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[Tenebrous]

It's on society as a whole, it's not a "gaming problem". There isn't anything inherent to "gamers" that makes them more likely to sexually abuse or molest someone. It's around in every aspect of society. And the way to "root" it out is just what happened in this situation. Speak up and make the perpetrator face real consequences.

Fingers crossed. Shouldn't play again, in my opinion.

 

[lightskintwin]

It's on society as a whole, it's not a "gaming problem". There isn't anything inherent to "gamers" that makes them more likely to sexually abuse or molest someone. It's around in every aspect of society. And the way to "root" it out is just what happened in this situation. Speak up and make the perpetrator face real consequences.

Pretty much.

 

[Tal]

The response has actually been pretty appropriate, I feel. Sponsorship dropped and banned from tournaments.

 

[Castef]

I think you want to make geek culture the scapegoat when this is an overarching problem in general.

Exactly. Something like this could have happened at a sommelier convention, a sport event or during a school trip. Don't blame the even per-se, blame people. It is always people.

 

[Mendrox]

So bloody what? This is happening in geek culture. This stuff happens at conventions and tournaments every year and no one even thinks about it until it happens. Then people within the community defend it.

Category: People do things like this everywhere.
Sub-Category: It happens in geek culture often.

Maybe make the events alcohol-free. Maybe enforce limits to how many people can be in a room. Do something. Don't just deflect it onto a societal issue.

As you said yourself it happens everywhere. Doesn't matter if it's card tournaments, conventions about books or anything else, but this is a general problem and not a fucking general geek problem. It is everywhere and of course there are defenders for that shit too, because that guy surely has friends that try to protect his ass (which won't help).

Just don't make this a thing for geek culture only.

 

[dity]

Its not exclusive to geek culture. See the way you are writing, is as if the culture of "geek" is somehow responsible. Such inane, inflammatory accusations(being geek is literally irrelevant when it happens everywhere, that is what is being told to you) comes off as accusatory. Yes, we get it, you might get off on blaming it on geek culture(to reiterate, when it comes to sexual harassment, which happens everywhere, meaning whether or not someone is a geek is irrelevant), but you're fighting a losing battle of accusations here.

As for what you said, yes there are consequences. Its called the Law. The way you make it sound you have never heard of laws against sexual harassment.(there will be consequences? Like bruh, did you read that they filed a police report?)

Inflammatory posts like yours are a trite annoying.

This happens in culture period. This happens far more often at frat parties, college campuses, bars, night clubs, sporting events, ect...far more often than gaming conventions or fighting tournaments. It's not isolated to any one kind of sub-culture, and doing so does nothing to help root it out.

Where did I say it excuses anyone? You're arguing against someone else here...

All I see here is people deflecting the issue onto society when this shit keeps happening at conventions and tournaments related to this community.

You people have somehow got in your head that I'm blaming geek culture alone. You're wrong on that. I'm aware it happens in other places. But the point is is that it's happening here, at places like Evo. And part of the community is evidently enabling it. And when this all dies down, no one will bat an eye at this stuff or be wary until the next one happens at another convention. Deflecting this into being a societal issue basically communicates to me that you three don't care to address it happening within the community. "There's always bad apples" is one thing if everyone is wary of the issue and actively working against it, trying to squash it and prevent, but it's another thing when part of - like basically half the people responding to this on twitter - are enabling the guilty person and claiming they did nothing wrong and are harmless and whatnot. That's a problem with geek culture and the geek community, not society.

You can get the police involved after the fact, you can punish the people who do wrong, but if the community isn't looked out for each other and thinks we should sympathise with the guilty party or be all like "but they were a nice guy!" then we've failed as a community. Half the community not looking out and being wary is half the community enabling this behaviour. I'm repeating myself now, but that's a problem with geek culture and the geek community.

 

[oni-link]

I can't wrap my head around those who defend him based on him being drunk

Firstly, its your responsibility to not get too drunk, as being too drunk can cause you to injure yourself, and secondly, I've been drunk before and I'd never ever do anything I'd consider to go against my own moral code, and the 2 or 3 times I've ever been too drunk to remember things, I was in no fit state to even do simple things like walk or talk

People who do things like this when drunk know what they're doing, and they do so knowing they'll use being drunk as an excuse if blows up in their face

If this is how you act with and around other people, drunk or not, you're a shitty human being

 

[pinkurocket]

Yeah being drunk is no excuse. If you can't controls your behaviour when drunk then don't drink. If you don't even know how you act when drunk, then don't drink at such an event surrounded by people you don't know. Experiment with drinking at home with friends who can keep you in check. He should've known better than to get to that point. I hope he gets help.

 

[Faustek]

We obviously know we can't root it out of society as a whole, but surely the gaming community can try to root it out of itself? Not saying it isn't already trying, but there's always more that can be done, right?

Yes we can always do more.

Her sharing her story is a good bad example. It already happened to her but it might help stop the next.
For anything concrete I have no clue, we already have education, we have laws, we get taught since early age what's right and wrong. This process of learning continues through life, hopefully.
Still no clue though, use the tools at our disposal more frequently? Create new tools that fit to every demographic? Blame it on bad parenting? Temporary chemical castration in alcohol?
I hate this, we have everything we actually need to stop this, we use them daily and still it'll happen as sure as we will die one day.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

......This isn't even an excuse at all. I'm glad this idiot now has no sponsor. Shite like this should never get a free pass.

 

[lightskintwin]

I can't wrap my head around those who defend him based on him being drunk

Firstly, its your responsibility to not get too drunk, as being too drunk can cause you to injure yourself, and secondly, I've been drunk before and I'd never ever do anything I'd consider to go against my own moral code, and the 2 or 3 times I've ever been too drunk to remember things, I was in no fit state to even do simple things like walk or talk

People who do things like this when drunk know what they're doing, and they do so knowing they'll use being drunk as an excuse if blows up in their face

If this is how you act with and around other people, drunk or not, you're a shitty human being

The bolded part isn't necessarily true all the time.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

All I see here is people deflecting the issue onto society when this shit keeps happening at conventions and tournaments related to this community.

You people have somehow got in your head that I'm blaming geek culture alone. You're wrong on that. I'm aware it happens in other places. But the point is is that it's happening here, at places like Evo. And part of the community is evidently enabling it. And when this all dies down, no one will bat an eye at this stuff or be wary until the next one happens at another convention. Deflecting this into being a societal issue basically communicates to me that you three don't care to address it happening within the community. "There's always bad apples" is one thing if everyone is wary of the issue and actively working against it, trying to squash it and prevent, but it's another thing when part of - like basically half the people responding to this on twitter - are enabling the guilty person and claiming they did nothing wrong and are harmless and whatnot. That's a problem with geek culture and the geek community, not society.

You can get the police involved after the fact, you can punish the people who do wrong, but if the community isn't looked out for each other and thinks we should sympathise with the guilty party or be all like "but they were a nice guy!" then we've failed as a community. Half the community not looking out and being wary is half the community enabling this behaviour. I'm repeating myself now, but that's a problem with geek culture and the geek community.

It keeps happening EVERYWHERE. You probably couldn't name more than 2-3 times this has happened at "gaming events" whereas you could probably name dozens and dozens of times where it's happened in all other parts of society. You are the one deflecting from teh greater issue and trying to ignorantly pencil this a "geek community" issue. Are fratboys part of geek culture? Are college athletes part of geek culture? Are college co-eds a part of geek culture? Are people who attend music festivals a part of geek culture? Because I guarandamntee that sexual assaults occur far more in those environments than they do at gaming tournaments or conventions. And in those environments there is also a segment that tries to shift the blame away (google the recent Baylor football team scandal if you want to see something about 100X more egregious than what's happened at EVO or CEO) from the person who committed the act. It's no different. There isn't anything that the gaming community needs to do, anymore than the community as a whole needs to do, which is to call this behavior out when they see it, whether it's at EVO, or a college party, or a bar, or wherever.

 

[Moff]

All I see here is people deflecting the issue onto society when this shit keeps happening at conventions and tournaments related to this community.

You people have somehow got in your head that I'm blaming geek culture alone. You're wrong on that. I'm aware it happens in other places. But the point is is that it's happening here, at places like Evo. And part of the community is evidently enabling it. And when this all dies down, no one will bat an eye at this stuff or be wary until the next one happens at another convention. Deflecting this into being a societal issue basically communicates to me that you three don't care to address it happening within the community. "There's always bad apples" is one thing if everyone is wary of the issue and actively working against it, trying to squash it and prevent, but it's another thing when part of - like basically half the people responding to this on twitter - are enabling the guilty person and claiming they did nothing wrong and are harmless and whatnot. That's a problem with geek culture and the geek community, not society.

You can get the police involved after the fact, you can punish the people who do wrong, but if the community isn't looked out for each other and thinks we should sympathise with the guilty party or be all like "but they were a nice guy!" then we've failed as a community. Half the community not looking out and being wary is half the community enabling this behaviour. I'm repeating myself now, but that's a problem with geek culture and the geek community.

I am not deflecting, I just had the impression a few users here thought that this a problem limited to geek culture because geeks and nerds can't handle women.
And limiting the problem to that will hardly solve it because it's clearly not a geek-only problem.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Also worth pointing out that his sponsor already dropped him.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sotikd

Good. Hope they ban this person forever.

 

[xzeldax3]

Like others are saying, being drunk isn't an excuse.

 

[bj00rn_]

I think this guy said it the best:

https://youtu.be/sxnziRvK-Ig

Alcohol can be a reason, but it's just not a valid excuse. We are all responsible to try to understand ourselves and how we react to certain things. We can be the best human being while sober, but that still doesn't excuse us if we do something bad while drunk.

With that said, if we do something bad, we have to own up to it, take the punishment and learn from it all. Also, everyone else should also not be too dismissive, rather help the guy to understand what happened, help him understand that if this what alcohol does to him (or anyone else) then he cannot get drunk ever again, simple as that.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I hope this is OK to say, but how did he manage to leave that room without a severe ass kicking? I think in this situation it would been completely justified. The men in that room did an absolutely awful job of protecting their friend. The fact that he was allowed to stay in the room after the first act is mind-boggling.

 

[Aarglefarg]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DJArcatek/status/754806059307458560

Oh boy...

'Oh boy' what? It's not clear what you mean. Like, that the boyfriend was drunk and couldn't wake up from it, does 'oh boy' mean he's at fault or...?

 

[Pakoe]

Alcohol can bring out the worse in people, but it's not an excuse at all. If you can't handle your liquor, you shouldn't be drinking at all.
Hope he gets what he deserves.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

All I see here is people deflecting the issue onto society when this shit keeps happening at conventions and tournaments related to this community.

You people have somehow got in your head that I'm blaming geek culture alone. You're wrong on that. I'm aware it happens in other places. But the point is is that it's happening here, at places like Evo. And part of the community is evidently enabling it. And when this all dies down, no one will bat an eye at this stuff or be wary until the next one happens at another convention. Deflecting this into being a societal issue basically communicates to me that you three don't care to address it happening within the community. "There's always bad apples" is one thing if everyone is wary of the issue and actively working against it, trying to squash it and prevent, but it's another thing when part of - like basically half the people responding to this on twitter - are enabling the guilty person and claiming they did nothing wrong and are harmless and whatnot. That's a problem with geek culture and the geek community, not society.

You can get the police involved after the fact, you can punish the people who do wrong, but if the community isn't looked out for each other and thinks we should sympathise with the guilty party or be all like "but they were a nice guy!" then we've failed as a community. Half the community not looking out and being wary is half the community enabling this behaviour. I'm repeating myself now, but that's a problem with geek culture and the geek community.

Did you miss the "consequences" he faced from the Evo community?

Did you miss the "consequences" he faced from the police report?

Oh thats right. Its clear you're scapegoating. What, is that one tweet from an asshole your defense that its geek cultures fault?

Nah. You want to play? Lets play, gloves off. Its not a geek problem. Its a problem of masculinity and how these types of events are a convergence of masculinity. Its happened before. In sports. In the military. In Hollywood. You want to get to the nitty gritty of it or do you want to keep scapegoating it as a geek culture problem? Nah bro, its a masculinity problem, and an event that draws mainly males who are used to being aggressive with each other will no doubt spawn situations like this one.

Dont scapegoat, dear dity, call it for what it is: an issue spawned from a masculine centered event. What type of "culture" it is is irrelevant. Dont play the fool and think theres a higher chance of this happening just because "Geeks" are involved. Come now, you want to play, lets play.

 

[Blablurn]

Shameful

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

I hope this is OK to say, but how did he manage to leave that room without a severe ass kicking? I think in this situation it would been completely justified. The men in that room did an absolutely awful job of protecting their friend.

Haha don't worry I was thinking the same thing. This guy could have gotten a beat down in the heat of the moment.

 

[oni-link]

The bolded part isn't necessarily true all the time.

I can only go on my experiences of being drunk, and I've always known what I'm doing when I've been drunk, or I've known I've been incapable of doing anything as I can barely walk

I'm not a big drinker though, and I've only really had "too much" to drink 2 or 3 times in my life

Even if someone can legitimately not know they're actively pursuing someone around a room trying to abuse them, which is a point I have a hard time believing, then it would be that persons responsibility to not drink or get that drunk

Either way they're a shitty person, for doing it anyway or for letting themselves get into a state where they do it

 

[SoldnerKei]

This makes me so mad at so many levels, I just can't... the "but if you call the police I will never play in US again" is what gets me more, like, it's really only the thing you care about after fucking it up?? I can't believe it... good thing he got dropped and banned, hopefully happens the same here in Mexico.

 

[Necromanti]

This makes me so mad at so many levels, I just can't... the "but if you call the police I will never play in US again" is what gets me more, like, it's really only the thing you care about after fucking it up??

:c

 

[Marvel]

Very good.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Even if we operate on the idea that he validly was not aware of his actions, he chose to make himself too impaired. Being drunk isn't an excuse to assault someone.

 

[dity]

It keeps happening EVERYWHERE. You probably couldn't name more than 2-3 times this has happened at "gaming events" whereas you could probably name dozens and dozens of times where it's happened in all other parts of society. You are the one deflecting from teh greater issue and trying to ignorantly pencil this a "geek community" issue. Are fratboys part of geek culture? Are college athletes part of geek culture? Are college co-eds a part of geek culture? Are people who attend music festivals a part of geek culture? Because I guarandamntee that sexual assaults occur far more in those environments than they do at gaming tournaments or conventions. And in those environments there is also a segment that tries to shift the blame away (google the recent Baylor football team scandal if you want to see something about 100X more egregious than what's happened at EVO or CEO) from the person who committed the act. It's no different. There isn't anything that the gaming community needs to do, anymore than the community as a whole needs to do, which is to call this behavior out when they see it, whether it's at EVO, or a college party, or a bar, or wherever.

Stop the stupid whataboutism. This isn't about frat parties or night clubs or music festivals. Heck, you're peddling both a "it happens everywhere" and "the gaming community is a lesser evil" argument here. How about at least admitting that assaults happen more in those environments because those events are much more often. I bet if gaming conventions were scaled down to a night club size and happening every night or weekend incidents like this would be occuring a lot more often.

The gaming/geek community can absolutely be doing more. I mean, you mention how I probably couldn't mention more than 2-3 incidents like this occuring, but that's only reported incidents. What about the unreported incidents, the people scared to speak up? The people who are too nervous to call the police? Yes, this happens in all of society, but the reasons for not speaking up is fear of backlash within their community. Like how the entertainment industry is now more accepting of victims speaking up, and victims are getting more confident in not getting backlash and trying to get justice. That could happen in the gaming community too. We could be doing more to make those people comfortable.

 

[RedRum]

I hope this is OK to say, but how did he manage to leave that room without a severe ass kicking? I think in this situation it would been completely justified. The men in that room did an absolutely awful job of protecting their friend. The fact that he was allowed to stay in the room after the first act is mind-boggling.

I mentioned this earlier. If I was her BF, or even anyone else in that room, I would have been hard-pressed to control my anger.

 

[lightskintwin]

I can only go on my experiences of being drunk, and I've always known what I'm doing when I've been drunk, or I've known I've been incapable of doing anything as I can barely walk

I'm not a big drinker though, and I've only really had "too much" to drink 2 or 3 times in my life

Even if someone can legitimately not know they're actively perusing someone around a room trying to abuse them, which is a point I have a hard time believing, then it would be that persons responsibility to not drink or get that drunk

Either way they're a shitty person, for doing it anyway or for letting themselves get into a state where they do it

It's definitely their responsibility, everybody agrees on that. Alcohol isn't an excuse but after the inconclusive studies I've read and the known link between alcohol and sexual assault, I can't rule it out as a factor amongst various other factors.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I'll absolutely say that not specifically targeting the industry and its users for behavior like this is inevitably going to see recurrence, whereas treating it as an industry problem will allow us to solve it in an individual fashion. Sexual assault/rape in certain areas need to be uniquely addressed and destroyed (even though an umbrella solution could help, it can't be the focus - we need to stamp this out ourselves too).

 

[Ayumi]

What a fucking scumbag. I'm glad she seems like she's doing okay, and I'm proud of her for going public with it.

People can be very unpredictable and scary.

 

[dity]

Did you miss the "consequences" he faced from the Evo community?

Did you miss the "consequences" he faced from the police report?

Oh thats right. Its clear you're scapegoating. What, is that one tweet from an asshole your defense that its geek cultures fault?

Nah. You want to play? Lets play, gloves off. Its not a geek problem. Its a problem of masculinity and how these types of events are a convergence of masculinity. Its happened before. In sports. In the military. In Hollywood. You want to get to the nitty gritty of it or do you want to keep scapegoating it as a geek culture problem? Nah bro, its a masculinity problem, and an event that draws mainly males who are used to being aggressive with each other will no doubt spawn situations like this one.

Dont scapegoat, dear dity, call it for what it is: an issue spawned from a masculine centered event. What type of "culture" it is is irrelevant. Dont play the fool and think theres a higher chance of this happening just because "Geeks" are involved. Come now, you want to play, lets play.

Ok man, let's play. Gloves off. This is happening.

If geek culture is mostly masculine, which it generally is, then they're one in the same. Geek culture having a toxic masculinity problem is still a geek culture problem. If geek culture does indeed have a masculinity problem, and geeks at these events are mostly men, then doesn't that mean there is a higher chance of stuff like this happening at events just because geeks are involved? A high concentration of geeks equates to a high concentration of toxic masculinity, just like at sporting events and whatnot.

Why is this still a problem when there are lots of women who also play games and consume these media too?

 

[RS4-]

Fucking disgusting. Fuck alcohol.

Should be charged.

Good on her for not being silent, but it's unfortunate she had to experience that. Christ.

 

[Ferr986]

I can only go on my experiences of being drunk, and I've always known what I'm doing when I've been drunk, or I've known I've been incapable of doing anything as I can barely walk

I'm not a big drinker though, and I've only really had "too much" to drink 2 or 3 times in my life

Even if someone can legitimately not know they're actively pursuing someone around a room trying to abuse them, which is a point I have a hard time believing, then it would be that persons responsibility to not drink or get that drunk

Either way they're a shitty person, for doing it anyway or for letting themselves get into a state where they do it

I've been drunk till passing out so many times and I never had in my mind molesting anyone. Honestly, sometimes being drunk just pushes us to do some things we would like to do, so IMO this guy have more problems in his head that just "being drunk"

 

[nephilimdj]

What a horrible situation, hope she is okay outside of public comments and he is banned from FGC for life.

Really poor moderation on /r/smash/, upset that they lost a top level toon link :/

 

[Niwa]

The moment he followed her into the next bed was the moment when he ruined his fucking life, how the fuck is he even getting support from other people. Good at heart all he wants that guy deserves no better. He decided to drink alcohol so its his fault.

How the hell did the boyfriend of her not notice this? He was right between them, what the hell. I hope she recovers from this… Fucked up man.

 

[lightskintwin]

The moment he followed her into the next bed was the moment when he ruined his fucking life, how the fuck is he even getting support from other people. Good at heart all he wants that guy deserves no better. He decided to drink alcohol so its his fault.

How the hell did the boyfriend of her not notice this? He was right between them, what the hell. I hope she recovers from this… Fucked up man.

Boyfriend was drunk asleep.

 

[Theanine3D]

I've been drunk till passing out so many times and I never had in my mind molesting anyone. Honestly, sometimes being drunk just pushes us to do some things we would like to do, so IMO this guy have more problems in his head that just "being drunk"

This is why I think calling his problem a "drinking problem" is being too generous to him.

Plenty of people are alcoholics or drink too much. But only some of them molest people.

Alcohol is not the culprit here. His problem is much much worse than just a "drinking problem."

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Ok man, let's play. Gloves off. This is happening.

If geek culture is mostly masculine, which it generally is, then they're one in the same. Geek culture having a toxic masculinity problem is still a geek culture problem. If geek culture does indeed have a masculinity problem, and geeks at these events are mostly men, then doesn't that mean there is a higher chance of stuff like this happening at events just because geeks are involved? A high concentration of geeks equates to a high concentration of toxic masculinity, just like at sporting events and whatnot.

Why is this still a problem when there are lots of women who also play games and consume these media too?

Except you have it wrong.

Its the opposite, actually. Let me draw it clearly for you. Imagine Toxic Masculinity as a tree. And on this tree, are various branches. For this visual picture, let us say this tree has branches representing sports, military, entertainment, and as a subset of entertainment the "Geek" culture rigidly attached to that branch.

Now you, you propose we work to solve the issue of harassment, such as this, from the geek culture. So we cut off the branch. Hope it grows back right.

But it wont. Itll grow back the same. So we cut it off again, and still this toxic part of the geek culture keeps growing back. So you, in your infinite wisdom, proclaim "It is the Geeks branch which is defective. We must keep cutting it and forcing it to adhere to a how the healthy branches are."

That wont work. To summarize, you are not looking at the root at the problem. You are looking at a mere scab, and proclaiming that once we cure it, it will never grow back. No, that is merely a scapegoat to the larger problem.

You are merely looking at a page, and not the whole book that binds it. You are looking at a frame, and not the whole house that keeps it. And you proclaim that it is that frames fault and that we must fix it and only it, and that anything else is deflecting the problem of the frame, when it is in fact the house that is falling apart.

Now, my dear dity, if you so not understand what I am trying to convey to you, than alas I must submit that not everyone can understand complex issues, and that I must leave you painting one plank of the whole fence, as you try to blame the plank for not fitting in with the rest of the fence.

 

[Otakumegane]

You know I always imagined toxic masculinity as a part of sports and geek culture etc. Not a root of it. This analogy is flawed in more than one way and your use of rhetoric/tone doesn't exactly help drive the point. You must be very proud of yourself.

The problem with this is disgustingly similar to why people are mad about police culture, but the sponsors and other enforcers have the tact to see this injustice punished.

 

[Sandfox]

Stop the stupid whataboutism. This isn't about frat parties or night clubs or music festivals. Heck, you're peddling both a "it happens everywhere" and "the gaming community is a lesser evil" argument here. How about at least admitting that assaults happen more in those environments because those events are much more often. I bet if gaming conventions were scaled down to a night club size and happening every night or weekend incidents like this would be occuring a lot more often.

The gaming/geek community can absolutely be doing more. I mean, you mention how I probably couldn't mention more than 2-3 incidents like this occuring, but that's only reported incidents. What about the unreported incidents, the people scared to speak up? The people who are too nervous to call the police? Yes, this happens in all of society, but the reasons for not speaking up is fear of backlash within their community. Like how the entertainment industry is now more accepting of victims speaking up, and victims are getting more confident in not getting backlash and trying to get justice. That could happen in the gaming community too. We could be doing more to make those people comfortable.

You're making a lot of claims without offering data or suggesting solutions lol. The guy is and will probably continue to be punished and you're basically complaining about the words of random people on twitter. You also seems to be stereotyping geek culture based on your other posts.

Smaller gaming events do in fact occur on a weekly basis so I don't really see what your getting at there.

 

[dity]

Except you have it wrong.

Its the opposite, actually. Let me draw it clearly for you. Imagine Toxic Masculinity as a tree. And on this tree, are various branches. For this visual picture, let us say this tree has branches representing sports, military, entertainment, and as a subset of entertainment the "Geek" culture rigidly attached to that branch.

Now you, you propose we work to solve the issue of harassment, such as this, from the geek culture. So we cut off the branch. Hope it grows back right.

But it wont. Itll grow back the same. So we cut it off again, and still this toxic part of the geek culture keeps growing back. So you, in your infinite wisdom, proclaim "It is the Geeks branch which is defective. We must keep cutting it and forcing it to adhere to a how the healthy branches are."

That wont work. To summarize, you are not looking at the root at the problem. You are looking at a mere scab, and proclaiming that once we cure it, it will never grow back. No, that is merely a scapegoat to the larger problem.

You are merely looking at a page, and not the whole book that binds it. You are looking at a frame, and not the whole house that keeps it. And you proclaim that it is that frames fault and that we must fix it and only it, and that anything else is deflecting the problem of the frame, when it is in fact the house that is falling apart.

Now, my dear dity, if you so not understand what I am trying to convey to you, than alas I must submit that not everyone can understand complex issues, and that I must leave you painting one plank of the whole fence, as you try to blame the plank for not fitting in with the rest of the fence.

Ah, but has one BreezyLimbo not once been a gardener before? A tree left to its own devices is a tree that grows out of control. Say we as the geek community gardener can only reach our own branch, so we choose to trim it as best as we can. It may start to grow back, but as gardeners it's our responsibility to keep it in check as that tree juts onto our property and makes our backyard seem unkempt if we don't properly manage it.

While we'd like to see the tree removed, lobbying to our local council to have it removed will take a very long time. Until then, we can only really trim that branch and express to our neighbours and council that the tree itself is a bother and needs to be sorted out.

I understand what you are conveying, but all I see is a lazy gardener. We can only do what we can do, solutions that are closer to home and achievable are there between us and solving the root of the problem. Similar to how you must cut down the tree before you pull out the stump, you must first cut the branches before you can even think about cutting down the tree.

Trees.

 

[Klyka]

I am happy to see that the proper steps were taken against the guy and we don't have some controversial situation where he might be punished or maybe not or maybe yes.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You know I always imagined toxic masculinity as a part of sports and geek culture etc. Not a root of it. This analogy is flawed in more than one way and your use of rhetoric/tone doesn't exactly help drive the point.

A usage of many analogies and metaphors to drive the point home. Toxic Masculinity has been a problem for hundreds of years, and its not exclusive to either sports or geek culture etc. To say otherwise is to scapegoat the issue at hand. As for the tonr, I agree its a bit flamboyant, but when many people are trying to explain to dity that his scapegoating it as a geek issue, than a certain firmness is required.

Ah, but has one BreezyLimbo not once been a gardener before? A tree left to its own devices is a tree that grows out of control. Say we as the geek community gardener can only reach our own branch, so we choose to trim it as best as we can. It may start to grow back, but as gardeners it's our responsibility to keep it in check as that tree juts onto our property and makes our backyard seem unkempt if we don't properly manage it.

While we'd like to see the tree removed, lobbying to our local council to have it removed will take a very long time. Until then, we can only really trim that branch and express to our neighbours and council that the tree itself is a bother and needs to be sorted out.

I understand what you are conveying, but all I see is a lazy gardener. We can only do what we can do, solutions that are closer to home and achievable are there between us and solving the root of the problem. Similar to how you must cut down the tree before you pull out the stump, you must first cut the branches before you can even think about cutting down the tree.

Trees.

You think yourself a gardener, but you have no power. You are simply the neighbor across the street yelling at the gardener to tend to his lawn. As such you scream and you scream, and you fail to notice the orchard of trees extending across the land. You fail to notice that these trees have no gardeners. You may cut down a tree, but by the time you do you realize the forest has enveloped you. And by the time you cut down one tree, the forest has already shed its pollen which has been blown by the wind to affect lands far away from you. And those trees will soon spread their seed. You were too focused on the branch, that you missed the forest.

 

[oni-link]

I've been drunk till passing out so many times and I never had in my mind molesting anyone. Honestly, sometimes being drunk just pushes us to do some things we would like to do, so IMO this guy have more problems in his head that just "being drunk"

This is why I'm uncomfortable with the "he was drunk" excuse

 

[TheSpoiler]

At some level, we can absolutely look at how security is, how the culture treats women, and the ramifications of the players and people when they do this shit. Thankfully, at least retribution is in sight. Honestly, ten years ago, I don't know if the scene would have cared about this kind of shit, and now the response is to rightfully push that shit out.

But gaming culture isn't the cause. It's the result of the terrible parts of society seeping into a huge hobby. The reason why it's important to set it in that framework is so we don't go off track with discussions like this. You can deal with a problem much better when you target the right issues.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

Ok man, let's play. Gloves off. This is happening.

If geek culture is mostly masculine, which it generally is, then they're one in the same. Geek culture having a toxic masculinity problem is still a geek culture problem. If geek culture does indeed have a masculinity problem, and geeks at these events are mostly men, then doesn't that mean there is a higher chance of stuff like this happening at events just because geeks are involved? A high concentration of geeks equates to a high concentration of toxic masculinity, just like at sporting events and whatnot.

Why is this still a problem when there are lots of women who also play games and consume these media too?

This issue is one that is deeply ingrained in the human condition in general. Those at these conventions what are they first, geeks or people? There's more chance of these sorts of things happening because there's a higher concentration of males, them being mostly geeks is entirely arbitrary.

 

[dity]

You're making a lot of claims without offering data or suggesting solutions lol. The guy is and will probably continue to be punished and you're basically complaining about the words of random people on twitter. You also seems to be stereotyping geek culture based on your other posts.

Smaller gaming events do in fact occur on a weekly basis so I don't really see what your getting at there.

Simply pointing at society and toxic masulinity as a whole is also not a solution or data either.

What data do I need? The fact that it even happens is disgusting. There's no threshold of acceptability. No "only 3 people have done it this year and been publicly report, that's ok I guess".

And I have suggested solutions. Limit alcohol, or just not allow it. Be more restrictive on how many people can be in a room. Maybe not hold late night panels focused on perverse content at supposedly all-ages conventions so as to not attract people who might be gross.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Simply pointing at society and toxic masulinity as a whole is also not a solution or data either.

What data do I need? The fact that it even happens is disgusting. There's no threshold of acceptability. No "only 3 people have done it this year and been publicly report, that's ok I guess".

And I have suggested solutions. Limit alcohol, or just not allow it. Be more restrictive on how many people can be in a room. Maybe not hold late night panels focused on perverse content at supposedly all-ages conventions so as to not attract people who might be gross.

You think limiting alcohol will prevent this? Just like Hyuga used alcohol for his scapegoat, so are you.