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[Plywood]

He was pulling the tricks to show how good he is while screwing many baby faces.

That's the part where I disagree. The "movez", as some say, are just a added bonus, making the bad guy look good and worthy of the title.

No one's gonna boo the guy that looks good doing his shit. It's why Brock gets cheered for suplexing dudes across the ring, why Cesaro got cheered when he did the giant swing, why Randy got cheered for RKO's outta nowhere, etc, etc. Rollins best heel move was his least flippy, the curbstomp. Simple, effective and disrespectful.

EDIT: I don't agree with the line of thinking that things should be black and white, as, in my opinion, grey works very well and is far more exciting. Heels don't need to not impress or run from confrontation, and faces don't need be 100% clean or overcome all odds.

WWE basically does nothing but black and white booking.

 

[Recall]

There is no such thing as faces and heels, the veil has been removed.

It's about is someone predictable or unpredictable.

Modern sports entertainment tries to shoe horn itself into a mould that has long since been shattered and instead of adapting it instead persists to try and fit the mould regardless of how broken it really is. Fans included.

 

[slightconfuse]

 

[Verendus]

I want Barack vs. Reigns 2.0. I don't even care if it's not Wrasslin'Mania now. I'll take Summerslam or Extreme Rules. One goddamn day. I will have my victory.

 

[Oersted]

The heel is supposed to make you hate him. Seth wrestled like he was back in ROH and pulling out all of the tricks to make the crowd like him, as if wrestling was a neutral gymnastics performance and not hero/villain driven storytelling.

Someone should have given Austin, Brock and New Day that memo.

 

[Caderfix]

No one's gonna boo the guy that looks good doing his shit. It's why Brock gets cheered for suplexing dudes across the ring, why Cesaro got cheered when he did the giant swing, why Randy got cheered for RKO's outta nowhere, etc, etc. Rollins best heel move was his least flippy, the curbstomp. Simple, effective and disrespectful.

We'll, then I think this is where I'll have to agree to disagree, as I don't think the bad guy should necessarily be booed. Many villains are far more likable and cool than heroes, to me at least.

WWE basically does nothing but black and white booking.

And that is my biggest issue with the company. I get that when your doing sporadic shows for different crowds without being able to tell the whole trajectory of the rivalry you need to make things black and white so people will know who's the good guy and who's the bad guy, but when you have multiple hours of TV every week showing storylines, promos and matches, things shouldn't be the same boring black and white we've all seen throughout the years.

There is no such thing as faces and heels, the veil has been removed.

It's about is someone predictable or unpredictable.

Modern sports entertainment tries to shoe horn itself into a mould that has long since been shattered and instead of adapting it instead persists to try and fit the mould regardless of how broken it really is. Fans included.

This is perfect, Recall.

 

[hertog]

Only 3 people ever lost the WWE WHC cleanly.

Cena
Shaemus
Reigns.

The rock?

 

[DMczaf]

Seth putting on a show went great along with his character.

He was suppose to be The Future. The Man.

He still is. ;_;

 

[shanafan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7DL16auN2o

New Day rocking out to Seth Rollins theme song. Gold.

 

[funkystudent]

Only 3 people ever lost the WWE WHC cleanly.

Cena
Shaemus
Reigns.

Now that I think about it we have only had like 6 WWE WHC champs.

We had...

Randy.
Bryan.
Cena
Brock
Shaemus
Reigns

Am I missing anyone?

edit.

Oh... I am missing THE CURRENT CHAMPION. lol.

 

[Caderfix]

He was suppose to be The Future. The Man.

Sadly the booking and storyline were so bad that when I read the above my brain goes "The Ultimate Warrior, Andre the Giant, Bruno Sammartino..."

But, yeah, Rollins is awesome.

 

[slightconfuse]

Seth is Mid 90s HBK minus the coke

 

[Verendus]

Wrasslin'Mania 32 missing so many superstars is only going to make everyone appreciate next year even more. Not only will we have the usual suspects back, we may even get The Rock and Big Daddy Dave Batista.

It's all part of the plan.

 

[sf2fanatic]

Only 3 people ever lost the WWE WHC cleanly.

Cena
Sheamus
Reigns.

Damn that's all? WWE doesn't like people losing clean anymore.

 

[UberTag]

There is close to zero creative energy on the main roster. Tyler Breeze's gimmick could draw super heat, I mean look at some of the most hated/controversial celebrities out there. Who wouldn't want to see a facsimile of Justin Bieber/Zayn Malik get the shit kicked out of them? Bieber is one of life's biggest heels right now.

Just have Breeze behave like an insufferable spoof of Frankie Grande and everyone would want to see him get beat up.

Failing that... hire Frankie Grande. And beat him up.

 

[Zach]

Seth is Mid 90s HBK minus the coke

Is he? Granted, I've only seen his PPV matches, but I don't see the storytelling. The athletic ability, sure.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

The rock?

That was the pre-unification WWE Championship.

 

[Plywood]

We'll, then I think this is where I'll have to agree to disagree, as I don't think the bad guy should necessarily be booed. Many villains are far more likable and cool than heroes, to me at least.

Caderfix I like your avatar so I'm not gonna grill you. We'll just do as you said and agree to disagree.

 

[Heroman]

Wrasslin'Mania 32 missing so many superstars is only going to make everyone appreciate next year even more. Not only will we have the usual suspects back, we may even get The Rock and Big Daddy Dave Batista.

It's all part of the plan.

Who wants a Batista match in 2016?

 

[Oersted]

There are 4 easy ways to get heel-heat:

1. Get the push besides others being more over (Reigns)

2. Get the push due to looks and/or family (Reigns/Eva)

3. Be the foreigner/beat up the local (hometowns/home countries)

4. Be Miz

 

[sf2fanatic]

Who wants a Batista match in 2016?

Better than watching a Shoe, Rowan, & Brie every week match. I'm sorry, DBry needs to help Brie on her moveset

 

[Cagey]

There are 4 easy ways to get heel-heat:

1. Get the push besides others being more over (Reigns)

2. Get the push due to looks and/or family (Reigns/Eva)

3. Be the foreigner/beat up the local (hometowns/home countries)

4. Be Miz

The first two are smark heat.

The third is a staple of being a heel.

The fourth is a combo of smark heat, his history, and he's always a heel anyway.

At least the third one is a legitimate character-driven means of getting a crowd to dislike you.

 

[Verendus]

Who wants a Batista match in 2016?

 

[Caderfix]

Caderfix I like your avatar so I'm not gonna grill you. We'll just do as you said and agree to disagree.

This is an internet forum where people say what they think about stuff. Feel free to "grill" me.

They're fighting for a belt, the heels don't murder anyone and it's all part of a story, I don't see why we should go with "boo this this guy and cheer for the other guy" instead of being able to simply pick sides.

If you want to say how wrong I am, go nuts.

 

[Striker]

They're fighting for a belt, the heels don't murder anyone and it's all part of a story, I don't see why we should go with "boo this this guy and cheer for the other guy" instead of being able to simply pick sides..

What's the story?

Let's call this good guy Bill. The bad guy is Steve. Why does Bill want to fight Steve? Is Steve the aggressor? I mean, it's wrestling, not MMA or pro sports. As you said, there's a story. With these stories, there's an underlying character behind each person (or supposed to be, anyways). If it is done correctly, fans will boo the appropriate person.

 

[Oersted]

The first two are smark heat.

The third is a staple of being a heel.

The fourth is a combo of smark heat, his history, and he's always a heel anyway.

At least the third one is a legitimate character-driven means of getting a crowd to dislike you.

You forget a big factor.

That Miz face.

 

[Zach]

What a clown.

 

[slightconfuse]

You guys would love Lucha Underground

 

[Zach]

You guys would love Lucha Underground

I will watch it when it's on Netflix/Amazon Prime never.

 

[DMczaf]

Is it really that hard for Lucha Underground to get on Netflix, Hulu or Amazon Prime?

 

[Caderfix]

What's the story?

Let's call this good guy Bill. The bad guy is Steve. Why does Bill want to fight Steve? Is Steve the aggressor? I mean, it's wrestling, not MMA or pro sports. As you said, there's a story. With these stories, there's an underlying character behind each person (or supposed to be, anyways). If it is done correctly, fans will boo the appropriate person.

Pentagon Jr is a crazy dude that breaks people's arms as a ritual to his master, and tried to do so to defenseless people. He's written well, does crazy offense and is a terrible being, and I still cheer for him. In a story it is ok to cheer for the bad guy, that doesn't make him any less of a villain, just a good character.

 

[slightconfuse]

 

[Recall]

Pentagon Jr is a crazy dude that breaks people's arms as a ritual to his master, and tried to do so to defenseless people. He's written well, does crazy offense and is a terrible being, and I still cheer for him. In a story it is ok to cheer for the bad guy, that doesn't make him any less of a villain, just a good character.

You cheer him as he is entertaining. Face/heel means nothing.

 

[Heel]

I respect Caderfix's right to enjoy a well-performed baddie in the context that most of us realize that wrestling is not real.

 

[DMczaf]

What if wrestling was real?

 

[Heel]

What if wrestling was real?

...they've been hiding the truth all this time?

 

[RBH]

Watching Smackdown only to see AJ vs. Miz tonight.

 

[Colocho]

What if wrestling was real?

What if it wasn't?

 

[Anth0ny]

Watching Smackdown only to see AJ vs. Miz tonight.

will watch the youtube version just to hear mauro and heel king

 

[Plywood]

This is an internet forum where people say what they think about stuff. Feel free to "grill" me.

They're fighting for a belt, the heels don't murder anyone and it's all part of a story, I don't see why we should go with "boo this this guy and cheer for the other guy" instead of being able to simply pick sides.

If you want to say how wrong I am, go nuts.

I wrote up a bigger post, but I felt like I was going on a tangent.

I think a large part of the reason why people don't get reactions is heels simply failing to generate heat. If they aren't doing things that make people dislike them then they won't get booed and people won't tune in to finally see when they get what they had coming to them. Now I'm not saying heel's should be booed for every single they do, but their job shouldn't be to win the crowd to their side. A heel should be taunting, mocking, calculating(working a bodypart for example) and sure they could be prideful and bust out a cool move, but only at the right times like when they believe they have the upperhand. It makes no sense for them to try and win the crowd over because that's the faces job. I know you feel there should be shades of grey, but that's only really effective at the right times. See: Shield vs The Wyatts.


And to be clear there's nothing wrong with liking the bad guy, but their wrestling psychology should reflect their character.

 

[shanafan]

Oh nice, I work in Dearborn. Might have to check out ROH.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Is it really that hard for Lucha Underground to get on Netflix, Hulu or Amazon Prime?

Hulu's about to die, friend

The second they sign that Time Warner deal and end their next-day streaming, everybody's abandoning that sub ship

 

[Heroman]

What if wrestling was real?

Wait, wrestling is fake?

 

[serenewarfare]

Was watching Boots' great Okada/Tanahashi promo package and was inspired with a Wrestlemania OT title.

Wrestlemania 32 |OT| Have You Ever Seen the Reigns?

 

[Verendus]

I wrote up a bigger post, but I felt like I was going on a tangent.

I think a large part of the reason why people don't get reactions is heels simply failing to generate heat. If they aren't doing things that make people dislike them then they won't get booed and people won't tune in to finally see when they get what they had coming to them. Now I'm not saying heel's should be booed for every single they do, but their job shouldn't be to win the crowd to their side. A heel should be taunting, mocking, calculating(working a bodypart for example) and sure they could be prideful and bust out a cool move, but only at the right times like when they believe they have the upperhand. It makes no sense for them to try and win the crowd over because that's the faces job. I know you feel there should be shades of grey, but that's only really effective at the right times. See: Shield vs The Wyatts.


And to be clear there's nothing wrong with liking the bad guy, but their wrestling psychology should reflect their character.

I agree with this.

Not enough character work in the ring these days. That's why most of these wrestlers suck. You've got Owens, Reigns, and that's about it on the singles roster. I'd say Ambrose but he's become a caricature.

 

[Plywood]

I agree with this.

Not enough character work in the ring these days. That's why most of these wrestlers suck. You've got Owens, Reigns, and that's about it on the singles roster. I'd say Ambrose but he's become a caricature.

Wacky line!

 

[Cagey]

Was watching Boots' great Okada/Tanahashi promo package and was inspired with a Wrestlemania OT title.

Wrestlemania 32 |OT| Have You Ever Seen the Reigns?

Let me edit that for you to capture the feelings of the internet.

Wrestlemania 32 |OT| I Can't Stand the Reigns

 

[Pikma]

I agree with this.

Not enough character work in the ring these days. That's why most of these wrestlers suck. You've got Owens, Reigns, and that's about it on the singles roster. I'd say Ambrose but he's become a caricature.

Wait what? Since when does Reigns do character work in the ring?

 

[Ithil]

The first two are smark heat.

The third is a staple of being a heel.

The fourth is a combo of smark heat, his history, and he's always a heel anyway.

At least the third one is a legitimate character-driven means of getting a crowd to dislike you.

Damn that smarky Birmingham, Alabama crowd. They're just so smarky and also smarky.

 

[Kaiterra]

What a guy like Seth should do is bust out the athletic flippy dippy shit at times when it's opportunistic to do so, and then other times, he should tease those moves, then not do them.