31% faster clock. I thought Sony would go beyond just giving the ram a clock speed boost, but maybe they don't need to when rendering internally at lower resolutions.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I reported earlier (and was demoted to junior status) and accurately that there would be a campaign against the PS5 Pro by the media and by many gamers.

Of course, there will still be 30 fps. There's no way Sony can force a developer to select 60 fps and they can still make use of the PS5 Pro in other ways.

The question is how many developers are going to do that? I guess you could see some look to make a super fidelity mode but Cerny already said 75% of gamers play in performance mode. The data is pretty clear on that and whether there is value in pushing modes that are 30 fps.

Then there may be games that are CPU locked to 30 and the PS5 Pro won't resolve that, but again few and far between.

Tom Warren wants PS5 Pro to fail because of what it means for Microsoft in the gaming market, but nothing anyone writes is going to make a real impact once the games start coming out.

LOL... someone and I'm not going to say who has a REAL bug up their butt over the PS5 Pro...

 

[Kacho]

Demoted Member® Pro™

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Demoted Member® Pro™

Underrated movie. Holds up well.

Imagine though why anyone would be so up in arms over new hardware. What's the nexus of that?

 

[adamsapple]

I'm sorry for laughing, Mibu no ookami .

 

[ShakenG]

Thought this was obvious.

 

[Kacho]

Underrated movie. Holds up well.

Imagine though why anyone would be so up in arms over new hardware. What's the nexus of that?

A lot of people just aren’t satisfied with the value proposition here. There’s nothing complicated about it. This isn’t a conspiracy against Sony.

 

[CLW]

 

[Mibu no ookami]

A lot of people just aren’t satisfied with the value proposition here. There’s nothing complicated about it. This isn’t a conspiracy against Sony.

Isn't that a straw man? Who said it was a conspiracy.

If you don't think the value proposition is there, that's 100% valid argument, but at what point does it become a crusade? And at what point does the criticism not stack up to the facts? At the end of the day, just don't buy something right?

Examples:

I was super psyched to buy what was rumored as a Switch Pro, but when it was announced as a Switch OLED, I said no thanks. I don't see the value. I didn't want a system that was priced what it was but couldn't output 4K.

In 2019, I started buying apple devices after being on android for nearly 10 years. It started with an Apple TV and then an iPhone, then a MacBook, and then Airpods Pro, and an Apple watch. Because of the accumulation of Apple products I REALLY REALLY wanted AirPods Max, but the current model is old, lightning cable connection, and doesn't have lossless audio. I was sure the new one would have usb-c and lossless as well as the new apple chip... it only had USB-C... after YEARS of waiting... I'm simply not going to buy it.

For neither product did I go on a crusade against them, I just won't buy them and if the topic comes up, I'll explain why. I'm not raging against Apple or Nintendo.

The most interesting thing with the criticism of the PS5 Pro, is I don't really see anyone criticizing the contents of the device, generally just the price. So is it just a matter of not being able to afford it on day 1? Cause there's validity there too, but again, I just don't understand the crusade element, and that's why I describe it as a campaign. Not a conspiracy, there's no secret cabal here.

More importantly however, I'm troubled by the negative tone in gaming, where we rush to criticize everything, even things we're not going to buy and we go over and over and over about it. Why aren't we more focused on the things we're excited about.

I'm personally super excited about the PS5 Pro, it's great for me. It's exactly what I wanted. I probably would have bought it for more than 700 dollars. I'd also buy games I love for more than 70 bucks and if a game was something I wasn't interested I wouldn't buy it for 5 dollars and I would let it pass by without much thought or comment (maybe putting my two cents in there)

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Dude is such an idiot

The guy is a total idiot lol

 

[sachos]

Of course there will be, its the choice of the devs what to target. The promise here is that the PS5 Fidelity modes should be able to run at 60 on the Pro with maybe even better quality thanks to PSSR (the only problem here is if the original PS5 version is CPU limited and not GPU limited).
In fact i hope they do not ditch Quality 30FPS modes completly, i still want to see the system pushed to the limit, make it a "Super Quality" mode or something.

 

[nick776]

I'm probably in the minority, but I would LOVE to see games on the PS5 Pro push the resolution and effects to the furthest extent possible at 30FPS. Give us TWO Pro Graphics Modes--performance and resolution (but both custom tailored to the power of the PS5 Pro). I was happy to see that GT7 has an 8K mode but I'd much rather opt for a 30 FPS 4k mode thought with ray tracing and other effects turned up to the max though. I play on a G3 OLED and I cannot recall a single game where I selected performance mode over resolution mode.

 

[Kacho]

Isn't that a straw man? Who said it was a conspiracy.

You got juniored because you created a thread titled “The campaign against the PS5 Pro”. You’re in deep, brother.

I'm personally super excited about the PS5 Pro

Cool man, enjoy. Just remember you’re not obligated to control the online discourse to do that.

 

[DryvBy]

The guy is a total idiot lol

I deleted a post to him because I didn't know how many Xbots were willing to fight over me calling out a thing he said incorrectly. Dog piled quickly.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You got juniored because you created a thread titled “The campaign against the PS5 Pro”. You’re in deep, brother.

That's the reality and you can think that is completely reasonable.

Cool man, enjoy. Just remember you’re not obligated to control the online discourse to do that.

Control the online discourse? How so? By pointing out ahead of time that sources like Tom Warren and DF were going to predictably rail against the product?

I think there is a valid conversation to have about value, but I don't think that's what happening right now and that is why I created the topic.

Do you personally believe that when the PS5 Pro launches on November 7th for 700 dollars, that there is any gaming machine on the market or configuration of parts for the price that is going to outperform it? I think that's where an HONEST discussion would start, but again that's not the discussion we're having on the interwebs right now.

DF is salty that they weren't invited to test out the PS5 Pro and instead some grandpa from CNET who has never touched a computer before was selected. I think going with CNET was laughable, but I don't think DF deserved that either and they should understand why. That's not a conspiracy either, but it does highlight the problems with manufacturers and influencers and the kind of parasitic relationship they have with each other. A legitimate tech site should have got the PS5 Pro, but Sony wanted a softball and haven't even released a spec sheet even though it leaked months ago.

Does Tom Warren who everyone knows is Microsoft aligned calling out the PS5 Pro for not guaranteeing 60 fps for every game suggest a conspiracy or do we just know that he is biased and trying to create a narrative?

Like I think I was proven right with the thread I created. Some people have valid criticism of the PS5 Pro or are skeptical of it, but there are absolutely people with an agenda hoping they can derail sales. If saying that gets me demoted and gets me this tag, okay... I guess... But I'm not sure how that was out of pocket or inaccurate.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm probably in the minority, but I would LOVE to see games on the PS5 Pro push the resolution and effects to the furthest extent possible at 30FPS. Give us TWO Pro Graphics Modes--performance and resolution (but both custom tailored to the power of the PS5 Pro). I was happy to see that GT7 has an 8K mode but I'd much rather opt for a 30 FPS 4k mode thought with ray tracing and other effects turned up to the max though. I play on a G3 OLED and I cannot recall a single game where I selected performance mode over resolution mode.

It's hard to say right? Cerny said 75% of PS5 owners are in performance mode.

What we don't know is what percentage of PS5 owners want a PS5 Pro and whether they are more so in the 75% group or the 25% group or how much that number is skewed by default settings.

I think what we'll eventually see is that games that are CPU constrained, they might look to push up the visuals while staying at 30 fps. Which I think again puts into question the motives of Tom Warren. At the end of the day it's about whatever the vision of the developers are and how the market reacts to that.

 

[DavJay]

My 1080ti play current games in 4k at 30fps. That’s over 7 years old….

 

[Kerotan]

Once it's not GTA VI or DS2

 

[Celcius]

My 1080ti play current games in 4k at 30fps. That’s over 7 years old….

How does your 1080ti hold up with ray tracing though?
The 1080ti also can't use DLSS unfortunately

 

[peish]

There will still be 30fps 5090 enhanced games.

theverge has been woke crap, stupid headlines stupid content

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Sources familiar with Sony’s plans tell The Verge that Sony is asking developers to create a new PS5 Pro-exclusive graphics mode in games that combines Sony’s new PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution (PSSR) upscaling to 4K resolution with a 60fps frame rate and ray-tracing effects. Insider Gaming first reported on some of these Enhanced PS5 Pro game details last month.

While Sony wants this new mode in games, the PS5 Pro “Enhanced” label will still be available for a variety of other scenarios that include 30fps games. Developers have the option of increasing the target resolution for PS5 Pro games that run at a fixed resolution on PS5 or even increasing the target maximum resolution for games that run at a variable resolution on PS5.

That could mean we see PS5 Pro Enhanced games that run at between 1080p and 1440p resolution at 30fps on the base PS5 and run between 1280p and 2160p on the PS5 Pro at the same frame rate. A fixed resolution increase from 1440p to 2160p would also qualify as a PS5 Pro Enhanced game. Developers could also choose to enable ray-tracing effects and get the PS5 Pro Enhanced label without improving resolution or frame rates. If a developer wants to target 60fps instead of 30fps with the same resolution, this may also qualify as a PS5 Pro Enhanced game.

And we must believe this very same man who kept parroting that Xbox Series S is more powerful than base PS5. Yeah this guy is just twisting words and downright FUD master specialist.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

My 1080ti play current games in 4k at 30fps. That’s over 7 years old….

At what settings? Obviously you're not doing any kind of raytracing

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

My 1080ti play current games in 4k at 30fps. That’s over 7 years old….

As a owner of a 1080ti that's a lie.

 

[existensmaximum]

There are lots of 30 fps games that play great, so cool.