This argument brings me back to "beautiful". Describing your own "beautiful" is formed from life experience. Why is "beautiful" not as bad as "exotic" then? Both are formed from the same experiences essentially. If we're talking subtext, why not put both on the same level and denounce both?
"Exotic" might not be a compliment towards people
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This argument brings me back to "beautiful". Describing your own "beautiful" is formed from life experience. Why is "beautiful" not as bad as "exotic" then? Both are formed from the same experiences essentially. If we're talking subtext, why not put both on the same level and denounce both?
hendersonhank
Member
Yes. This whole thing cracks me up that a tiny subset of people, or maybe just one blogger, are managing to make it yet one more thing to get offended about, because there aren't enough of those these days.
It means nothing more than: "You don't look like most of the people around here, you stand out", and is nearly ALWAYS meant in a positive way.
And wow at people saying you should apologize to someone who gets offended when you open the door for them. God forbid you have good manners; now you have to apologize for their fucking incredible rudeness in not only not thanking you, but complaining about it. When their offense offends you, should you both stand there apologizing to one another?
So much of this stuff boils down to "I'm going to take everything anyone says or does in the most negative fucking light possible, interpret everything as some kind of insult, and no, this is not MY problem, it's theirs, and THEY need to apologize for MY insane need to feel slighted at every opportunity."
Well, don't complain if she tells you she doesn't like it.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Okay
If a compliment is offensive to someone, it's not a compliment because it doesn't provide any value for them. Being against apologizing for making that compliment means that you don't actually care about the person, you care about their aesthetic value.
If you open the door for a woman and they become offended, apologizing goes a long way. If they don't know you and remain offended, what do you care? Were you trying to get into their pants? If you do know them, I should hope that you're in a good enough position with that person that the apology can work. The person you held the door open for, did not want the door held open and found it offensive for a reason I'm sure you can understand.
Also, "sexy bitch" is technically a compliment, but we avoid it for good reason. A compliment can demean inherently.
If a compliment is offensive to someone, it's not a compliment because it doesn't provide any value for them. Being against apologizing for making that compliment means that you don't actually care about the person, you care about their aesthetic value.
If you open the door for a woman and they become offended, apologizing goes a long way. If they don't know you and remain offended, what do you care? Were you trying to get into their pants? If you do know them, I should hope that you're in a good enough position with that person that the apology can work. The person you held the door open for, did not want the door held open and found it offensive for a reason I'm sure you can understand.
Also, "sexy bitch" is technically a compliment, but we avoid it for good reason. A compliment can demean inherently.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Well, thank you for telling me that my approach is ridiculous and insincere to you. I'll note your preferences :>
I donno about the green/red lights analogy. Who are you apologising to, in this scenario?
Why does it bother you so much that others may opt to apologise even if the offense is something that does not make sense to them? An apology can be to communicate that one is sorry that one has caused hurt and not to retract one's philosophy.
What do you mean by "go a long way"? You paired it with the opposite being trying to get into their pants. Sounds creepy to be nice to just have sex.
People being offended is a constant thing. You can't apologize for benign inconveniences. There's a point where you got to say, "This is ridiculous." Not every hurt feeling needs to be apologized for. It sucks when you think ideally but we're not in that world, we live in the real world.
You said you would understand my position in a previous post but I get a mock response to it? See. Pragmatic.
You, as a friend, are apologizing to the person who had to stop at a red light.
It bothers me because it's not realistic. I haven't met a single person in real life who was this apologizing and cared for feelings even when they're ridiculous. Not even Jesus did that. I just find it hard to believe the arguments of, "be mindful of their feelings" are really handled the same in real life. I would like to believe it but I'm not an idealist. So it all comes off as really fake to me as these mindful individuals on a grand feeling scale only exist online.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Oh, I'll probably do it if there is a car-to-car IM
XD
no no. i didn't mock in my response :x truly.
It's okay if you dont think it's realistic for you. I find it has been working okay for me. I donno about Jesus, I think he can even forgive big offenses, though. But who knows. Maybe he's just one happy hippy dude.
I'm not an idealist on some other matters. I have issues that are far from being progressive on many things, but, for me, being mindful of others' feelings is one of the easier ones that I can act on.
Additional disclosure, I am an HR manager, so maybe I've come into appreciating all kinds of points of view a little bit better? In my career, I have to always be as impartial as I can and listen to why person A is hurtful for person B, and listen to why person B did what person B did, and so on. And I've found that, in many cases, people are completely unaware of what life's like for the other person, and that's why there are so much miscommunication.
Sincerely, I've been enjoying the discussion, Sketchybag. I do apologise if my perspective or even my manner of speech is disagreeable to you, but I've taken your point-of-view and I acknowledge that for you, certain level of empathy is unrealistic and smells of bollocks. I can understand that.
Sorry for the late reply, but:
"Wooden" is frequently used to describe people. It's even defined in the dictionary (m-w.com) as "not showing any emotion or energy".
"Wooden" is frequently used to describe people. It's even defined in the dictionary (m-w.com) as "not showing any emotion or energy".
N7Slayer24
Banned
Crap that thread is like the Neogaf bizarro world. Never seen anything like that on here otherwise.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Yes you can. It is literally one of the easiest ways you can do to respond. Why are you so offended by the idea that something you may say or do will be offensive to someone else, even if you don't think it would be?
Also, explaining the obvious rn: "go a long way" means "does a lot to calm the situation rather than say "stop being offended, idiot" or "this is ridiculous, stop feeling a different way than me"". Your solution is to continue to offend, because you're so defensive that the moment that you might be identified by any one person as having been offensive in your life is the moment that you become a bad person.
The moment you became a bad person was when you decided that you have more right to offend people and not apologize than they have the right to feel offended. Citing "we live in the real world, get over it" means little when you're actively a part of why "suck it up" is as powerful a response as it is.
Oh c'mon.
The word "beautiful" has no context other than the aesthetics of the object described.
The word "exotic" necessarily expresses that the object is foreign. Hence the "exo" part of the word which means "outside". So if you wanted to be really literal, exotic means "outsider". Indeed "foreigner" is the original meaning of the word.
So when you say someone is beautiful you are describing their aesthetics and nothing more. But when you say someone is exotic you are telling them that they are from somewhere else.
Don't you see the difference between describing the pure aesthetics of someone and calling them a foreigner?
Apologizing for benign inconveniences is silly and ridiculous are really just trying to be self-righteous at that point.
My solution wasn't to "offend" more. However, you seem to want to stack cards here with your "if they think you opening the door is offensive" then there's no real understanding your point as it's from a ridiculous example.
I don't have to apologize for people being offended by benign incidents. It's unrealistic, it's stupid, and it's a way of life that's not sustainable.
I can make a reaching argument about "beautiful":
If you acknowledge "beautiful" you acknowledge the opposite exists (because nothing can exist without the opposite existing), so ugly now exists. Ugly can only exist in things deemed ugly by you. Why separate and label people as ugly and beautiful? See how stupid these arguments are? They're benign and worded to make you feel offended. The actual offense is 0/10.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That is your choice. You choose to disrespect them, to decide that something you don't understand is ridiculous. The fact that most of your argument is you throwing your hands up in frustration and crying tears about the "PC Police" telling you what you can't use to describe other people says a lot. A person has more right to not be called exotic than you have the right to call them exotic. This is an uncontroversial statement. Your intent means nothing because they don't like being called that word, and all you can do is whine about being limited in how you can categorize women.
In the end, you do nothing to address THIS word and do everything to complain about political correctness. Without mentioning any single other word that you consider to be acceptable that others do not find acceptable, why is THIS word okay by default? Why can this word not be offensive?
In the end, you do nothing to address THIS word and do everything to complain about political correctness. Without mentioning any single other word that you consider to be acceptable that others do not find acceptable, why is THIS word okay by default? Why can this word not be offensive?
See how stacked you're making this? You say I am disrespecting them yet all because I won't apologize for calling someone who's from, let's say, Thailand exotic to me? You're being unreasonable. Being offended by that is unreasonable as mentioned above in the beautiful example.
They don't like being called that word? Did I miss a poll or something? It's weird how people argue "exotic" yet don't mention the "exotic" features people love: accents, skin tone, body features, culture, etc. they care that it's a "separator" and how it's "keeping them out". Like being exotic is a horrible thing.
Your messages are in an accusing manner. Please don't do that.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Its true we don't all respond the same way to the same things - but that goes both ways. Being called exotic may be very much welcome and make someone feel good as well. For example, I don't like it when people tell me they love my accent (UK living in the US) because it makes me feel self conscious and an outsider but that's my issue and I certainly wouldn't want them to stop complementing people because of my own insecurities.
First, I disagree with your premise. Simply because one thing is beautiful doesn't necessarily mean something else is ugly. I don't need a reference for ugly to be able to perceive that something is beautiful. That's a false dichotomy.
However, going with your hypothetical for a moment, even if your ugly/beauty dichotomy were true, when you say that someone is beautiful no specific person is the target of "ugly" - no real people are harmed. But when you call someone exotic you are specifically calling them a foreigner. You are thus potentially harming that person if they do not want to be referred to as foreign.
You do need a reference of ugly to see something as beautiful or else it isn't "beautiful" just as how you can't know what "wet" really is if you're always wet. See?
No "real" person is harmed? Categorizing humans based on looks isn't harmful? Man, that sure wouldn't bode well for society--wait, it already happens. : /
You're not defaulting the person to foreigner status, you're simply saying by your life experiences you find this type of person to be exotic thus desirable. Also, you seem to put "foreigner" as a horrible word when yet it's really benign; however, if we want to just use abuse situations then we can easily see the spin in your post:
noun
1.
a person not native to or naturalized in the country or jurisdiction under consideration; alien.
2.
a person from outside one's community.
3.
a thing produced in or brought from a foreign country.
4.
Nautical. a foreign vessel.
A Link to the Past
Banned
You need a poll to help you determine whether you should use a word or not? Honestly now...
The problem with your premise is that, from what I can gather from how you post, your issue is not that you care about offending someone (as indicated by the fact that you view people being offended by the word 'exotic'), but that you don't want to be viewed as offensive. Your issues are all about you, you, you. You don't want to have to be inconvenienced by political correctness, you don't want to have to "waste time" by apologizing for something that you didn't perceive as bad, you don't want to have to limit your speech - because not enough people apparently care about the word.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
bolded parts are not totes acceptable to be commented under exotic either, for me.
specially body features and skin tone. :x
also culture. idk. saying "whoa, your culture is so exotic!" is like..... so cringe.
When the entire thread is basically, "Well, if you call a girl a foreigner she won't like it because you're excluding her", then yeah. There's a lot of speaking for people who aren't really here going on. It's only an issue in the discussion of whether or not it's an issue. You can make snide remarks like, "honestly now..." all you want, I'm just going through this logically and there's a lot of inconsistencies people aren't even looking at.
I care if I offend someone if it's a real offense. If I call someone exotic and they get offended I would probably roll my eyes and walk away. Ain't nobody got time for that problem.
I never mentioned anything about political correctness. Do not put words in my mouth.
I limit my speech to what's appropriate. You're spinning this as if I go around saying all types of things. Way to generalize.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Then please stop pretending like you're not disrespecting that person. Again, this is all a situation of you thinking that speech revolves around you, and others who can't use certain words. To you, the people who you offend are irrelevant - obviously, they have no right to be offended by the word exotic, for reasons that always include whining about PC. The fact that you brought up the word "beautiful" shows that PC is the only argument you have. You're trying to conflate this with other words and saying "Well then ban this word, and ban this word!" You're characterizing this as speech limitation, when it's only related to being respectful to people who may not hold the same value in certain words as you do (while you roll your eyes at them).
Exotic cultures exist. What's wrong with saying it exotic? I think there's a giant miscommunication or understanding of what "exotic" actually means.
I'm sorry, you may find those a no-no, but you got to convince a lot of people who love Irish accents they're being mean. After all, it generally is prefaced with exotic or something synonymous.
I am not disrespecting that person. I don't see a reason why I should apologize and feel bad for people over reaction. You have yet to prove it isn't an over reaction.
I am not saying speech revolves around me. I am saying people over react and we shouldn't have to apologize or care for their over reaction.
I used beautiful as a way to show that all descriptors can have negative aspects. If you saw that as political correctness that is your issue. It also works nicely as a example as to how people can see what they want to see.
I will propose this same question to you: if I find your post truly offensive and my feelings are hurt, will you apologize to me in a sincere manner? Saying you would is a giant over reaction. Saying you won't is the correct way to proceed.
A. No, logically that is not true. Saying something is beautiful does not mean something else is ugly. Similarly, just because something is ugly doesn't mean that something beautiful exists.
To illustrate: if there are 5 paintings, and these are the only paintings in the world. I describe one as beautiful. That does not imply that the others are ugly. The only thing that it implies is that the painting I just described is beautiful, and mentions nothing of the others. Even if I said the painting was the most beautiful it doesn't imply that any of the others are ugly. In fact, it's possible that all of the paintings are beautiful.
B. Again, no one is harmed. Since I have just proved that beauty does not imply ugly. It's possible for all to be beautiful even if some are more beautiful than others. But even if there were ugly people none of them is harmed because you are not actually calling them ugly. You are not specifically identifying anyone.
C. Huh, by quoting the dictionary you just proved my point. When you call someone exotic you are calling them a foreigner which is ultimately calling them an alien. So think on that.
Look, I'm tired, and I feel like I'm going on in circles, so I'm going to tell you straight up. Maybe you don't think there's anything wrong with implying that someone is a foreigner. But this is hurtful to a lot of people, especially if they live with the "perpetual foreigner" stereotype. And when you call someone "exotic" you reinforce that stereotype. Regardless of your intentions this is a demeaning thing to do.
Step outside of your own shoes and see why people object to this and why they wouldn't want to be referred to in this way. It's pretty simple.
A Link to the Past
Banned
You are officially saying that walking away from someone in response to them feeling offended by something you said is not disrespectful. That it's not disrespectful because you don't understand their feelings yet declare that their feelings are invalid.
To answer your question, I generally don't apologize for reading posts about people complaining about political correctness and say "that person is complaining about political correctness."
To answer your question, I generally don't apologize for reading posts about people complaining about political correctness and say "that person is complaining about political correctness."
I gotta' say I'm with the people that are taken aback by the idea that "exotic" carries negative and/or derogatory connotations. I always figured the colloquial use of "exotic" as the kind of beauty you don't normally see. Not that I have any problem with stopping myself from saying it, because it's not the first word I would think of if I'm trying to compliment someone beautiful. The thing is I usually have to have a pretty strong emotional response to strike something from my normal language and this one ranks pretty low. I'd definitely rather hear the case from people rather than esoteric youtube and tumblr personalities.
You cannot describe what beautiful is without acknowledging there is something that can't be beautiful or else it isn't beautiful it is just a thing you've seen. Same with nice and mean. You don't know what nice is unless you know what mean is.
You haven't proved anything other than you think beauty can exist without the opposite. Which is a pretty hard sell since you don't know what beautiful is without the opposite.
Handicapped is an offensive word then. So think on that.
You are misunderstanding or not even reading my posts. I already said calling someone who was born and raised or gained citizenship or even lives there most of their life without documents isn't considered a foreigner to me and is rude. I said exotic people are exotic based on life experiences (like beauty, desires, or most other preferences) and isn't a negative way to describe someone who you are not culturally literate in. Exotic isn't used by every Caucasian to describe Koreans. No, it's people who aren't literate or know much about their culture or meet or see them. I live in Vancouver, it's quite hard for me to find someone exotic, so I rarely use it. If I lived in Edmonton or White Horse I would find so many people exotic.
Winterfang
Banned
Guys I think we are going in circles.
Back to the main topic, I think the woman in the video has a wrong idea of what Exotic means. Since she seems to imply that the word can only have one very specific connotation, I'm referring to the "you don't really look like, what your ethnicity would let me to believe you should look like".
You can both be considered exotic by being a perfectly ordinary person out of their element. Like for example a talk, bulk, long haired, elfish, Thor look alike Norwegian in Thailand, anyway other place he would be okay but someone over there my find his beauty exotic.
Or a regular person in their element but with a particular different feature (don't be jumping now, that's just a word, feature doesn't need to be automatically racist, or even race related) like having deep tanned skin, curly hair and piercing green eyes, makes a beautiful contrast and can be found to be out of the norm, or exotic.
Or a person with an striking looking face, attractive but different from our standard ideas of beauty. Like Loki from avengers. Long hair, skinny, deep widows peek, really pale. Girls find him really attractive yet he is not what you call ordinary.
Or just a girl with lots of piercing that only dressed in animal print leggings and can rock a Mohawk like no ones business.
I don't think it means, I think you are pretty because yoyo don't look like your race or because you look too much like your ethnicity.
Back to the main topic, I think the woman in the video has a wrong idea of what Exotic means. Since she seems to imply that the word can only have one very specific connotation, I'm referring to the "you don't really look like, what your ethnicity would let me to believe you should look like".
You can both be considered exotic by being a perfectly ordinary person out of their element. Like for example a talk, bulk, long haired, elfish, Thor look alike Norwegian in Thailand, anyway other place he would be okay but someone over there my find his beauty exotic.
Or a regular person in their element but with a particular different feature (don't be jumping now, that's just a word, feature doesn't need to be automatically racist, or even race related) like having deep tanned skin, curly hair and piercing green eyes, makes a beautiful contrast and can be found to be out of the norm, or exotic.
Or a person with an striking looking face, attractive but different from our standard ideas of beauty. Like Loki from avengers. Long hair, skinny, deep widows peek, really pale. Girls find him really attractive yet he is not what you call ordinary.
Or just a girl with lots of piercing that only dressed in animal print leggings and can rock a Mohawk like no ones business.
I don't think it means, I think you are pretty because yoyo don't look like your race or because you look too much like your ethnicity.
You're spinning this to make "exotic" as offensive as actual offensive words.
I am saying an over reaction to a benign comment is an over reaction and I have nothing to apologize for.
You still have yet to make a case as for why calling someone "exotic" isn't an over reaction. The onus is on you, not us to prove it's truly offensive and not an over reaction. Our job--the people defending exotic--is to show you it's just an over reaction.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Your insistence that Sketchbag has problems with political correctness is the exact kind of pushiness and lack of empathy you're accusing him of. The irony.
Nope your logic isn't sound. I know something is beautiful not because I have a reference to something that is not beautiful but because it has a "combination of qualities, such as shape, color, or form, that pleases the aesthetic senses". I like what I like and it has nothing to do with disliking other things.
You actually come across like you are defending ignorance. I mean you admit you see why people are offended by being called exotic, yet it's somehow OK for some bumpkin in the sticks to use it because they've never interacted with other ethnic groups (?). C'mon, don't be that guy.
You can't have one without the other. It's just not possible. There's no real way to prove this to as you seem to not want to understand the concept of dualism.
Way to sleaze over my post. I've been saying in this thread that there are negative aspects to all descriptors. It's not possible all are all inclusive and positive 100%. The exotic negatives are small. The positives are more neutral-good because it's interchangeable.
It is also perfectly reasonable for someone in White Horse to find Eygptians exotic. It's not like I'm saying it's OK for them to be racist because they haven't met many minorities before. How you don't see how exotic is relative is beyond me.
Thanks! It's an odd thing to say, period. My guess someone is trying to fresh with their vocabulary. Like I said I got no problem with not using the word and now that this whole thing is brought to my attention, I'll be open to it in my every day life.
Winterfang
Banned
I don't think the words are mutually exclusive. Like you can be exotic and homely and you can be an exotic beauty. Is kind of like saying, you are a beautiful but out of the ordinary, which mean you a an special kind of beauty. Kind of like a cheesy and dated double compliment. That's how I use it anyway, is a pretty vague word.
I feel the same way about being called exotic that I do about having my race constantly brought up on a date ("your beautiful skinnnn...") or being with a guy who constantly refers to himself as being "SUPER into black people!" and thinking I'm supposed to be flattered.
It's an overemphasis on my appearance, not just because you think I'm attractive, but because you are attracted specifically to my "otherness." Makes me feel like you're not really seeing me. It's not a compliment.
It's an overemphasis on my appearance, not just because you think I'm attractive, but because you are attracted specifically to my "otherness." Makes me feel like you're not really seeing me. It's not a compliment.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
I meant to say that I cringe whenever I heard it not because it's a no-no per se but because it reflects on the person saying it being.... uh, for lack of better word, unworldly.
As in a person can be a worldly woman or man and this person commenting on how exotic a culture is the opposite of that spectrum.
Winterfang
Banned
Thanks for listeningAnd yeah, it just seems weird to me to call someone exotic :/
Wait, so exotic can mean 'not pretty' too? Great. I wonder how many people were subtly calling me homely this whole time :/
No, it means the word is not associated with physical beauty. But rather with uniqueness or out of ordinary, or not common in your eyes. Like exotic spices. They are not beautiful spices, or bad spices, they are uncommon spices that the ones you far used to see.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Off Topic, but Fiction, ...... you are beautiful <333333
Well, you can't blame a lot of people for not being wordly, again it's all relative and based on life experience.
Thanks for listening
Wait, so exotic can mean 'not pretty' too? Great. I wonder how many people were subtly calling me homely this whole time :/
The worst part is realizing how many people feign being nice.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Yes, Sketchbag, I'm definitely not blaming people, and certainly I dont hold you to be particularly bad / wrong / blameful (I can't find the right word)...
I was just explaining that it's not a no-no per se.
Thank you dear, I promise I wasn't fishing for compliments though.
If that's Spike crying then there needs to be more Spike having sex with invisible Buffy.
Winterfang
Banned
Don't worry man, is okay to defend your opinion. As long as you don't let your anger get the best from you and start insulting, you will do fine.
I don't have that gif because I don't see why I'd need it in everyday forum conversations
It's totally needed. Because reasons and general lolness.
I hope I didn't do that here.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Hahaha, you do seem a bit absorbed by this topic :>
"Exotic" is such a meaningless word, anyway. I guess it means, "you fit my standards of attractiveness while not looking entirely like the average white American"?
Interesting how Latin Americans, Asian Americans, and African nationals are constantly described as "exotic", but the word is never used for African Americans.
I feel so sorry for all the people (especially women) who deal with this bullshit.
Interesting how Latin Americans, Asian Americans, and African nationals are constantly described as "exotic", but the word is never used for African Americans.
I feel so sorry for all the people (especially women) who deal with this bullshit.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Winterfang
Banned
You haven't, you giving you a tip. As someone that rarely shares GAF popular opinion but also isn't someone that gets usually banned over heated decisions. People will gang up on you, with multi quotes. It's not on purpose, just the nature of a forum, since the more something gets quote, the more attention it gets. But don't thing certain group of GAF is out to get you, that'd how people get permd and you are still a junior.
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