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Fallout New Vegas |OT| Obsidian does what Bethesdon't
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Lord_Nergal
Member
I finished my hardcore/melee/caesar's legion playthrough. I really enjoyed the melee and hardcore aspect, but the Legion quests kinda sucked.
bonesmccoy
Banned
duckroll said:
If Fallout 4 is just more Fallout 3, neither I am.
I don't want my next Fallout to be another play-by-numbers experience, with cringe-worthy attempts at 1950s satire shoehorned in.
Alcoholikaust
Member
Lakitu said:
This is my problem. level 26 and very little left to kill.
I never complained about the content of FNV, I just thought the game overall was not as good as F3. From the story to the allies, enemies, weapons, just pretty much everything. Destroyed and decaying DC was just so awesome to see and explore. Mojave just wasn't as interesting to me. Enclave VS Brotherhood was also to me way more epic then NCR and Legion. The story of F3 just seemed so much more cohesive and satisfying. However that's just my opinion.
EDIT: Damn I wrote "just" a lot.
EDIT: Damn I wrote "just" a lot.
bonesmccoy
Banned
D6AMIA6N said:
We don't like your kind around here.
Exploration and atmosphere is far far better in Fallout 3. The world design, random encounters, dungeons, art style are superior to FNV. Four very important things. The feel of reward by getting some awesome loot is great. Like getting those codes throughout the wasteland to open up some rare huge armoury. The sheer amount of easter eggs and places. It's very very impressive. I still to this day, have a lot of fun exploring everything. While FNV, I feel... nothing now due to the lack of random encounters and a forgettable setting.
But FNV has superior everything else, especially characters, writing and combat.
But FNV has superior everything else, especially characters, writing and combat.
jim-jam bongs
Member
D6AMIA6N said:
Yes, it was more like a video game story. That is, excessively fixated on cowboys vs indians in lieu of nuance and complexity.
I kinda feel that NV is less about "exploring" and more about "interacting" in general. There's a big difference in the design intention. I don't feel that NV was ever designed as a game where you just wander aimlessly and explore random or unmarked locations and get rewarded with cool shit. There is some of that, but it's rare and not really part of the core game design scope.
More importantly NV is designed as a game which is designed such that there's a lot for the player to interact with, and the various locations, including non-essential locations, are usually linked up or related to some sort of quest or reference made while interacting with something in the world. There's a real sense of the entire world being living and populated by various people and factions. Even in non-essential locations, there is often some sort of tiny bit of story/lore element which ties it with the world. There are signs of people who have visited areas before, and either left behind signs of their passage through the area, or did not survive their entry/residence in that place.
Such design is very subtle, and much more interesting in terms of world building, compared to simply making lots of "cool" stuff which reward the player in terms of raw game-isms (phat loot, epic encounters, etc). When exploring in New Vegas, it is often not very fun to just wander the wasteland aimlessly looking for "cool shit" because you'll probably never find any. On the other hand, if your exploration is objective in nature, and it involves finding new settlements, or talking to as many people as you can in a given area and following up on things they mentioned or doing every side quest offered, you can find a lot of rewarding stuff often hidden in mundane areas.
Even by following up on faction quests, and gaining enough favor to actually join a faction, will reward you with a safehouse key, faction armor, and possibly other faction related goodies which I feel really enhances the roleplaying experience. By helping the Followers of the Apocalypse enough, and being able to join them officially, not only do you get the coat in a legit manner, but you also get to buy mags from Fawkes, and you get a safehouse key. In the safehouse, you find pretty decent loot available on the beds as a reward for your membership, and there's even a Follower who drops by in the safehouse from time to time, creating a sense that it is being maintained by someone.
There's nothing in NV which hits you over the head with "ZOMG LOOK AT THIS, IT'S SO COOL!!!!!", but I also don't think that is the only sort of design philosophy which should exist. NV isn't the sort of game where you fight a giant Radscorpion boss the size of Godzilla which breaks out of a ruined skyscraper and starts eating NCR troops. It's the sort of game where someone will tell you a story of how there's a giant Radscorpion the size of Godzilla wandering around and sometimes feasts on patrolling NCR troops, and then you call the guy the liar. Because he is.
More importantly NV is designed as a game which is designed such that there's a lot for the player to interact with, and the various locations, including non-essential locations, are usually linked up or related to some sort of quest or reference made while interacting with something in the world. There's a real sense of the entire world being living and populated by various people and factions. Even in non-essential locations, there is often some sort of tiny bit of story/lore element which ties it with the world. There are signs of people who have visited areas before, and either left behind signs of their passage through the area, or did not survive their entry/residence in that place.
Such design is very subtle, and much more interesting in terms of world building, compared to simply making lots of "cool" stuff which reward the player in terms of raw game-isms (phat loot, epic encounters, etc). When exploring in New Vegas, it is often not very fun to just wander the wasteland aimlessly looking for "cool shit" because you'll probably never find any. On the other hand, if your exploration is objective in nature, and it involves finding new settlements, or talking to as many people as you can in a given area and following up on things they mentioned or doing every side quest offered, you can find a lot of rewarding stuff often hidden in mundane areas.
Even by following up on faction quests, and gaining enough favor to actually join a faction, will reward you with a safehouse key, faction armor, and possibly other faction related goodies which I feel really enhances the roleplaying experience. By helping the Followers of the Apocalypse enough, and being able to join them officially, not only do you get the coat in a legit manner, but you also get to buy mags from Fawkes, and you get a safehouse key. In the safehouse, you find pretty decent loot available on the beds as a reward for your membership, and there's even a Follower who drops by in the safehouse from time to time, creating a sense that it is being maintained by someone.
There's nothing in NV which hits you over the head with "ZOMG LOOK AT THIS, IT'S SO COOL!!!!!", but I also don't think that is the only sort of design philosophy which should exist. NV isn't the sort of game where you fight a giant Radscorpion boss the size of Godzilla which breaks out of a ruined skyscraper and starts eating NCR troops. It's the sort of game where someone will tell you a story of how there's a giant Radscorpion the size of Godzilla wandering around and sometimes feasts on patrolling NCR troops, and then you call the guy the liar. Because he is.
duckroll said:
You make a great point and I makes alot of sense but because of that it hurts the game in my eyes because It's one of the aspects that enhances the game for me and makes it a Fallout game in my eyes, It's also why I prefer Fallout 3 to NV.
I think it's a part of an open world game like Fallout where you can just find a random place and it will give you a cool random experience which sometimes are the best parts of the game.
I think the main thing that hurts NV is simply that it came after FO3. Not necessarily because FO3 is better (I'll die before supporting that claim!), but because FO3 created certain expectations from the new (and much larger) Fallout fanbase, and NV is simply a totally different type of game. It doesn't help that Bethesda is the publisher, and they don't generally publish this sort of games at all. So instead they marketed NV as one of "their" games, and it looks and sounds a lot like FO3.
Those who followed NV specifically because of the developers involved, definitely had very different expectations for the game compared to those who loved Fallout 3 and just wanted more of that. At this point, I don't even think it's specifically about "Fallout and Fallout 2 fans love New Vegas, Fallout 3 fans hate New Vegas", but rather it's about something much more specific to what the individual expected out of NV. There are many Fallout and Fallout 2 fans who ended up loving Fallout 3 anyway, because let's not kid ourselves, Fallout 2 also had a lot of over the top stuff, and totally bombastic stuff. Fallout 3 amplified all of that, and made it more epic, more bombastic, and "cooler" in general. Those who enjoyed the crazier random encounters in Fallout 2, probably enjoyed the overall world design of Fallout 3 a lot.
On the other hand, there are also many who enjoyed Fallout 2 for the more subtle parts of the game, which is the majority of it. Simply living as a survivor in the post-apocalypse, as the world is rebuilding itself, encountering various cities and factions and interacting with them, being a porn star, getting involved in 1920s style mob warfare, banging Bishop's wife and daughter, getting married and selling your spouse to slavery, etc. It's the little details in the wealth of options you can come across while playing the game that made it really interesting for me to play, and to replay.
NV is similar to that, and there are often many interesting and varied ways to resolve situations or tackle choices. Often most of these amount to simply selecting certain dialogue options or passing skill checks, and the reward is in how characters respond to that, and there's no awesome cutscene or some drastic graphical change or representation. But it is rewarding all the same for those who find the reward of roleplaying to be being able to roleplay in the first place. It's an intangible feeling which is pretty hard to design specifically for, but I think Obsidian does this better than most.
Those who followed NV specifically because of the developers involved, definitely had very different expectations for the game compared to those who loved Fallout 3 and just wanted more of that. At this point, I don't even think it's specifically about "Fallout and Fallout 2 fans love New Vegas, Fallout 3 fans hate New Vegas", but rather it's about something much more specific to what the individual expected out of NV. There are many Fallout and Fallout 2 fans who ended up loving Fallout 3 anyway, because let's not kid ourselves, Fallout 2 also had a lot of over the top stuff, and totally bombastic stuff. Fallout 3 amplified all of that, and made it more epic, more bombastic, and "cooler" in general. Those who enjoyed the crazier random encounters in Fallout 2, probably enjoyed the overall world design of Fallout 3 a lot.
On the other hand, there are also many who enjoyed Fallout 2 for the more subtle parts of the game, which is the majority of it. Simply living as a survivor in the post-apocalypse, as the world is rebuilding itself, encountering various cities and factions and interacting with them, being a porn star, getting involved in 1920s style mob warfare, banging Bishop's wife and daughter, getting married and selling your spouse to slavery, etc. It's the little details in the wealth of options you can come across while playing the game that made it really interesting for me to play, and to replay.
NV is similar to that, and there are often many interesting and varied ways to resolve situations or tackle choices. Often most of these amount to simply selecting certain dialogue options or passing skill checks, and the reward is in how characters respond to that, and there's no awesome cutscene or some drastic graphical change or representation. But it is rewarding all the same for those who find the reward of roleplaying to be being able to roleplay in the first place. It's an intangible feeling which is pretty hard to design specifically for, but I think Obsidian does this better than most.
harriet the spy
Member
holy shit
was a bitch, especially on very hard/ hardcore. Those
things hurt a lot. I am at level 8 and I feel I should come back, but for now I just keep pumping more drugs and stealth boy into my system.
fake edit: finally finished it. Excruciating. I am filled with rads, totally empty of stimpaks, out of radaway/radx, addicted to psycho, ultrajet, and medx. If there was no fast travel i am pretty sure botflies could kill me on the way home.
vault 34
glowing ones
fake edit: finally finished it. Excruciating. I am filled with rads, totally empty of stimpaks, out of radaway/radx, addicted to psycho, ultrajet, and medx. If there was no fast travel i am pretty sure botflies could kill me on the way home.
TurboLibre
Member
Fun game, but it's so damn buggy. I entered Freeside and the framerate has slowed down to single digits. I even made my way to a casino in the strip and it's still like I'm watching a slide show. There's no action in environment either, so I don't know what's going on. This happening to anyone else on the PS3 version?
There was a fun glitch the other day though. Shot a guys head off and his whole body teleported. After walking around the wastes I ended up running into his headless body standing up with his arms spread out.
There was a fun glitch the other day though. Shot a guys head off and his whole body teleported. After walking around the wastes I ended up running into his headless body standing up with his arms spread out.
HadesGigas
Member
Yeah, glitches can be fun.
Lord_Nergal
Member
Dr. Chaos said:
Doubt it, the Burned Man sounds like he's a born again Christian, not surprising considering his
Mormon missionary/Malpais Legate
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Evil acts committed in the name of God is a total impossibility.Lord_Nergal said:
Lord_Nergal
Member
water_wendi said:
The vibe I get from the trailer/achievements is that he considers himself born again and trying to set up a new Zion. Now whether that means murdering local tribals or trying to help certain tribes defend against other 'evil' tribes, I don't know. I guess we'll just find out come tuesday.
AlimNassor
Banned
In some ways I found Fallout 3 to be better and then at times far worse though not at Brotherhood of Steel worse but still. The worse parts were the raiders, the enclave, the BoS and the Super Mutants. I didn't find the writing bad unless I compared it to Fallout 1/2, (but in that regard New Vegas wasn't the originals). Fallout 3 did a lot of things right, like the exploration and atmosphere was amazing, not stalker level but still.
Fallout New Vegas is what fallout 3 would be if they made the factions better and the story. It's not Van Buren, or Fallout 1/2 but still terrific. The writing isn't bad...it's just at times...well dry and even the humor isn't quite at the level of the originals. But, the characters, the factions and the story make the game and make it above Fallout 3.
I can't say if I'm hyped for Fallout 4 too early. I hope we get to see more of the NCR and not just have them forgotten like what happened to them after Fallout 2. i hope Bethesda learned from their mistakes in Fallout 3 to make Fallout 4 more like New Vegas. But in the end I'm happy with Bethesda for reviving the series. I don't think Fallout 3 is very good as a Fallout game but to be fair it was fun and i did spend several hundred hours on it. If Bethesda never revived Fallout, we would never get New Vegas and that would have been a shame.
Fallout New Vegas is what fallout 3 would be if they made the factions better and the story. It's not Van Buren, or Fallout 1/2 but still terrific. The writing isn't bad...it's just at times...well dry and even the humor isn't quite at the level of the originals. But, the characters, the factions and the story make the game and make it above Fallout 3.
I can't say if I'm hyped for Fallout 4 too early. I hope we get to see more of the NCR and not just have them forgotten like what happened to them after Fallout 2. i hope Bethesda learned from their mistakes in Fallout 3 to make Fallout 4 more like New Vegas. But in the end I'm happy with Bethesda for reviving the series. I don't think Fallout 3 is very good as a Fallout game but to be fair it was fun and i did spend several hundred hours on it. If Bethesda never revived Fallout, we would never get New Vegas and that would have been a shame.
I think if Bethesda lets Obsidian continue doing Fallout, then I hope they keep it split with more of a Bethesda doing the east coast while Obsidian does the west coast. Granted, I haven't actually played much of FO1, but I do agree that Bethesda probably does a better post-apocalyptic landscape, especially in the context of exploration.
What I find most people don't consider is the setting. In FO3, you are basically in the center of the former capital of the US, a superpower even at the time of the war in the FO universe. So it somewhat makes sense that it got nuked to hell and back, along with other east coast cities (though strangely enough they didn't have the sense to develop a system similar to Mr. House's). Whereas in New Vegas, people were complaining about the cowboyishness of the setting but I don't think they really grasp that in the context of where you are, it pretty much is the frontier for NCR expansion. If you were in maybe Shady Sands in the same time it would be a much different place, or even LA I'm guessing would look similar to the DC Ruins.
So thematically, the east coast is basically your traditional nuclear wasteland while the west is more of a different beast, where people emerged much earlier to try to put civilization back in order. Both have their own merits. I do agree that at least Bethesda has a great world in FO3. I mean, even the Pentagon ruins feel big, but the Strip? That was pretty tiny considering something like the Pentagon could've easily fit in there.
What I find most people don't consider is the setting. In FO3, you are basically in the center of the former capital of the US, a superpower even at the time of the war in the FO universe. So it somewhat makes sense that it got nuked to hell and back, along with other east coast cities (though strangely enough they didn't have the sense to develop a system similar to Mr. House's). Whereas in New Vegas, people were complaining about the cowboyishness of the setting but I don't think they really grasp that in the context of where you are, it pretty much is the frontier for NCR expansion. If you were in maybe Shady Sands in the same time it would be a much different place, or even LA I'm guessing would look similar to the DC Ruins.
So thematically, the east coast is basically your traditional nuclear wasteland while the west is more of a different beast, where people emerged much earlier to try to put civilization back in order. Both have their own merits. I do agree that at least Bethesda has a great world in FO3. I mean, even the Pentagon ruins feel big, but the Strip? That was pretty tiny considering something like the Pentagon could've easily fit in there.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
I'm still not sure why I didn't click with NV like I did Fallout 3. I mean, I appreciate it's a fucking great game, but I stopped at about 50 hours until the DLC came out, which was the only incentive I felt to go back to the game, and the future DLC looks like it will be the only other reason I go back to it.
I'm thinking it's for one of the following reasons:
1) NV didn't present such an interesting area. There were lots of interesting places in it, but on the whole it was less fun to explore. It never felt like going out to the random spots on the map was worth it. In Fallout 3 I was constantly finding new and amazing things, it seemed.
2) Fallout 3 was my first introduction to the universe and the tone/setting of the game had a real impact on me. It was a once in a lifetime thing, that can't be replicated, so with that sensation missing in this game maybe I was left to focus more on the game without that novelty and charm there.
In all honesty, it's probably a mixture of both.
Oblivion was also my first Elder Scrolls game, so I really hope I don't feel the same way about Skyrim, but I can't see that happening because the new engine + gameplay promises sound so good if I don't love it then I might jump off a bridge.
I'm thinking it's for one of the following reasons:
1) NV didn't present such an interesting area. There were lots of interesting places in it, but on the whole it was less fun to explore. It never felt like going out to the random spots on the map was worth it. In Fallout 3 I was constantly finding new and amazing things, it seemed.
2) Fallout 3 was my first introduction to the universe and the tone/setting of the game had a real impact on me. It was a once in a lifetime thing, that can't be replicated, so with that sensation missing in this game maybe I was left to focus more on the game without that novelty and charm there.
In all honesty, it's probably a mixture of both.
Oblivion was also my first Elder Scrolls game, so I really hope I don't feel the same way about Skyrim, but I can't see that happening because the new engine + gameplay promises sound so good if I don't love it then I might jump off a bridge.
I doubt it. His past implies he might just be repeating history in Zion.Lord_Nergal said:
Joshua Graham has always been religious and not the gentle live and let live kind of either,
he jumped right on the bandwagon to taking over, enslaving and dominating with Caesar's Legion. When he was captured by violent tribals along with Caesar, Their solution was to help them slaughter their enemies by teaching them how to use guns and real strategy.
He's an insane zealot that will probably attempt to lure alot of players into helping him gain control of Zion at the start probably with some surprisingly calm and kind words but he'll be manipulating people just like the tribals he most likely has under his control.
His fabled invincibility heard of in New Vegas where numerous people claimed him dead only for him to get back up might come from a deep seated psychotic obsession with God.
I'm not saying it's impossible that he found redemption but Obsidian for the most part have been pretty faithful to the elements and ideas they lifted from Van Buren.
Caesar's history with
the followers
the enclave
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
Lord_Nergal
Member
Got my hands on a Ranger Sequoia, definitely one of new favorites. Excited for Honest Hearts!
I decided to jump back into this a few days ago, but something weird happened and I'm not sure if it's possible to fix it at this point...
I was near the end game, doing stuff for the brotherhood. I'm an awful person so I blew the place up, then when I went back to House it passed that quest and automatically failed the next one, which had to do with the president assassination at the dam. I then was given the next quest to override something. I beat the game as normal with House and reloaded back to after blowing up the base and killed house to side with Yes Man.
He mentioned that it was a shame about what happened about the president, so the assassination already happened. Is this triggered at some point and I missed it? I never did anything regarding it, so I don't know how it happened.
He mentioned that it was a shame about what happened about the president, so the assassination already happened. Is this triggered at some point and I missed it? I never did anything regarding it, so I don't know how it happened.
I am just over 80 hours......
I have to say this game just keeps getting better and better. I still have not finished the main quest. There are so many damn things to do.
I like it more than Fallout 3 just because there are so many side quests and the characters are more interesting to me. I can't wait for the upcoming DLC.
LOVE LOVE LOVE this game.
I have to say this game just keeps getting better and better. I still have not finished the main quest. There are so many damn things to do.
I like it more than Fallout 3 just because there are so many side quests and the characters are more interesting to me. I can't wait for the upcoming DLC.
LOVE LOVE LOVE this game.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Wow awesome.Ogs said:
edit: after watching.. i would really like to see a game before Fallout 1, right after when the bombs fell. Like original survivors. Complete chaos. Like Fallout FPS mixed with Robinsons Requiem. Unbelievably violent, hungry, afraid survivors tearing at each other to survive. Early mutations and beings of pure putrescence that were too horrible to survive to even make it to the first Fallout game.
Getting back in the game right now and I'm hooked all over again.
Vault 11 was pretty awesome both atmosphere and story-wise
.
In the middle of vault 34 right now for the veronica quest and it's pretty well-designed in a annoying way, the sense of tension is pretty kick-ass, and the whole dungeon is pretty challenging, and I've actually died a number of times.
By the way a question, are there any consequences for joining the
does it lock out any factions or story paths?
Vault 11 was pretty awesome both atmosphere and story-wise
the sacrificial chamber definitely did a good job of scaring the shit out of me
In the middle of vault 34 right now for the veronica quest and it's pretty well-designed in a annoying way, the sense of tension is pretty kick-ass, and the whole dungeon is pretty challenging, and I've actually died a number of times.
By the way a question, are there any consequences for joining the
brotherhood of steel
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Youd have to get like HR Giger to do the mutants justice. Pitiful creatures that had the wicked displeasure of being one of the countless trillion of evolutionary leaps that ended in a 20-story jump. Mouths not connect to stomachs. Defective nerves that shoot off relentless, breaking pain. Minds totally shattered developing way too quickly and realizing the reality of their lot immediately after birth. Outrage at the genetic flaw fuels these mad.. men, if you could even call them that.kai3345 said:
bonesmccoy
Banned
I'm not sure, but I think it's actually their depiction of slaughtering Vault refugees. I think one NPC mentions this.
Captain Tuttle
Member
That would be great although I'd like to see a bit further along, experience the world like Harold and Richard Grey did.water_wendi said:
Question about Mr. House and actions you take toward the end.
Thanks
Okay I went to the Legion in order to get evidence that they would enslave the Kahns and ended up being forced into the weather station by Caesar. I wanted the chip back. I didn't want to give Mr. House an upper hand so I took out the base as I want the NCR to come out on top in the end. I didn't want to do what Caesar wanted anymore so I left and I have no plan to kill Mr. House. If I go back to the Lucky 38 will I be KOS for what I did? Is there a way to someone take the Independent route if I wish but not side with House?
I do have a previous save. Is it possible get Regis to convince the head Kahn to break the alliance without the evidence? So I don't end up screwing over Mr. House? Or doing anything for the Legion?
I do have a previous save. Is it possible get Regis to convince the head Kahn to break the alliance without the evidence? So I don't end up screwing over Mr. House? Or doing anything for the Legion?
Thanks
Mailman 007
Neo Member
Any idea what time the DLC will be on Steam tomorrow?
I can't wait!
I can't wait!
Mailman 007
Neo Member
Thanks!hemtae said:
I've got my character all prepared for tomorrow..