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[Pop]

That's funny, my doctor performs blood tests and seems to think I'm fine.

Speaking of health, is your avatar meant to honor some 300 pound dude who just died in his early 30s?

Damn, that's fucked up.

After reading all your posts in here, your way of thinking is fucked anyway. Damn dude

 

[Mercury Fred]

The twisted logic in this tread can be easily translated into arguing that people in developed Western countries should just kill themselves because they consume such a disproportionate amount of resources in comparison to the rest of the world. But it always seems to be the poor and minorities who end up being the ones we argue deserve to be punished for the opulence of Western society, never the rich or white.

Also, if you don't know that the drug war is a race war and that most "criminals" are just brown people who used drugs, you just haven't been paying attention. If we imprisoned white people at half the rate we do minorities for drug use, there would be an instant reversal of policies. Smoke a joint, get five years and a felony, lose the right to vote, be permanently discriminated against legally, shamed for life, but if you drive drunk, you just get a fine and misdemeanor.

Well said.

I am all for fewer unwanted children, from inmates or otherwise. People shouldn't be crapping out so many offspring just because they can. And I'd love to see an initiative to lower the number of pregnancies across the U.S. across all classes and races. However, we live in a racist, corporate controlled country so obviously something like this is only going to target the most already disadvantaged. I do fear for the strain we're putting on the planet in the long term.

Also, cheap shots at vegans suck.

 

[Fireblend]

I think xbhaskarx's argument and general ideas have merit, and may even be implemented to some degree at some point (no way in hell reproductive rights will get any weaker though), but this is probably not the place to express those ideas, since this is a pretty good example of how not to implement sterilization - whatever the intention was - since it was made both against their will and without them knowing which I'll agree with everyone in this thread goes against basic human rights.

And the uncalled for cheap shots were really out of place, but to be honest, Bombadil started it. If xbhaskarx's veganism was irrelevant, then you just don't fucking mention it.

 

[xbhaskarx]

UN projections currently have us topping out at 10 billion on the average track, or 8 billion on the optimistic track. It's worth noting that they keep revising their projections down, too. Fertility plummets when modernity arrives. My guess is that before we die people are going to be more worried about underpopulation or depopulation than overpopulation.

Underpopulation will be a problem in some developed countries (Japan, Italy, Russia), in fact it already is. Or rather the problem is not underpopulation but the ratio between working age and non-working age populations. Those countries could either 1. increase immigration from developing countries to add to the working age population (this is preferable imo, basically what the US does), or in extreme cases 2. offer incentives to people to have more kids.

I know people are trying to villainize me as being in favor of forced sterilization, which I oppose. I only mentioned that voluntary sterilization based on incentives may make sense in certain situations, and if a country needed to offer incentives to increase the birth rate, I think that may make sense too.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Crystal Nguyen, a former Valley State Prison inmate who worked in the prison's infirmary during 2007,

What a badass name.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Damn, that's fucked up.

After reading all your posts in here, your way of thinking is fucked anyway. Damn dude

All dat brocolli can't give you a healthy personality.

 

[heliosRAzi]

No, that is not the point of society. I have no problem with helping people who going through hard times through no fault of their own. But I have no desire to help people who are intentionally making the situation worse. We have massive problems as is, we should not allow criminals to run around and create more mouths that they have shown they won't feed.

What is that massive problem?

 

[xbhaskarx]

Well said.

I am all for fewer unwanted children, from inmates or otherwise. People shouldn't be crapping out so many offspring just because they can. And I'd love to see an initiative to lower the number of pregnancies across the U.S. across all classes and races. However, we live in a racist, corporate controlled country so obviously something like this is only going to target most already disadvantaged. I do fear for the strain we're putting on the planet in the long term.

Also, cheap shots at vegans suck.

I think xbhaskarx's argument and general ideas have merit, and may even be implemented to some degree at some point (no way in hell reproductive rights will get any weaker though), but this is probably not the place to express those ideas, since this is a pretty good example of how not to implement sterilization - whatever the intention was - since it was made both against their will and without them knowing which I'll agree with everyone in this thread goes against basic human rights.

And the uncalled for cheap shots were really out of place, but to be honest, Bombadil started it. If xbhaskarx's veganism was irrelevant, then you just don't fucking mention it.

Thank you...

 

[Yagharek]

Given how many US prisons are privatised, and how expensive these operations are, it makes me wonder what quota systems are in place to get more incarcerations and more add on bonuses once people are locked up.

There must be serious money in this business, and it makes the argument that some people are treated like livestock all the more likely.

 

[ronito]

I think xbhaskarx's argument and general ideas have merit, and may even be implemented to some degree at some point (no way in hell reproductive rights will get any weaker though), but this is probably not the place to express those ideas, since this is a pretty good example of how not to implement sterilization - whatever the intention was - since it was made both against their will and without them knowing which I'll agree with everyone in this thread goes against basic human rights.

And the uncalled for cheap shots were really out of place, but to be honest, Bombadil started it. If xbhaskarx's veganism was irrelevant, then you just don't fucking mention it.

Don't mention Veganism! But that dead guy, he's fair game! Cause he's fat! LOL fat!

 

[daviyoung]

Did that guy just call the heavies in to stand up to those big meanies laughing at his dietary choice?

 

[xbhaskarx]

Don't mention Veganism! But that dead guy, he's fair game! Cause he's fat! LOL fat!

Again, he made a personal health-related comment relating to my diet, and my point was that he probably doesn't do that when people who eat meat have health problems, which in real life (heart, cancer, diabetes, etc.) happens far more than "lol sickly looking vegans"...

It was him who brought it up in the first place genious.

I brought it up for reasons that are relevant to this thread. Also, that's not how you spell genius.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Did that guy just call the heavies in to stand up to those big meanies laughing at his dietary choice?

 

[grumble]

Sounds from the article that they didn't know they were doing anything wrong. They were asking women who were at risk for having fucked up kids if they wanted a tubal ligation, and wouldn't do it unless they said yes.

Kind of sketchy but not evil.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Well said.

I am all for fewer unwanted children, from inmates or otherwise. People shouldn't be crapping out so many offspring just because they can. And I'd love to see an initiative to lower the number of pregnancies across the U.S. across all classes and races. However, we live in a racist, corporate controlled country so obviously something like this is only going to target most already disadvantaged. I do fear for the strain we're putting on the planet in the long term.

Also, cheap shots at vegans suck.

One of America's greatest strengths right now is a birth rate that's basically at replacement. Gotta have a sufficient number of younger workers to take care of the older ones (I guess in an ideal world we'd cut down on births and encourage immigration, but that's not exactly on the table).

 

[Appleman]

You're missing the point where we can put someone into an incarcerated state and remove them from it later if we fuck up. It's not a perfect reversal, but it's still reversal as much as feasible.

You can't reverse removing someone's ability to reproduce. Are you fine with chopping a thief's hands off because you don't want them to be able to grab things to steal after you let them out? Would you cut out the tongue of a spy so they can't say any more secrets after they're released? Would you cut off the legs of someone who hit a building with their car so they couldn't drive one again in trade for letting them out 5 months early?

Just because the body part is on the inside of the woman doesn't make it any less barbaric.

Don't we have reversible vasectomies now?

 

[Choke on the Magic]

I think xbhaskarx's argument and general ideas have merit, and may even be implemented to some degree at some point (no way in hell reproductive rights will get any weaker though), but this is probably not the place to express those ideas, since this is a pretty good example of how not to implement sterilization - whatever the intention was - since it was made both against their will and without them knowing which I'll agree with everyone in this thread goes against basic human rights.

And the uncalled for cheap shots were really out of place, but to be honest, Bombadil started it. If xbhaskarx's veganism was irrelevant, then you just don't fucking mention it.

It was him who brought it up in the first place genius.

 

[Transhuman]

Given how many US prisons are privatised, and how expensive these operations are, it makes me wonder what quota systems are in place to get more incarcerations and more add on bonuses once people are locked up.

There must be serious money in this business, and it makes the argument that some people are treated like livestock all the more likely.

If only someone had figured out a way to trade incarcerated juveniles for money.

 

[xbhaskarx]

One of America's greatest strengths right now is a birth rate that's basically at replacement. Gotta have a sufficient number of younger workers to take care of the older ones (I guess in an ideal world we'd cut down on births and encourage immigration, but that's not exactly on the table).

Why not? There's no shortage of working age people looking to move from developing countries to the developed world.

Don't we have reversible vasectomies now?

Yes, vasectomies are reversible, although the odds of pregnancy are not as high as with no vasectomy/reversal.

 

[Yagharek]

If only someone had figured out a way to trade incarcerated juveniles for money.

Holy fuck.

 

[Spongebob]

Unfortunate.

 

[HK-47]

I think xbhaskarx's argument and general ideas have merit, and may even be implemented to some degree at some point (no way in hell reproductive rights will get any weaker though), but this is probably not the place to express those ideas, since this is a pretty good example of how not to implement sterilization - whatever the intention was - since it was made both against their will and without them knowing which I'll agree with everyone in this thread goes against basic human rights.

And the uncalled for cheap shots were really out of place, but to be honest, Bombadil started it. If xbhaskarx's veganism was irrelevant, then you just don't fucking mention it.

Poor baby. He has to defend himself by shitting on someone not even involved the conversation.

 

[Mercury Fred]

It was him who brought it up in the first place genious.

Uh, I hate to be petty, but if you're going to sarcastically call someone a genius, maybe you could at least spell it properly?

 

[scar tissue]

I'm assuming you meant the 'for' party,

People who defend the death penalty, so yeah, I meant the 'for' party.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Uh, I hate to be petty, but if you're going to sarcastically call someone a genius, maybe you could at least spell it properly?

Yeah ironic right. It's okay. It's GAF so I expect petty.

 

[Bombadil]

My comment about veganism was not meant to disrespect.

 

[Winterfang]

This is just wrong. I don't care if they had 8 children.

 

[Camp Lo]

My comment about veganism was not meant to disrespect.

Clearly it wasn't which is why the reaction was so fucking ridiculous.

 

[ronito]

Again, he made a personal health-related comment relating to my diet, and my point was that he probably doesn't do that when people who eat meat have health problems, which in real life (heart, cancer, diabetes, etc.) happens far more than "lol sickly looking vegans"...

Then you should've talked about Bombadil not some dead guy that died a few days ago. I'd insert a joke about Veganism and poor taste but it's too easy.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Again, he made a personal health-related comment relating to my diet, and my point was that he probably doesn't do that when people who eat meat have health problems, which in real life (heart, cancer, diabetes, etc.) happens far more than "lol sickly looking vegans"...



I brought it up for reasons that are relevant to this thread. Also, that's not how you spell genius.

That wasn't clear at first. Once you did explain your reasons I still take issue with any justification of forced sterilization regardless of whether it's sanctioned by the state or not.

 

[MrToughPants]

Welfare system is abused in Manitoba by some Natives who pop out half a dozen FAS children. I wouldn't be against some kind of restriction. Forced sterilization is extreme but some people having children is beyond moral and ethical and shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Welfare system is abused in Manitoba by some Natives who pop out half a dozen FAS children. I wouldn't be against some kind of restriction. Forced sterilization is extreme but some people having children is beyond moral and ethical and shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

Fixing the welfare system seems more appropriate than fixing the people. This whole thing is completely dystopian.

 

[heliosRAzi]

How prevalent is the problem of convicts having children for the welfare? How much of a drain is it on the system? Are these people leading lavish lifestyles and using the money to buy new cars and expensive houses?

 

[xbhaskarx]

Once you did explain your reasons I still take issue with any justification of forced sterilization regardless of whether it's sanctioned by the state or not.

I am not supporting forced sterilization. I just want to repeat that for the fifth time: I oppose forced sterilization.

 

[Bombadil]

A friend of mine who is very fucking intelligent and successful in engineering (at Harvard for PHd at 23, worked for Google, NASA, and military) was born via in vitro fertilization from a sperm donor who happens to be a crazy smart math professor at Stanford.

And my friend recently found more hakf siblings who came from the same guy and they are all very smart and successful.

Maybe we should encourage more of these smart, successful people to donate their sperm or eggs.

 

[No Love]

This is sick. Do this to women inmates? Wow. Umm, if we're going to sterilize people, I'm pretty sure there's a much bigger list of MALE inmates that could use a good state-paid sterilization. Let's start sterilizing rapists before we sterilize women, thanks.

Christ I hate my fucking state sometimes.

If only someone had figured out a way to trade incarcerated juveniles for money.

I read about this when it was first exposed. Still makes me sick.

 

[Bombadil]

This is sick. Do this to women inmates? Wow. Umm, if we're going to sterilize people, I'm pretty sure there's a much bigger list of MALE inmates that could use a good state-paid sterilization. Let's start sterilizing rapists before we sterilize women, thanks.

Christ I hate my fucking state sometimes.

Whoa. That's misandrist, bro.

 

[JDSN]

This is sick. Do this to women inmates? Wow. Umm, if we're going to sterilize people, I'm pretty sure there's a much bigger list of MALE inmates that could use a good state-paid sterilization. Let's start sterilizing rapists before we sterilize women, thanks.

Christ I hate my fucking state sometimes.



I read about this when it was first exposed. Still makes me sick.

Why do you hate it? You are condoning their actions, or are you implying there are no female rapists?

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are people calling these forced sterilizations? They were done with consent.

 

[Devolution]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are people calling these forced sterilizations? They were done with consent.

Consent in this particular case is pretty murky. The forced part came up when the Mathusian crap did.

 

[crozier]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are people calling these forced sterilizations? They were done with consent.

Yeah, I'm not really seeing it either.

More people, prisoners or otherwise, should be offered these services the day they turn 18. It would be a different story if they had randomly woken up without a uterus or something, but it sounds like they clearly signed off on the procedure but have regrets.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are people calling these forced sterilizations? They were done with consent.

Yeah, I'm not really seeing it either.

More people, prisoners or otherwise, should be offered these services the day they turn 18. It would be a different story if they had randomly woken up without a uterus or something, but it sounds like they clearly signed off on the procedure but have regrets.

They were pressured into it.

 

[JDSN]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are people calling these forced sterilizations? They were done with consent.

They were coerced by someone from a position of power, when an MD is suggesting contraception we are meant to present all choices and show their pros and cons with no bias or imposing repetitive pressure. It doesn't matter if she caved in the end and signed a paper, its still ethically wrong,

 

[Ashes]

Speculawyer dehumanising people again?

Or playing devil's advocate?

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Yea "forced" reads like they put birth control in the water or knocked them out to wakeup to some pain and wondering what the hell happened. This is more vocal pressure.

If they were doing it to habitual inhabitants at the prisons, meaning they were repeat offenders and had previously been shown to be irresonsible handling their children then under those three criteria, honestly dont care if someone SUGGESTED it to them. Or even said DO THIS.

You cant care for your children in jail and you cant make money to buy them things so that has to be passed off onto somebody else and thats not fair. Especially if they intend to make it worse by having more children.

 

[crozier]

They were pressured into it.

They were sold on the idea, which is a bit different than pressure which (to me) implies unwanted advances.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I don't think prisoners are really in the position to weigh decisions such as these with any real measure of objectivity. It's like defending payday loans for poor people.

More people, prisoners or otherwise, should be offered these services the day they turn 18. It would be a different story if they had randomly woken up without a uterus or something, but it sounds like they clearly signed off on the procedure but have regrets.

This is a pretty terrible idea.

 

[grumble]

Yeah, I'm not really seeing it either.

More people, prisoners or otherwise, should be offered these services the day they turn 18. It would be a different story if they had randomly woken up without a uterus or something, but it sounds like they clearly signed off on the procedure but have regrets.

Bad idea, as your attitudes at 18 are ever changing and sterilization is not

 

[crozier]

Bad idea, as your attitudes at 18 are ever changing and sterilization is not

Better than having a kid at 18, IMO.

It should be available for people who want to be reckless with their reproductive health, which is a lot of people.

 

[Ashes]

Better than having a kid at 18, IMO.

How do you justify that ethically?