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[Loxus]

Wow. Although this is just a synthetic benchmark. AMD RT is so pathetic. Their most powerful card barely matching 3080. Even Intel A770 has the fastest RDNA2 beat.

Like I said earlier. Hopefully RDNA 4 implements the RT Traversal Engine for their patent.

Seem like Nvidia long had an Traversal Engine, which is why Nvidia always had this performance gap.

 

[SolidQ]

Their most powerful card barely matching 3080

7900 = 3090ti

 

[Moridianae]

I'm down for a PS5 Pro.

I concur with some sentiment here that it feels weird with this generation slowly taking off, but its really about time for one.

A lot of that was snarled up by COVID and the myriad of problems it caused. It's hard to believe we're in 2023 and it feels like these consoles just launched. Those years just flew by.

I'm not sure how much more power the PS5 Pro could cram under the hood, as I'm not well versed in how far the technology has come since these current systems' specifications for *their* price point were finalized.

RT is nice, but I'd really like to see some solid 60FPS all the time with reasonably high res.

 

[SlimySnake]

Seems lame that they don't do it sooner though, if true. I just don't see a need to upgrade my Xbox when next gen will literally be 2 years later.

The One X was highly underutilized but the PS4 Pro seemed to get some decent traction. Sony released it at the right time.

I remember playing FF16, BF1, Titanfall 2, infinity Warfare, RE7 and so many amazing games between 2016 and 2017 on my Pro when 90% of gaf was shitting on this thing as anti-consumer or some bullshit. I honestly couldnt believe MS punted a whole year while their fans played most of these games in 720-900p since they couldnt even do 1080p like most PS4 games.

But once the thing came out, it was way better designed than Cerny's Pro console. It was not bottlenecked by memory or memory bandwidth and ended up doing native 4k in A LOT of games. DMC, RDR2, Shadow of Tomb Raider, it was a great last 3 years of a gen, so I was like ok, I can forgive them for punting that year.

However, with Sony now already a year late, MS cannot afford to be a year behind. That means a 2025 release and with the gen likely ending in 2027, it would give that console 2 years before its made outdated. At least, the X1X had a solid 3 years.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I remember playing FF16, BF1, Titanfall 2, infinity Warfare, RE7 and so many amazing games between 2016 and 2017 on my Pro when 90% of gaf was shitting on this thing as anti-consumer or some bullshit. I honestly couldnt believe MS punted a whole year while their fans played most of these games in 720-900p since they couldnt even do 1080p like most PS4 games.

But once the thing came out, it was way better designed than Cerny's Pro console. It was not bottlenecked by memory or memory bandwidth and ended up doing native 4k in A LOT of games. DMC, RDR2, Shadow of Tomb Raider, it was a great last 3 years of a gen, so I was like ok, I can forgive them for punting that year.

However, with Sony now already a year late, MS cannot afford to be a year behind. That means a 2025 release and with the gen likely ending in 2027, it would give that console 2 years before its made outdated. At least, the X1X had a solid 3 years.

If we assume that this generation will span 2020 - 2028, then 2024 is the perfect release cadence (exactly halfway through the generation).

PS4 Pro was less capable than X1X clearly, but I think X1X could have released in 2016 with the same technology. Sony just decided they wanted to target 399 for the PS4 pro. That was the difference. I think this time Sony may see things differently. PS5 will still be a pretty expensive console in 2024. I doubt we'll get a price drop to $299 anytime soon, but maybe $349. PS5 continues to sell extremely well, so PS5 Pro needs to be a strong differentiator for the hardcore. It will be OK to go expensive @ $599. The PS5 doesn't live or die by the PS5 Pro, but their hardest core audience will appreciate it and it will be a competitive option to high end PC gaming at a much cheaper price. To get a decent leap in technology, they will need to go pretty expensive with it as well.

Essentially these mid gen consoles need to come out at the right cadence. X1X was too late. By the time it came out, next gen was being discussed and it was sort of forgotten about, especially since their first party was somewhat absent to make good use of it other than a select few titles.

And if Sony decides to price it at $599, then I doubt there will be an X1X vs PS4 Pro leap if MS decide to wait. 1 year doesn't really matter a whole lot, it depends on when new nodes are readily available, which they won't be a year later. So it really depends on how much you spend at the right time.

 

[SlimySnake]

If we assume that this generation will span 2020 - 2028, then 2024 is the perfect release cadence (exactly halfway through the generation).

PS4 Pro was less capable than X1X clearly, but I think X1X could have released in 2016 with the same technology. Sony just decided they wanted to target 399 for the PS4 pro. That was the difference. I think this time Sony may see things differently. PS5 will still be a pretty expensive console in 2024. I doubt we'll get a price drop to $299 anytime soon, but maybe $349. PS5 continues to sell extremely well, so PS5 Pro needs to be a strong differentiator for the hardcore. It will be OK to go expensive @ $599. The PS5 doesn't live or die by the PS5 Pro, but their hardest core audience will appreciate it and it will be a competitive option to high end PC gaming at a much cheaper price. To get a decent leap in technology, they will need to go pretty expensive with it as well.

Essentially these mid gen consoles need to come out at the right cadence. X1X was too late. By the time it came out, next gen was being discussed and it was sort of forgotten about, especially since their first party was somewhat absent to make good use of it other than a select few titles.

And if Sony decides to price it at $599, then I doubt there will be an X1X vs PS4 Pro leap if MS decide to wait. 1 year doesn't really matter a whole lot, it depends on when new nodes are readily available, which they won't be a year later. So it really depends on how much you spend at the right time.

For whatever reason, MS and Sony cant get the same prices from their vendors or have difficulty constructing their consoles. Sony had a $450 BOM which essentially broke even even with the retailer cut within the first six months while MS was reporting they were still losing $200 per console last year. part of it is the cheaper cooling solution, part of it is the dual motherboard design, part of it is the bigger chip, but $200 while the other is breaking even? Is Microsoft money laundering their xbox profits or something lol

But I think MS simply cant afford to go out there and even target a $599 pro console. they just raised the price to $549 for their 12 tflops console. Thats probably why they arent even considering it right now. If Sony's BOM for the Pro is $549 then MS is likely looking at a BOM of $749 for the same console. Waiting a year allows them to get this for cheaper prices and lets them have bragging rights for the last 2-3 years of the gen.

 

[Rea]

Pro consoles are waste of time, alot of enthusiasts gamers are already switching to PC since PS exclusives are coming to PC anyway. The PS4 pro make sense because 4k TVs market was expanding and Sony wanted to push the sales of their 4k tvs with PS4 pro for gamers. That's the main reason according to Cerny anyway.

Timestamped.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

For whatever reason, MS and Sony cant get the same prices from their vendors or have difficulty constructing their consoles. Sony had a $450 BOM which essentially broke even even with the retailer cut within the first six months while MS was reporting they were still losing $200 per console last year. part of it is the cheaper cooling solution, part of it is the dual motherboard design, part of it is the bigger chip, but $200 while the other is breaking even? Is Microsoft money laundering their xbox profits or something lol

But I think MS simply cant afford to go out there and even target a $599 pro console. they just raised the price to $549 for their 12 tflops console. Thats probably why they arent even considering it right now. If Sony's BOM for the Pro is $549 then MS is likely looking at a BOM of $749 for the same console. Waiting a year allows them to get this for cheaper prices and lets them have bragging rights for the last 2-3 years of the gen.

Yeah this may be a good point and why Sony has a huge advantage with a potential PS5 Pro.

I just think Sony has better manufacturing design to cost expertise than Microsoft. Microsoft makes good console designs, but they use premium design choices to get there, which will increase the cost dramatically. Sony has MUCH cheaper costs because of a few reasons:

1) Engineering talent is laser focused on cost, even if it means that they need to make a console that looks unusual. Willing to sacrifice aesthetics/looks for practicality and cost.
2) Sony is a manufacturer, so they do not need to outsource nearly as much assembly.
3) Sony is also a component manufacturer, so they can get cheaper prices on supplies
4) Because Sony sells more volume, they can get economies of scale.
5) Sony chose lower CU for higher clocks, resulting in a smaller chip and more uniform supply chain (no Series S)

This really adds up to a significant cost reduction, which is why I'm not surprised that Xbox is considerably more expensive.

 

[onQ123]

For whatever reason, MS and Sony cant get the same prices from their vendors or have difficulty constructing their consoles. Sony had a $450 BOM which essentially broke even even with the retailer cut within the first six months while MS was reporting they were still losing $200 per console last year. part of it is the cheaper cooling solution, part of it is the dual motherboard design, part of it is the bigger chip, but $200 while the other is breaking even? Is Microsoft money laundering their xbox profits or something lol

But I think MS simply cant afford to go out there and even target a $599 pro console. they just raised the price to $549 for their 12 tflops console. Thats probably why they arent even considering it right now. If Sony's BOM for the Pro is $549 then MS is likely looking at a BOM of $749 for the same console. Waiting a year allows them to get this for cheaper prices and lets them have bragging rights for the last 2-3 years of the gen.

On board storage vs NVMe plus smaller GPU & selling at a higher volume with one console.

 

[Historia]

For whatever reason, MS and Sony cant get the same prices from their vendors or have difficulty constructing their consoles. Sony had a $450 BOM which essentially broke even even with the retailer cut within the first six months while MS was reporting they were still losing $200 per console last year. part of it is the cheaper cooling solution, part of it is the dual motherboard design, part of it is the bigger chip, but $200 while the other is breaking even? Is Microsoft money laundering their xbox profits or something lol

But I think MS simply cant afford to go out there and even target a $599 pro console. they just raised the price to $549 for their 12 tflops console. Thats probably why they arent even considering it right now. If Sony's BOM for the Pro is $549 then MS is likely looking at a BOM of $749 for the same console. Waiting a year allows them to get this for cheaper prices and lets them have bragging rights for the last 2-3 years of the gen.

Sony is a electronic manufacturer, M$ is software distributor. Most of their product lineup usually spend a lot their budgets on features they can boast about like Surface shit.

 

[DeepEnigma]

look....if there is a pro and is announced soony....they better have actual mind raping "Next-Gen" new IP games. this gen has been so disappointing because of that.

Just buy 3tf party publishers

Some seem content with that.

 

[IAmRei]

Although availability was limited but PS5 will be 4yrs old in November 2024

IMO it is perfect time provided the Pro is 2-2.5x faster than PS5. PS6 in 2027 or 2028 according to Microsoft ?

maybe 2025 or 2026 would be okay, but as long as i know and see, there is still no need to upgrade, but maybe it just me.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

If Pro consoles are truly coming (and I'm hoping the rumors are bullshit and they're not), then I just think they're entirely pointless.

They'll only serve to punish early adopters of base hardware (when devs focus on the Pro versions and port down to the base console with very little attention paid to optimization----we saw this last gen), as well as being mostly meaningless given how barely any games are properly even exploiting the base hardware thus far.

Great, Sony/MS! Give devs even more hardware targets to have to develop for, making games even more of a mess on launch (and especially the base consoles). That's what we really want.

I just don't understand the justification for them. The "gamers migrating to PC" spiel is clearly bullshit. The same company, Sony, is releasing their big first-party games on PC because "PC doesn't compete with their console business". So which one is it? Either it does compete with the console or it doesn't. In reality, this is a cognitive dissonance that I don't think the execs at Playstation harbor at all.

 

[nordique]

If we assume that this generation will span 2020 - 2028, then 2024 is the perfect release cadence (exactly halfway through the generation).

PS4 Pro was less capable than X1X clearly, but I think X1X could have released in 2016 with the same technology. Sony just decided they wanted to target 399 for the PS4 pro. That was the difference. I think this time Sony may see things differently. PS5 will still be a pretty expensive console in 2024. I doubt we'll get a price drop to $299 anytime soon, but maybe $349. PS5 continues to sell extremely well, so PS5 Pro needs to be a strong differentiator for the hardcore. It will be OK to go expensive @ $599. The PS5 doesn't live or die by the PS5 Pro, but their hardest core audience will appreciate it and it will be a competitive option to high end PC gaming at a much cheaper price. To get a decent leap in technology, they will need to go pretty expensive with it as well.

Essentially these mid gen consoles need to come out at the right cadence. X1X was too late. By the time it came out, next gen was being discussed and it was sort of forgotten about, especially since their first party was somewhat absent to make good use of it other than a select few titles.

And if Sony decides to price it at $599, then I doubt there will be an X1X vs PS4 Pro leap if MS decide to wait. 1 year doesn't really matter a whole lot, it depends on when new nodes are readily available, which they won't be a year later. So it really depends on how much you spend at the right time.

Really great points in this post

 

[//DEVIL//]

7900 = 3090ti

Lmao not even close and the video is a joke .

 

[Doczu]

I just don't understand the justification for them. The "gamers migrating to PC" spiel is clearly bullshit. The same company, Sony, is releasing their big first-party games on PC because "PC doesn't compete with their console business". So which one is it? Either it does compete with the console or it doesn't. In reality, this is a cognitive dissonance that I don't think the execs at Playstation harbor at all.

How many PS exclusive games release day 1 on PC? Each game gets released long after the biggest sales window expires on the console. It's not the same.

I too wasn't too fond of the idea of losing sales, but it makes perfect sence. Game sales, dlc, cosmetics, ps+ subscriptions. That ain't a penny they aren't getting

 

[ChiefDada]

What is the point of PS5 Pro's bombastic specs upgrade when devs has to account for Xbox's retarded little brother.

PS 1st party and second party exclusives don't care about the Xbox Seriously Struggling.

Pro consoles are waste of time, alot of enthusiasts gamers are already switching to PC since PS exclusives are coming to PC anyway. The PS4 pro make sense because 4k TVs market was expanding and Sony wanted to push the sales of their 4k tvs with PS4 pro for gamers. That's the main reason according to Cerny anyway.

Timestamped.

PS5 Pro makes 100x more sense than PS4 Pro ever did. When games are designed with RT lighting from the start, it will be much easier to promote from a visual perspective with comparisons. Also, Cerny making a big deal about ray tracing ushering in the third era of gaming after 2D and 3D supports PS5 Pro being an RT focused console.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I expect a 72 CU 20TF PS5 Pro with slightly higher memory bandwitch and improved RDNA4 capabilities

Guessing the price will be $599, and I will be there day 1 for it.

Would be weird if Xbox misses the party on this like they claim.

Seems lame that they don't do it sooner though, if true. I just don't see a need to upgrade my Xbox when next gen will literally be 2 years later.

The One X was highly underutilized but the PS4 Pro seemed to get some decent traction. Sony released it at the right time.

Agree with both here, or ms will just go next gen early and really trump the ps5/pro as all these consoles from now on will just be incremental step ups.

The ps6 will be 72 cu clocked higher and better RT and maybe hit something like 28 to 32 tf.

If my can get a console out 12 to 18 months after the ps5 Pro that's 26 tf vs 20 (hypertherically) then I think that's what they will go for.

Its going to be interesting to see what happens.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Agree with both here, or ms will just go next gen early and really trump the ps5/pro as all these consoles from now on will just be incremental step ups.

The ps6 will be 72 cu clocked higher and better RT and maybe hit something like 28 to 32 tf.

If my can get a console out 12 to 18 months after the ps5 Pro that's 26 tf vs 20 (hypertherically) then I think that's what they will go for.

Its going to be interesting to see what happens.

Would probably need to be 2-3 years after ps5 pro

But the timing of these consoles is predictable; 1) when is the next big node shrink that amd can support 2) when can they produce enough chips to support launch

Both MS and Sony know when these can occur, that’s why both ps4/xb1 and ps5/XSX launched at the exact same time

You cannot exactly “go one year early” for next gen unless your competitor is intentionally late or using a much older process which would be unbelievably dumb

 

[DenchDeckard]

I'd love for someone to interview Sony when they announce it and really get to the bottom of why they felt they needed it this time.

We've not really had next gen games, was it feedback from developers or their own internal testing with next gen engines like unreal 5 where they felt that the Pro was a necessity this early in next gen software cycle.

 

[farmerboy]

I'd love for someone to interview Sony when they announce it and really get to the bottom of why they felt they needed it this time.

We've not really had next gen games, was it feedback from developers or their own internal testing with next gen engines like unreal 5 where they felt that the Pro was a necessity this early in next gen software cycle.

If I had to really guess, its so they have a new console on the market that they can charge a premium for. By year 4 or 5, the ps5 may be in discount territory.

 

[vivftp]

I'd love for someone to interview Sony when they announce it and really get to the bottom of why they felt they needed it this time.

We've not really had next gen games, was it feedback from developers or their own internal testing with next gen engines like unreal 5 where they felt that the Pro was a necessity this early in next gen software cycle.

Early? It's not early. The PS5 Pro would come 1 year later in this console cycle compared to the PS4 Pro did last gen. Anyways, the process for creating and launching the Pro would have begun many years ago, maybe before the gen even started. It was an inevitability, and games being delayed due to the pandemic won't prevent it from happening.

Try to think about it on a broader level - the Pro would come regardless of how much or how little software was released prior to its arrival. As for this continued narrative that we haven't had any "next gen games", yeah that's just nonsense. We have had them, and will have plenty more before the Pro ever shows up. Lists were posted on the previous page for reference.

 

[UnNamed]

When games are designed with RT lighting from the start

When games are designed with RT lighting from the start?
I only know Cyberpunk Overdrive, Quake and Metro maybe.
Other games use mixed lighting techniques.

 

[DenchDeckard]

If I had to really guess, its so they have a new console on the market that they can charge a premium for. By year 4 or 5, the ps5 may be in discount territory.

Not a bad call at all. Easiest driver to get current owners to buy new hardware and move the old console to another room or pass it on to another user. They must have the metrics to show it works.

Early? It's not early. The PS5 Pro would come 1 year later in this console cycle compared to the PS4 Pro did last gen. Anyways, the process for creating and launching the Pro would have begun many years ago, maybe before the gen even started. It was an inevitability, and games being delayed due to the pandemic won't prevent it from happening.

Try to think about it on a broader level - the Pro would come regardless of how much or how little software was released prior to its arrival. As for this continued narrative that we haven't had any "next gen games", yeah that's just nonsense. We have had them, and will have plenty more before the Pro ever shows up. Lists were posted on the previous page for reference.

This generation hasn't started like the ps4 generation started, that's what it feels like To me anyway. I remember some time of it struggling to take off but it didn't feel like 3 years.

I would say over 80 percent of sonys first party games are on ps4, this is not what happened with ps4 and ps3 is it?

You can't just use previous gen timelines as we used to have gens that were 4 or 5 years long.

I'm interested to see and hear more about the hardware, I would just like to hear sonys thought process behind this one. That's all.

 

[Mephisto40]

What exactly is a pro console going to add that doesn't double or triple the price of the console?

Not sure people are thinking about this properly at all, the next step up would be to get ray tracing running smoothly at 60fps at 4K, even top end graphics cards that cost thousands struggle to do that

 

[tr1p1ex]

I'll believe it when I see it. Not sure what the takeaway of the PS4 Pro was for Sony. And the pandemic changes the equation a bit as well and not in the affirmative for a PS5 Pro. Last, in my superficial attention of the details, PS5 still holds advantages over pcgaming.

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

PS5 still holds advantages over pcgaming.

Where.

 

[tr1p1ex]

"Cerny doesn't see the PS4 Pro as a new generation for two reasons: It doesn't have significantly more memory or a new CPU."

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

The reason it will exist is because people want a stronger PS5. Why they made PS4 Pro has little to do with it now

I think that the people that truly cares about getting more graphics options have or will just buy a PC over buying another PS5.

The reason the PS4 pro was made does matter because if you understood why it happened you would realize it’s not very likely they will repeat a pro console again this gen. Even Xbox already said they won’t be doing one.

We will see….

I think the main issue isn’t the power of the consoles but more so games being rushed out and devs not fully taking advantage of the current hardware.

 

[vivftp]

Not a bad call at all. Easiest driver to get current owners to buy new hardware and move the old console to another room or pass it on to another user. They must have the metrics to show it works.


This generation hasn't started like the ps4 generation started, that's what it feels like To me anyway. I remember some time of it struggling to take off but it didn't feel like 3 years.

I would say over 80 percent of sonys first party games are on ps4, this is not what happened with ps4 and ps3 is it?

You can't just use previous gen timelines as we used to have gens that were 4 or 5 years long.

I'm interested to see and hear more about the hardware, I would just like to hear sonys thought process behind this one. That's all.

They'll no doubt freely share their thought process just like they did last gen. I would presume it's just like last gen in that they want to offer a more powerful option at the mid point of the gen to gamers who want more than what the base console can offer and who might be considering the jump over to PC. I've already explained in an earlier post why Sony would want to do everything possible to hold on to these people.

Regardless of your feelings, we have had plenty of current gen games and the enhancements we've gotten over last gen versions in cross gen games is noteworthy. And forgive me for being crude, who cares if there has been a lot of cross gen content? It doesn't really matter. A game is a game and the PS5 versions of those games were the definitive versions. Horizon FW is still lauded as one of the most impressive games released so far this gen, it doesn't make one damn of a difference that it was cross gen.

If you do wish to gripe about cross gen, remember that Sony's intention was for cross gen of their titles to only last (for the most part) through the first year of the PS5s life. After that the vast majority of content was supposed to be current gen only. As we all know, the pandemic pushed that time table back so it lasted 2 years instead of 1. That's not gonna get in the way of the Pro launching, it would come regardless as it's path was set many many years ago.

As for timelines, they would be releasing it at the mid point of the gen as it's a mid-gen refresh. By its nature it'd release in the middle of the gen. Waiting to release it even later puts it too close to the PS6

 

[DenchDeckard]

They'll no doubt freely share their thought process just like they did last gen. I would presume it's just like last gen in that they want to offer a more powerful option at the mid point of the gen to gamers who want more than what the base console can offer and who might be considering the jump over to PC. I've already explained in an earlier post why Sony would want to do everything possible to hold on to these people.

Regardless of your feelings, we have had plenty of current gen games and the enhancements we've gotten over last gen versions in cross gen games is noteworthy. And forgive me for being crude, who cares if there has been a lot of cross gen content? It doesn't really matter. A game is a game and the PS5 versions of those games were the definitive versions. Horizon FW is still lauded as one of the most impressive games released so far this gen, it doesn't make one damn of a difference that it was cross gen.

If you do wish to gripe about cross gen, remember that Sony's intention was for cross gen of their titles to only last (for the most part) through the first year of the PS5s life. After that the vast majority of content was supposed to be current gen only. As we all know, the pandemic pushed that time table back so it lasted 2 years instead of 1. That's not gonna get in the way of the Pro launching, it would come regardless as it's path was set many many years ago.

As for timelines, they would be releasing it at the mid point of the gen as it's a mid-gen refresh. By its nature it'd release in the middle of the gen. Waiting to release it even later puts it too close to the PS6

My only gripe would be we were told the marketing message that games would push this new hardware. We would see interesting new game design and many more opportunities brought to us by such things as nanite etc.

In reality, we have faster loading and 60fps last gen games.

Current gen games are struggling to hit 1080p and 30fps with terrible upscaling.

Is this the reality of these boxes? I don't think so but they won't have an incentive to tap them out. They'll just move onto the next one.

 

[Fess]

I think that the people that truly cares about getting more graphics options have or will just buy a PC over buying another PS5.

The reason the PS4 pro was made does matter because if you understood why it happened you would realize it’s not very likely they will repeat a pro console again this gen. Even Xbox already said they won’t be doing one.

We will see….

I think the main issue isn’t the power of the consoles but more so games being rushed out and devs not fully taking advantage of the current hardware.

A PC as an alternative only really work for Xbox gamers as long as Sony delay PC versions.
For those who like Sony’s exclusives and is annoyed at the low resolution and rocky framerates it makes perfect sense to upgrade to a PS5 Pro.

This is what I said earlier in this thread:

I skipped PS4 Pro, will skip PS5 Pro as well. One console per manufacturer per generation is enough for me.

But since then we’ve seen FFXVI come out with an unstable framerate in low resolutions that essentially force people to play a fast action game in 30fps.
Today I think I would buy the PS5 Pro just to not have to do this waiting game to get games on PC.

 

[vivftp]

My only gripe would be we were told the marketing message that games would push this new hardware. We would see interesting new game design and many more opportunities brought to us by such things as nanite etc.

In reality, we have faster loading and 60fps last gen games.

Current gen games are struggling to hit 1080p and 30fps with terrible upscaling.

Is this the reality of these boxes? I don't think so but they won't have an incentive to tap them out. They'll just move onto the next one.

If we factor in what little we know about the pandemic delays, we're very likey right now getting games that were meant for the second year of the consoles life before they got pushed into the third year. Early gen games rarely ever push a console to its limits as devs are still upgrading their tech and learning how to develop for this new hardware. Compare the first half of the PS4 gen to the second half - the second half shits all over the first half cause devs had time to upgrade their tech and learned to properly take advantage of the hardware. It's a cycle that will occur each and every gen.

Thinking that devs will just phone in games on the base console and focus on the Pro consoles is honestly silly. No matter what, the base consoles will outsell the Pro by a large margin. Devs aren't gonna shit all over the vast majority of their potential userbase to focus on the smaller audience only. It's just needless worrying over nothing.

 

[MH3M3D]

Looking at the horrible framerate of FF16, I'd say a PS5 Pro can't come fast enough. Sure its not well optimized, but yesss... there will always be badly optimized games thay I'd like to play @ smooth 60fps.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Looking at the horrible framerate of FF16, I'd say a PS5 Pro can't come fast enough. Sure its not well optimized, but yesss... there will always be badly optimized games thay I'd like to play @ smooth 60fps.

*a few years later, a PS6 cannot come soon enough. For mysterious reasons PS5 Pro did not deliver what we dreamed and the situation seems to be worse. Releasing HW more frequently as Moore’s Law is dying seems to be making the problem worse… games seem to be less optimised for each console specs with more profiles we have on the market… shocking.

$700+ consoles way bigger than the current ones would be a market failure so, as the pace (time and cost) technology is improving at slowing down more and more with $500 boxes constrained in size and power consumption (as well as with diminishing returns hitting us more and more where you need larger and larger improvements in HW performance to make a significant dent in games… and more HW profiles disincentivising spending lots and lots of time optimising any one profile) I think Pro consoles are the anti answer. Not the first time consumers ask for something that does not benefit them though .

 

[Xtib81]

Full path tracing at a decent performance (40fps) is a pipe dream on ps5 pro, right?

 

[Pasta la Vista]

So, there was suppose to be a leak or something today?

 

[joshwaan]

Not a chance,6900XT at best

Happy with that in a console

 

[PeteBull]

Full path tracing at a decent performance (40fps) is a pipe dream on ps5 pro, right?

Lets check how good cp2077 runs with it, aka overdrive rt settings Thats ofc on currently strongest gpu aka 1600$ msrp rtx 4090 that has 450W tdp on its own https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4090.c3889

As u can see in the vid, dips under 20fps in 4k native.

How strong ps5pr0 can get in comparision to rtx 4090, assuming its gonna be rdna4 archi from amd, on 3nm process(so earliest launchdate holiday 2024)?

We wont know for sure till we see amd's flagship card and how it performs ofc.

Logical estimates giving power constrains(max 250 W real power draw for whole console) would point towards 2x raster(so non rt) performance, in layman terms games that run in 4k30fps on base ps5 would have enough headroom to run in 4k60 at same settings.

RT performance depends on how big gainz amd gonna make in their new rdna4 cards, obviously gonna be big, maybe even close to current 4090 but who knows, maybe it will be 1 tier below?

Another comparision, just for fun ofc, but with current amd tech avaiable for us right now, i would expect max ps5pr0 can be now is downclocked hard gpu same or tiny bit cut down rx 7900xt (it has 300W tdp so downclocking it hard and cutting a bit would have to be done), its price is around 750$ atm so relatively low https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=547&sort=price&page=1 .

Bear in mind thats made on 6nm process so 3nm would help a ton with powerdraw(wouldnt help with more oomph, which not downclocked its about 2x ps5 base now, so downclocked would probably be around 1,6-1,7x only).

Thats the reason we need that lil bit more push/time so die like that on rx 7900xt(529 square mm) can be bit more powerful and if made on 3nm node will be vastly more powerefficient, on top of increased rt performance coz of rdna3 to rdna4 jump.

 

[Optimus Lime]

I'll believe it when I see it. Not sure what the takeaway of the PS4 Pro was for Sony. And the pandemic changes the equation a bit as well and not in the affirmative for a PS5 Pro. Last, in my superficial attention of the details, PS5 still holds advantages over pcgaming.

It really, really, really doesn't. At all.

 

[Loxus]

Pro consoles are waste of time, alot of enthusiasts gamers are already switching to PC since PS exclusives are coming to PC anyway. The PS4 pro make sense because 4k TVs market was expanding and Sony wanted to push the sales of their 4k tvs with PS4 pro for gamers. That's the main reason according to Cerny anyway.

Timestamped.

So PS4 Pro wasn't created to boost performance but to support the 4k market.

So that means a PS5 Pro would be created to support the 8k market. It's possible with AI upscaling, but i don't see a big enough demand for 8k.

 

[Physiognomonics]

So PS4 Pro wasn't created to boost performance but to support the 4k market.

So that means a PS5 Pro would be created to support the 8k market. It's possible with AI upscaling, but i don't see a big enough demand for 8k.

No. Do you even try to read the room about that? Most games even at 30fps don't run at native 4K. There is still a lot of margin before reaching 4K with max fidelity. And then reaching 60fps with that. This time it's all about RT.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

The PS4 pro make sense because 4k TVs market was expanding and Sony wanted to push the sales of their 4k tvs with PS4 pro for gamers. That's the main reason according to Cerny anyway.

His remarks at the timestamp you provided say very clearly it was the other way around. SIE wanted to support the 4K TVs that were getting higher market penetration.
People keep attributing Playstation features to whatever appears on Sony TVs and vice versa, but in reality SIE's coordination with the Bravia division is comically almost non-existent. The percentage of Playstation owners who also own a modern Bravia TV must be ridiculously low, it's probably on par with the ones with an Xperia smartphone.

So that means a PS5 Pro would be created to support the 8k market. It's possible with AI upscaling, but i don't see a big enough demand for 8k.

The PS5 Pro wouldn't sell with the motivation to support 8K TVs (which are already supported by hardware in the PS5).
The motivation for the PS5 Pro would be to play the new-gen games at their highest graphics setting and +60FPS. I'd guess there would be a significant boost to PSVR2 quality as well.

 

[Rea]

PS 1st party and second party exclusives don't care about the Xbox Seriously Struggling.



PS5 Pro makes 100x more sense than PS4 Pro ever did. When games are designed with RT lighting from the start, it will be much easier to promote from a visual perspective with comparisons. Also, Cerny making a big deal about ray tracing ushering in the third era of gaming after 2D and 3D supports PS5 Pro being an RT focused console.

RT is too demanding even with the Pro consoles. I don't think pro consoles will make much of a difference. Even with most of the expensive GPUs on PC, can't hit 4k 60fps.

 

[Rea]

His remarks at the timestamp you provided say very clearly it was the other way around. SIE wanted to support the 4K TVs that were getting higher market penetration.
People keep attributing Playstation features to whatever appears on Sony TVs and vice versa, but in reality SIE's coordination with the Bravia division is comically almost non-existent. The percentage of Playstation owners who also own a modern Bravia TV must be ridiculously low, it's probably on par with the ones with an Xperia smartphone.




The PS5 Pro wouldn't sell with the motivation to support 8K TVs (which are already supported by hardware in the PS5).
The motivation for the PS5 Pro would be to play the new-gen games at their highest graphics setting and +60FPS. I'd guess there would be a significant boost to PSVR2 quality as well.

Don't know what's your point. I clearly said the main purpose of the PS4 pro is to support 4k tvs owners. According to cerny.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

So PS4 Pro wasn't created to boost performance but to support the 4k market.

So that means a PS5 Pro would be created to support the 8k market. It's possible with AI upscaling, but i don't see a big enough demand for 8k.

Maybe 6-8k down-sampling.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Don't know what's your point. I clearly said the main purpose of the PS4 pro is to support 4k tvs owners. According to cerny.

My point is the PS4 Pro had nothing to do with Sony trying to sell 4K TVs. It was about supporting 4K TVs from all brands.

 

[SHA]

*a few years later, a PS6 cannot come soon enough. For mysterious reasons PS5 Pro did not deliver what we dreamed and the situation seems to be worse. Releasing HW more frequently as Moore’s Law is dying seems to be making the problem worse… games seem to be less optimised for each console specs with more profiles we have on the market… shocking.

$700+ consoles way bigger than the current ones would be a market failure so, as the pace (time and cost) technology is improving at slowing down more and more with $500 boxes constrained in size and power consumption (as well as with diminishing returns hitting us more and more where you need larger and larger improvements in HW performance to make a significant dent in games… and more HW profiles disincentivising spending lots and lots of time optimising any one profile) I think Pro consoles are the anti answer. Not the first time consumers ask for something that does not benefit them though .

What's the point of Moore’s Law if big contents don't release frequently as the hardware revisions? The gap between releases is unacceptable.

 

[SHA]

RT is too demanding even with the Pro consoles. I don't think pro consoles will make much of a difference. Even with most of the expensive GPUs on PC, can't hit 4k 60fps.

A console just to make 10 games run better, this is stupid.

 

[Rea]

My point is the PS4 Pro had nothing to do with Sony trying to sell 4K TVs. It was about supporting 4K TVs from all brands.

Ok, but i think it is both ways. They use Ps4Pro to also push their bravia 4kTVs to gamers for 4k gaming.