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[Apathy]

I love how some people are trying to down play the very real possibility that he was a closeted gay man that had internal struggles coming to terms with it and instead going with the less likely long con of years of pretending to be gay just to scope out a club, and being on hook up apps, telling a classmates years and years ago he had romantic feelings for him.

 

[akira28]

The San Bernardino couple probably never had contact with anyone from ISIS, yet they were radicalized. We live in the internet age, you can get radicalized right from your bedroom.

you can self-radicalize yes. But that doesn't come with an affiliation to ISIL.

it sounds like he was going to do his act and wanted to tie it in to the greater issue, so he informed the cops of his 'radicalization'.

 

[Pastry]

That was my reaction, too..until I heard from one account that he was a regular at the club for 3 years.

3 years is an awfully long time.

You don't scout out a place for three years. That's a regular.

 

[ElFly]

unless you have pictures of mateen getting fucked in the ass and blowing another dude while holding a handwritten sign saying "i am having sex with men because i am gay and like it" i don't think down will be satisfied

He could be scouting them.

 

[Meier]

The San Bernardino couple probably never had contact with anyone from ISIS, yet they were radicalized.

We live in the internet age, you can get radicalized right from your bedroom.

The FBI did say from checking his internet history that he had consumed a lot of jihadist propaganda including many beheadings.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Also pretty sure ISIS doesn't have a phone-in subscription hotline. And PRETTY fuckin sure that number wouldn't be listed as '911'.

Reminds me of the sick dude who shot the police officers in NY and claimed it was for the BLM movement on social media.

A lot of mentally ill people, especially those with social disorders, are going to want to make themselves feel that their part of a group or movement even if it has nothing to do with them or their true motives.

 

[jm89]

I love how some people are trying to down play the very real possibility that he was a closeted gay man that had internal struggles coming to terms with it and instead going with the less likely long con of years of pretending to be gay just to scope out a club, and being on hook up apps, telling a classmates years and years ago he had romantic feelings for him.

It doesn't fit they're agenda so they downplay it.

 

[Malvolio]

Trying to figure out "why" seems like a fool's errand with him. I get the feeling people with an agenda will have more invested in "why" than he did.

 

[Ray Wonder]

Showing romantic interest in a man is "doing something gay."

You can be a gay virgin.

It's only gay if you don't have ulterior motives, and that's real hard to tell.

 

[Kusagari]

I wouldn't be surprised if him associating himself with various terrorist groups was an attempt at displaying masculinity.

 

[Umibozu]

Can I also add that a lot of Afghans and Pathans are closet homosexuals or have had voluntary/involuntary homosexual experiences? I know because I've seen it.

Wtf is this shit?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Wtf is this shit?

It's true.

 

[Gnilres]

So by nearly all accounts, he was a non-religious, homosexual man with more ties to the gay community of Orlando than any form of radical Islam.

Could it be a possibility that he hated Islam and declared his association with ISIS, al Qaeda etc to make others hate Islam? This is a legitimate question and I think it makes more sense than "he was a radical and scoping the place out for 3 years".

 

[Joni]

So by nearly all accounts, he was a non-religious, homosexual man with more ties to the gay community of Orlando than any form of radical Islam.

Could it be a possibility that he hated Islam and declared his association with ISIS, al Qaeda etc to make others hate Islam? This is a legitimate question and I think it makes more sense than "he was a radical and scoping the place out for 3 years".

Well, he was still radicalized enough to be investigated twice by the FBI. And loners are typically what they appeal to.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

It's true.

I mean, do you have actual, non-anecdotal evidence?

 

[Umibozu]

It's true.

I'm afghan-canadian, and your statement is coming off as anecdotal bullshit.
It's an unnecessary generalisation.

 

[formasymphonic]

Self-loather. Tried to deny his orientation by forcing his inner turmoil and disgust on the rest of the community who were happy and secure in who they were.

The more I hear about it, the more it begins to make sense of how he ended up going down this road. Just such a fucking tragedy that so many people had to die and get hurt just because a guy couldn't accept who he was.

 

[knavish]

Reminds me of all those politicians being hard on gay rights getting caught with "rent boys" and cruising in parks and bathrooms and stuff.

so basically the Conservative party in the UK

 

[gutter_trash]

religion doesn't have to be the sole factor for his father's homophobia.

Many Middle-Eastern and Eastern cultures, regardless of religion, still have a warped sense of ''Family Honor'' bullshit to they point that fathers kill their own daughters for the most minor signs of disobedience.

Example: the Shafia family in Canada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders

 

[drtomoe123]

Shadows are real and so are their consequences.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

So by nearly all accounts, he was a non-religious, homosexual man with more ties to the gay community of Orlando than any form of radical Islam.

Could it be a possibility that he hated Islam and declared his association with ISIS, al Qaeda etc to make others hate Islam? This is a legitimate question and I think it makes more sense than "he was a radical and scoping the place out for 3 years".

I think it's more probable he was gay (or bi at least) and didn't have a healthy avenue to talk about or come to terms with his sexuality. He (according to his ex-wife) may have been bipolar as well and that being in a religious upbringing caused a lot of pressure and self hate to remain closeted and "show" he wasn't gay. He pledged to 3 different, at odds groups so his grip on terror groups was topical at best.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

It doesn't fit they're agenda so they downplay it.

Why would someone want to downplay it?

Genuinely curious.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I mean, do you have actual, non-anecdotal evidence?

I guess I don't have any solid evidence other than my childhood experiences, knowing closet homosexuals and loads of cases of men fucking boys. That and countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan are known for closet homosexuals who are afraid to come out due to being in religious countries. Sure, it may not apply to him since he wasn't born in Afghanistan, but its quite known about homosexuality of folks in Western Pakistan and Afghanistan. Maybe its why most homosexual jokes in Pakistan are about Pathans and Afghans? A strict stereotype but it exists.

I'm afghan-canadian, and your statement is coming off as anecdotal bullshit.
It's an unnecessary generalisation.

Sorry for generalisation. Like I said, it's from personal experiences and I don't want to generalize, but it exists.

EDIT: I looked it up for you guys, before I get more hate over my comments.

An unclassified study from a military research unit in southern Afghanistan details how homosexual behavior is unusually common among men in the large ethnic group known as Pashtuns -- though they seem to be in complete denial about it.

Pashtun men commonly have sex with other men, admire other men physically, have sexual relationships with boys and shun women both socially and sexually -- yet they completely reject the label of "homosexual." The research was conducted as part of a longstanding effort to better understand Afghan culture and improve Western interaction with the local people.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/28/afghan-men-struggle-sexual-identity-study-finds.html

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/brinkley/article/Afghanistan-s-dirty-little-secret-3176762.php

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/10/28/bacha-bazi-an-afghan-tragedy/

Read Zaher's story and tell me it doesn't sound like another tragedy waiting to happen:
https://www.thestar.com/news/insigh...an_man_speaks_out_on_deep_cultural_taboo.html

 

[lenovox1]

So by nearly all accounts, he was a non-religious, homosexual man with more ties to the gay community of Orlando than any form of radical Islam.

Could it be a possibility that he hated Islam and declared his association with ISIS, al Qaeda etc to make others hate Islam? This is a legitimate question and I think it makes more sense than "he was a radical and scoping the place out for 3 years".

We don't know that he was non-religious. His father certainly thought his son was religious.

This is a man that traveled 100 miles out of the way in order to engage with the gay community. He most certainly led a double life.

 

[lenovox1]

It doesn't fit they're agenda so they downplay it.

Someone like DOWN doesn't have an agenda. But this is new information based on circumstantial evidence that turns the motives and all details surrounding the case COMPLETELY upside down.

Give him and others time to process and come to their own conclusions, man.

 

[Pizoxuat]

So by nearly all accounts, he was a non-religious, homosexual man with more ties to the gay community of Orlando than any form of radical Islam.

Could it be a possibility that he hated Islam and declared his association with ISIS, al Qaeda etc to make others hate Islam? This is a legitimate question and I think it makes more sense than "he was a radical and scoping the place out for 3 years".

I think it's more likely that he called 911 to declare for ISIS to give an obvious motive in hopes that people wouldn't dig too deep and discover anything else, and because watching their acts of violence and their violent rhetoric was inspirational to him.

 

[CloudyTuba]

That was my reaction, too..until I heard from one account that he was a regular at the club for 3 years.

3 years is an awfully long time.

Just scoping it out dude. "Research."
Very...thorough...research.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I feel that Occam's razor is in play here.

For me at least, its far easier to believe he was a deeply repressed gay man who snapped than a methodical criminal mastermind who spent years scoping out clubs and people, waiting for the perfect chance to strike.

 

[GameAddict411]

many Middle-Eastern cultures have stricto sense of ''honor'' in quotation marks where any sign of a woman disobeying or a son having gay tendancies are considered to be ''dishonerable''

in Canada, a Afghan Father and sons killed almost all the females in their family (wife, daughters) out of some bullshit ''honnor'' code crap. They were found guilty).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shafia_family_murders

This Omar closet guy probably was gay and has a super intolerant ultra-conservative Father who hated gays. Out of some bullshit sense of ''honor'' probably decided to kill gays to prove that he wasn't gay. (now technology and witness accounts are showing that he in fact was)

His father was a hateful person, he should be charged as accessory IMO

I wouldn't be surprised if this was true. I think the dad should be investigated. He probably planted that hate to begin with.

 

[perfectchaos007]

I don't think an extreme homophobe having hidden homoseuxal desires would be that unexpected.

Why?

Well some radical forms of Islam deeply despise homosexuality. If he was raised to hate the idea of homosexuality only to find out after battling what he couldn't control that he himself was homosexual, it's possible to see how that struggle coupled with a mental illness from a mentally disturbed individual could cause this murderous rampage he went on. I'm interested to see what the FBI uncovers.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Just scoping it out dude. "Research."
Very...thorough...research.

I'm going with oppressive climate and upbringing and him having difficulty reconciling. Kinda like Cosby yelling at people for being filth, flarm, filth, yet raping women for 30+ years.

Some people just never become self reflective. It's dangerous.

 

[RastaMentality]

Makes more sense than him being driven solely by ISIS. Those British men in 2014 found guilty of terrorist charges falsely used Islam as justification too.

 

[Volimar]

Well some radical forms of Islam deeply despise homosexuality. If he was raised to hate the idea of homosexuality only to find out after battling what he couldn't control that he himself was homosexual, it's possible to see how that struggle coupled with a mental illness from a mentally disturbed individual could cause this murderous rampage he went on. I'm interested to see what the FBI uncovers.

This.

Though there's kind of a distasteful way people on social media are starting to talk regarding the "he was secretly gay" theory. It's hard to describe, like a tone, like they're pointing and laughing, and I don't think the way they're doing it is very nice to homosexuals. I mean, maybe they're trying to shame him after the fact, but it comes off pretty tactless given the deaths... I'm probably not making any sense.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

The takeaway message here, if this is true, is how damaging homophobia can be and how forcing people to suppress their desires can lead to negative consequences, not just through self-harm but violent reprisals as well.

But I know the majority of less-intelligent folks in this country are gonna simply see this as "gays are bad" and continuing to push an anti-LGBT rhetoric without seeking to understand the cause-and-effect of what appears to possibly be a tragedy stemming from self-hate.

Stuff like this, like when you find out a congressman is secretly closeted, is always hard for me to digest---there's definitely a sense of irony here and you want to think the person got their just desserts for turning on their own group, but at the same time I think there's sympathy for them considering there are numerous reasons they felt they had to hide and outright attack their sexual identity. Now in this case there's obviously far less sympathy considering the actions the individual took are irreversible, you can argue the anti-gay rhetoric politicians can spew can be harmful as well but I think in that case there's room for them to have a change of heart and work to fix their mistakes, but I do think there's an issue with people in the closet being shamed for hiding it considering the current climate isn't all that LGBT-friendly.

 

[Saint Gregory]

This.

Though there's kind of a distasteful way people on social media are starting to talk regarding the "he was secretly gay" theory. It's hard to describe, like a tone, like they're pointing and laughing, and I don't think the way they're doing it is very nice to homosexuals. I mean, maybe they're trying to shame him after the fact, but it comes off pretty tactless given the deaths... I'm probably not making any sense.

No, you're making sense. I feel like the victims in this attack were forgotten almost immediately after the race of the perpetrator was released.

 

[davepoobond]

Not sure it makes sense to join a gay dating app to scope out where gay bars are at considering google exists.

There might be another side to this, racial or looking for something specific in the context

 

[beast786]

I guess I don't have any solid evidence other than my childhood experiences, knowing closet homosexuals and loads of cases of men fucking boys. That and countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan are known for closet homosexuals who are afraid to come out due to being in religious countries. Sure, it may not apply to him since he wasn't born in Afghanistan, but its quite known about homosexuality of folks in Western Pakistan and Afghanistan. Maybe its why most homosexual jokes in Pakistan are about Pathans and Afghans? A strict stereotype but it exists.



Sorry for generalisation. Like I said, it's from personal experiences and I don't want to generalize, but it exists.

EDIT: I looked it up for you guys, before I get more hate over my comments.



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/28/afghan-men-struggle-sexual-identity-study-finds.html

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/brinkley/article/Afghanistan-s-dirty-little-secret-3176762.php

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/10/28/bacha-bazi-an-afghan-tragedy/

Read Zaher's story and tell me it doesn't sound like another tragedy waiting to happen:
https://www.thestar.com/news/insigh...an_man_speaks_out_on_deep_cultural_taboo.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

I knew about the above

 

[antonz]

Seems like his is all about trying to remove his radicalized beliefs from the event so it can just be blamed on closeted self hating gay man.

The only person who repeatedly says he was not religious is his father who we already know is full of shit. Former co-workers say he would bring his prayer mat to work and pray multiple times a day, celebrated the 9/11 attacks as they occurred in high school etc.
Hell his current wife potentially could face charges based on information she is giving as she has admitted to authorities that he was scouting out a number of locations to attack including Disney World and she said nothing to anyone.

 

[gofreak]

Sounds a lot like he was often scoping this place out rather than interested in it for any other reason.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...w&hootPostID=1631d0b4632c0a40025001e8aec55bcf

Heck, his wife even drove him there knowing he was scoping it out.

 

[timetokill]

Yeah, sounds to me like there's a good chance he was gay, in a gay-intolerant religion or family, and possibly took part in some gay activity and lost it in a time of extreme self-hatred. Decided to kill as many people at the club as he could, either from rejection or because they knew his tastes, and called 911 to make it sound Islamist so he could have cover and not have his family or Allah think he was gay.

It just sounds more likely than casing a place for that long. But who knows. I'm sure more info will come out.

 

[Kusagari]

Seems like his is all about trying to remove his radicalized beliefs from the event so it can just be blamed on closeted self hating gay man.

The only person who repeatedly says he was not religious is his father who we already know is full of shit. Former co-workers say he would bring his prayer mat to work and pray multiple times a day, celebrated the 9/11 attacks as they occurred in high school etc.
Hell his current wife potentially could face charges based on information she is giving as she has admitted to authorities that he was scouting out a number of locations to attack including Disney World and she said nothing to anyone.

The ex-wife also said he wasn't particularly religious.

 

[GaimeGuy]

he pledged himself to ISIS, al qaeda, and hezbollah on the same call

to say that his religious politics were confused would be an understatement

It almost sounds like he was using these groups as a cover up of his real motivations.

 

[darscot]

There is nothing more dangerous than a person that can not accept who they are. This whole fucked up bullshit society puts on sexuality is the root of this type of evil. It's some weird fucked up cycle that you can't accept yourself and it turns into hatred for people that are they same as you. Then you persecute them and they can't accept themselves. The more people come out and accept who they are they more the cycle is broken. I'm a straight white guy and my generation has no great conflict, no great oppression. One day we are going to look back at this time and the true heros,the people that overcome oppression, rise up and set the example of how the world should be are going to be the LGBT. It' horrific that this dude could not accept who he was, but all this islamic bullshit is just another part of his cover, another way for him to hide the part of himself that he hated. Every fucking idiot that persecutes and spouts religious hatred and oppression towards the LGBT shares in this tragedy.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

The report I read yesterday said that he was going to gay clubs and tried to start a romantic relationship with one of the guys he was in training with like ten years ago.

That's some pretty long term planning.

Yea I heard this on CBC this morning too

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Sounds a lot like he was often scoping this place out rather than interested in it for any other reason.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...w&hootPostID=1631d0b4632c0a40025001e8aec55bcf

Heck, his wife even drove him there knowing he was scoping it out.

You have people saying he went there for years. He could have lied to his wife saying he wanted to "scope it out" while already being very familiar with it.

 

[lenovox1]

Yeah, sounds to me like there's a good chance he was gay, in a gay-intolerant religion or family, and possibly took part in some gay activity and lost it in a time of extreme self-hatred. Decided to kill as many people at the club as he could, either from rejection or because they knew his tastes, and called 911 to make it sound Islamist so he could have cover and not have his family or Allah think he was gay.

It just sounds more likely than casing a place for that long. But who knows. I'm sure more info will come out.

Read above. This wasn't a crime of passion.

I'm going with a little from column A and a little from column B. He wasn't hitting on dudes, going to gay clubs well outside his hometown for 3 years and using Grindr, Jack'd and Adam4Adam because he wanted to be an inside operative.

He also didn't suddenly, over the course of a short period of time, decide that he was going to buy an AR-15 and kill a group of innocent people.

This is something that very well could have taken years to work up to doing. This whole plot could something he was using to cover his dick loving ways for all we know.

 

[DOWN]

Sounds a lot like he was often scoping this place out rather than interested in it for any other reason.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...w&hootPostID=1631d0b4632c0a40025001e8aec55bcf

Heck, his wife even drove him there knowing he was scoping it out.

Uh

Omar Mateen's current wife, Noor, told the FBI she was with him when he bought ammunition and a holster, several officials familiar with the case said. She told the FBI that she once drove him to the gay nightclub, Pulse, because he wanted to scope it out.

 

[Earthstrike]

So by nearly all accounts, he was a non-religious, homosexual man with more ties to the gay community of Orlando than any form of radical Islam.

Could it be a possibility that he hated Islam and declared his association with ISIS, al Qaeda etc to make others hate Islam? This is a legitimate question and I think it makes more sense than "he was a radical and scoping the place out for 3 years".

No, because then the killings don't make sense. He wouldn't want to actually kill people if he hated islam and accepted himself for who he was.

 

[astroturfing]

I think it's more probable he was gay (or bi at least) and didn't have a healthy avenue to talk about or come to terms with his sexuality. He (according to his ex-wife) may have been bipolar as well and that being in a religious upbringing caused a lot of pressure and self hate to remain closeted and "show" he wasn't gay. He pledged to 3 different, at odds groups so his grip on terror groups was topical at best.

yeah.. the pressure and mental issues together probably made him lose his mind, and any remaining self-control along with that. i would bet anything that his brain didn't work properly at the end, he was probably hearing voices telling him to kill etc.

 

[MickeyPhree]

She knew something bad might happen yet did nothing to alert the authorities....hope there's a cell waiting for her in the future.