Ecto311
Member
Well his post was about something directed at you and you attacked someone totally unrelated to this. I have been banned for less offensive shit than what you said.
Female inmates sterilized in California prisons without approval
- Thread starter Mumei
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Well his post was about something directed at you and you attacked someone totally unrelated to this. I have been banned for less offensive shit than what you said.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Sounds pretty horrible. But not surprised hearing new horror stories from US prisons.
No there are not. Earth could easily have 20 billion or more people. All a matter of technology.
No there are not. Earth could easily have 20 billion or more people. All a matter of technology.
Spring-Loaded
Member
You brought up your being vegan for no reason, he made an innocuous comment about it, you poke fun at a dead man who has nothing to do with the discussion.
Yep, from the same state that a certain other country modeled their eugenics program on, no less.
Pressure people into being sterilize because they committed a crime. Meanwhile, women with no children not in jail get passed from doctor after doctor who keep denying them getting their tubes tied "just in case a man wants a child with you".
In both cases, people in positions of power are trying to control what a woman wants to do with her own goddamn uterus.
Hello, you must be the new speculawyer. I'm ronito. Nice to meet you.
Real nice.
So fuck you, I've got mine? A traditional conservative view on the topic. Why not instead have spent that money on attempting to rehabilite these people and educate them instead of simply having them rot in jail? Oh right sorry, that's to much money spent on these people. Just remove them from humanity.
A man has to step up when his vitamin levels are questioned,
No you're not, you're fighting a welfare system by shitting on the people that rely on it. State sterilization like this is slashing one of the rights we have, the right to have kids. You're ok with that being taken away from some people for the good of whatever?
That's pretty sick.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Poking fun at a dead person is not as bad as poking fun at a living person though:
Only one is capable of being insulted.
Is this a joke? Only one can fight back too.
speculawyer
Member
If I am convicted and already have 5 kids that the state has to pay to raise then yes, go ahead and snip me.
And you don't get thrown into jail for a car accident if you are 'innocent' or merely negligent. You have to at least be reckless.
JeTmAn81
Member
This is not okay.
It wasn't "for no reason", I brought up being vegan because there are already 7 billion people on this planet and the resources required to support them is causing all sorts of environmental problems (I won't get into the stats regarding water/land/grain etc. needed to sustain an animal-based diet in the developed world, anyone who cares can look it up for themselves), and eventually that number will rise to 20 billion, and that will cause even more problems (regardless of the inevitable technological advancements, Gemüsepizza).
He didn't make an innocuous comment, he made a personal health-related comment relating to my diet (funny how my initial comment was "for no reason" whereas his was "innocuous"... I would switch the labels on those), and my point was that he probably doesn't do that when people who eat meat have health problems, which in real life (heart, cancer, diabetes, etc.) happens far more than "lol sickly looking vegans"...
All punishments should be reversible. Removing someone's ability to reproduce based on their history is eugenics, and has been going on for quite a while (a bunch of black women were sterilized against their will in the 60s and 70s while undergoing procedures), and its not excusable at any level.
Only guilty people can be thrown in jail? This is a new one. You can spend as year or more in jail before you're even tried, let alone convicted. And this is still assuming the justice system is perfect and only convicts guilty people, which it is not.
You're always thinking outside the box.
Exr
Member
Tasteless.
This is very dark, it shouldnt be up to the staff to decide this. The greater problem of how we view prisioners as a whole contributes to the dehumanizing treatment they recieve.
Fuck them if the women were coerced into having the pomeroy, and its a real shame to see people here defending this at some level.
I always get a kick when someone here starts talking about overpopulation because its usually followed by some horrid comment straight out of stormfront. bunch of hypocrites, please dont act like you have the intelectual maturity to care about the future of the planet when you cant even care about basic human rights of what you obviously see as your "lesser".
Edit: Ugh, you too speculawyer, what a shame.
I always get a kick when someone here starts talking about overpopulation because its usually followed by some horrid comment straight out of stormfront. bunch of hypocrites, please dont act like you have the intelectual maturity to care about the future of the planet when you cant even care about basic human rights of what you obviously see as your "lesser".
Edit: Ugh, you too speculawyer, what a shame.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It bothers/hurts the ones who cared about them. If someone has an "in memorandum" avatar they clearly care and it's worse than having someone mention your vitamin levels on response to something you brought up at random.
speculawyer
Member
No, I am NOT shitting on the people who rely on it . . . the kids. I'm shitting on the criminal who is creating a stream of new people that rely on it. That is a big difference even if you are unable to see it.
Rights come with responsibility. If you act very irresponsibility, you can lose your rights. People get thrown into prison, people lose their rights to own guns, people lose their rights to vote . . . and if you pump out a bunch of kids that become dependent on the state and you commit crimes, I have no problem with you losing your right to have more kids.
And those other post-incarceration punishments are often viewed as wrong even though they're on the books.. but they're also reversible if we change our mind later. We can let someone vote again. We can let someone purchase a gun again. If we sterilize someone after they spent 5 months in the slammer for stealing a TV, we can't undo that.
And then DNA evidence proves the witnesses testimony was wrong, so the person was completely innocent? Oh boy.
The all rely on the state. The kids and the guardians.
Wouldn't the solution be to stop the welfare coming in after a set amount, and not co-erce those breaking arbitrary rules into sterilization?
It's really scary that people like you exist.
The problem with that argument is that it's permanent. What's to say a 25 year old convict couldn't be a good mom at 45?
ElectricThunder
Member
Some savage shit indeed---I hope Maher's panel touches on this as it is beyond insane to happen anywhere in the US, but perhaps in some respects California moreso.
Eugenics is a shameful spectre we were supposed to have left behind decades ago---leave it to some assholes to yet again want to return to a selectively fictitious past if not harbor it in secret all the while.
Eugenics is a shameful spectre we were supposed to have left behind decades ago---leave it to some assholes to yet again want to return to a selectively fictitious past if not harbor it in secret all the while.
Devolution
Member
You're talking about guns and voting, we're talking about sterilizing people like animals.
speculawyer
Member
No . . . it is fuck you, you've already taken MORE than your share and you are not pulling your weight, so no more ability for you to take even more.
It's like some people forget that part of Incarceration is rehabilitation too. We can't exactly do that if we start depriving people of stuff permanently. :\
Plus, Forced sterilization is just inhumane no matter what the crime. Modifying a woman's body is not cool.
timetokill
Banned
Damn. I saw that softball coming but I was hoping he wouldn't swing at it.
You're talking about forced sterilizations only. What about voluntary sterilization where incentives are offered to repeat offenders with multiple kids?
Devolution
Member
Who is taking anything? The only thing being taken are the reproductive organs of people.
This is a fucked precedent. Trading neutering to be released early? This is making me sick.
It really goes to show that in America, your debt to society can NEVER be repaid.
You know you're arguing for human spaying, right?
scar tissue
Banned
Pretty fucked up, I can't believe shit like this happened in the 21st century.
Although I have to admit I'm not exactly sad that some human pieces of shit aren't going to reproduce even more.
Although I have to admit I'm not exactly sad that some human pieces of shit aren't going to reproduce even more.
We shouldn't be incentivizing permanent procedures to anyone. The people that want them will seek them out.
The more sensible, and less barbaric approach, is to just ask people if they want condoms and foam and give them a free supply, no questions asked. Regardless of criminal history.
This is like offering a thief early release if they agree to having their hands chopped off.
Choke on the Magic
Banned
Yes, I'm from California. And I don't have any kids myself, and don't plan on having any, before anyone asks. And I'm vegan.
Lol. I love the I'm a vegan addition as if it's pertinent.
How about we just avoid slippery slope arguments and leave something as permanent as sterilization off the table entirely?
The mere idea that sterilization is even involved scares the living shit out of me honestly.
no way. The crime is done they have to do the time. It's reprehensible on several levels.
speculawyer
Member
They can be a good mom to the kids they already have. If they want another kid then they can adopt.
Prison is permanent too. You don't get that time back.
Most animals take care of their young. If you don't take care of your young, you are worse than an animal.
For as long as I can remember speculawyer has been spouting neo-Malthusian opinions.
e: Though he has moved into a caricature of Bauman's theory of modernity itt.
I hope nothing but the worst for you and anyone you care for.
It wil probably only lead to scenarios that will end up with the prisioner being pressure in everything but name to take the procedure. And the women in the article? They were being coerced, I know because I have seen lots of doctors do it using many arguments that many times the patient cant understand from a position of power, if we can do it now, figure out what happens when the law backs you up.
This pretty much.
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